It appears that the previous owner at some point tried to drive the Coach a short distance with the left rear suspension down. This is the damage above the LR tire -- that tomorrow I'm tackling with some fiberglass mat and cloth. The other side has only some light scuffing.
All the more reason I've decided to have eight of those square tubing chassis stops with U-bolts made-up and fitted before I'm even driving this thing anywhere ^.^d
Sadly, that little scuff is not uncommon. As long as it doesn't go all of the way through allowing road spray to get in, it really doesn't hurt anything but since you can see the blue foam speeking through, I must agree with the fiberglass repair. Make sure you use a resin that will not melt the foam, epoxy if you can. Be careful with polyester resin. Test a small area first.
It may not have been driving with low air but if the road is rough and off kilter you can catch the Fiberglass with the tire at speed. This is up until 2002 when they raised the coach 2 inches to prevent it.
Mine had that happen and the PO put a 12 sq piece of fiblreglass panel over the hole and a few very fine screws to hold in place after covering area with a caulking. I agree that the chassis stops are the culprit and I will be cutting some heavy tubing pieces about 1" long to go over (but not add to their height) those little pads that are welded on now. I will just hold them on with a stainless clamp as I do not want to weld.
John
Conveyer belt material (like used for the rear mudflap) will be my choice. Farm/tractor stores may carry it.
Maybe a good selling point for the FSD shocks to help prevent the quick contact ? Would not do a thing for a twisting situation. Surely additional height stop would be the answer and lots cheaper than 8 FSD shocks.
Of course you could install smaller tires, with the trend of trying to use larger tires just adds to the issue. :o
FWIW
Dave M
With the automatic level system our coach lowers to the point where the tires are occasionally resting against the bottom of the coach. This has left depressions in the skin at every tire location. There is a spacer installed to limit the amount the coach can lower. Has anyone increased the height of the spacer to prevent the tire to coach contact?
Many have raised the existing tabs or buttons..
The question is how much to elevate the existing tabs. Too much and you may bottom out unnecessarily, going down the road. Not enough and uneven ground will still cause the tires to contact after leveling.
One of the options is slicing 3/8" thick (or whatever you desire) wafers out of round bar stock, equal in diameter to your existing buttons. Clean the mating surfaces well with alcohol, butter the mating surfaces with any good metal to metal glue (Gorilla glue works fine), hold them in place with temporary water hose clamps and lower the coach on them until the glue sets up.
Must hold them in place or they will creep and not remain centered on the existing buttons (more a visual issue than a functional issue).
Neal
Exactly what I mentioned in another posting yesterday about adding 1' pipe spacers (see uh oh posting)
jOHN h
Dave, IMHO using conveyor belting only decreases more the clearance between tyre and under floor. and if the tyre was to bottom out it would just rip that off and smell like a fire.
John H
I think you might miss some of the clearance to level if you take it too far. Much hard to get level on a 40-42 than it was on my 34 36 version of the coach. i have not bottomed out running but I have set the coach down far enough to touch when leveling.
Not sure how helpful this will be to hear, for I guess it depends upon what drives the concern for the coach resting on the tires. FOT told me it is not a problem to do that, it is designed to handle. I wonder if any readers know otherwise for I just took the FOT representative's guidance and so have not considered increasing that distance. And I suppose if one did increase that distance then it that it would not change the ride height or no one would consider doing this? Mike
In six years I have found it to be a non-issue. In any FT with air bags, if you move the coach before the air system is fully pressurized, you're going to get scuffing, but just resting on the tires is no problem.
Mike,
FOT told me the same thing. That the coach is designed to handle that contact. They also told me that my plywood floor delamination, near the area that the RF tire contacts when the coach is parked and leveled in my driveway, is not because of the "bowing" induced by the tire contact.
I accepted that for years, until good FT friends of ours parked a 2000, U320, 40', in the same spot in our driveway, for something in excess of a week and suddenly they had a floor delamination that they didn't have before parking there. Since then, I've found a few others with the same era coaches (1996 to 2000) that have flooring delamination. The common factors seem to be these model years and owners that routinely dump their air bags or level in locations that induce tire/floor contact. Of the ones that I am aware of, the delaminated plywood locations have all been in the general vicinity of tires that have been in contact with the floor for extended periods of time.
So you decide. It may be convenient to say that the coaches are designed to handle the contact, but why then does plywood flooring delaminate in that general vicinity?
I know of one owner that was able to inject some glue into the delamination (through a saw kerf) and then just lay in a pattern of wood screws. I know of another owner that had a patch of the floor replaced and the carpet relaid. It was an extensive job - several days - replacing just the (large) "patch" of the flooring. After seeing that, I just live with mine. When humidity is low, the delamination is not perceivable. When it is high, it can be very perceivable, even through the carpet.
If I'm right, it seems like others should have seen the problem. What have others found, in terms of delamination, when replacing carpets with tile or other flooring?
Neal
Sounds like an invitation for Ernie to chime in.
Brett,
We all know that not everyone has been as fortunate as you.
Dump or Not? (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14319.msg82845#msg82845)
Neal
Another reason to carry a spare bag with you. Depending on your location, you may not be able to move the vehicle without causing damage where the tire makes contact if the bag has a severe leak. Plugging the line didn't do the trick on ours.
Imagine trying to install chains or better yet, imaging what the chains could do to the wheel well.
Pierce
Nono! I meant using layers on top of the existing bump stop to add clearance (keep the tire further from the wheel well!)
We carry an emergency length of 4" x4" wood that we could put between side-to-side frame members to allow us to drive coach with ride height problem and not let tire touch floor.
Maybe I am wrong but it looks like we have a mix of issues in this posting.
1--- I do not dump air but have had tyres resting on underbody floor which I do not like, that is why I am going to put those washers on as I mention. I personally do not trust the floors and when you hit a large bump in road or?
2-- If you have a bag failure while travelling then Barry's idea makes sense to me as a "get to a shop fix" and having a spare as Pierce mentions also makes sense, but you can only prepare for so many problems to happen without towing a truck full of parts.
I have a little plastic card that is my "spare parts" collection, but yes, things can happen in the middle of nowhere or do not carry the right tools to fix anyway. (or the ability to )
John H
Sorry, read it wrong. Maybe instead of putting it on top of stop just put a few layers next to it so they are higher than present stop. I just think if you put them on top of it ,ultimately they may get cut thru by weight of coach pressing on it. Sort of like a "punch" ???
John H
Anything one can do to prevent being towed is worthwhile as towing can cause additional problems.
A good trick we always used to make sure the right rear tire was larger in circumference than the left rear was to chalk a tire and the ground (at operating pressure) at the spot where it met the ground, roll or drive until the tire chalk mark was at the ground again, mark the ground and measure between the lines. While not a race car, the same method applies if you do that against another brand/tire on the coach. You can compare circumference exactly. Have to have both tires at the same air pressure. Another coach close by can be also compared.
Take the circumference and divide by pi or multiply by .7854 to get the exact diameter.
Pierce
Guess I'd want to exhaust all other alternatives before I raised the bump stops with a non resilient material, seems like you could jump from the pan into the fire doing this. It also, of course, reduces your leveling range but a buckled floor is nothing to sneeze at either as components other than the floor (wall bond, paneling, cabinets) could also be affected. Seems like the key is care in leveling to avoid tire contact. Since we tend to get into some pretty primitive sites that often exceed the leveling capacity of our 36, to say nothing of a 40, I've been idly considering some air lift bags for these situations. I am sure I don't want to lug plywood around!
Chuck
For Chuck, Neal and Dave....and John H. too.
I think I understand both views of discussion....to change it or leave it as designed, and a distinction between some as being apples and oranges, others not so. I generally like leaving things as the factory said but see your points. Then Chuck introduced another thought about primitive site leveling and Neal talked about designs differing from some years. With regard to those.....
1. I have a 2001 and there is wheel scuff on the wheel well. It does not seem to have damaged anything but it is slightly indented. I wonder the if that is correct, I am safer in a 2001 for this than say a 1999 or it just happens mine looks a bit better. The 1999 - 2001 coahces seem so similar to me.
2. When parked on a sloped site, the wheel well rested on the passenger front. It became as Chuck or another of you define, the support point that determined all else. That worried me. So I called James Tirana at FOT and he told me not to worry, it was designed for this. (But this discussion has me wondering again.)
3. I had determined that this year rather than lug around a 5.5 inch platform for the front wheel that I would decrease the passenger side platform to 3 inches so the wheel well does not rest on the tire. Just seems better to me in spite of what I heard from FOT. This discussion raises the question I had, perhaps I should not have let it rest on the tire while parked.
4. I have met one fellow in a park who rests his coach on all the tires. I think better than only one touching.
I thought that I recalled in our operations manual from FOT that we could in fact move the coach, slowly, in the dumped air position? I assume that is rubbing on some or all of the tires and wheel wells. I guess I need to see if I can find that reference.
Thanks for an informative discussion. Mike
Fixing to put 8 - 1/2" bar stock pieces in mine, got them cut just got to get down to the shop to weld them in. Right wrong or otherwise it will allow me to move the coach with the air bags deflated if the need where to arise. These will be welded to the original suspension stops
We have a '96 U-295 and it had the "scuff marks" since we got it in 2005. It now has 150,000 miles on it and I'm just not worried. We have no problem with the floor. We did get into a minor problem with tire sizes a couple of years ago and the company we bought them from admitted they'd told us the wrong information about the sizes after we'd gone about 100 miles. Tehy made good on the deal by installing another brand with the correct size. Our worry was the tires in front rubbing on the airbag fram. That can't be good on either the frame nor the tire. Happy now with original size tires and some rub or scuff marks on nderside of coach. I trust James to give me the correct information when I need it and for you guys to hash out all the possibilities so I can make an informed decision. Maybe if you all just sent me your money and I'd be the test rig for all the possible changes offered on the Forum...yes, that's an idea!
My 95 has the same scuff issue.
jor
Bruce,
Thank God you are welding them in and not glueing them on as someone suggested. With glue they will eventually pop free and be kicked up by a tire into somebody behind.
1/2" over the existing 3/8" round piece is the number that I came up with (1995 U300) to insure no tire contact with Mich 275/80R x 22.5. I went a different route and came 7/8" off of the frame and hose clamped on. Not totally sure what you have to disconnect to weld on your frame so just a reminder that maybe the tranny and engine ECM's should be disconnected before welding.
Welding Checklist (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=technical:chassis:welding)
My U295 with Michelin tires has a small dimpled area in the floor over each tire ,but no real scuffing . So for me I don't think it's a problem.In the travel mode for me there is 3 1/2" from the frame to the stops. I haven't heard of anyone bottoming out on the road as they drive, but I don't think I wont to reduce that 3 1/2" by adding any type of spacer.Gam
Gam,
It's fortunate that you don't have to drive I-495 around Boston.
The Commonwealth of Massachusetts is famous for grinding 3 or more inches of pavement off miles and miles of highway, laying in short, ramped, approach aprons to say 4" or 5" higher concrete bridge sections and then turning 65 MPH/70 MPH traffic loose on it for several months at a time before they repave the highway. I always try to ease up in time but you never know just how bad it's going to be except through recent experience. Sometimes, even after they are done repaving, it's several inches of elvation change over a few short feet of highway (Glass smooth highway/several inches higher bridge section/glass smooth highway again, all at 65 MPH or you get trampled).....you get the picture.
Anyway, the only times we have "bottomed out" (it's VERY evident when you do and you are not likely to ever forget it) have been when the cargo bays were empty, tanks were very low to empty and a new Commonwealth "wake up call" appeared. This isn't a likely scenario for most owners, but we used to use the coach in a business where we were often returning to home base very lightly loaded. We have had other FT friends describe similar "bottoming" experiences, not so lightly loaded, in the NE and in the Maritime Provinces.
Just for clarification,
Neal
So from the sound of it you either hit the floor or add spacers and hit harder on the frame when you hit a bump. This is the first I've heard of hitting the floor and or bottoming out the suspension as your driving. I have been on some less then good roads { Metro Detroit } so my wife was always on pothole detail. But I can't think of a time when we bottomed out the suspension.I had been thinking more about clearance when parked ,and that adding spacers would lession suspension travel and in your case a harder bump if you bottomed out..How thick is the flooring over the top of the wheels and is there any frame members in that area?Gam
I would caution about increasing the height of the metal donuts because metal to metal contact can be very damaging to the suspension parts. I noticed that those donuts had made indents in the mating framing metal on my coach. I installed half inch thick high impact plastic between the top of the airbags and the frame. The bolts in the top of the airbag are long enough to accomodate this without modification. Now the weight of my coach is resting on the rubber bumper inside each airbag when the air is dumped and the tire does not touch the floor.
I would like to increase the ride height by one half inch, but am concerned about drive line and steering angles. Does anyone know if increasing ride height by a half inch will cause problems?
There are some threads from years ago describing how some folks inserted 3 inch thick blocks of metal between the axles and the framing to increase the distance between the tire and the floor. This allowed them to the leave everything else as it was. This also raised the center of gravity, such that I believe these coaches do not handle as well as they did before raising them. Has anyone ever driven one of these raised coaches?
Wyatt,
I am considering doing the same thing. The internal bumper is designed to prevent significant damage to the vehicle or suspension in the event of a sudden loss of air pressure in the spring. As they are currently installed they serve no purpose. BTW how did you determine the the plate thickness?
A change in travel mode setting from 8" to 8 1/2" is a good question for Foretravel. That would increase your driving clearance without a change in parked leveling clearance. More height and more air in the bags. Less chance of bottoming out. Koni shocks may help on the rebound.Gam
Gam,
Check yours with a magnet, but no frame members directly above my wheels (strictly intentional, I would guess).
3/32" (? guess ?) Fiberglass sheet, 1 and 1/2" rigid blue insulation foam, 1/2" plywood flooring, carpet/flooring.
See Dick's pictures in the following thread:
Replacing Generator fuel line on '99 U320 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14104.msg80841#msg80841)
Neal
As you raise the height, the driveshaft angle changes too.
Air spring Spec's:
Design Height: 7.5-8 inches
I determined the effect a half inch thick spacer above the airbag would have by careful measurements facilitated by clamping rulers to frame members and adding some air. At 3/8 inch increase I could not slide a piece of thin metal between the tire and the floor, however, at half inch I could. Also, half inch thick material is readily available. I would have gone a little thicker (5/8 inch) if the airbag bolts had been longer.
If I park on gravel, I check for rocks stuck in the tire before dumping air.
A benefit to 295 75 tires over 275 80 is that lower air pressure is required to carry same weight.
Wyatt,
What is your airbag height in travel? They are designed to be set from 7.5"-8"
While I did measure it some time ago, I donot remember the airbag height in travel mode. I am at the airport about to board a flight to Canada, but will return to my motorhome in ten days and I will measure it then.
I looked at the drive shaft when the coach was sitting in travel mode. The tranny shaft was slightly higher than the differential shaft.