I am new to this site and i am thinking about buying a 40ft late 80's model. You guys seam to know a lot about these coaches. What is a fair price? What do I need to look out for? Any info will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Robert
I do not think you will find many 40 foot late 80s. Now you will find lots of 40 foot late 90s coaches.
Why is that? Low inventory? Or did they not make them.
Rob,
I looked at a 40' 86 ORED in Emporia Ks. about 2 months ago. He was asking 15K. It had 185,000 miles, needed rear tires and some general facelifts. It did have a stacked W/D and the engine purred like a kitten. Since it wasn't a Unihome chassis I passed on it. I wanted the Unihome, air suspension and a few other extras this one didn't have.
You may not want to rule out 36 footers. A lot of us went for the slightly shorter coach by choice, not because they were left over.
Length aside, you will want to spend hours reviewing past posts on the forum. Virtually every topic has been covered, sometimes many times over.
It would be nice to have every model by year on a one page chart with all the features/differences in columns so you could see exactly when, for example, Foretravel installed the carpet style headliner or went to side radiators.
Pierce
The one I am looking at is a 1988 102" wide. I talk to the seller, but have not seen it. He says everything works on the coach. I just want make sure everything I should be looking for whEn I go to see it.
If you go to the following link, with a little work, you can see for instance, when Foretravel went to 102" wide coaches. Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs)
Pierce
I agree Pierce,
I tried several times and found it an imposable and time consuming task trying to find accurate info.
My spreadsheet had way to many columns across because of so many options and models.
My eyes blurred. So rather than a spreadsheet I decided to take it in pieces. Vehicle Weights, Capacities, Floorplans etc. and a page with the info on major model changes that I could find Foretravel's Company History (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=foretravel_general:start) and a Highlight page Foretravel Model Lineage 1967-Present (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:lineage) to try and accomplish a complete history.
I attempted to start a topic Foretravel Coach Changes over the years (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=16348.msg104284#msg104284) to see if we could get any additional info to add to what I had, before the info is lost for good from the people that know.
Low inventory still on the road and I do not think they were 102 inches until the early 90s as well.
I looked at Barry's site, and the first mention I found of 102" is 1992. I would assume that if anything earlier on his site was a WB the literature of the time would have mentioned it, but I'm still pretty new at Foretravels. I know that some others (Wanderlodge and Newell) had WB coaches in 1988.
Berry,
Didn't mean to pick on your site as it's super. Just sitting home with a nasty cold and thinking about all the little changes made from one year to the next. I'm sure Excel would be challenged with the number of cells required to detail all the little changes. Plus, each coach seems to be a bit different regardless of year. Great job again.
Pierce
I'm pretty sure '92 was the first year for wide body coaches.
I never thought that.
I was just agreeing with you as it would be a great piece of information to have such a page.
He says it's a 1988 and a wide body. I guess I will find out when I see it. I will take atape measure with me.
I think you will find it is not 102 but post the number for us all to learn.
Rob, do you have a picture of the front of the coach. If you do look at the grill, if there is about 6 inches between the chrome grills instead of about 2 inches you will know. I think late 92 is when they came out with the 102. I know my 93 was the wide body and had the 6 speed transmission. Good luck on you hunt.
No pics, he is little tech challenged. I am going on Sunday to look at it.
BTW, I was going to buy a newer rv, but after reading this website I decided to get a FT. I hope I am making the right decision.
Might look closely at the claim that "everything works" if the owner advertises it as 102" wide. Read as much as you can before checking it out. You need the exact model with length, engine, floorplan, etc. Remember the old idiom, "buy in haste, repent at leisure." Call one of us if in doubt on anything. We don't charge by the minute like shops do.
Pierce
Robhatric,
Welcome to the forum!
If your comfortable sharing the info, let the forum know where you are located (and where the coach is, if it's different). Someone here may be familiar with it or even in the same area to answer questions.
Michelle
Robhatric,
Let's start with the Vin and Model number on the metal plate next to the wall next to the driver. Easily obtained by the previous owner and will tell much of what everyone needs to know. When I was inquiring about one that is the first information I wanted to know. It gives a lot of the specs and takes most of the guess work out of the coach on when it was built, etc. as I learned from Barry Beam's incredible website.
Jerry
I am in southern California. The coach is in central California. I know the seller and he is pretty maticulous with his stuff. He is also a car mechanic, so I know mechanically it is good. I just want to make sure if an older FT is not for me, then i don't want to lose too much money selling it.
Rob, is it a U280 or a Gran Villa
If you know the owner, then obtaining the VIN No. and Model No. from the driver's side plackards should not pose an issue. With that information, you should be able to tell all the information you need. If the coach has all the original manuals and electrical/mechanical drawings, that's worth something more.
Realize that these coaches are getting up in age. There will be or could potentially be a substantial repair/improvement budget to get it to be ready for more years of use. We'll be here to help. Good luck in your search & welcome to the Foreforums.
Rob,
I am only an hour away from the Sacramento area and will be glad to take a look at no charge if you can get the owner to drive it to Sac. We will be in Sac Saturday afternoon.
Pierce
Is this a Gas or Diesel coach
To quote Jim Freytag: "I think late 92 is when they came out with the 102. I know my 93 was the wide body and had the 6 speed transmission."
Rob, My '92 U-280 was built in Nov. '91 and is a wide-body (102"); the '92 U-225's and 240's were still 96" wide. However, in '92 they still put the 4 speed MT-647 Allison in the U280. As Jim said, '93 was the first year for a 6 speed in the 280's.
"'93 was the first year for a 6 speed in the 280's." Unfortunately, the 93 U300 still has a 4-speed.
I don't know if it is a grand villa or a u280. I actually don't even know the difference. I have had boats, fifth wheels and a couple of diesel trucks, so I think I can figure out if it is worth buying or not by test driving it. You guys have been a lot help and I appreciate it greatly and I will let you know all the details as soon as I find out. I would love to be a part of the FT family. You guys sound like really good people.
For comparison, here is a 1994 GRAND VILLA SE wide body on ebay with a bid of $24,200, reserve not met yet 40ft FORETRAVEL GRAND VILLA SE 300 HP CUMMINS DIESEL CLEAN QUALITY CLASS A in (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/40ft-FORETRAVEL-GRAND-VILLA-SE-300-HP-CUMMINS-DIESEL-CLEAN-QUALITY-CLASS-A-/261183709590?pt=RVs_Campers&hash=item3ccfc32196#ht_3268wt_1165)
Here is a very similiar 1994 Unihome for $40,000. Class A Motor Home (http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/rvs/3634111573.html).
And here is a 1987 37 foot for $17,000. Foretravel Grand Villa Diesel (http://fresno.craigslist.org/rvs/3610861778.html).
I would think with a 300 hp Cummins engine this unit is a U280.
Your right! Did'nt notice the hp, just the 300.
he said it had a 6 cylinder 2 cycle detroit with allison transmission
Oodle popped up with a Silver Anniversary 92' U300 for $26,000 in the Pacific Northwest that purports to be in great shape. Too good to be true? Prospective buyer beware, but were I in the market, this model would be high on my list. Some details may be iffy, such as a reported 400hp Detroit, but it lists some sort of modification so may be possible? Anyway, interesting and if a scam, better ad copy than most I have seen. ;D
Don
Edit: guess I should add the link;
92 Foretravel Diesel Pusher | 1992 Foretravel Motorhome in Portland OR | (http://rvs.oodle.com/detail/92-foretravel-diesel-pusher/3337726895-portland-or/?cm_mmc=email_alert-_-www-_-vehicle-_-1)
6V92 aka Silver 92.
775 ft·lbf (1,051 N·m) @ 1200 rpm; 253 horsepower governed at 2100 rpm
816 ft·lbf (1,106 N·m) @ 1200 rpm; 277 horsepower governed at 2100 rpm
957 ft·lbf (1,298 N·m) @ 1300 rpm; 300 horsepower governed at 2100 rpm
1,020 ft·lbf (1,380 N·m) @ 1300 rpm; 335 horsepower governed at 2100 rpm
depending on how it was set up.
The Ebay coach is a U280 SE with 6 speed plus retarder - AKA BDGVOT (best damn Grand Villa out there).
Any '92 or '93 U300 will have a 350hp 6V92TA. Very easy to bump the hp up to over 600 but most 6V-92s in boats had 475hp to 535hp from the manufacturer. Hard to cool one in one of our coaches with much more than 350hp without adding a front/roof radiator.
Both are 102" wide.
Pierce
According to Barry's spec sheets, the 102" wide bodies started in 92 with the 280's and above. The 225/240's were still 96". :-X
My 92 is a 102!
see ya
ken
When we were researching we found that Foretravel started the wide bodies in 1992 for the U280 and U300. Other companies started at different times, so one can't just assume that because a 1988 SOB is a wide body, ALL 1998 coaches are wide bodies. I think that by the late 90's everyone had switched to wide bodies, at least for most of their production, but there may be some that held off.
i still have not made it up to see it, but I did get a model. It's a 1988 grand villa u320T 40" WB 102"
Check Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs) I think you will find that some terms in your description don't go together well when describing a specific Foretravel coach. Best I can tell:
1988 model year will not be U320 nor 102"
Grand Villa will not be U320
Inquisitive minds are curious regarding what you find when you can see and touch the vehicle. Take your tape measure to check length and width. Take your camera to capture the identification plates near the driver's position, the graphics, the engine, and the interior. If you have the opportunity, take an experienced FT owner with you, also. :) On this forum there are lots of experts at your disposal. Your experience may add to the body of knowledge.
Nor will either 1988 nor Grand Villa be a U320
T, which I'm fairly certain means a tag axle coach.
now you guys have me wondering. I know him, so i know he is not lying. either way I will find out this week or I will move on to something else.
What information I have seen sure does not add up correctly, but first hand will sure let you know what the coach is, and as previously stated the information from the vehicle id plate will let others also know what the coach is.
Sounds like the model year is wrong, maybe a 1998?
That's a good guess. I just went out and confirmed that my bransspankinnewtome '89 U280 is 8 feet wide.
I finally made the 2 1/2 hour drive to look at the coach. It is a 1988 U300 grand villa. With 128,000 miles third owner. I did not make an offer, because it would not drive. It started, but the transmission had an electrical warning light. He said he would get it fixed. The interior is original and was kind of worn. The wife would not go for it in the state it is in. I know a lot of you guys have done work on your coaches, how much would it cost to have someone redo the interior. Re-upholster the sofa and seats and refinish the cabinets.
What is wrong with the cabinets? Scratches or water damage? Old english does wonders with the walnut. Has is been sitting out? Any smell from the cabinet interiors? Interior work might be the least of your worries. What does it look like underneath?
Pierce
Nothing is wrong, just dated looking. The wife likes lighter colors. The coach has not been used for awhile, so it smells musky.
Must have heard the wife's comment a thousand times as a Foretravel sales manager in the late 80's. too dark...
I had a lady poke her head in a similar coach one day at a show and start to back out like alot of prospective buyers but I stopped her like I normally did and asked her from the inside "what wrong?" Knowing the answer but what the heck. She said it was too dark. Yea so? What's wrong with beautiful walnut was my answer. She mentioned that she was a psychologist and then looked at me and said "this must be made in a sun belt state". What?
She continued that the dark interior would be more depressing in a northern state with less hours of daylight. Dark wood and walls.
Beavers, country coach and monacos and safari's were built in Oregon with mostly light oak interiors and big front windows.
Duh. Never forgot what she said.
When I showed a coach all the lights would be on. Even in daylight.
It would not cost a lot to change out the seats and recover them. I have heard that Villa is not selling other than to OEMs because of seat belt test. I guess if you can show them you already have the same model you will be fine. Recovering the couch is not too bad but still a couple thousand bucks. The cabinets, well they are still going to be walnut. I know they have oak cabinet a few years newer but to change all of them out would be way too expensive.
So, how "Wide" was it? 96" or 102" as stated. What was the model number on the I.D. plate @ the drivers side panel?
Did you get any of this information from the coach?
I really did not spend too much time looking at it, because I knew my wife would not like it and I really don't have the time to remodel an RV.But, when I got home and started reading the renovation forum, I had a change of heart. If I could get it cheap enough, then I could have someone else fix it up. That is why I am trying to get a round about figure for the upgrades.
Btw, imo, it is not 102". on one of the sales receipts, it said it was a 1988 grandvilla u3 series.
so, I have been doing a lot of reading on the renovation forums and it looks more like home remodeling then a vehicle remodeling. I can handle house remodels, since I just got through doing my house a couple of years ago. I made an offer on the coach and he is going to get back to me tomorrow. If he accepts, then i am going to have another hobby for a couple of years.
Robhatric,
If the deal goes through here are some ideas on lightning up the wood interior. The attached pictures were taken when we first bought our coach in 2001. I was told that our coach spent its first few years owned by Foretravel where they would take it to Motorcade events to get a feel on how existing customers responded to new interior design. The finish is called Pickled Walnut and only 3 coaches were made with it. It's any easy finish to achieve: white stain is applied and immediately removed with a rag then after the stain has dried a polyurethane coat is applied over it. It's my understanding that most coaches have just an oil rub over the walnut. You would probably have to experiment to see if a pretreatment (like applying a rub down with paint thinner) is necessary before applying the finish. Apparently Foretravel listened to their salesmen (like Bob) and gave this lighter finish a try but obviously it just didn't take with customers. I personally think the dark wood is something that grows on you so if you just delay the project for a while your wife might later say "Oh, it's fine" :))
Another difference is wallpaper. They used wallpaper on the exterior walls only.
thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for. An easy inexpensive upgrade.
Start with flooring, not cabinets, tile, vinyl, bamboo lighten up coach without touching cabinets
I built a pickled oak side aisle 40' u280 for Cleo Dunlap. Last I saw it it had 300k on the clock.
I high gloss verathaned a u300 back then. Gorgeous. Looked a foot deep in the walnut.
Factory told me no more. Texas. Bet they are building high gloss now? Dr unsell.
When we would look at coaches, Jo Ann often commented that a particular coach was "too dark." When we first saw ours, I thought she would want to stay only a bit, just to be polite, and then head home because it is quite dark. Instead we visited, eventually went for a drive, and then went home. On the way she commented that she was very unhappy. I asked why, and she said that she really liked the coach, and she didn't want to. I asked about the dark wood and drapes, and she said the drapes can be replaced and she doesn't mind the dark wood!
Plus the sun bleaches out the walnut over the years. Beautiful.
I am not a fan of the typical modern RV interior, especially in the sub-100k price range. The pale wood and overly bright fabric comes across as, well, cheap. I can't say about current Foretravel or comparable interiors, aside from saying that they may have a bit more flash and bling than is perhaps utterly necessary (no insult intended, I bet I could get used to the inside of a new Foretravel!). But the late 80's early 90's, the Foretravels I've seen stepped well away from the shag carpet and floral/metallic wallpaper that afflicted so much of the competition and went instead with "gentlemen's executive office chic" and I love it. So does my better half, and we're up here in the dark soggy PNW. The dark wood goes just fine with bright lights.
Nor am I. Oak along with gold fixtures and shag wall to wall was the big thing in home furnishing in the '70s and 80's and carried over into motorhomes. A great super strong wood but a little goes a long ways. Agree about the "Las Vegas" interiors in a lot of new coaches. Hey, granite looks great on a kitchen countertop at home but it's really heavy stuff. No wonder some of the newer 40+ footers drop down to 4 mpg range in hilly terrain. With four slides, they need every one of the 500hp.
Some of the newer coaches are using some very tasteful lighter woods. Still, with the right carpet (OEM is great stuff), fabric colors and patterns, the walnut interiors in the older Foretravels have an understated class missing in so many today.
Pierce
My 93 U280 came with a pecan interior. It was beautiful.
where are all the pictures, so I can get ideas on my interior.
I have seen oak in quite a few coaches when we were looking, and although I like oak, most of the ones we looked at had finishes that did not appeal to me at all. Much of the time, it was some sort of laminate- not even a real wood veneer, with maybe solid oak on the door frames if you were lucky. The ones that did have real oak, either had such a glossy plastic looking finish or some sort of stain which just ruined it for me. I love the oak cabinetry in our coach, the subtle shine achieved with an oiled finish as opposed to the urethane gloss. I also love dark woods such as walnuts, rosewood, mahogany etc., as well as most hardwoods when finished without stain, but in our coach, I am quite happy with the natural looking Red Oak cabinetry. The look of oak, as with most other woods with distinctive grain patterns, much depends on how the wood is cut. You can get some really over-the-top wild looking grain from Oak when flat sawn wood and with certain cuts, or you can have more subtle grain as in the way it is done on our coach. What I am saying is that it's not just the type of wood, a lot depends on how the wood is used and how it is finished. Foretravel did it right!
Don
Don,
Looks as if I put my foot in it! I just never like the shiny surface that most have like a Discovery. Will have to check yours out. Red Oak if cut right looks good. I can see I'm going to need a lot of atta boys to make up for it. ;D
Pierce
Let's see some of those pickled (whitewashed) oak cabinets when they're 15 years old. Talk about a nightmare to match repairs plus most of them are coated with a lacquer finish that turns to goo from hand oils in a few years. Gotta say, I love my walnut cabinets, both the look of them and the workmanship. If I ever gets too dark in there for me I'll put natural bamboo floors in. The foretravel interiors I've seen in walnut have all had several feature pieces of burl in select places, obviously selected by a craftsman. I'm betting the natural oak interiors are the same, with some quarter sawn stock featured in strategic places. It also looks like they may have used white oak, identifiable by the closed tyloses, also a class move.
These interiors reek excellence in millwork and enduring quality.
Chuck
No offense taken Pierce! Like I said, I am very fond of wood, having been a guitar aficionado forever. Even the smell of Brazilian Rosewood or Spanish Cypress is enough to put me in heaven... Wood, even of the same species, can be as individual as people. Here is a picture of 5 guitars, all with Brazilian Rosewood back and sides. There are various finishes, with my favorite being the French Polish on the one in the center. As you can see, there is quite a spectrum of colors and grain patterns.
Don
Pretty woods. Have been reading about CNC otherwise known as computer control milling machines. Figure you were probably somewhere in the loop here. Nice article and photos of the Plek machine at: Dan Erlewine's Guitar Repair Services (http://www.danerlewine.com/plek.html)
Pierce
Don, I have no musical ability so I should keep my mouth shut... but... Seeing your Guitar collection I guess I will lay off my Son In Law, last count by his wife ( my daughter ) was 12 guitars, latest acquisition was an old tube type amp that he says is better than sliced bread. Everyone has their hobbies . :)
Gary B