Pulled into our campsite this afternoon and during my post travel walk around I noticed a small puddle of coolant under the rear corner of the radiator. Thought it might be the hose clamp but it's not.
I remember some post's about bolts being loose and causing leaks which I will check later but I am thinking I may want to add some Bars leak or something? Has anyone had any issues using a coolant stop leak? We use the OAT based coolant.
Dean
We were told to use 4 cans of Barrs Stop Leak C-16 on the Alaska Motorcade and it worked.
Dean,
I would suggest that first, you try and find the source of the leak. Might need a bright LED flashlight and a small mirror. If the leak is exposed, I would first take the pressure off the system, throughly clean the area and then try a bit of JB Weld. I just made a temp repair on a water well pressure tank with 75 psi and it is holding fine a month later. Have used it on broken radiator tubes and it lasted for years.
I have used a tablespoon of cayenne pepper and it stopped a couple of small leaks. Barrs Stop Leak is my third choice. I just don't like additives in the cooling system if there is an alternative. Probably just me but they are not like an oil leak additive where you can just drain them out.
Naturally, a radiator shop will be the best solution if close by. Generally, small leaks indicate a problem that may get worse down the road.
Pierce
Hi Dean and Dee. Soon after we bought, found a small leak while in the shop for other work. Nothing noted before that, no puddles. When took things apart, as one must on a 2001, we found the bolts along the end of the radiator were all rusted and failing. Had to replace the radiator, major coach bucks.
I do not disagree with an additive to stop leaks. I just caution that IF I had tried that in mine on my own and though it ok (it cured it), it seems it would have been temporary and a pretty major loss before long, leaving us stranded. It was better to have the repair in the shop than on the highway. I hope you can find out the exact cause of the leak and assess the best way to fix this.
Mike
Had a small puddle at the same location.Turned out I needed a gasket in the rim of the radiator cap. Gam
Just replaced the cap recently.
I will see if I can find the leak but of course we are in a casino park and the minute I open the engine door a security truck comes along and I get a "look" so I will have to do the "Mission Improbable" operation to fix it, hanging upside down on a wire in the dark hoping a bead of sweat dosen't hit the ground. :P
We had a leak that was from a seam that joins a tank to the radiator core. I believe the tank is attached by two rows of bolts. I tightened the inside row, which stopped the leak and while we were at FOT earlier this year I had them tighten the outer row. I could not access the outer row of bolts. Photos attached. Hope this helps and that your problem can be solved this easily. Dick
Dean, had a small leak in my rad about a year ago, 2 bottles of Bars Leak C 16 Leak all gone, have not added coolant since. There are a lot of old wives tales about radiator stop leak, however the new stuff works. As others have said check all connections and the header bolts first. With the cost of a new radiator($4000+)/or the cost to R&R and repair, stop leak is well worth a try. Sooner or later any radiator will have to come out for repairs, at least by adding stop leak if you can't find the leak it will give you time to shop the job.
I thought my rad was leaking and after having it removed and rebuilt twice still a leak I found it was the small plastic reserve tank was cracked at the back and running down hoses and dripping on the corner of the rad looking like a rad leak. After replacing the plastic tank end of problem. Expense lesson. If I had to do it again I would have a presser check done before removing the rad. Learning Learning.
Dave 2003 U320
Dick that is tha exact area mine is leaking. I will try to get at the bolts today and see if that helps. If not I will go the Bars Leak route.
Thanks to everyone, Dean
If one can find a mechanic or a shop to remove the radiator you can take it to a Radiator repair shop and have a new core installed for under$1500. You can even get a higher performance radiator for that price if you are having any cooling problems. I was quoted $4500 at FOT for a new radiator and $1600 for a new core by a local radiator shop. Luckily I didn't need a new core once they pulled mine and opened it up so I just paid labor. I did have a new water pump installed while the radiator was out of the coach. This was on my U225 in 2009.
Ours leaked back in 2009 and it was from a couple of bolts on the radiator as well. I didn't see which ones, but the tech at FOT both tightened the bolts and put in a couple of cans of Bars Leak and we haven't had a recurrence.
Ha - that's 3 '03's that have had the leak. Around here that would have me adding "check radiator bolts for coolant weeping" to our "Coach List 2013.xls"
Michelle
Well I just tightened the row of bolts that Dick's photo showed and they all took about an 1/8 turn to tighten.
I only find one row of bolts, (which is where the leak appeared). Where is the second row that Dick mentions?
Hopefully that takes care of the issue but I am going to go pick up some Bars Leak just in case. I think Michelle is right, there seems to be a pattern with the 03's here.
Thanks, Dean
Is that an Excel file I can find on the forum (hint, hint)? ::)
So an online search shows several types of Bars Leak for radiators. Anyone recall which one FOT used?
Never mind. Reread the thread. ::) Bars Leak C 16
Dean,
I may be too late.......
Go gently on those bolts. It is very easy to quickly make things a LOT worse, if you're not sure of what you're doing. Especially since they are so difficult to get access to. It's very easy to slightly alter the shapes of the radiator tanks and frames and the in-service gasket isn't as accommodating as a new gasket would be.
FOT had many difficulties with the original radiators in the '96 to 2001 timeframe. I'm not sure of the details, but I think that the radiator designs were changed substantially before they got rid of those problems. Many coaches had radiators replaced under Warranty, etc. Some coaches, several times. Two years ago when we were in NAC, I saw a 2000 U320, that we used to pal around with, getting its fourth radiator. But then, the original owners would not permit the use of Bars Leak.
If you can find the exact source of the leak, and you're only seeing a small amount of leakage when engine is shut down hot, leave it for FOT or MOT to evaluate.
I had a leak that only occurred when I shut down after running hard under load (residual engine mass heating). FOT NAC very gently torqued the immediate vicinity bolts near the source of the leak (end bell tank bolts) . They were reluctant to do that and told me so. The leak didn't change characteristics over the next six months. They offerred to change the radiator under warranty, but suggested that we try Bars Leak first. We tried the Bars Leak in 2000. I never saw another drop of coolant under the coach and I stopped losing the one or two quarts that seemed to go missing routinely.
Just saying, I wasn't happy about sealing a leak from the inside out, and avoided it for quite some time. But FOT knew best and I'm happy.
BTW, I always perk up when something new pops up right after I took some intended improvement action..........i.e. - look carefully at that coolant system cap that you just replaced/and its mating surfaces/and its potential leak pathway to your coolant on the ground/Etc./Etc.
Happy hunting,
Neal
Thanks Neal. I was pretty careful not to overtighten the bolts. I really won't know anything until we get back on the road but I will take another look at the cap, OF tank etc. to make sure it's not coming from anywhere else.
It's a pretty small leak so hopefully between the bolts and some Bars Leak all will be healed up.
I assume the Bars Leak should be added at the radiator cap and not the overflow tank?
Thanks, Dean
That is correct. After it is cool.
Well it's still leaking. Was hoping the bolt tightening would make it go away. So I picked up some Bars Leak Heavy Duty because no one around here carry's the C16. Bars Leak web-site recommends the heavy duty for diesels.
Now just have to find some Rottella ELC just to have on hand. I poured my last half gallon in yesterday. Fingers crossed on the Bars Leak.
Dean
Dean when I put the Bars Leak in mine I drained a couple of gallons of coolant added bars leak, then topped it up with the coolant I drained out. I then drove it about 30 miles to get things warmed up to operating temp. After it cools off over night you may need to top up the coolant again, then you should be good to go.
Today I crawled under the coach again with a good light and found the inner row of bolts. You have to squeeze your head in so you can see inside the fan shroud. There was evidence of a leak at a couple of them but i did not try to put a wrench on them.
So then like Barry did, I siphoned off a gallon of coolent out of the radiator and dumped 3 bottles of Bars Leak in and we took a 25 mile ride to warm things up.
3 cheers for Bars Leak! No more drippy...... ^.^d
Yeah, I know. I may have to deal with it again at some point but if I can keep a couple grand in my pocket for now I am a happy camper.
Thanks again for all the great forum help. Dean
A couple or three Grand in the hand will always make for a happy camper, and a full fuel tank.
Ok, Michelle, add one more to your list of 2003 FT's with leaking around the bolts holding the tank to the core.
Saw a wet spot on the ground under the rear end of the coach tonight at our beautiful spot here on the Mississippi river in downtown Keokuk, Iowa. Looked at the end of the radiator and, sure enough, just like the photos others have posted, there was a leak.
I did not take Neal's advice - I cranked on them a bit with a short wrench (nothing personal, Neal). Five on one side and four on the other were a bit loose (1/8 turn or less). Those above (that I could get to) were tight. Tomorrow I will find some Bars and more Rotella (Rotella is hard to find).
Then on to HWH in Moscow.
Jim, tightening those bolts stopped our leak. We have not needed Bar's Leak.
Dick
Jim,
1/8 turn is gentle and I was just advocating being very gentle and exercising extra caution because the bells are so easily deformed, at least on the early units ('95 to '01 time frame, I thought). I was of the impression that 2002 and later were a more robust design, less prone to leaks.
Good luck and if you still have the weep (for now), I'd bet that Bars Leak will seal it for good!
Travel safely,
Neal
Well it looks like my leak has stopped (keeping my fingers crossed).
Took a second round of bolt tightening and 3 bottles of Bars. I could have used 4 bottles according to the instructions, but thought I would be conservative. I still have one more bottle if the leak starts again.
Mine has remained leak free since the Bars leak & bolt check I did in March. It is something to keep an eye on though, especially if you have an 03 I guess....
Dean
Well, so much for keeping my fingers crossed - the leak is NOT stopped.
It still leaks when the coolant first heats up after a night of rest. Thermal expansion creates enough pressure to push coolant out the leak site(s). However, once it has fully warmed up, there appears to be no further leaking. Appearances can be deceptive, however.
Anyway, an appointment has been made at Oregon Motorcoach to have them work on it when we have the fridge replaced.
More $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.....
Jim, How did you test and where did you test for the leak? Our 02 seems to have a leak as well. I've used Bars and I see no eveidence of coolant on the ground anywhere south of the tag axle.
Now, I suspect I STILL have a small leak with the engine loop to the AH. That's next on my list of places to look.
Yes it's $$$ but you never see a Uhaul behind a hearse! Might as well spend it!
That is where my leak was. If you have a leak in the Aquahot you can join the two lines with a double male fitting. Also if it is in the Aquahot itself check the elbows. Rudy is the best one to fix it too.
Tom,
No testing required. Symptom is puddle of coolant on ground at back end of radiator. You can also see wet area around gasket on radiator. So source is pretty clear.
The problem is that you can only see and get access to the bottom 4 or 5 bolts. I've tightened those, but suspect that the bolts higher up need tightening; however, there is no way to get to those without removing the radiator. If you have to remove radiator, then you replace the gasket.
Of course the problem could be more severe, but I choose not to think about that.
Jim, I couldn't get to those to bolts either, but my son - in - law did. It was definitely wet around them. Maybe take another look. The ones we couldn't reach were the outside row, which I had FOT so early this year.
Dick, from phone
OK, Dick, with a challenge like that I had to revisit my radiator bolts.
Being in a nice peaceful place like Stoneridge (Blanchard, Idaho) sure helps. Cool morning. Lots of sunshine. Just right for crawling around under the coach.
Sure enough, with a positive attitude, I was able to get a wrench on all except one of the inside back bolts. Only a couple needed an 1/8 turn or so. Also, there did not look like any coolant had been leaking around these bolts.
The outside row was another issue. The bottom bolts (see photo) looked wet; however, they were tight. To see if the leaking coolant was coming from bolts further up, I filled the expansion tank and started the engine. Sure enough, after reaching about 150 degrees, coolant started dripping on the ground. I could then see that it was coming from higher up.
I opened the side grill and removed some of the rubber shroud material (see photo) and could get access to a few of the top outside bolts. While I couldn't stick my head in the opening to look down the bolt row, I could poke my camera in there.
It was pretty clear that the second from top bolt was a leaker. There was a lot of dirt buildup around the bolt indicating it had been wet for some time (the other bolts had only small amounts of dirt). I was able to turn it more than a half turn. The bolts on either side I could only turn about 1/8 turn. I dried off the bolts and watched (engine still running). No leaks.
We'll see.
Jim, thanks for the great photos. I'll save them and check those bolts on ours. I sure hope your leak is cured.
Boy, now I am wishing I had checked mine while I had the CAC off for repair last year. It was not leaking so I thought leave well enough alone!!! Now I am not so sure, but I do not still have any leaks. If it happens I guess I will just remove the panel again for good access.
Or get Dick and Rocky to visit us
John H
Take another trip John and we might just do that. ;D
you are welcome any time and join us at the lake here. Cool drinks overlooking the lake.
John H
I'm tired of this thread. I hope this is my last post.
Seems the last round of bolt tightening has stopped the leak (I know, I've said this before). No sign of coolant on ground or wet areas around any of the visible bolt heads. Also, no decrease in level of coolant in expansion tank.