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Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: Dick & Sue on April 09, 2013, 11:59:20 am

Title: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: Dick & Sue on April 09, 2013, 11:59:20 am
The bathroom GFI tripped the other day and wouldn't reset. Removed it to replace it and discovered that there wasn't a ground wire to the receptacle. Shouldn't there had been one?
The replacement clearly stated that you cannot reset it until the ground is connected.
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: Bobby Carter on April 09, 2013, 12:08:16 pm
GFI should work without a ground you may have something plugged in that is keeping it from resetting.
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: Barry & Cindy on April 09, 2013, 12:24:26 pm
GFCI only monitors black hot & white neutral. When electricity is not perfectly balanced, even for a moment, between the black & white, it quickly trips. GFCI safety logic does not use a green ground to work, but the outlet has a place for the ground. Missing ground wire does not prevent outlet from working, it just means that the outlet is missing a safety function.

For the GFCI to function the cable from the breaker box must go on the correct terminals, normally the terminals without a cover. The covered terminals are used to apply GFCI functions to a 2nd cable feeding other outlets.
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: JohnFitz on April 09, 2013, 12:28:32 pm
Yes,  as Bobby says it shouldn't need it.  I installed GFI's in older home that did have grounds in the wiring.
There might be something plugged in on the other outlets that are fed through the GFI that's tripping it.
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: Rob L. on April 09, 2013, 03:25:09 pm
Dick & sue,

I am an electrician and my experience with gfci's are that they are notorious for going bad for no reason. And yes, they do not need a ground. As a matter of fact, that's how you can convert a two prong house receptacle to a three prong.

Rob
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: Dick & Sue on April 10, 2013, 08:37:23 am
I am a Electrical Engineer from the automotive world and a Ham Radio operator.
We have had GF's go bad in our house. They just do that.

What I was surprised by is that the bathroom GFI didn't have a ground wire connected to the receptacle. It does now.

With out a ground, there is no GFI protection. If that was the intent, why put a GFI in the bathroom?
Just a side note, there wasn't anything plug in downstream in that circuit.

The replacement clearly stated that the new receptacle is "dead" and cannot reset until the ground is connected.
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: Bobby Carter on April 10, 2013, 10:29:22 am
Paul,

Check out this link it explains why you don't need a equipment grd for a GFCI to work. My concern is why your cable did not have a ground wire in it. Wonder if the other ckts have a ground? Call me if you have any questions I have a masters electrical license in 3 states, Ok,Ar,Tx (512-753-9655).



Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCIs): (http://safeelectricity.org/index.php/information-center/library-of-articles/55-home-safety/317-ground-fault-circuit-interrupters-gfcis)
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: Rob L. on April 10, 2013, 12:23:19 pm
I am a Electrical Engineer from the automotive world and a Ham Radio operator.
We have had GF's go bad in our house. They just do that.

What I was surprised by is that the bathroom GFI didn't have a ground wire connected to the receptacle. It does now.

With out a ground, there is no GFI protection. If that was the intent, why put a GFI in the bathroom?
Just a side note, there wasn't anything plug in downstream in that circuit.

The replacement clearly stated that the new receptacle is "dead" and cannot reset until the ground is connected.

I don't want to argue with an engineer, because that's all I do at work but the ground wire has nothing to do with the operation of a GFCI. If you have it tied in, that is great, but it will work either way.
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: Dave Katsuki on April 11, 2013, 01:59:08 am
The GFCI senses an imbalance in local current flow from hot to neutral, so if you happen to touch your finger to the hot lead downstream from the GFCI, it senses that there is more local current flowing from the hot side than is going back into the local neutral and shuts down.  The confusion about grounding is perhaps because the usual way that more current flows from the hot side is through a path back to the house ground (or remote neutral bus in the service box), even if it isn't locally connected to the GFCI.
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: Kent Speers on April 11, 2013, 05:24:38 pm
Well that was as clear as mud. Thanks Dave. I don't know how I can be such good friends with these engineering types.

We miss you guys, trip too.
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: gam on April 11, 2013, 06:44:57 pm
clear as mud? The gfi is on a 120 volt AC circuit. Both the black and white are classed as live wires .So both can be dangerous. What with AC changing flow direction 50 times per second.Gam
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: wolfe10 on April 11, 2013, 06:53:05 pm
Make that 60 times (60 HZ).
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: gam on April 11, 2013, 07:20:18 pm
That's one that spell check didn't catch.Gam
Title: Re: Bathroom GFI question
Post by: Rob L. on April 11, 2013, 07:57:00 pm
Gam must be European