When I first began to explore Foretravels, and to try to figure out what would meet our needs, I was attracted to the U240. We like simple/sturdy, and would like to be able to explore and to get into smaller Forest Service campgrounds and that sort of thing. We like to dry camp. Then too, spending a bit less on our first coach/Foretravel didn't sound like a bad idea either, since (presuming it's anything like boats) there may be a process of "trying on" a few different units to determine best fit (i.e. buying/selling). An older Foretravel sounded like it was well constructed and could still be a great coach (i.e. not falling apart) presuming it was taken care of. So we got all enthused about the U240.
But.... we tow a trailer that's around 4,500# all up. Looking at the weight charts it seemed like any of the locomotive style coaches would be out except for the top-end U300 - and that sort of negated the specific reason we were first considering them (because it's rare, fancier, and more expensive).
Back to the U240.... I see a GVWR of 24,000# and a GCWR of 26,000# That's only 2,600# difference, so on the face of it (and probably in reality) towing 4,500# would be out. But..... there is still one figure missing, which is the typical loaded "wet" weight. I mean, if it were 21,500#, for example, we'd be in just under the GCWR. I'm guessing that's very unlikely, but after writing off the U240 a few weeks ago (and then getting a bit intimidated by the bus-style coaches that do clearly have the capacity we need), I decided I should at least ask. After all, without numbers it's just guessing.
I don't have any desire to run overweight, nor to buy a barely adequate coach; but on the other hand it seems worth checking with those of you who have weighed your U240's and/or towed with them. With a typical loaded-weight number (or even an empty weight and then we could estimate our typical load), we could "do the math" properly.
Thanks ahead,
Alex
I had this same question with my u280, and folks here told me theirs weighed somewhere in the 22 to 24k range ready to roll, and the max weight is 28k. Max tow weight is more. This make of RV I think pays much more attention to these matters than most. The best way to find out of course is to run yours across a scale... something that is still on my to-do list!
Well you're not really helping here :)) No, seriously though, I do see that really any of the "bus style" coaches would tow our trailer handily. Even the "older" and less generously rated ones have around 6,000# between the GVWR and the GCWR (and the newer with the ISC look to have 10,000#).
But I still wonder about the U240 and decided I should at least check into it and work with actual figures (vs. gaps in the numbers). I have no desire to be on the edge or to run overweight, but then I have the sneaking suspicion that the U240 (even if overweight) would actually be a lot more solid than some of the SOB/gas rigs we've looked at where the numbers did allow for towing (we passed on them even so because it all just felt too minimal and shaky to us, even though we were under GVWR/GCWR/GAWR).
So, we're not looking to get into something where we are on (or over) the edge; but on the other hand we don't tend to travel with a lot of weight/stuff aboard, and we do like to dry camp, so there are good reasons why the U240 would be a neat rig for us (we also don't tow all the time, but we want to be able to sometimes).
If we can get an empty or loaded weight number and the math doesn't work out, at least we'll know we gave it up for real reasons, not just because we didn't know. (And then we'd go back to looking for something in the 1996-2000 bus-style.)
Alex
The one person I can think of who had a U240, and might have a idea of what the empty weight might be is Wolfe 10, aka Brett Wolfe.
The empty weight of my '94 U225 according to the title is 17,400 lbs. I think that title weight is minus furnishings, but am only guessing. Now I do know that I weight more that that at light weight, light weight meaning no water, no waste water, low on fuel, and low on propane, nothing in the fridge, and no cases of coke or pepsi. I know when loaded, ready to roll, with 3/4 tank of fresh water, and full tank of fuel & propane that I come very close to the GVWR of 22,500, and when we hook up our 2009 Ford Focus (2600 lbs) toad it takes me a bit over the GCWR. Am I concerned? NO. I check out my tow receiver connections/welds on the motorhome and the rear bulkhead bolts often. But would I tow a 4500 lb trailer? I don't think so.
Do I think you could do it with a U260 or U280? Yes, just don't go hog wild with how much you are towing!
From Roamie's RVSEF 4 wheel position weighing of 1993 U240 with full fuel, 3/4 propane, 1/2 potable water, empty gray and black, two people:
LF 4,250 RF 4075
LR 7,150 RR 7,450
Brett,
Thanks very much for the weight figures. The four add up to almost 23,000, which would leave 3,500# to the GCWR. Sad to say, I think that's a bit too tight. We could probably get the trailer down to 3,500#, but being THAT tight to the limits might become a burden. I'd have all that wonderful, walnut storage and have to leave much of it empty (and at that I still don't know what the RAWR is, which might be another stopper). Guess it's either on to more burdensome Foretravels or move to a lighter trailer.
At least now I know I didn't give up on the U240 without bothering to get the figures and do the math.
Thanks again for posting the weights.
Alex
Alex,
A 1999 36' 270 or 320 would be a great choice if in the budget. Ducted air, smart wheel, dual pane windows, hose reels etc.
Modern engine and transmission, retarder standard, one of the best quality years, and a good number produced
Lots of towing capacity, and gvw.
Seeing good ones in the 40's. had mid entry GV, then 99. 36' U-270, and now 2000 (40') with slide. But hard to beat the U-270 for capability, quality and smiles per dollar.
Alex,
Our 225, fully loaded (fuel, water, propane, all of our stuff, empty black & gray) weighed 20,740. Steer axle was 8,080 and drive axle was 12,660. The Gross was 22,500 and the Combined was 24,000. Our 225 had a smaller engine than the 240 and a 4 speed rather than a 6 speed. Good luck.
jor
Thanks for the additional info jor and Tim.
Tim,
I've been thinking along the same lines (1996-2000 U270 or U295, 34-36'), but it's only from "book learning," so it's good to hear it from someone who's actually owned and driven them. I hear you on the "updates" to the later ones in this range (although those tambour doors sure are sweet!). Realistically, if we could find one that didn't need too-too much additional spending in the first year or so, it could fit the budget (by that I don't mean oil changes or etc., but rather buying one in the mid-40's+ and then immediately needing a full set of tires, batteries, or that sort of thing). We wouldn't want to scrimp on regular maintenance, and we could put off some of the "fun" want-to-haves for a while and just enjoy the coach as it came. So it would come down to avoiding any (or at least many) of those $5000-$6000 necessary chunks right away (tires, batteries). Or at least not going in knowing we had them (if something unexpected came up, that's different).
Amazing resource here.
Alex
That would work well. Any Foretravel is going to be a big upgrade (in size as well as amenities), so the "wanteds" can certainly be put off. And with boats, I've often found by waiting that my ideas change anyway as I get used to how I use it, so that if I'd done everything I thought I wanted right away, I would have ended up wanting to change again anyway. What I'd like to avoid (unless the price reflects it, of course) is the need to immediately run out and buy something necessary such as batteries, tires, and things along those lines (of course if a coach is discounted to reflect that, then certainly no problem buying new ones with the savings). Seems like that sort of thing can easily add $5-$10k before you even realize it (in which case there might have been a "better" coach in that higher price range).
If a U240 had been workable, then of course things would have been a bit more relaxed due to the fact that they cost less in general, so a bit more "mad money" to spend on top of the purchase price. Anyway... onward (with a slight wistful backward glance at the U240's).
Alex
Tim are you sure the U270 has hose and power reels? And I think the U270 had only one propane furnace vs two on the other models. Having two furnaces is pretty handy and saves a bit of propane in cold weather.
Mine had reels as an option, not standard, most seem to have by now. One furnace and incredibly noisy vs. aquahot. Still an incredible machine at current prices
Our 99 U270 36' did not come with hose reels, and has a single propane furnace which is adequate but noisy. (We use a catalytic most of the time if we are boondocking.) Important advantages for us of propane furnace over Aquahot are the space savings in the basement compartments, and the reduced complexity and maintenance cost of the propane furnace.
Interesting to read your post giving another viewpoint on the propane furnace(s) from someone who boondocks. I was also thinking about a catalytic for boondocking/dry camping, so it's nice to read that it works for you. (Prefer sleeping in cool temps with a heap of blankets, so it would basically be for when up and about during the day.)
Alex
We use a Blue Flame heater always, dry camping or not. Gives us about 20K BTU so we hardly ever run the furnaces. However lowest temps we encounter are in the 30's. The heater keeps the front toasty and the bedroom cool.
Roland
Loved the simplicity, hated the noise. Would not give up the aquahot. Yep, more maintenance, but three heat zones, unlimited hot water, whisper quiet, and with a 150 gal. Fuel tank, and a residential refrigerator, never worry about running low on propane.
As it is said "you make your choices and pay your money "
Solar will be added in future, like the idea but haven't had the need as yet. Besides, Dave Head expects it on the coach when he buys it!
Like Tim says, everyone has their own budget. We like the price of the old gas furnace. We fill our propane tank twice per year and use the furnace as needed. When hooked up to shore power we use electric heaters in the coach and furnace as backup if temps drop below 30 degrees. We seldom use the resistance heat in our rooftop air conditioners since one of them is 20 years old. I purchased a 1500 watt ceramic tower type heater with remote control and a 900 watt compact ceramic heater for under $50 each. I have auxiliary electric heat (200 Watt heaters with auto thermostatic plug from Amazon) in the water bays but still use the furnace if below 10 degrees.
Its amazing how little propane we use. We turn the hot water heater off when we don't need it. We use electric resistance heat when practical and try to stay in moderate climates. Sometimes that doesn't work out since we have been in sub 10 degree weather for several days at a time. Still we seldom use more than $200 per year on propane.
I have seen Dave K's setup with catalytic heaters and would go to that if we encountered cold weather a lot while boondocking but our goal in life is 75 degree weather.