I was checking the coach after a drive today and noticed the passenger inside dual had these oil stripes all the way around.
I'm thinking this must be the axle seal. Anyone have an idea what this might run - how many Tim Fiedler "coach bucks"?
Probably should do both sides, and have the brakes serviced too.
No clue, but I cant take credit for "coach bucks", just a copy cat - may Carol and Jeff were the authors?
Originator, please step up and take credit!
Not sure on a drive axle; on a tag ours was $155 parts and labor at FOT a couple of years ago. The seal itself was $50-60 bucks.
If you have the wheels off anyway, especially to clean and adjust the brakes/slide pins, you might consider having the slide pin helper springs installed at the same time (if those apply on a 1991).
-M
@Peter when my seal went it only showed on the inside of the inside wheel and it was very obvious. Had it repaired at FOT and it was only .15 coach buck IIRC.
see ya
ken
I wouldn't do both sides. They don't seem to fail with age. I've changed the bearing oil regularly, but have had two seal failures, one front and one tag over five years and 70K miles.
I agree with Brett. Only replace the one that failed. Mine had 165K on it before it failed. The other is at 175K and is still holding. I probably just jinxed it. :(
see ya
ken
Good advice. Our coach has 130K. I think I'll leave the driver side alone, and instead put the money toward changing the differential oil to synthetic. I'm pretty sure this has never been changed.
We use Amsoil 80W-140 Long Life Synthetic Gear Lube in the front hubs and rear axle. One of the many benefits is improved seal life.
Had the rear passenger side wheel seal replaced on our coach about 6 years ago. Freightliner in Tampa did it for $500. Don't know if that is a fair price, as I didn't have time to shop. We were leaving on a trip in 2 days and had to get it done.
Thanks for the timely post. Passenger side rear seal on our coach started leaking on the most recent trip. I plan to travel to NAC for the repair. Tire is "painted" with gear lube and the fragrance of the lube hangs about the rear of the coach.
Driver side steer wheel shows a drip of axle oil on the inside of the wheel. The front seals were replaced at FOT about two years ago. I'll have them check that as well.
Being a fanatic on bearing preload, I would head for a major truck shop where this is not uncommon, while the RV shops tend to be clueless I would fear.
Per Timken Bearing instruction info, a proper preloaded tapered axle bearing will go over half a million miles with synthetci oil.
I would not get the warm/fuzzy from a RV shop.
Actually why I do my own.
FWIW
Dave M
Dave M,
Absolutely correct. It is absolutely critical for the bearings to be preloaded. The life expectancy and durability goes up exponentially. Many mechanics are unaware/ uncaring on doing this simple but important procedure. Find a good shop and ask questions first.
Larry
I have to ask. What is done to preload a tapered bearing?
thanks
ken
Google timken bearing installation
Simple once you "get it", good reading and maybe informative.
Dave M
Thanks Dave. Found this Proper Tapered Roller Bearing Installation in the Hub Assembly - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0RqlrnoiqnY#!)
see ya
ken
Agree with Dave. I worked with a retired Canadian GM factory mechanic when I was a kid. He could look at each bearing new or used, check the crush sleeve, lead the ring and pinon gear to get the contact area in the right spot, preload it with just the right torque setting and get it perfect in just several minutes. This takes years of experience to reach this level of competency. Guys with this talent don't work at RV dealers.
Pierce
I also appear to have a leaking rear passenger side seal.
I noticed the oil on the wheel on the way from California.
I checked Barry's site but could not find pictures or "how to" info. Has anyone replaced the a rear seal themselves and knows the tricks?
I have replaced car wheel seals before and I believe the rear seal just involves the same procedure as a car but with a very heavy hub and BIG wrenches.
Wyatt, I replaced myself both rotors, pads and rear seals on the 93 GV I had and it was heavy but straight forward. I am sure your model is pretty much the same and I used a wooden block to tap seals in. You must drain rear end oil first obviously. Biggest proble was moving wheels and hub around as they are heavy. It is funny just watching the video that Ken posted as when I was tighteneing up the bearings on the GV I was worried that I would do it either too tight or too loose but must have done it correct as that was 5 yrs ago and it is still on the road in ONtario. I did have some idea of what to do due to my years of working in a Machine shop etc.
John
Wyatt, the lug nuts are about 600 ft/lbs torque, then you will need to pull the axle when you do you will loose some oil but it is not necessary to drain the rearend, then cage the parking brake so the brake caliper can be moved out of the way(heavy) once that is done remove the Bering nut (I don't remember what size spindle nut socket but it is a special tool) remove the outer Bering then the hub (Real Heavy) I use a floor jack under the rotor. Once the rotor/ hub assembly is off the seal can be replaced. In short it will make a mess (gear oil) and it is heavy, I have access to a shop with all the tools, but I would not try to do it at home. Any good truck shop can do it but I would go the Arvin Metior web site and down load and print out the MM4 manual for ADB brakes, a lot of shops are not familiar with them, that way you have it on hand.
Thanks for this information.
I have no concern about the wheel nuts because I have removed/reinstalled these wheels before. I carry breaker bars, a Proto 500 foot pound torque wrench, jacks, and a mounted spare. I could change a tire on the side of the road if required.
However, I will talk to truck shops and probably have the rear wheel seal replaced by one of them. Sounds too heavy for me.
Wyatt, When my rear brakes were done we pulled the whole brake assembly off. IIRC the nut that preloads the bearing is 4 and 1/2 inches. Rear important when putting axles back in to not SKIN the seal, axle is heavy and its easy to rest it on the seal. Seals are about 60 bucks each and readily available at any truck parts store.
Gary B
Be sure to check the axle breather. They plug up and when the lube gets warm it pressurizes the axle and it will leak at the weakest link - usually the wheel seal. I take the breather out, clean it and make sure the hole on the axle housing isn't plugged. Common problem here with salt, sand used on the roads here.
Where is the breather located and how do you remove it?
Usually on top of the axle tube near the center. It is about an inch or two tall and has a tin cap on the top. It is threaded into the axle housing.
Just to follow up. I have found lots of plugged breathers that caused seal leaks, but cleaning them I don't think will fix the leak. You still have to replace the seal, but check the breather so it will not happen again. You might get lucky if the breather is plugged and the leak stops, but I always had to disassemble to clean-replace brakes so the seal was replaced then too.
I know we are talking about rear axles here, but I thought I would throw this in. If a front axle seal starts leaking I replaced mine and filled with semi-fluid synthetic grease #4 from Sentinel lubricants (instead of 90W) and installed vented outside hub seals. This product is extremely messy and tacky but we use it on all of our heavy trucks with oil bearings on steering and tag axles, it stays put and unless the seal is completely gone it will not leak. Do it once and done as far as seals leaking.
If it works, go with it. Front wheel lube has many different followers such as hand packed grease bearings, Greyhound Bus at one time used #30 motor oil like used in the DDC 8V-71 engine, I use a hub oil, that has solved my concerns too with the seepage. But the old #90 works too.
FWIW
Dave M
Front hub discussion bring to mind that the Stemco red rubber plug covers have a center vent hole that needs to be periodically cleared with a straightened paper clip. A plugged hole can put pressure on seals.
We replace our center covers periodically when they feel stiff.
http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/ryder/af/ryder/core/search/productSearch.do?event=next&keyword=w86-3595990&searchCriteria=0&searchType=5&fullSentence=yes (http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/ryder/af/ryder/core/search/productSearch.do?event=next&keyword=w86-3595990&searchCriteria=0&searchType=5&fullSentence=yes)
We also have drilled out the center of the chrome-looking hub cap so we can keep an eye on the Stemco oil level. I figure that I would never remove hub cap to check oil otherwise. Hubs use the same 75/140 gear lub that goes in rear axle.
Barry, I see you are suggesting a 1 - 1/8 inch plug. Is this the common size plug used on all Foretravels or just some? Drilling out the center of the cover so you can see the hub caps is a good idea. On commercial vehicles, you are not allowed legally to cover the window for the semco units. Thanks for this information.
Barry, thanks for another great tip.
The part number URL in your blog did not work for me in the email I received from Foreforums.
I set the browser address to "Http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com" (http://Http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com"); and searched for part number "stemco-359-5990".
I then read your blog from Foreforums and the url worked OK.
The rubber plugs on my 96 U320 are 1.125 and the breather holes are all open. I have been checking the oil level every month for the last two years and it has never gone down. I expect that the oil level would drop only if there is a leak, which would make a mess of the rim before getting too low.
I have tried checking the oil level when checking the pressure in the tires during a short break in driving (ie at a rest station). I found that the oil level always looked low, however, the oil level was not low after sitting for a couple hours. I now check the oil level before starting on a trip but do not check it during short breaks.
It sure is tempting to just overfill the front hubs, however, I believe overfilling will cause oil to leak out and make a mess.
One thing that may or may not been mentioned, but the brether vent on the rear axle can get stopped up causing increased pressure on the axle and pinion seals. Easy to check, remove and clean, reinstall, they are screwed into the top of the axle tube (1) location.
Worth a check.
Wyatt,
You're right. I don't think there is any need to regularly inspect the oil level sight glass. Once the oil level is set, the only way it can go down is to have a leak. A quick check on the back side of the tires and around the lug nut covers for any leaKage is enough.
Just got the coach back from Boyer Trucks, Rogers, MN. The RR axle seal was leaking. Brakes pads were good - at 80%. Here is the breakdown:
Replace RR axle seal - $540
Differential Service - Synthetic - $198
Some motorhomes I see in campgrounds, come with a hub cap that has a center hole. I only peek at ours before starting out in the morning. And if we are not parked on a level campsite, one side will look over full and the other side under full.