My wife and I have been searching for the "right" Foretravel for several months now - no luck so far. Our "dream" coach would be a '97 or '98 40' WTFE floor plan, either a U295 or a U320 (prefer the walnut woodwork). Need to stay at or below $60K initial cost. We are anxious to get "on the road", and since (affordable) Foretravel coaches seem to be "few and far between (or far away)", I am thinking we might need to expand our search to other brands.
This might be a stupid question to ask on a Foretravel forum, but then again, I'm sure many of you have owned other brands or investigated other brands before buying your present coach. So I'll give it a try: "What would be your second choice after Foretravel?" I would like to stick to models built on a DP chassis, with reliable engineering and construction, and hopefully good manufacturer support. I am less interested in "fancy and expensive looking" (i.e. Newell and Country Coach), and more interested in "comfortable and useable". As an example, this ad caught my eye:
2003 Endeavor W/Warranty (http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/rvs/3869385794.html)
This HR coach seems to share some of the better attributes with Foretravel (330 Cummins, Allison 6 speed, RoadMaster RR8R airbag chassis, simple but attractive interior, etc). I know it's not a Foretravel, but is it "close enough"? Do any other "reasonably priced" used DP coaches come near enough to Foretravel quality to be considered a feasible substitute, or should we just be patient and keep hoping to eventually locate the "right" Foretravel?
All thoughts and opinions cheerfully accepted!
Is it close enough???? .... close, but no cigar. Don't be afraid to travel to see a rig that looks like it fits your needs. There are a few mentioned for sale right now that really deserve an in-person look. The cost of traveling there is a very small % to be added to your eventual purchase price, IMHO.
RIght now it would be a bus conversion or a Newell.
And call MOT in Nacagdoches Tx, often they get trades that don't make it to their website since the maintain a list of prospective buyers. You can find privately sold bargains, (estates usually) but generally owners have an inflated valuation on their coaches, while MOT and FOT are generally priced realistically.
Good luck and don't settle.
If your first choice is FT, then don't settle for second choice. Your expectations regarding price, size, and model year are reasonable.
Continue to use search engines and watch this forum. Also, I agree with the recommendation to contact MOT and FOT to let them know what you are looking for.
Our 1997 U295 popped up on Craigslist in Austin, TX, and the link was posted on this forum. The coach was six miles from our home in Bellville. I called immediately and bought it within the week. I talked to Jason at MOT and found that they had contacted the seller, also. They were considering buying it for resale, and suggested that I buy it if it looked good to me. We've owned it for three years and continue to be pleased.
MOT sold our SOB coach in a week. I think they had a potential buyer before we took the coach to them for a consignment sale. Our "old" coach never made it to their web site.
We've found that maintenance and repair costs are significant. However, they are probably similar to the costs for a newer coach. Prices for the similar coaches are the same as they were three years ago.
Consider any 1997 or later Foretravel, rather than go to another brand. Why not 36', U270? Consider Kenny & Ann Lemon's coach just put market by Barry Brideau.
1996 model year did not have standard dual-pane windows, but some came with it, but many dual pane windows have serious problems and would have to be repaired or replaced. 1996 also did not have ducted roof air, which along with single pane windows should not be a deal breaker. So including 1996 will be almost the same as 1997, except for roof air distribution.
Also seeing a coach that is not in mint condition is also workable as everything can be fixed and can be purchased for less and use part of your $60 grand for updates.
Our 2nd choice is Foretravel. The problem with owning a Foretravel, is that all subsequent coaches have to be a Foretravel. Just wanting the Allison retarder excludes all other brands.
Keep looking, don't give up.
+1
I would also suggest looking at FTs that maybe don't quite meet your desired criteria for floorplan, length, wood, etc. The coach we ended up buying does not fit the parameters we were originally looking for, but the longer we own it (9 years now), the more we are really glad it's the one we bought.
To consider a brand that is no longer in existence/has no factory support whatsoever, I would research very carefully how much of an owner community there is, if there are any proprietary parts that are not available, and be prepared for the challenges that presents. FT is still in business and does support the older coaches to the extent they can (if a part is no longer available, there will usually be something that can be retrofit).
And there's no rule that says it has to be your first AND last FT - just ask Jeff and Carol ;)
I would also like to second what others are saying here. Foretravel is the one to go with and stay with. As a private charter bus owner, I have owned buses from MCI, Prevost, VanHool, Eagle, GMC, and Septra. The Foretravel is the only manufacture in the RV segment that even comes close to a true bus. The durability and toughness of a Foretravel along with the safety of a Foretravel is nothing others come close to today. Unless you want to purchase a new bus, rip out the seats, and convert it to an RV, then you better stick with a Foretravel. I am an owner of the newer versions of Foretravel and am speaking about the newer models since that is all that I have had the experience of owning and driving. I am sure the quality goes back twenty years in the original models under the Fore family.
MOT web site has 3 Foretravels under $60, including 2 36' models
Give brad at transwest Colorado a call , (714) 863-8740 he has been selling foretravels for many years and still buys foretravels back from old customers , again lots dont make it to the website , worth a phone call
60 Gs can buy you a great Foretravel. Just find one you like. If not, go for the Bounder. I love that kangaroo!
jor
Not for that $60K budget mentioned by the OP. Unless they have 2X that on top of the purchase price to bring it up to snuff :o :))
I'd have to say that if I absolutely *had* to get out on the road right now - but was not going to full-time -I think I'd look for a 28' Streamline Trailer (they're out of business) from the 1970s with solid floors and just tow it with my pickup or SUV until a FT came up for sale. These rigs come in under 5,000 pounds and are surprisingly comfortable to stay in for a couple of weeks at a time.
Or buy a new (or "newer") Airstream. Frankly, the only RVs we saw at the last show we went to that we thought were quality were Airstreams. The light weight and solid feel to these trailers impressed us.
Edit: I should explain that my motive would be to conserve cash while still having an RV so that when a suitable Foretravel became available we could jump on it.
But we have a Streamline (which I use as my fishing trailer... an RV away from the RV if you will) and are impressed with the high quality of that rig.
We are probably going to take our Streamline to Glacier next month instead of the FT just because it's easier to find a spot for a 21' trailer than it is for a 36' motor home.
Craig
I also like the Country Coach Magna and the Bludebird Wanderlodge but I still would not buy one unless there were no Foretravels left. My next choice would be a Sprinter Chassis.
Stay with a Foretravel.
I stayed near Glacier two years ago in my 40' FT, plenty of nearby commercial campgrounds that can handle 40, think we stayed at a KOA just outside park
True enough (although the KOA reservations are hard to get for this summer - our kids are staying there). With a 21' trailer we can get access to the smaller camping areas scattered throughout the park; inside the park itself.
Craig
This quote above gave me a chuckle, and it's probably true.
We bought our second choice, a 1996 Foretravel U295. That was because we couldn't find our first choice, a 1997 Foretravel U320, at a price we wanted to pay. So you see, a Foretravel can be a second choice as well as a first choice. And so far, I'd do it again!
I've been to Glacier 3 Times and never had a size issue with our 36' U-280. We stayed in St. Mary's CG in the park with no problems.
On Saturday, June 22, 2013, wa_desert_rat wrote:
There is no second choice to Foretravel. I would not buy anything else since I would not be satisfied with anything else. A secondary purchase would be a BIG mistake!
Not a DP but I have had wonderful service from a Born Free. They are the FT of the class C market. Not as easy to drive but much smaller. In fact the old Kodak story would have one in their showroom at times.
I agree -There is no second choice. When your used to the good stuff how can you take a step backwards . Just don't fit my think . Brad Metzger
Chuck, we did extensive research before we bought our U300. The only other two brands that were on our list were Wanderlodge and Newell. Both have advantages and disadvantages, just like a Foretravel. I don't know if your $60,000 budget includes about $10,000 for repairs and upgrades or whether you already set that aside, but either way there are plenty of good coaches for $50-60,000. As others have said, a phone call to MOT may put you onto something that hasn't made it to the website yet. We expected to spend a year or so hunting for the right coach, and were very fortunate to find it only six hours away and the first coach we seriously looked at. It was advertised on this forum.
If you are in a big hurry to buy "something" (and I think that's a mistake) I'd look at a 'Bird or a Newell in addition to the Foretravel. On the other hand, if you really want a Foretravel why not post a "coach wanted" message and see what happens. Someone may be thinking about selling what you want but haven't yet made the decision. Knowing that there is someone looking for exactly what they have might just give them the incentive to sell it so they can step up to their next coach.
I'd have to go with another Foretravel, U280, 300, or 320, or the Country Coach Magna. When I recently had mine detailed in and out, I repeated most of the same process myself, and I can't help but frequently admire the way the Foretravel's are constructed, and the craftsmanship that goes into building them is extraordinary. This and the fantastic service the folks at the factory provide to their customers there or on the road has to be unmatched.
Some really great responses to my question! I appreciate all who took the time to answer.
I really just threw out that link to the Endeavor to stir up the pot a bit. I figured it would get a rise out of the "Foretravel Faithful", and it did. You guys are preaching to the choir - my wife and I are totally convinced that a classic late 90's Foretravel is the best combination of quality, performance and reliability available in the RV world today (at least at a price we can afford). Unfortunately, they are also hard to find.
We understand we are making our search harder by being locked into a specific size (40') and floor plan (WTFE) and model (U295 or U320). We do not want a shorter coach, and would only consider the oak interior (U270) if EVERYTHING else about the coach was absolutely perfect. Perhaps we are being "too picky", but to this old retired couple, even our modest budget of $60K is a lot of money. We want to get as close as possible to our "Dream Coach" the first time - trading up 2 or 3 times is not gonna happen. We will remain patient, and keep looking, and hope the right one eventually shows up.
Thanx Jimmyjnr for the tip about Transwest - we will look into that idea.
This forum is a invaluable source of knowledge and ideas - without it the Foretravel brand would be a lot less desirable. Thanks to all who participate.
Ok will be on the U270s and you can find them in 40 foot too. Some years there is not much difference between a 295 and a 270 other than length. You could get a 34 footer in a U270.
FWIW, Here is a 1998 36 u270 for sale at PPL.
It looks clean to me (in photos as I have not seen). 1998 Foretravel U270 for Sale - D148NB - PPL Motor Homes (http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/diesel/1998-Foretravel-24163.htm)
It is below the 60K by about 15K.
I note that I have a 1996 36 and have been pleased with it.
Good Luck!
If you want to be a dry camper and run the gen less the white gel coat helps. We paid fair for our coach and to do it perfect will take around $10-15k to run it another 100k in miles.
Our decals are off and branches scraping the sides are not an issue. Now its ready to be used. Giant capacities and storage and excellent ground clearance. No truck sway. Minor movement at the steering wheel in gusting side winds. Less than 1/2 inch plus and minus for steering corrections. No dead spot at all.
Discussed selling it with DW but we are not motivated to do so. If it was the second choice coach it would be sellable.
I think a 97 u320 WTFE 40' sold recently for around $70k. Needed tires? Garaged original if I remember correctly.
Right at 100k miles? Ours has 107k now. Noiseless to drive.
No substitute for the xtarder. And I would add personally the aqua hot. Spent hundreds of nights on propane furnaced coach's and the difference is major.
We did not Rv for 18 years. Would still not have an Rv other than your first choice.
Toured in a convertible recently and stayed in medium hotels instead.
Real advantage is the dry camping ability. Stayed in forest service campgrounds with nothing or cracker barrels or walmarts or sister in laws drive ways on a 110 volt cord. Up to the mid 80's one air cooled the coach with the ducted air. Painted coaches require more a/c.
I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread, but we are about in the same boat. We have looked at a number of FTs and loved them. However, my wife thinks they are so much more expensive than some of the SOBs that we have seen.
How many of you are former SOB owners happy that you no longer have the SOB?
Most of us have had other RVs, if not motor homes. We have had trailers (1), pickup truck campers (2), fifth wheel trailers (1), camper vans (1), and a mini motor home (Le Sharo).
You have to remember that Foretravels were much more expensive than the Winnebagos, Itascas, and the rest when they were new. My 1993 U225 sold for around $225,000 when the biggest Winnebago was about $140,000. The U300s were around $300,000 in the early 1990s. Today a brand new Foretravel probably sells for $700,000 up to over $1 million for the most expensive version.
Even so, you can buy a U270 for under $50,000 and U225s were going for as little as $18,000 at the bottom of the market a couple of years back.
Craig
I am now on my 4th motorhome. My first was a 26ft GMC. This was a nice motorhome and well made but obviously now somewhat dated. My second was a Holiday Rambler Imperial (this was when they were still gasoline). The third was Gulfstream Sun Voyager DP. I truly liked the layout. The quality just was not there on the HR nor Gulfstream (inside nor out) like you would experience with a FT. My FT is only about 3 years newer than that GulfStream (but older when purchased) The Gulfstream was looking tired when I got rid of it. The FT looks good. No, not new, but the fiberglass still shines pretty good and the interior also looks good. I think the reason is that the quality is there in the fiberglass, wood work, furniture, etc. The FT quality after years of use still holds up. Neither the Holiday Rambler nor the Gulfstream were as well made. I will say that old GMC was a quality motorhome. Now, I am not recommending that one for you. But I can understand why one would do that if they were really nutty about those old motorhomes as it was truly better made than the other SOBs that I have owned.
Wait for the Foretravel, it's well worth it. Like Tim said, call MOT and let them know what you want. And when you find the right coach be ready to move on it, because if it's exceptional it will be sold while you're thinking about it.... I spent 2 years being picky...waiting for the right 97-98, 40' U320 to come along.
About a second choice: Ask yourself if you want a RV or a Home..... There is a difference, In my mind most SOB are built as RV's not as a Foretravel "Motorhome" with quality construction like you would expect in your Sticks and Bricks...
Stay with it.. Remember down the road of life you want to be able to say..... Glad I did, rather then Wish I did.....
Cheers
Ted
Unlike many others, I am too poor to have more than one, so I'm sticking with it.
Do not need a Sunday model and a rest of the week model. Besides, I can only drive one at a time, so the notion never crosses my mind.
Nice to be simple sometimes.
I have been looking at 01-05, Monaco Dynasty's decent coach great cabinet space, Just watch out for checking in the dark paint areas (black) on any SOB. We have been thinking of fulltiming and may go to a 3 or 4 slide 42' and Foretravel is way out of the budget. Good luck on your hunt.
Our first DP was a 1997 37' Discovery. We bought it on a whim for $25K in 2009. I said I would keep it a year. I kept it eight months and bought the 1997 36' FT for something less than $50K. The difference between the two is remarkable. We liked the floor plan of the Discovery, but it would not perform nearly as well as the FT in MANY ways.
We met the current owner of the Discovery a few weeks ago. They bought it for $25K in 2013. It is working for them and they could afford to buy it. When they looked at the FT of the same vintage, they could see where the additional cost and value lay.
When the coaches were new in 1996-97, the FT cost about twice what the Fleetwood cost. You got something for the extra money. That's still true in 2013. The price ratio is still about the same. The dollar difference is relatively small.
Even if we get a different coach, it will probably be a FT.
Bruce,
The main reason I offered up the HR Intruder (in my initial post) as a possible alternative to a Foretravel was the chassis. I think one of the strongest selling points of Foretravel is their well developed air suspension chassis. From all reports, it does an excellent job. There are other air bag suspension coaches out there - HR, Monaco, Safari and Beaver use various iterations of the Roadmaster. The 4-bag Roadmaster (RR4R) had some serious design problems (weak trailing arms), and got a lot of bad press. From what I've read, they fixed those flaws on the 8-bag chassis (RR8R) and all later versions. As I'm sure you know, the Monaco Dynasty rides on the S-Series chassis, which is the latest and greatest version. It has 10 airbags (two extra for the tag axel), mounted well outboard in front and behind each main axel. I've never ridden in a HR or Monaco, and only had a couple rides in a Foretravel, so I can't comment on the relative merits of each design. If you could add any first-hand impressions of how the Foretravel and HR/Monaco coaches compare in ride/handling , I for one would be interested. I would think even the completely satisfied Foretravel owners on this forum (there are quite a few) would like to know "What the other guys are doing". Never hurts to keep an eye on the competition, and we might actually learn something in the process.
Roadmaster has an excellent website, with a separate section on each chassis, including educational (sales) videos. Entertaining, if nothing else:
Roadmaster Chassis (http://www.roadmasterchassis.com/chassis/index.html)
Years ago I went on the factory Monaco tour in Oregon. The owners of Monaco were friends of mine and would have given me a private tour but I snuck in like the normal tourista's.
I flinched enough at different stations of the tour that several fellow tour people caught on.
When asked about what I had seen my comment was "I sure would look at all the other brands before making my decision". Word for word.
an easy way to start looking at any coaches build quality is to sight down the side of any prospective coach at the floor line. How straight is it?
In construction the Monaco products were not jig built. Roughly cut to size metal bars and measured with tape measure to a 1/16 of an inch were welded together.
If you looked down the the assembled chassis you would see dips and high points as it went along. And bulges in and out.
If you were at country coach you would notice that they laser aligned the chassis
At every construction station before touching it. 1/100 of an inch tolerance. Looked like NASA made it.
Why is that important? It isn't as important if you don't mount your sidewalls on top of the floor.
Monaco used to mount the sidewalls on the side of the frame where the dimensional tolerances of the chassis could be up to an inch or more off. Smaller screws held the sidewall to the side of the frame temporarily then a massive arc welder bead was hand apllied. welded the lower side wall to the side of the chassis. The sidewalls lower bar was dimensionally bigger to handle the weld as was pretty straight so the floor line visible externally looks ok. Not up and down too much but some and in and out of course.
Country coach and Foretravel and Pre Monaco Beavers mounted the sidewalls on top of the floor so the dimensions had to be nearly perfect. Look down the sidewalls at the floor line and realize its on top of the chassis not next to it.
Most sob's look like the waves in the ocean.
Secondly all the Monaco products bundled all their air lines and hydraulic hoses tightly in a bundle against one frame rail with heavy duty plastic Ty wraps. Non accessible ever again IMO.
Beaver when they used gillig chassis had the chassis bundle against the rail with non fail steel straps with padded inners. Huckbolted to the side rail.
Foretravel, country coach, prevost had a tray on top of the chassis under the floor that all the front to rear lines run in. If you lay in the storage bay of the cc and Foretravel you can look up and see the removeable cover that can be dropped down to access any cracked from age or use line or wire.
Commercial bus construction as the shell and components are long lived components but hoses some day will need replacing.
Running the defroster copper line in the tray adds to the amount of hot water reaching the dash area versus exposed in unheated un insulated bays.
Most sobs have a boost pump to increase the flow of antifreeze to the dash for this reason.
Most Monaco products were built over carpeting. Cabinets placed on top of the carpets so as the carpets compress the coach could squeak. Plus you cannot replace the carpeting as easily as you have to leave the under cabinet stuff there.
Sorry not a rear radiator fan in a big coach. The cooling air has to pass over the hot drivetrain parts before cooling the antifreeze and charge air and a/c radiators.
Runs hotter. Stay out of the southwest in the summer months if driving at full gvw up hill.
New multi slide coaches have gone back to the rear radiators to my old time service buddies dismay to sell the floor plan the customers want.
The floor was not insulated if memory serves me correctly in Monaco stuff. Two pieces of 5/8 plywood bolted to the top of the frame?
Last stage of the Monaco tour was where the roof was mounted to the sidewalls.
Giant clamps and spreaders were used to align the sidewalls for the roof install. Then welded again.
Foretravel and country coach normally did not need to winch the walls straight to attach the roof.
If you damaged the floor of a unihome or unicoach somehow the floor I suppose could be unbolted and replaced. Major project but its not welded.
The subframe structures that hold the axles and stuff in the Foretravel both front and rear are hinged on the front side and after passing over a bump swing up in an arc.
If memory serves me correctly the Monaco rear parts arms face forward into the thrust loads. In other words the Foretravels both face the rear. The Monaco rear faced forward.
No bushings in there suspension arms as I remember and when I asked Enoch Hutchcraft their engineering vp and an old drag racing buddy about this he laughed. Who cared?
Did not need to last that long. Customer needed to trade it in and buy a new one anyways.
First used coach we looked at was in Reno and a country coach intrigue. Tiara floor plan.
Total roach for external and internal condition but it drove perfectly and had no noises in the body on a 18 year old full timers coach.
Sikkens paint was bad and furniture worn through the paint on the utraleather furniture but the big parts were 100%.
The seller tried to alibi around all the non op and worn out stuff. I laughed and finally told him I was the sales manager that had ordered that coach new and had delivered it myself to Vegas. Same coach. Small world. My handwriting was on the original papers in the coach.....
I almost wish I did not know most of these differences and my product knowledge stopped about 1996 so if any later design changes occurred I may need to amend this post but this is what I remember personally.
The sobs work ok but if you particular and look very close and study enough and ask questions the differences are fairly major.
Non insulated compartment doors or metal on most sobs.
Looked at an older allure the other day and the non painted tan areas gel coat had really gone away. The graphics were painted and the lower compartments looked ok but the roof and non painted looked pretty bad. Not sure if it would buff out and most companies did not use as thick of gelcoat as the Foretravel I think.
You guys jog my memory about "why a Foretravel". Fun to think back. Even more fun to see all the old coaches being used and enjoyed still. They really were better made as I told customers. Makes my day.
Foretravel weigh closer to the same on both sides. Some other coaches floor plans have heavier sides on one side than the other so in a dip one side drops more than the other and may be noticeable in the coaches driving straight.
My 97 has unadjusted original Koni's that I am going to have readjusted to compensate for the wear but in severe repetitious dips with the soft shocks the coach dropped and rebounded identically on both sides. Less scary. Versus one side drop more than the other. Now that I mention it all of you will start noticing this I bet.
My shocks are I am sure set on #1 out of five settings. Going to set them at three and see. May need to exchange front to rear as the higher rear bag pressure means they may have not been as heavily worn as the fronts. They are good for around 250k miles and rebuildable after that. Commercial bus grade components and design. Or better.
Sorry for the long post and any errors are purely based on old age. Haha.
The other coaches are ok just not for the detail orientated old guys like me.
If I said anything libelous please delete this thread as it was not my intention to knock anyone's products. Just discussing how I remember they were made long ago.
I assume everyone else's sobs got better just when is unknown after I left the biz.
Bob
Bob,
Thanks for taking the time to write that great response! In one of my earlier posts, I said "This forum is a invaluable source of knowledge and ideas...". This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. We have people on this forum with literally decades of experience in the RV field, AND they are willing to share this knowledge with others. I, for one, learn something new almost every time I visit this site. My wife says I spend way too much time hanging out here, but I tell her I'm getting smarter with every visit. She laughs...
Just encourage Jeannie to get her own sign on and to spend some time on the site. Lots of us gals here ^.^d