Foretravel Owners' Forum

Noticed that we have no power in any of our electrical outlets while we are under way.  Plugged the DW's computer into the outlet to charge her battery while we were driving today and got no power.  Then checked numerous outlets and no power.  I looked at the prosine inverter screen with the engine running and it showed no in volts and no  volts out.  Both toggle switches were enabled.  What am I missing???  Thanks in advance for your input.

I'm not sure what "toggle" switches you are talking about. Assuming the inverter is turned on it should make no difference whether the engine is running or not. When you turn on the inverter the transfer switch should automatically switch from shore to inverter power. Either the transfer switch is not switching over, the inverter is whacky or the house baterries are too low to power the inverter. My guesses anyhow.

Roland

I was working on a coach and had same issue. It seems someone had installed one of the cables in front of reset switch. Moved that cable and reset switch- all is well

Also, when batteries get low, inverter can go into fault mode and need to be "reset" - i forget the procedure, but it is in the owners manual for the pro sine

Thanks guys - I have also noticed that when we unplug from shore power the ATS flutters about 7 or 8 times before it stops. On my List in the next day or two is to remove the cover on the ATS in the bedroom and check the contacts for wear.  Barry asked me to take pictures and send to him the part numbers for the contacts.

Tim - I will check my owners manual and try to reset.

Ernie - Can you be more specific?

Roland - I believe I misspoke.  I meant to say the rocker switches on the prosine control box in the kitchen.  I think the batteries are OK.

Thanks again for your input.

Did you check ground fault in  bathroom?Gam

You will have a different ATS for the inverter than the genset and shore power.  Look at the GFI first.

Did you check the 110VAC Circuit Breaker to the Inverter located under the bed? If it is OFF, everything on the inverter circuit will be off

Circuit breaker under the bed was our problem. Reset it and it has worked fine ever since.

Looked at the circuit breakers at the end of the bed and all are on.  Is there another breaker under the bed by the ATS?  Will look again.

GFI is OK.

Busy with family stuff today.  Will not get into until tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Sounds like it's the inverter.  Mine is a different beast, but sometimes you just have to do a reset on and it wakes up and starts working.  I'm not sure how a reset is done on a Prosine.

On our old Prosine, shore power over-rode inverter setting, so when there was shore power, the inverter/charger transferred to shore power, regardless of the inverter setting on the Prosine.  Our current Magnum works the same way.  My guess is that either you need to reset your Prosine, or it is kaput. 
I think that a full reset of the Prosine may require disconnecting it from the house batteries (the manual will have the procedure.) Fault Indications and Reset Procedures for the Prosine 2.5 Inverter (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/fault_indications_and_reset_procedures_for_the_prosine_2.5_inverter.html)

When I installed my inverter I put a 200-A fuse in the two battery leads to the inverter. Is there something like this in your circuit? You should have a wiring diagram in your manuals that would tell you how the inverter is wired. The current drawn by your inverter is pretty high so whatever they have is going to be big enough to carry that load.

Craig

We are getting volts to the inverter/convertor.  We have no out volts either when engine is running or when shore power is disconnected.  Breakers and GFI are OK. 

Dave - I have a call into a tech at the authorized repair facility in Seattle.  We shall see what they say.  Replacement thoughts?

Scott - quick question - did it work before and it doesn't now, or are you just now trying to plug in a 120V item to run off the inverter for the first time and discovering there isn't power to the outlets?

Which control interface do you have for the inverter - the regular one (columns of little rectangular lights that show you the power draw) or the ACS (LCD panel)?  I'm just trying to understand what "Both toggle switches were enabled" means.

What does the display show?  When you press "Inverter On/Off" on the control panel, do either the "standby" or the "invert" lights turn on?

Michelle

Hi Michelle - Carol My DW says that she has plugged in her computer power supply into an outlet b/4 and had power.

We have the LCD display.

The "invert" light blinks.  The display shows no volts OUT either when the engine is running or no shore power.  The display also shows volts IN when plugged in but nothing when the engine is running.

It appears that this started after we were having power problems, low volts in CG @ Albuquerque, NM.  At this same time the ATS under the bed began fluttering. 

The ATS under the bed transfers between what?

I also turned off and on the unit in the basement in an effort to reset.

Thanks for your interest and input.

For a "hard" reset I believe you have to remove the 12VDC to the inverter.

Roland

Scott - In our '03 the ATS under the bed is the transfer switch which has as inputs leg 2 AC power from the main (door-covered) breaker box that's powered by shoreline and the inverter output.  Ours is wired so shore-power is the primary source.

If you have the owner's box of info, it should be schematic A2700.25 or so.

Xantrex manual shows that it should go into "invert" when inverter is turned on (Inverter On/Off) and a DC power connection is made and a load is sensed.  Just in case, switch off and back on the 40 amp main breaker in the inverted circuit breaker box (sometimes breakers can look ok but are still tripped.  Intentionally cycling it eliminates that as a question).

Are you getting a fault code at all?  Here's the section of the manual that describes how to get it.

Manual is in the Files section here .  If it's the same as my copy, troubleshooting is around p. 86-88 or so.

Error Code Displays and What They Mean
Many types of faults are recognized by the Prosine inverter/charger. Should a recognized fault occur,
the fault LED will illuminate and an error code will be displayed. These error codes will override any
other menu items being displayed. The way in which this is done is different for the Standard Control
Panel and the Advanced Control System (ACS).
Control Panel
When the WARNING, FAULT, or TEMP LED is on, try to find what is causing the fault condition by
following these steps:
1. Press and hold the RESET button to display the error. It takes about five seconds before the code
displays.
2. Note the LEDs that illuminate to determine the 3-digit fault code, as in the example below.
3. Look up the error code in the Error Code Table to assist in troubleshooting the fault condition.
While the RESET button is pressed, the 3-digit number is displayed as follows:
1. The first digit is shown in the FAULT section, TEMP = 0, FAULT = 1, WARNING = 2.
2. The second digit is shown on the DC VOLTS bar graph, the bottom LED = 0, the second lowest
LED = 1, and so on to the top LED = 9.
3. The third digit is shown on the DC AMPS bar graph, the bottom LED= 0, the second lowest LED=
1, and so on to the top LED = 9.
When none of the FAULTS lights are on, pressing and holding the RESET switch will display the last
recorded fault.

Don't replace until you complete the diagnostics for your ATS and Prosine, but  I replaced our old Prosine with a Magnum MS-2012 (2 KW) and ME-ARC remote control.  Have been very happy with it.  Magnum is a US company and the units are made in the US and supported/repairable in the US.  They have an excellent reputation.

For your coach, you may want to install the MS-2812 (2.8 KW) instead of the 2kw unit.

Thanks Dave.  Will try a hard start - still waiting for a call from the Prosine tech.

Spoke with a Prosine tech./repair guy today.  Said it sounds dead to him.  He did suggest I do a hard start.  He shared that the Prosine is notorious for this type of failure.  He shared that the main problem is that when the company changed hands a number of years ago manufacturing was exported to China and with that change they lost quality control over some resisters and other electronic components while they maximized their profits.  He has repaired some of these units and said that maybe 2 out of 10 were successfully repaired.  He no longer repairs them as they are considered non-repairable by the manufacturer.  Said it's too bad they charge a big price for poor quality.  He suggested I replace it with the Magnum unit.  Looks like it will be about $2600.00+/- for the MS-2812 installed with the remote screen and a ME-SBC that is a smart battery controller.  Will look into that more.

Ebay has the magnum ms2812 for $1664.33 with free shipping Gam

i Marine has the 2812 for $1429, with free shipping.

Hey isn't it great that folks on the Forum shop around for the lowest price for YOUR equipment? :P

Roland

Thanks Bill I was going to order a 2812 from Ebay but it looks like you just saved me $235. Gam

Thanks guys - I'll take a look at both of those options.

Yes Roland - It is nice.  Our Roland is still working great.  Thanks again. ;D

I contacted the authorized repair facility in Seattle - 1660+/- for the unit, 165+/- for the remote screen and 85/hr to install - 3 to 4 hours = 2080.00.  I always overestimate costs.  I haven't looked at it close enough to determine if I can install.

Depending on available space and cable lengths, the Magnum should be a direct replacement for your Prosine, and should use the same remote cable.  If you are comfortable being an electrician, you shouldn't have much trouble.  Ours was much heavier than the old Prosine 2kw, however, so if the Prosine isn't mounted on the floor, there may be mounting issues. 

Hi Dave - Our Prosine is mounted on the forward bulkhead on the passenger side in the middle basement compartment.  Due to size, it does not appear that I can mount it there.  I may have to remove the Joey bed/basement slideout and mount it to the floor which means I may need some new cables.  Nice to hear that the existing remote wiring will work.  That will save me from pulling out the old wiring harness and feeding the new.  The Magnum unit installation instructions seem straight forward and relatively easy.  I think I can do it but with all new things I would prefer to see it done first b/4 I attack.  The tech I talk to said the total install is 3 to 4 hours.  That means 4 to 6 for me.  We shall see.  Hard start this AM then will go on from there.

good luck and send pictures!

I love the magnum, too bad it doesn't fit where the prosine fits - hope my prosine keeps chugging along....

If I have to replace the Prosine I will take pics of all stages.  Will not happen until after to 10th of July when we will be back in Gig Harbor for 6 to 8 weeks (summer location).

Update - We replaced the Prosine inverter with the Magnum MS 2812 today.  Sorry got so caught up in the process I didn't get pics.  Carol is a great help with these installs as I sometimes have a hard time understanding what the directions say.  As with most things that I am encountering with this coach the fear of the project causes some mental paralysis until I get into it and get going.  The install was a snap and the 2812 fit into the same spot that the Prosine occupied. Secured the new unit to the front bulkhead with 6, 1/4" bolts using fender washers to dissipate the force of the fastener.  The hardest thing was removing all of the stuff and the 2 slide out trays from the center bays so I could get to the batteries to find out what they were and what the cranking power is for the charging part of the set up.  It is amazing how much heavier the Magnum is than the Prosine.  I called Dave K after the install to check set up for the ARC 50 remote.  What a wonderful resource and friend he has been to us.  He suggested some changes to the default settings and explained some electrical/battery stuff to me.  I also called Magnum a couple of times and they were most helpful. Success - we now have power to our outlets when we are not connected to shore power or when the generator is on.  Just one more reason to remain happy campers.  Love this forum and all of you that have helped us thus far in our Foretravel journey.  We couldn't be doing it without you.  By the way since we replaced the Prosine 2.0 with the 2812 we also have more power - what ever that means.  ^.^d   

MUCH cheaper to have over/under voltage protection like Progressive Industries EMS than to repair damage from bad campground electricity.  Every coach needs one, as no one can manually protect against small voltage changes that move out of normal.

We just experienced our first HIGH voltage situation in a Conneaut Ohio campground.  During the night electricity on one leg would get above 132 volts and our EMS was on duty to disconnect power.  It happened on several nights.  During the day power was great.

We also have the Progressive 50 at the pedestal.  I always check the voltage b/4 I plug in.  I am convinced that our problems were aggravated by poor power - high and low voltage during a recent stay in Albuquerque. 

Every coach should have a "Kill A Watt" unit, too. While they are advertised mostly as a way to monitor the cost of using an appliance (power costs) they excel on a coach because they will tell you the exact frequency (in Hz) of your generator so you can adjust it if needed. I used mine to determine that the BluRay and the HDTV together both used less than 50 watts of AC power (which meant that we could run them both on a cigarette lighter plugin inverter which typically costs about $25).

Craig

Thanks Craig - have read about the Kill a watt but don't know too much about it yet.  Will have to look closer.