Left coach in storage for two weeks , everything switched off , isolator switch at door to off , knew something was wrong when remote would not unlock doors !
Switched boost on ( lit up ) dash lights came on but nothing when I tried to start !
Should I be looking for circuit breaker ? All battery's can't be flat ??
Try using the booster switch to start the generator, after warming it up try starting the coach with generator running. It is my experience the rocker switch at the door does not fully de-energize the 12v system. Thus, after prolonged storage will result in dead battery(ies). My solution is to install the heavy duty battery off/on switch found in most good marine hardware stores. Be sure you use heavy enough cabling (IE 03 cable and proper sized lugs).
Basement lights just glowing , so suspect battery's are flat , don't understand how with isolator switch off ? Bigger problem how do I start generator to charge everything
The switch near the door is sometimes called a "Master Switch" or "Salesman's Switch." It does not turn everything off. It turns off lots of stuff connected to the house batteries, but not everything. It turns off nothing connected to the chassis batteries. There will be drains on all the batteries unless you disconnect cables.
You may be able to jump start the generator from an automobile battery. Generator starts from house batteries (someone will correct me if I am wrong). Run jumper cables to house batteries and start the generator. You may need to leave the cables in place for a while because the batteries will suck a lot of the power. Leave the automobile running until you get the generator started or you may discharge it as well. After the generator is running, you will need to engage the "Boost" switch to charge the chassis batteries as well as the house batteries. It will take several hours to get back to full charge.
If you have 120 VAC at the storage facility, you might prefer to plug in the coach or use an external battery charger to bring things back to life.
No , power available at store age , friend has a small Honda generator , thought I might plug coach into that ??
Not sure of the gerarators output 30a ??
Two banks of battery's , one set rear end passenger side , other set forward on drivers side . Not sure which is coach / chassis
The chassis batteries are on the passenger side rear. The house batteries are on the drivers side near the front.
Two weeks isn't enough to run battery's down with everything off.What dose dash Gage read with ignition on and boost switch off?How about with ignition on and boost switch on?GAM
Good question , didn't check ! Coach new to us so forgot to check
That will probably work. Get appropriate adapters and plug the coach shore power connection into the generator. The converter (charger) on the coach should charge the batteries. If it trips breakers on the "little" generator, you'll need to take some different actions.
Make sure you have appropriate adapters hooked up properly. Improperly wired adapters can be dangerous and break things. You may have appropriate adapters on board.
Don't try to run the air conditioners while hooked to the "little" generator. Try to put minimal load on the generator. Leave the "Boost" switch engaged in order to charge the chassis batteries as well as the coach batteries.
That was my thinking , turn boost switch on , everything in coach off , then let portable generator charge battery's . I have a 50a to 30a adaptor but unsure of connection on portable Honda ?
The very first thing to try is starting the generator with boost switch per Larry suggestion above. Next try charging batteries via jumper cable or portable generator.
If it's a Honda 2000 you need to set the power share on the inverter/charger to 10 amps. You'll need a 15 amp to 50 amp adapter(if they make one) or a 15a to 30a with a 30A to 50A - they are something you'll need to get eventually anyway.
Or, if you have one, use a separate battery changer - the kind you find at Sears for cars. You just need to charge the house batteries enough to get main generator going. Honda 2000 will only put out 2000 watts for short period; 1600 watts is the steady state rating which is only 13 amps.
I imagine if the coach is in storage it might be hard to get jumper cables to reach the batteries.
If the 2003 is like my 2002, there are 2 - 12 volt plugs at the dash. One is connected to the house batteries and the other to the start/motor batteries. Good place to take readings to see what voltage is in each set.
I'd focus on getting the starting battery bank up to speed in order to start your generator. That is your key to recovery. Using the Boost switch to put all the dead batteries together is not likely to get either bank charged very fast. But as soon as you can get the coach generator started, then you can use all the fancy tools that are onboard to do the charging of both sets (with the boost switch on, if you don't have a Trik-l-start or other connection between the two).
Does the coach or chassis battery's start generator ?
Do you guys use isolator s on battery's when stored ?
Do I have a problem if it discharges in 2 weeks ?
Brad,
Maybe 2002/2003 units are different but usually the generator starts from the house batteries, not the chassis.
Real unusual for all batteries to be dead. Is the BOOST Solenoid working ? can you here a click when you flip the boost switch ? If not try jumping across the terminals on the boost solenoid. Then start
What is voltage at each battery bank ? Use a VOM to check, anything above 12 .0 Should start generator at least and possibly engine.
Generator should start from House batteries. You can use a battery charger if you can reach the batteries with cables.
Gary B
Somedays I can write clearly...others, not so much. Whatever gets the generator started is what I meant. I haven't gotten to need to check which starts mine, but I believe the House Battery does the work. My poorly stated point was just that getting the generator going was the #1 priority...as I see others have stated.
Frankly, I would not expect either bank to die that fast...let alone both...unless the boost switch was on, as well as something else.
Does the coach or chassis battery's start generator ? House (coach) on all the units I know of.
Do you guys use isolator s on battery's when stored ? Yes, but as mention earlier it won't stop all loads. Even with a switch at the battery(that will stop all loads) there will still be self-discharging over time. It's a matter of how long you want to leave it and how many parasitic loads there might be.
Do I have a problem if it discharges in 2 weeks ? Not necessarily, you need to find out what loads there are when stored. But you could have a bad battery pulling the rest down. I believe heat will accelerate self-discharge as well.
Boost switch was off , saleman switch off , can't think of anything left switched on
Temps in boulder 86f - 97f for last two weeks
I had a freaky condition happen (I think it was my 1990), in that one of the House battery terminals actually rotted off the battery. So do check the cable connections AT THE BATTERIES. Just some odd ideas.
All ideas welcome
I would go and get a portable charger. Connect up the house batteries to the charger adn then try to get the generator to start. You can then use that to charge up both banks. Some stuff is not shut off at the 12 volt switch. I had that issue in my storage place with no power. I put on three solar panels and solved the issue that way.
I just checked the wiring diagram for our 1997 coach. The generator starts from the house batteries rather than the chassis batteries.
As others have suggested, check all connections and check voltages to know that state of things. I suggest that if you can get shore power, even 15 amps, do that. Fifteen amperes at 120 VAC can provide 100 amperes of charging current at ~14 VDC. The draw may trip a 15 amp breaker. Fortunately, I've not had the experience of dealing with dead batteries on the Foretravel (yet!).
I like John S's suggestion of a portable charger on the house batteries to "bootstrap" the system.
Some options include:
using jumper cables to the house batteries to get the generator started;
putting an external charger on the house batteries long enough to get the generator started;
using jumper cables and a GOOD 12 VDC source to start the big engine in order to drive to a 50A pedestal;
pulling one or more batteries and taking them to a charging station, then "bootstrapping" by getting the generator started.
Anybody recommend good isolator switch
May try jumper leads to coach battery's in morning , anything I should be aware of ?
Is it just parallel connections to booster battery then try start generator ?
There are a few things to consider, especially if this is a fairly new-to-you coach. The electronics surrounding the engine and transmission do have a draw while "off". If the air leveling system was on, it might have used a lot of juice turning on the 12 volt compressor over a 2 week period. Occassionally, my 2002's compressor would go on and stay on. I think that is a common complaint. Lowering/Dumping the air in the coach and then parking it is what I generally do, and then if I am not going to be around the coach for a while, I turn the compressor off with the switch the FT tech told me to add (I used to just pull the fuse). I have left the coach parked in outside storage where it was safe to leave the auto-start on for the generator. I was kind of surprised at how much it actually came on during the month it had to sit there while construction was going on at the house. Two weeks seems a short time to discharge everything...but it is possible.
hope you get things going. for your information foretravels like to be plugged in.
and even if they are plugged in, the boost should be turned on at least once a week
for 24 hours to charge the chassis batteries, or you can install a trik-l-start which will
keep the chassis batteries charged. there are just too many parasitic draws on the
batteries to leave the coach without power. the only other option is disconnecting
battery cables or install enough solar to do the job.
Right after we bought ours, we went to a wedding and had all the ventilators turned on. We came back to the coach and found engine and house batteries dead. Isolator had been mis-wired and drained both.
I just connected a set of jumpers from our toad to the engine batteries, put a small stick into the throttle linkage and let it run for about 15-20 minutes. Engine started quickly and then started the generator a few minutes later.
When isolators are replaced it's easy to make a mistake if you don't label the cables before you pull them. Photo is a good reference also. Took me an hour of scratching my head before I found what the last owner had done.
Pierce
(Reference: Isolator incorrectly wired by previous owner)
It is truly amazing how normal it appears that some folks are hell bent on out dumbing themselves when it comes to electric wires, :o :o
My guess: Mommy told boy wonder how brilliant he was and he believed it. :(
Jimmy,
Remember to leave the generator auto-start on from now on. If your storage location doesn't permit this, find another location that either allows this or has power available.
When I store my coach I turn off the 24 volt switch, plug in to a 30 amp plug and put on small amp battery charger on the start batteries. I never turn on the auto for the gen. Coach is always ready to go. Put a switch on the aux compressor and I also turn it off when in storage. Coach always sits level in storage but both air tanks will eventually leak down. My coach is inside an enclosed warehouse. DAN
24v switch ??
Did you ever get reading on battery voltages?Gam
No , heading over to store age this morning , will check then try to start generator
When you get everything charged up I would suggest you do the following.
1. Put an ammeter on each battery bank in turn with the coach set up for storage. Look at your amp draw on both sets. This will let you know how long the coach can sit. To work this out it's 1/2 the amp hours of the battery bank divided by the reading of the ammeter to give you how many hours the coach can sit plugged in. 50% is the absolute minimum to discharge to prevent deep cycling.
2. Go to any good marine store and, as suggested before, purchase two disconnects. They MUST be rated for more than the maximum draw that they will encounter. Heaviest is the starter motor. Or you can just disconnect the batteries each time.
3. Install a solar panel!
Keith
Wasn't able to check voltages before yard owner arrived with jump leads and got generator started . Now thinking of ways to isolate battery's or allow gen to run on auto ?
Like the idea of the disconnects any ideas on current rateing
Glad you got the generator started. The auto-start (for future) will make the generator come on for a period of time once the voltage drops to a certain level. I *think* they are usually set to come on at 12.3 V. It will run for a period, then shut itself off, awaiting another self-check to see if it needs to come back on. If similar to my 2002, you will find the auto-start unit under the floor in your compartment below the drink tray. Since it is a new-to-you coach, you may want to check to see that someone hasn't changed its settings. I'm sure that our units are likely described on one of Barry's pages.
Foretravel Luxury Motorcoaches (http://foretravel.com/Q&A/view-section.php?section=Generator%20General)
generator_auto_start_on_foretravel_motorhome_rv (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/generator-auto-start.html)
Having the Boost Switch off should serve to isolate the two battery banks, as its role is to combine them temporarily when needed for a boost. Battery switches, to completely disconnect the batteries, are another issue...and a "mechanical isolator" as opposed to the standard "electrical isolator".
Brett Wolfe has always recommended Perko PERKO Inc. - Battery Switches - Medium Duty Battery Disconnect Switch (http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/battery_switches/product/150/)
Here's more from Barry on the Boost switch. Boost Switch (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/boost_switch.html)
I experienced an alternator failure (the regulator died and there was no output) in Ohio and was able to drive on to Kearney, NE by running the generator and having the boost switch on as Barry describes.
BTW, I was first alerted to the alternator problem by my VMSpc voltage gauge that showed the voltage dropping (A VMS is a really good investment for this and many other reasons. I think they are $395, and a computer is needed), so I just turned on the generator and the boost switch and there was no stress or issue. I could have safely driven all the way home to AZ.
But don't leave the generator in auto-start mode if you store in a fully-enclosed structure or if you don't have a means to pipe the exhaust out of the building.
Just trying to under stand. You never got voltage readings. So there can be some other problem then dead battery's. If they are dead they went dead in two weeks in storage. If everything is turned off shouldn't charge last longer then two weeks ,and if the boost switch was off how can both sets be dead?Something is wrong but I don't think the problem is two weeks in storage without a charge. I have gone 2 months in storage without a charge or a problem.Gama
Totally agree , but unsure where to start
Do the majority believe leaving a gen-set in auto-start, when the coach is un-attended, is wise?
Clean all the coach and engine battery cables and battery terminals and use a dielectric grease afterwards.
Did you have the inverter switched off while in storage? Those things have a fairly high idle current.
Things like the inverter, TV antenna boost (if so equipped), compressor and even the propane and cO sensors are not governed by the "Salesmans Switch" can draw enough amps to flatten less than optimum batteries in two weeks. Since it is a new to you coach, try to learn all of the systems and I think you will find that not everything was turned off as one would get it.
The best bet is the battery disconnect that Brett recommends. Then you know nothing will sneak up and drain your batteries.
Solar is also a good option for long term outdoor storage. I would never leave the generator autostart on in an unattended coach. Too many bad things can happen. IMHO
Kent, I think the first thing I would do is disconnect all the batteries,charge them to full charge and check the voltage ,let them rest for 12 hrs and check the voltage again and have them load tested, if these are the original batteries they could be close to the end of life.
My generator is always on auto start, attended or not. The only problem I've ever had happened when I had taken it off auto while I was in the coach. I lost power at the pedestal and I didn't notice it until I had run down the house batteries. You can always have a generator problem I guess, but that is what regular maintenance and operation is for.
The dead battery problem continues , I was only able to run generator for about 3 hours then was unable to get back for 10 days , and everything dead again .
I plan to disconnect neg terminals until I can install disconnect switches , what gauge cable / lugs should I use to connect switches
Previously had been able to to start gen by jump leads from truck to house batteries , mid trying to sort the dead battery problem I had to travel to Tennessee to stay with ill relative , now back home and again everything dead .
Tried jump leads but gen had two weak attempts at starting then nothing !!
Can't even get gen door open to check. Reset .
Looked in electric bay and no lights anywhere ?
Sorry to come on to you guys again but sitting here feeling lost .
Jimmy,
Recharge the house battery bank. You can use an external charger if you have 120 VAC. You can also pull another vehicle up next to the battery compartment and use jumper cables. Hold charging vehicle RPM around 1200-1500 for quicker charge.
Do this until you have enough juice to start the on-board generator.
Make sure your inverter/charger is set to max charge rate (it is programmable-- usually called "power share").
Once fully charged, have the batteries load tested. Then find the draw.
Brett
Don't seem to have any power in coach ?
No lights work and can't get door to generator open the power latch won't operate ( want to check reset on gen as it won't even try now )
Brett
Thanks for the quick response , I managed to get a jump from a huge salvage truck , reset and started the generator and now charging . Thanks agin
Is there a min level on diesel tank when generator shuts down ( still running at moment )
Yes, less than 1/4 tank, about 1/8 tank, different fuel pick up higher in tank than engine pick up
The saga of battery's continues , travelled to utah and stayed at campground plugged in for 3 days with charger switched on , it flicked over to ready after 20 -24 hours , unplugged today to move to site with no power and battery's dropped from 13.75 to 11.5 within 5mins auto gen kicked in then back off 10 mins later .
Rang lifeline for advice , he said because they went flat he suspects all three are junk , replacement is $700 each .
Also suggested start battery's same , estimate $4200
Sitting here in total shock
I am a rookie at motorhomes but have experience in battery business. I would suggest to check each battery individually with a hydrometer if you can locate one and battery allows access to electrolyte, if not use digital voltmeter. 12 volts on digital meter is dead. 12.6 is fully charged (except AGM which is around 12.8 volts fully charged). If you have a bad battery in the set it can draw all the others down. Check the connections for loose or dirty condition. If you have batteries with stud terminals don't check voltage on the stud, check at lead pad the stud is in. When charging don't connect charger to stud on terminals, most studs are stainless steel and conduct poorly. If you have time, charge at 10 amps to minimize heat. If batteries are low on electrolyte (plates exposed to air) add distilled water never add battery acid. Good Luck!
I forgot to add hydrometer readings, 1260 is charged, deviations of more than 30 points ( for example: 1260 to 1230) battery is defective. In my opinion hydrometer is the gold standard in determining state of charge. Volt meters are fine if battery has set for 12 hours minimum after charging.
AGM so sealed , I think , going to try find a Rv dealer or truck service that can check them , nearest city is salt lake , was heading to park city
If you have lifeline batteries and they have been totally discharged, will probably not be any good at least that has been my experience. They are good batteries, but can not be totally discharged and then come back to life
Think that's the problem , feel like a total fool , my own very costly ignorance
If it is any consolation, you may be able to get by with 2 chassis batteries. That is what FT puts into the 2002 U270s even tho there is room for 3 in my chassis bay. I haven't experienced any need for more in the 8 years I've had the coach. Given the more energy-efficient items (LCD/LED TVs, replacement LED lights), even less storage is actually needed.
The Optima starting batteries are around $187 each on Amazon.
Brad
Thanks for that , just feel such a fool , kept meaning to disconnect neg lead but had family issues that kept me out of town and mind occupied . The immediate issue is to find an dealer around Salt Lake City
Think it's time to hit the jack Daniels
Optima Red Top 34 is $146.99 and free shipping on Amazon from TRU Motorsports. No good 8D prices there, tho.
The positive is you'll have new batteries and many trouble-free years ahead of you. If they were original, it likely was their time to go anyway (10 years+).
That's the worst part , only 3 years old , arrrrr
After a month with this problem, am wondering how serious the need is to resolve it.
No meter, no testing / trouble shooting, I hope I am missing something.
Yes , a number of serous family problems that forced my attention elsewhere .