Hello!
The subject install was today. Very pleased with it. The carpentry work is not complete but the Fridge works fine. We got it from Sea Freeze of America of Bellingham, WA - Sea Freeze of America - Price List (http://seafreezeinc.com/price.shtml)
It's an AC/DC system. If it senses AC it uses it - if not it uses DC. Very pleased with the owner Dave here.
All fridges are made to order.
A few photos are attached.
best, paul
Paul, what are the eye bolts in the 2x4s for??
JohnH
Cold plate refrigeration is probably the ideal way to go. But not cheap. I'm still trying to decide how to do this. I like the 2x4x. :))
Craig :)
Paul, would you mind posting the 'spec's' on this unit and why you chose this one over the others in their line or those of others? thanks, ron
(I do believe holding plate systems are extremely beneficia for energy reasonsl.)
The 2 by 4's were just to get us on the road. In other words a temporary installation. We'll do the final install when we get back to the SF Bay Area in September.
It was a good thing we did it this way. That is, had the Foretraval where we had a clear idea of how to restrain the fridge for travel.
Even better we discovered we would not have to raise the fridge up 5 inches to clear the existing utilities along the outside wall.
Thid means we'll have a 12 in high storage area above the fridge and a 10 in wide vertical storage area to the left of the fridge. Both of which will be easier to get at than the previous under the Dometic.
All in all we're very pleased. If I had it to do over again I'd make it a bit wider (what we have is 2 in deeper than stock). It's about 12.1 cf now or about the same as the Dometic. We could have made it 3 in wider and still able to fully open the doors.
The Danfoss compressor is very quiet by the way.
Best, paul
that 10" on the side is about what I had when putting the residential fridge in ours. So now you can put a nice slide out pantry cupboard in like I did. Your wife would love it as we do . Good use of that space.
John H
I picked this one because it was the largest one - and even then I had it made 2 in deeper.
I chose the seperate compressor because the self contained one reduced the fridge cf and projected out the back and would have reduced the cf/depth to enable clearance from the rear wall. The compressor I selected is about 7 by 20 in plan.
I chose Sea Freeze because I was convinced Dave was at the top of the game. Just yesterday David told me he made a 30ft long fridge for Boeing to store wings in and prevent embrittlement. It saves Boeing $26K a month in dry ice.
But you're familiar with boat fridge things. I picked David because he makes fridges to fit the customer not the other way 'round.
best, paul
At the top they go thru a piece of 1x3 oak and keep the fridge from sliding out as we travel. When I saw the fridge I realized this was not necessary as the fridge has flanges to enable screws to secure the fridge. The lone eye bolt low on the right side was just an old engineer's conservatism ;o)
The finished construction will use screws thru the flanges - and a lot less 2x4's ;o)
In the meantime I have no concern the fridge will start walking around the FT.
besr, paul
Some specs:
Door locks are restaurant grade. Built to last 1000's of closings. You close the doors by slamming them. Door locks can be adjusted as the flexible seal ages.
The Danfoss compressor is the gold standard for this kind of fridge.
Two runs of copper tubing from the fridge to the compressor unit. You can detach the tubing and included check valves prevent loss of R134A refrigerant. The condenser is air cooled by small fans.
The sensor in the freezer sets the temperature. You control the refrigerator temp with a fan in the fridge on or off and by having having the resulting air flow from the fan restricted or not. I'm learning how that works. Right now I have 15F/42F
The depth of our fridge is 23.5. Doors are 2.5 for a total of 26 in. Still plenty of room in the hall. Both doors open all the way. Width is 25.5 (plus metal flanges to secure fridge). Height is 64.5in.
Food can be stored on shelves and the door.
best, paul
Another possible solution to the refrigerator dilemma is shown on an interesting post with pictures in the Classic Winnebagos and Antique RV's (I still own one) forum by a guy (gadgetman) who retrofitted his propane fridge to cold plate. He says it can be done on any residential style electric or propane fridge without removing it. Not having to remove doors or a window to swap units is a big plus. Don't know if it is cost effective (around $1200) but if your box is still good and you're going solar why not? What do you guys think? Worth discussing? Converting 110v House Refrigerator to Solar Power! (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=6180.0)
Jerry
Outstanding installation, a lifetime highly efficient refrigerator. I was really excited to see this as Paul mentioned this in a prior discussion. Guess if you want the factory look you can always have some walnut panels joined up and run through the shaper for the raised panel edges. Sounds like the doors will take the weight with no problem. Where did you end up locating the compressor?
Guess Boeing is using that refrig to store their epoxy prepregs?
Jerry
[/quote]
This was pretty throughly hashed out in a prior thread and the general consensus is that it's certainly possible to do so. The problem with the older Dometics, though, is usually the lack of a functional latching system and doors that are very hard to get to seal well consistently. Another factor is the box can be made significantly deeper as no need for burner system, air clearance etc. Sounds like Paul has these issues whipped.
Thanks, Chuck!
And I picked black as the door color not even realizing it matched the color of the other appliances in the kitchen until Kathleen pointed it out to me (phew! I dodged THAT bullet ;o)
I saved the wood from the Dometic and before I lucked out on my color choice I thot I'd put it back on the doors. It's pretty enuf to find a use for it.
Right now the doors project into the hall almost 4 in from the existing woodwork. I'd planned to raise the fridge up so it could clear the utilities along the outside wall and move the fridge back towards it in the final install. But another happy accident is having the fridge base just an inch above the floor means there's more usable storage above the fridge. (Starting with Kathleen I'm certainly the luckiest guy I know.)
The compressor unit is in the 10 in space to the left of the fridge. Its heat goes quickly up and out the existing fridge vent. It does not touch the fridge. The highest part of the compressor unit is 5 in below the ceiling. This position allows access to it at eye level.
All in all everything appears to be industrial strength.
There's no barrier from the outside as there was with the Dometic install. Just yesterday I put screening on the access panel to stop the mosquito feast inside. (We are right next to the river in Twisp, WA.) Every mosquito I killed had a LOT of blood in it. (I wonder where they get the blood ;o)
But I'm not sure what to do about the possibility of weather (water) getting in thru the access panel. Any suggestions?
best, paul
This was pretty throughly hashed out in a prior thread and the general consensus is that it's certainly possible to do so. The problem with the older Dometics, though, is usually the lack of a functional latching system and doors that are very hard to get to seal well consistently. Another factor is the box can be made significantly deeper as no need for burner system, air clearance etc. Sounds like Paul has these issues whipped.
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295 36'[/quote]
--
"When you arise in the morning, think of
what a precious privilege it is to be alive...
to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."
~ Marcus Aurelius
Water in access panel - it can be an issue
I put in the Haier residential refrigerator, and two days later a BIg rain came along, and I suspect the wind was blowing it into the access rent via the holes in that vent -
Got up and the refrigerator controls kept "flickering" which could only be reset by unplugging the refrigerator and plugging it back in. WOuld run for a while, but when you opened the door, the problem would recur (probably because the voltage changed to the ECU for the unit as the interior light came on.
Opened up back and saw the water on back of unit, running down. crap, now Iv'e done it - ruined my new refrigerator!
Left access panel open, and shut of refrigerator for two hours. Dried out nicely, plugged back in refrigerator, and all systems normal, no issues since. Whew!
Went to Home Depot, got a furnace filter slightly larger than opening for access door and shoved it into the space. So far so good, I am thinking that any water is captured by the filter if it rains hard and ultimately doesn't get to the control ECU which must be in the bottom of the refrigerator.
Not a very elegant solution, but was cheep and expedient. Looking for a better solution to this issue as well.
Thanks, Tim!
I went out and looked at my panel. The holes in it are horizontal and at the top of each of the panel's horizontal "groves." So it looks like the panel was designed so rain coming straight down would not be a problem. Wind blown rain is another matter.
I do want a free flow of air into the panel. Perhaps adding a "lip" at the top of each grove would defeat most wind blown rain.
Or get a second panel. Seal it and make it the bad weather panel.
best, paul
--
I think I may have an easy solution to this "wind blown rain issue" and will test it out before reporting.
Will Let you know asap
John H
Thanks Chuck,
Looks like the conversion would be more trouble than it's worth. Plus a much larger capacity in the same space is also a big advantage.
Paul,
Thanks for all the details and pictures of your installation and working out all of the problems associated with it. With a lot us going solar I believe we will see more of these in RV's in the future and maybe the costs associated with them will come down. I believe Norcold was bought out by Thetford and they have a new design with a Danfoss compressor on the 7.0 cu. foot model. I really like the idea of operating on solar and not having to be level to run it. http://www.thetford.com/HOME/Products/NorcoldRefrigeratorsHome/DE0061EV0061/tabid/197/Default.aspx (http://www.thetford.com/HOME/Products/NorcoldRefrigeratorsHome/DE0061EV0061/tabid/197/Default.aspx)
Jerry
The Norcold's capacity is 2CF less than the Nova Kool RFU 9000 Nova Kool RFU9000 Marine and RV Refrigerator - AC / DC (http://baymarinesupply.com/store/refrigeration/marine-rv-refrigerators-icemakers/nova-kool-rfu9000-marine-rv-refrigerator.html) while the overall dimensions are very similar. Novakool also uses a Danfoss compressor... This is the one that we are looking at.
Don
OK, so now lets see what you all think about this idea.
I cut strips about 22" long and 1 1/2" wide from a sheet of thin alum' and shaped it to fit neatly over the moulded vent on the back of cover. I fit it to just cover the little nipples that are fractionally below the top edge then ran a bead of caulking along to hold and seal any water from intruding. The first picture is of the strip, the second with it bent to suit, the third and fourth are with it fitted, and the last I put a bead of silicone caulking along the bottom edge so it both holds the strip in place and also stops water from leaking between the plastic and strip. You can make it wider to protect even more but as I do not have this problem I am happy with a 1" height increase of baffle.
So comments??
Don,
A lot more interior space in approximately the same dimensions for about the same price. Excellent! I like the freezer compartment on the bottom, low battery protection, and made for the marine environment.
Thanks,
Jerry
Well now it is finished putting the "baffles" on so hopefully (Paul and Tim) this will work for you. Simple fix.
John H
ps Tim, you can cut small strips of the filter mesh and fit them in each slot now if you want more protection!!
Thanks, John.
It looks good.
best, paul
John,
Looks good, will give your solution a try, Thanks!
We boondocked last night and I'm trying to get a rough idea of the amp-hrs our new fridge burns.
In 7 hrs 4% was burned. The Link 2000 had just switched from 3% to 4% at 6am so maybe the 4% is reasonably accurate. I had turned off all I could at night but some part of the 4% was not fridge related.
4% of 765 is 30.6 amp hrs. Or an average of 30.6/7 = 4.4 amps. Assuming the average non-fridge amp is 1 per hour then the fridge is averaging about 3.4 amps/hr. I'd seen a website (not Sea Freeze) that claimed a Danfoss compressor burned 2.5 amps/hr at an ambient of 73F. It's warmer than that in these parts so the 3.4 amps/hr is in the right direction.
I realize this is approximate.
One unknown is the actual capacity of the Lifelines. They are rated at 255 but their actual current capacity is unknown. I'm not sure how the 4% is calculated, but I would think it's based on a known number of amp-hrs burned. If so, then the 30.6 is correct regardless of the actual capacity of the batteries.
best, paul
Forgot to add guys that you can cut small pieces for the vents (either side of big removable one) and caulk them in place for 100% protection.
Paul. once you get solar installed and the Tri star meter you will be able to see exactly what values you have used regardless of the state of charge of batteries (if I am not mistaken as I have not bothered with this feature yet) Adding a Tri metic panel will also help you.
John
I had already put a barrier there as part of my mosquito defence ;o)
best, paul
We'll arrive at AM Solar this Tuesday. Install on Wednesday.
I have a Kill A Watt coming in to AM Solar and am hoping to use it to get an idea of how much energy our new fridge uses.
Not having seen it, I assume the Kill A Watt measures AC only. Since the Danfoss compressor unit is DC I assume the energy used by the fridge would be less than I'll measure when it runs on DC.
The Danfoss compressor is a treat. It's quiet and not even behind a panel yet and the best way to tell if it's on it to put your hand on it to see if there's any vibrations.
I check the temps remotely. Right now at 8p it's down to 78F outside and no AC all day. So the fridge had no help from AC today. It's temps just now are 14F/39F.
As I mentioned earlier, the temp that's controlled via a common dial setting is the freezer temp. That takes a bit of getting used to.
The fridge temp is adjusted/controlled by a fan being ON or OFF. When the fan is ON it blows down into a shallow duct at the back of the fridge (the duct is about 1 inch deep, 12 inches high and somewhat less than the width of the fridge). The exit at the bottom of the duct can be OPEN or CLOSED. And of course, I also have recourse to changing the dial setting for the freezer.
If you're a technoid like me, all in all it's pretty sweet. Kinda like my first MBZ, but a lot less $$$...
But my engineering award for the year goes to Gillette. I picked up a pack of throwaway razors at Costco and am impressed. I usually don't shave until my beard is pretty long but these puppies don't clog or blink. I've been using the first one for 3 months now! I'll bet the engineer that designed these is looking for a job ;o)
More later...
best, paul
You are correct... the KAW only measures AC. You plug it into a wall socket and then plug the appliance into the KAW.
Craig
You can use a clamp on DC ammeter to measure the current draw for the refrigerator. The KAW that I have is designed for 120VAC+- 60Hz+- only. The folk at AM Solar will have a suitable meter and will know exactly what to measure.
Paul, say hi from me to Dave, Debbie and Greg. Great people and a nice quiet camp site behind, with great facilities
John haygarth
My first reading with the Kill A Watt of fridge electric usage is 1.27 kwhr over 35 hrs = 36 watts per hour or an average of 3 amps per hour (if I did the calcs a right). Theoretically a bit less when the fridge runs on DC.
Ambient temp averaged in the low 70s.
best, paul