Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: LI_Pets on July 23, 2013, 08:01:40 am
Title: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 23, 2013, 08:01:40 am
Hi been looking for a MH time to get away from our TT.
Looking at Newmar & Tiffin
Now these.
With a budget of 50-75K what years can be had?
Also what do the different model "U" signify? it looks like a $50K difference between each model
U 320 U 295 U 270
I would also like to know what lengths they were made?
I prefer shorter over longer
tks
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Dave Cobb on July 23, 2013, 09:11:18 am
Welcome to the forum.
For all there might be to know, look at links, Barry Alarm, Tech., Brochures and Specs @ this link: Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs)
The short answer is the U number tells us the model, I.E. 225, 240, 280, and 300. In about 1995, the 270, 295, and 320. As the number increases so do the standard features and load carry rating changed in the earlier years up to the introduction of the Uicoach. You changed your original question to the later 95/96 year numbers, 270, 295, 320.
Lengths for those models, which became more trim levels run from 34', 36', 38', 40', and 42'.
Barry's site will show the U number by years, and the floor plans and lengths that were produced.
To add some more confusion, know that Foretravel would custom build any thing that you might want. So you will find unique coaches with not the standard interior woods, or features usually only on the higher numbered spec. sheet. Like a normal 320 has Aqua Hot, and walnut, but was speced oak from the 270 list and without Aqua Hot. Or a 270 speced with the Aqua Hot upgrade only found on 320's.
Ask all your questions, there are many members with extensive knowledge or experience from having a number of Foretravels and models over the years.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 23, 2013, 09:16:32 am
LI,
There is a wealth of information at Barry Bredeau's unbeleivable website.
FORETRAVEL Motorhomes service and Repair Information (http://beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/foretravel-links.html)
There is also a great search capability on the forum home page.
welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 23, 2013, 09:21:15 am
ok, I just found that as you guys were typing I guess.
Are the 36 & 38's harder to find then the 40's
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Dave Cobb on July 23, 2013, 09:26:35 am
I don't think so, as there always seemed to be a number of buyers for the shorter coaches. When 36' was the shortest for years, Foretravel started building 34'. We are on our second 36' Foretravel. The seller of our present 36', bought a 4 year newer 36' again, but with 2 slides.
Foretravel also phased out the Grand Villa sloped windshield design in 96, but custom built them till sometime in 2003 by special order. They went from mid door entry to front door entry, but them built some few mid door models over the following years as well.
The prices vary of course by length, and model #. A good site to follow is the sale site for Motorhomes of Texas @ Luxury Pre-Owned Motorhome Dealer for Foretravel Newell Country Coach. (http://motorhomesoftexas.com/)
They list by model #, and you can see how they increase in price by length, year, and slides.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Michelle on July 23, 2013, 09:32:43 am
Probably not the 36's, but FT only built 38' coaches for a couple of years, I think. Around the 2002-2004 timeframe IIRC, and a few custom ones 2007 and newer.
There are a couple of 36' coaches in the classifieds here :)
Michelle
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: John S on July 23, 2013, 09:33:21 am
Loved my 34 foot when I had it. I went 34, 36 and now 42. The longer you stay in it the greater the desire for a bigger one. I think with the right layout 38 foot to 42 foot is the perfect length. No knock on the 34 or 36 as i put about 100k miles on each one.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Dave Cobb on July 23, 2013, 09:48:00 am
I might suggest that you update your profile to include where you are living. You just might be surprised by an offer to view another member's coach if you have not been around a Foretravel or inside. I know we have had a number of members stop by to show their coach to forum members that are new to Foretravel.
Also a member search might show you there are some near by Foretravel members to contact for more info.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: PatC on July 23, 2013, 10:55:52 am
You just might be surprised by an offer to view another member's coach if you have not been around a Foretravel or inside. I know we have had a number of members stop by to show their coach to forum members that are new to Foretravel.
Also a member search might show you there are some near by Foretravel members to contact for more info.
I see the OP is in mid-central Florida. When looking at the members map http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=googlemap (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=googlemap), I count 33 other members located in that general area right now. I say if OP did some checking around, he might be able to see a Foretravel up close.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 23, 2013, 11:18:02 am
I'm in Canada at the moment actually towing my trailer around.
I go from here to Water Town NY in 3 weeks then Long Island taking the trailer back to Fl Sept 28th, down rt 95, so I may be able to stop along the way also.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Carol & Scott on July 23, 2013, 11:54:23 am
Welcome to the forum. We had a 32' TT for years and recently acquired our 36' U320. It's a very difficult process deciding; 1. If to move into a class A DP. & 2. What to purchase. If you spend some time on this forum you will see two recurring themes. 1. Set your budget and buy the best Foretravel you can & 2. A 10 year old Foretravel is better than a new SOB (some other brand). Carol and I often have experienced Class A DP owners that see our Ol' Girl and comment on how well built they are, that they wish they had one or that their next one will be a Foretravel. There is no perfection in this world, IMHO. However, from my research based on our budget and coach availability we made the correct decision. Sometimes we wish for a couple of more feet but the 36' does fine for us. As we continue to upgrade and maintain/replace systems in our coach, I am finding it harder and harder to consider another coach as I now am getting to know this one. I think the bones of the Foretravel are outstanding and provide a wonderful platform for our traveling lifestyle. I spent a lot of time on this forum when I first became obsessed and soon realized that there is something special here - the coaches and the owners alike. Good luck performing your due diligence and ask lot's of questions. If you would like to chat on the phone PM me.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Caflashbob on July 23, 2013, 12:37:02 pm
Standard buying process in a motorhome is the boys look at the motor and chassis stuff and the girls with a little boy input the interiors.
Any shortcuts to reach the manufacturers Pre set price are normally taken out of the boy parts IMO.
Second and third time buyers normally look much more at the "bones" as that was maybe the disappointing part of the first purchase.
Most rv's are "price" coaches and built to a fixed budget and built to sell to the dealer then the end buyer on a short, empty test drive.
Foretravel was built without the budget as much and to be used not sell as easily.
I looked at my buddies brand new quad slide SOB and it has a rear radiator to allow the floor plans to be built with the rear slides where the side radiator should be.
Summer desert might be a problem with the cooling. Maybe not. Testing will tell.
I would not buy that rig personally. I like fast uphills at 110 degrees if that's where I want to go...
The SOB's are frame and body coaches. Foretravel in the later units(U models) are one piece. Like all the highway busses.
Look underneath first not at the interior floor plan and fabrics is my advise.
I just bought my 15 year old U320 a year ago and can't imagine buying another SOB that old and expecting it to still be "good"
As was mentioned the "systems" will all need work as you go down the road and mine is normal in that respect. Well worth fixing to me.
Then drive the money you spent out of it is my advise.
Bob
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: wa_desert_rat on July 23, 2013, 07:02:19 pm
Our purchase criteria was a little like the one you seem to be thinking about. We wanted a DP and we preferred a 96" wide coach over a 102" wide coach because we want to spend a little time each year down the Baja south of Mulege and we've driven those roads (with the trucks and buses) before; narrow is better. We also wanted to maximize fuel mileage so narrow again fed into the data; as well as lower and lighter. All of this also plays into traveling and exploring backroads and getting into and back out of older campgrounds.
The wide-bodied coaches started in about 1993 or 1994 and within a few years there were few 96" wide coaches being offered for sale in the Class A units.
One nice feature of Foretravel motor homes is that the basic interiors do not change much from model-to-model across the years; especially the bedrooms. So waking up in a 1989 Foretravel will be much the same as waking up in a 1999 Foretravel. The salons and galleys changed more drastically although a U280, a U225, a U240 and a U300 will all be very similar in living area up to about 1995. Even the bedrooms in the shorter coaches (34') are very similar to the bigger, newer coaches from what we've seen.
We bought the U225 which is relatively low in overall height, light in weight, narrow (96" wide) with a streamlined front and powered by a Cummins 5.9 mechanical engine which is easy to work on everywhere in the world (it's the same engine as my 1994 Dodge pickup truck has). But living in it is not all that much different than living in a newer, larger Foretravel (although the "basement" storage areas are about 8" lower in height).
This all combines to give us fuel mileage very close to 12mpg (without a toad) which would theoretically give us about 1000 miles cruising range without having to find more diesel. Pretty much exactly what we were looking for.
I can't see us changing for a long, long time.
Craig
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: danieljeff545 on July 24, 2013, 12:30:40 am
Welcome! I am a newbie to the FT world and could not be happier. My wife and I were TT people for over 15 years. After owning our 1989 U300 for only 3 weeks or so we will never go back to a TT. We almost bought a Tiffin 5 months ago and I'm very glad that deal never happened. The fit and finish on my 1989 is far and above the 2004 Tiffin that we almost bought.
Good luck in your search. If you pick a FT you will not regret it!
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 24, 2013, 06:23:07 am
What year or models have a slide or two which do not?
I see some of the '90's have a sloped back windshield which I don't care for, what year were they changed to the newer style.
Still confused after reading all the spec's what the real difference is between the U270, u295, u320.
I emailed the dealer in Texas that sells a lot of them, they offer no guarantee or check out of the coach itself, so I may as well look private.
I emailed FT factory no reply, do they give any guaranty when they sell a used one?
What are the most important things mechanically to look at or cost a lot to fix?
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: minibeast on July 24, 2013, 07:16:20 am
Check the following for a list of things to have checked; 50 things to check before you buy your used foretravel (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10866.0) You can also purchase a warranty depending on the age/mileage of the coach you find to cover mechanical and various other items. I got one through Good Sam and it paid for itself the very first trip (radiator failure).
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Michelle on July 24, 2013, 08:15:05 am
What year or models have a slide or two which do not?
I see some of the '90's have a sloped back windshield which I don't care for, what year were they changed to the newer style.
Still confused after reading all the spec's what the real difference is between the U270, u295, u320.
I believe the first slide appeared around 2000. There was some evolution in the slide mechanism from then through 2003. Through 2001 if the slide bladder needs replacement, the slide has to come out (via forklift). 2002 and newer (I believe; I know it's the case for 2003) the slide can be pushed into the coach to access the bladder.
The sloped front is the GV Grand Villa). There were GVs made up until 2003 (although very few after around 2000). Bus front appeared around 1995.
U270/295/320 are trim levels. Chassis will be the same in all 3, differences will include interior wood species, propane vs. Aquahot for heat and hot water, etc.
Hope that helps :)
Michelle
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Glockjock on July 24, 2013, 08:23:38 am
What year or models have a slide or two which do not?
I see some of the '90's have a sloped back windshield which I don't care for, what year were they changed to the newer style.
Still confused after reading all the spec's what the real difference is between the U270, u295, u320.
I emailed the dealer in Texas that sells a lot of them, they offer no guarantee or check out of the coach itself, so I may as well look private.
I emailed FT factory no reply, do they give any guaranty when they sell a used one?
What are the most important things mechanically to look at or cost a lot to fix?
I'll answer as much as I can. The smarter people will be along shortly.
I believe the first year for a slide was in 2000. I've never seen a slide in anything earlier than 2000.
When you talk about a sloped-back windshield, you are talking about the Unihome which had a mid-entry and sloped front end. Most of these will have model designations of Model U-225, U-240, U-280, and U-300. For the most part, I believe Foretravel got away from the Unihome and went to the Unicoach (front entry, and flat bus-style front end) in 1995 or 1996. They did make a few special-order Unihome coaches later, but not many. So, if you don't want the sloped-windshield coaches, stay away from U-225, U-240, U-280 and U-300. Look for U-270, U-295, and U-320.
The U-270, U-295, and U-320 models, originating in about 1995 or 1996, are the flat-front bus-style coaches. They share many important mechanical similarities, such as airbag suspension, diesel generators, side radiators, etc. This is a change from the Unihome versions, as the lower models (U-225 and U-240) didn't have some of the important but more costly upgrades. In the Unicoach series, the higher model numbers basically mean an upgrade in some of the amenities and a larger engine and generator.
If some of this is in error I expect we'll both learn something.
Good luck.
Glen
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Dave Cobb on July 24, 2013, 08:32:05 am
Note the 270's were standard with Oak interior, not Walnut. More Corain on the flat surfaces as the model number increased, and one furnaces on the 270 vs. two on 295's, Aqua Hot on the 320's. More fabric in the lower numbers models, more leather on the high end.
The hp. jumps to the largest offered on the 320's. My 295 has only 325, vs. maybe the 450's offered on the 320's. The generators jump from 8Kw to 10Kw as mentioned as well.
Lots of photo examination starts to reveal the interior differences as the model number increases. Print out the spec. sheets and go over them to see the additions there as the model number increases. Add to all the confusion is the number of interior layout choices, or custom ordered coaches that might be a one of a kind as well.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: John S on July 24, 2013, 08:47:01 am
Think of the U295 as a 320 without the bigger engine. I had no issues with my 270 and loved it. It was a 34 foot unit and I thought I wanted bigger. I did but do miss that unit as it seems most FT folks miss their first one.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Barry Beam on July 24, 2013, 09:12:24 am
I believe the first year for a slide was in 2000. I've never seen a slide in anything earlier than 2000. If some of this is in error I expect we'll both learn something. Glen
I believe the 1st slides were late 1999. Only a few of them.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: red tractor on July 24, 2013, 10:21:15 am
There are quite a few foretravels for sale under 60,000. and some of them are in Florida. We live in Riverview, Fl , near Tampa. Right now there is a foretravel in Brandon, Fl for sale. When you get to Fl, you can contact me and I would be happy to talk to you about foretravels
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 24, 2013, 11:48:31 am
We are about 90 minutes north of you.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 24, 2013, 12:16:55 pm
There were a few slides in 1999 "special editions", but 2000 is the year that most coaches were ordered with a slide.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 24, 2013, 12:27:12 pm
Well I guess this begs the ?
What's the real livability with/without a slide or two.
Never mind found a long thread on the subject, doubt we need or want one .....
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: bogeygolfer on July 24, 2013, 12:47:24 pm
Very livable without a slide; even better with a slide or two. You'll simply have to decide what that extra room is worth to you. When we were looking, a slide added $30-$50 k to the price. Not worth it to us, because we mostly travel in it (as opposed to living in it for long periods).
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: PatC on July 24, 2013, 02:32:39 pm
Having started RVing in a 1987 Toyota Sunrader class C, we find the Foretravel without a slide to be extremely livable! Besides, I tend to worry about that unnecessary complicated stuff failing at the worst possible moments! The Sunrader was extremely small except when looking in the mirror when it looked like a really huge fiberglass egg. Now I've hauled all kinds of loads on tractor trailers, even oversize loads, but that huge fiberglass egg sitting on that Toyota chassis made me real nervous.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: wa_desert_rat on July 24, 2013, 03:40:42 pm
The "Grand Villa" models with the sloped (streamlined) front have pilot and co-pilot sitting at the same point; bus-style coaches generally put the co-pilot aft a foot or so. This can be a PITA while traveling in terms ot talking back and forth. The aft-mounted co-pilot seat does make a nice lounge while stopped; but you can't see the TV set very well from there.
Front-entry (bus style blunt nosed) can be a PITA to load as you have to tote everything halfway down the coach to where you'll begin to store things you buy frequently (like groceries). Mid-entry is very handy; we generally just throw things aboard until we can't fit any more and then we climb in and just start putting it away.
The streamlined front models will get slightly better fuel mileage than the bus-style models. No door next to the co-pilot can mean less wind noise while traveling.
Rear radiator models make access to the engine for changing belts and repairs more difficult. Side radiator models are more complex with hydraulic-operated cooling fans. You can tell a coach with a side radiator by the vents at the rear along the side (beneath the bedroom windows); these also have vents in the back to allow the cooling air to flow through.
There are some side-aisle models out there although we felt that storage was somewhat reduced (closets, etc.) They made the bedroom much more private, however.
The U225 and U240 do not have air bags but instead have a mechanical suspension. If the air bags make traveling better then they must be truly stupendous because the suspension in our U225 is incredibly comfortable on the road. The air bag models use the air bags to level the unit while camped; U225 and U240 have hydraulic jacks for leveling. We discovered that they can lift wheels completely off the ground (unlike the air bags) for repairs and maintenance. This also makes it possible to camp level on some pretty steep slopes.
If we move "up" in a FT to a bus-style it would probably be to a U270. If we move "up" in a Grand Villa style it would be to a U280.
Craig
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Paul Smith on July 24, 2013, 05:35:53 pm
We've full timed for 10 years without a slide.
No divorce in sight... ;o)
best, paul
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 24, 2013, 05:38:45 pm
thanks again for the input, speaking MPG ( I know if I have to ask,,,,,,)
I guess 6-8 is the range but wouldn't a 36' get better milage than a 40'
Do any models stand out or are they all about the same.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 24, 2013, 06:19:47 pm
Budget will drive slide vs no slide. North of 80k and up for a slide coach, lots of nice stuff below 50k in non slide.
This topic has one or two previous threads, use search function to find those threads.
Had coaches without slide or aquahot, have both now, won't go back
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Don & Tys on July 24, 2013, 07:03:17 pm
Still confused after reading all the spec's what the real difference is between the U270, u295, u320.
When we first got our U270, I poured over the spec sheets trying to figure out the differences between the 270 and the 295. I went through the spec sheets and a line by line comparison for 1999 model year. Here's what I came up in a quote which may be of help.
Funny you should ask that... Just last night I was going through some hardcopys of the 1999 U270, U295, and U320 spec sheets with a highliter. Having just bought a U270 (3602 WTFE), but now in the stage of impatiently waiting to take possesion, I was curious to see what I would be missing out on. Sounds morbid I know... but since I know the chassis and construction essential bits are the same, and we definitely bought the best we could afford just to get into a Foretravel at all, I am quite happy with the feature set of our Foretravel. Many of the differences we be negated by the time we finish tinkering... but not all.
In the order they are listed... Under standard chassis features; U295 & U320 has 6 Alcoa aluminium wheels instead of 4. The inners of the rear axle are steel on the U270. U295 & U320 has a 160 amp vs. 130 amp alternator on the U270. U295 & U320 has chrome mirrors standard, option on the U270.
Under Exterior features; Air hose for tire service. Missing on the U270... Door bell. (this once I can live without!) Keyless remote entry on door and storage bay. (this one hurts a bit, having been spoiled my a two paging alarm system on my now departed car) Parallel Storage bay doors (bus style). I wish ours had this! It was one of the things that had me lusting after an American Eagle for awhile... not needing any clearance to open the cargo doors is a nice plus, not to mention giving more wide open access. Shelf in fresh water bay and LP compartment. (no biggie to me) Slide out cargo tray standard. (fortunately ours has a full size Joey bed that comes out either side, perhaps added later or as an option when new) Under cockpit features; Audit 8t8 system monitor with Electronic outdoor thermometer and compass, vs. Audit 9T6 system monitor on the U270 (no therm. or compass) Cell Phone antenna & connection Illumination on the dash panel and shifter panel instead of just the dash on the U270. Under Livability Features; Bedroom alarm clock. (this I can also live without!) Bose Companion Surround Sound System (U295), Bose Lifestyle 25 Home Theater System with CD changer (U320) Built in Safe Chandler at dining table Concealed Cabinet Door Hinges Dometic 12 cu.ft. Side-by-side refer with built-in in ice maker, or 10 cu.ft. model with separate ice maker depending on floor plans. Extra wide co-pilot seat, with electric foot rest on U320 Floor level accent lights Generator Switch in bedroom Gourmet kitchen faucet w/spray Leather seats and sofa in U320 Recessed Gaggenau 2-burner cooktop (U320) Slide out Shelf under kitchen sink Solid Surface 2 compartment sink Solid Surface Lavatory sink Tip-out storage below sink VCR eye Window accent lighting Under Heating/Cooling/Electrical Features Aqua-Hot Hydronic heating, standard on U320, optional on U295, not available on U270 Freedom 25 heart interface on U295 vs. Freedom 20 Heart Interface on U270 (though ours has a Freedom Heart 10, what's up with that???), Freedom 2S Heart Interface on U320 (not sure if the "s" is a Typo in the Freedom 2S... maybe supposed to be a 5?) Link 2000 battery monitor 10kw Powertech Diesel generator, vs 8kw in U270 22,000 BTU Automotive A/C vs 17,500 BTU in U270 42,000 BTU Automotive Heater/Defroster vs. 35,000 BTU in U270 Under Standard Weight Ratings; GVRW U320 34,880lb., U295 33,000lb., U270 31,000lb. GCWR is 10,000lbs higher than GVRW in each case. Same capacities except that units with Hydronic heating have 194 gal. diesel instead of 148 gal., and they have a smaller 17 gal. Propane vs, the 42 gal standard in units with a propane furnace.
The popular options look to be the same for all units, except hose and shoreline reels are not available for the U270. What is a Smart Visor anyway? I have only listed the differences from the 1999 brochures off of Barry's marvelous site. I think I got them all, feel free to correct me if I am wrong! These are the 1999 brochures and the other years may differ somewhat... Don
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on July 24, 2013, 07:31:32 pm
We started looking at U270 34'. The engine, transmission and interior changes for 1999-2001 in the U320 models pushed us to 36' minimum. Most have slides. The bigger engine makes hill climbs and towing easier. Slides add complexity and weight. More slides, more parts to have problems with and more weight. Mileage is dependent on how you drive and the weight you are moving around. Our toad increases the total weight of the parade by about 9%. Milage difference toad/no toad is about 10%. Everyday milage is just under 8 but has been as high as low 9's over a couple thousand miles. At 55 mph (ish) easy to get 8.5 mpg.
Bottom line for us ... We really like the LR slide. We like the two windows in the BR that you get w/o a BR slide. 36' is so much bigger than what we have had that it seems like a palace. I can see the space/storage advantages of a 40'. Aquahot is amazing. I think if we were to want to upgrade at some point the U320 with a slide from 2001 or later will make it easier from a resale/trade perspective. We are more likely to keep this one and do the headlights and paint it up. Happy campers here. Very glad we went with the FT choices.
Roger and Susan
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: philtravel on July 24, 2013, 07:57:53 pm
Another consideration may be in 1999 the counter tops went to 36" from 34" in the kitchen. The windows are double pane. As for the slides there are lots of posts on the topic. We don't have them and don't miss them I sure if we had them they would be great but they come with more maintenance, more weight, less storage and less access to storage. They also are more congested when they are not deployed. So for a quick stop or while going down the road they have a little less space. They also add to the purchase price and to the resale price.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Brad & Christine Slaughter on July 24, 2013, 08:22:40 pm
I think you are on the right track, starting with a price in mind...then comparing what you can get for that amount.
When I bought my 1990, I looked at several 1988-1992s and made a big spreadsheet listing all the items I cared about. Diesel generator vs propane generator, gas oven or no oven, wide-body vs narrow, then I looked to compare all the differences and settled on the one I did. It was a U280 and I sort of accidentally discovered the wonderful 8-airbag suspension which all newer FTs have.
Then as it became time to upgrade, I did similar comparisons and learned of the newer things that weren't available in my previous price range. Dual pane windows (started around 95???), a retarder...with or without a joystick (I'll never be without that now, after having used one for 40,000 miles), 10 gallon water heater or Aqua-hot.
I have a slide, but if it had been up to me, It wouldn't have been an issue either way (ex-wife HAD to have it). But then I also wasn't concerned about resale as I had no plans to trade up and a slide definitely raises the resale to many buyers.
I laughingly refer to my U270 as a "base" or "cheap" Foretravel. I pretty much have the same chassis, a motor larger than many earlier FTs (400 HP)...but not as large as the U320s (450HP). It is shorter so I don't miss the extra 50 HP. Not as many mirrors or lights, but I think I have many of the U295 options that are valuable to me (keyless entry, joey beds (2), Splendide, etc). I have added a few more things like insta-hot, secondary water pump control... The biggie that I do want is full body paint. I really want to do that in my future when $20k of spare change surfaces.
With a $50-$75k budget, you should be able to find a great Foretravel. The cheapest, oldest, least-equipped Foretravel is still leaps and bounds over the competition. Just compare what you find on a spreadsheet and note what you don't want to live without. For me, it is simply the retarder and I appreciate the dual pane windows. Both my FTs have been 36', and the space has been fine for me. The people who had this coach were a party of three when they took it out, so they had FT of Tennessee create a door on he toilet/sink area for privacy. That may be an issue to you. Some models have a private privvy, many don't.
Whatever you want, just learn what is available and choose the options you personally find important. While I don't have a Bose Stereo in my coach, I don't miss it...but I will confess to buying a 1997 Acura in the past primarily for its Bose stereo. LOL
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 24, 2013, 09:51:27 pm
Great forum, tks acousticart, I was looking for that.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Paul Smith on July 24, 2013, 10:03:17 pm
In rolling hills and no wind I typically get 12mpg or so at 55mph in my 1999 40ft U320 while towing a Honda Element.
I usually don't travel faster than 62mph but I recently seemed to find a sweet spot at 65mph... More later.
best, paul
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: J. D. Stevens on July 24, 2013, 10:49:32 pm
I guess 6-8 is the range but wouldn't a 36' get better milage than a 40'
That's probably a good guess for the U270, U295, U320. Some of people with the smaller, lighter GV coaches report much better fuel mileage.
Our experience:
1997 U295 36' Cummins C8.3-325 with Banks Stinger (340-375 HP ?) Coach weight as we travel is about 28,000# 7 mpg +- at 65 mph towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 at 4,100# with moderately aggressive tires
Mileage might look a little higher if we made allowance for fuel consumed by the generator. We use cruise control most of the time and don't take any special care to conserve fuel. Other folk who report mileage generally report 8 mpg for similar coaches with electronic engines.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Paul Smith on July 25, 2013, 01:35:40 am
We had a great 1997 36ft U295. Now we have a great 1999 40ft U320
4 ft doesn't even begin to describe the differences between our 2 FT's.
best, paul
Quote
36' is so much bigger than what we have had that it seems like a palace. I can see the space/storage advantages of a 40'.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: John S on July 25, 2013, 07:11:26 am
I agree with Paul. I went from 36 to 42 and added a tag. The difference is night and day especially for longer trips and stays.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: D.J. Osborn on July 25, 2013, 08:48:09 am
I can only speak for our experience and preferences:
We have a 40' U320 with the 400 hp M11 and get (overall, including generator and Aqua-Hot usage and towing our car and generally driving between 65 and 70 MPH on the freeway) about 8 MPG. For us it is ideal, because we still have only two axles (no extra expenses with a tag), no slides to cause extra headaches, plenty of room (although it's amazing how soon even a 40' rig can begin to fill up) and the power (particularly the torque) of the M11.
We would not want to go back to a smaller rig, or one with a smaller engine.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 25, 2013, 09:28:22 am
Anyone know what year(s) they started electronic engine components?
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Don & Tys on July 25, 2013, 12:51:07 pm
The Cummins 8.3 ISC's were introduced in the 99' model year in the U270's and U295's and were the electronic version updates of the Cummins 8.3c which was used in previous model years. The other engines such as the M11, I believe had electronics earlier... Our coach was built in August or September of 98' but is a 99' model year with the ISC.
It is a great forum! No joke, one of the best things about owning Foretravel... All the helpful people who love these coaches and want to keep them on the road. I want to add, that although oak in the hierarchy of Foretravel models is the low man on the totem pole, we love the oak cabinets in our coach. Nor do we pine for a slide or two... the awesome storage and carrying capacity, the transmission retarder (it only took a test drive to make me a believer on that account), the air disc brakes that hardly need to be used because of the retarder... those are all things that are not sacrificed by buying the entry level Foretravel. You can get more bells and whistles for less money with an SOB (some other brand), but you won't get the quality, the retarder, or even the Air Disc brakes with the top of the line from other coach builders (a few have Air Disc brakes, but not many)... and that doesn't even take into account the outboard mounted 8 air bag suspension. Monaco does have their own version of that last one on their high end coaches, but my reading of it is that theirs is not nearly as effective as Foretravel's. Bottom line, for us the entry level Foretravel beats the high end of the line of the other brands. That doesn't mean the other brands are worthless or unusable by any means. It is just about where you want to place your priorities. I can add all the bells and whistles that makes sense to us. That said, the ones that came with our 99' U270 still feel pretty awesome to start with.
When I go to RV shows, I always check out the bones of the coaches... I look at the engine carriages and see the 3/16" or at best 1/4" thick "C" channel steel that makes up the framing bolted together with slotted holes as opposed to the 1/4" and 3/8" square tubbing that Foretravel uses for engine and suspension structural framing bolted together with welded sub assemblies. In spite of that heavy steel frame work, the semi-monoque design lets the Foretravel coach weigh less and carry more in most cases. I guess I am biased though :o Good luck in your search! Don
Great forum, tks acousticart, I was looking for that.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Dave Cobb on July 25, 2013, 06:27:02 pm
I looked at the spec. sheets on the 270's and 295's for 1998 and was amazed to see over $70K difference in retail pricing when they were new. All those upgrades cost a bunch, and even more on the 320's. I see way less difference in prices between the first two model's on the resale now 15 years later. Glad we found our 295, and we do miss things that our older 93 U225 had as standard back when it was built.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: wa_desert_rat on July 25, 2013, 07:31:18 pm
Don (AKA Acousticart) knows more about the undercarriage of a Foretravel than most of us; he has completely re-made his and posted photos here to prove it.
I've also looked closely at SOBs at RV shows and wondered how long they'd last and - maybe more importantly - who they could find who would work on them. I always thought that lifting my bed in order to climb into the engine bay to work on things was a PITA until I looked at a Tiffin that apparently makes you work on the engine while under the rear bathroom.
Craig
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Kent Speers on July 25, 2013, 07:42:45 pm
Anyone know what year(s) they started electronic engine components?
I guess you are talking about Cummins engines but just for the sake of information our 1993 Detroit 6V92 is electronically controlled. They were only available in the Grand Villa U300 however so if you don't like the slanted front end this knowledge will not be very helpful.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 25, 2013, 09:05:36 pm
I may be having second thoughts on that slanted front, I read where an owner claimed better MPG.
Moreover, until we see both in person I'll reserved decision.
I loved my U280 Unihome "slanted front", but there is another consideration due to the layout. The driver/passenger seats are both about a foot higher than the main floor in a Unihome, so it is a little more awkward to turn those chairs and consider them part of the "living room". Usually, there is a couch on one side and two chairs on the other side in the living room area of the U280 series. The passenger seat actually makes 3 on that side.
When you examine the Unicoach, you see that the passenger and driver seats are on the same level and feel like part of the living room. It made me feel like I was getting an extra 2-3 feet when I moved from a 36' Unihome to a 36' Unicoach, plus the mid-entry door and stairwell isn't "in the way" between the living room and kitchen.
Mind you, it is all a matter of taste, but the two styles use space differently. After having both, I now also like the TV in the high position better than when it was down between the seats.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Dave Cobb on July 25, 2013, 11:02:22 pm
We too have switched from a Grand Villa Unihome to the Unicoach. Same 36' length, but we feel we gained 4' with the flat floor, and no nose. We found a rare mid-door coach, and so the drive and passenger seats are almost in line with each other. Great for chatting while traveling. We also have much better views with the front windows coming down to closer to the floors.
All that is good, but then the flat front issues. I miss the sloped windshield when the wind blows, and the way the rain and bugs deflect. The sun shade is harder to install, as it falls off the vertical window, and laid on the sloped one. We traveled some work zones last month and I cringed at having rock damage to the $ 1,200 per side windshields.
We like the mid door stairs, easy loading, and better nest for the passenger feet, slippers, dog bed, purse, computer and stuff.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Caflashbob on July 26, 2013, 12:04:22 am
We too have switched from a Grand Villa Unihome to the Unicoach. Same 36' length, but we feel we gained 4' with the flat floor, and no nose. We found a rare mid-door coach, and so the drive and passenger seats are almost in line with each other. Great for chatting while traveling. We also have much better views with the front windows coming down to closer to the floors.
All that is good, but then the flat front issues. I miss the sloped windshield when the wind blows, and the way the rain and bugs deflect. The sun shade is harder to install, as it falls off the vertical window, and laid on the sloped one. We traveled some work zones last month and I cringed at having rock damage to the $ 1,200 per side windshields.
We like the mid door stairs, easy loading, and better nest for the passenger feet, slippers, dog bed, purse, computer and stuff.
Plus one on the mid door. Add a 40' and the space inside probably almost equals a 45' with quad slides due to the slide rooms 18" loss per room. Definitely full timetable.
The 2" narrower counters someone pointed out that are on the 97 do make the galley less restrictive as we are two tall people when we try to pass each other.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: 2Escapees on July 26, 2013, 12:10:22 am
We had a Tiffin Phaeton and a Newmar Mountain Aire - both diesel pushers. Both were built on a raised rail Freightliner chassis with ZF i.f.s. on the Newmar and solid axle front end on the Phaeton. The Newmar is a much better built coach than the Tiffin: Much better insulation, superior slide systems, stronger roof, cabinets that rival a Foretravel. The Phaeton is a "vacation class" coach whereas a Mountain Aire or Foretravel are "full timer" rated. We loved our Newmar but it had a severe fiberglass thermal cracking problem that made it look like you had wiped it down with a rag that left lots if lint behind. Entirely an Owens Corning problem and it existed on a number of coaches (multiple brands) in the 2003-2005 time period so watch out for this one as the only remedy is to strip all the exterior fiberglass walls off, replace and repaint the entire coach - $40k job.
The big difference between the 2004 Mountain Aire we had and our 2001 U320 is the body and chassis construction system that really shows up after the coach has some age on it. Ours has 140k miles and not a single squeak - it also handles better due to the suspension design and the lower center of gravity. We thought about buying another Newmar but were hooked after driving a few Foretravels.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: wa_desert_rat on July 26, 2013, 12:13:39 am
What about Tiffens, I thought they were worth consideration?
Your thoughts.
In fact through Newmars in that comparison I suppose
I have not examined Newmars but the newer Tiffins seem to have engine areas that are difficult to get access to. Especially with rear bathroom (that is, a bathroom aft of the bedroom). I looked all around the back of the three Tiffin RVs with rear baths and couldn't see how you'd get any access to the engine for maintenance. Maybe I completely missed it, but nothing looked easy to me.
This is an issue with diesel pushers in general anyway. Diesel mechanics are used to working on long-nosed trucks where the engines are completely accessible once the hood is removed. Faced with the chore of having to spend a few hours cramped up under the raised bed is one thing; spending a few hours under the rear bathroom may be something else entirely.
Craig
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Caflashbob on July 26, 2013, 12:25:16 am
I walk away from any newer coach with a rear radiator. My service buddies cringe looking at them. Possible Heating issues to sell the floor plan definitely means the sales department out voted the engineering staff.
Bob
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: 2Escapees on July 26, 2013, 12:51:59 am
Our previous coach (2011 Phaeton bath and 1/2) had a rear radiator so access was a big issue. The rear radiator is a less expensive system so I'm sure that's why they are used on less expensive coaches.
The rear bath had a tile floor and you could lift a hatch using 2 suction cups (like tile or glass folks use) and engine access from the top was possible but the opening was not nearly as large as the Foretravel.
My Cummins guy almost kissed me when I brought the U320 in for a valve adjustment. :D
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: wa_desert_rat on July 26, 2013, 01:34:05 am
I may be having second thoughts on that slanted front, I read where an owner claimed better MPG.
Moreover, until we see both in person I'll reserved decision.
NASA has, not surprisingly, done a lot of research on which shapes have less drag. The Coefficient of Drag (Cd) varies both as speed increases and as frontal area increases but it's quite impressive how the shape of an object affects drag.
Shape Effects on Drag (http://exploration.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/shaped.html)
Airtab.com has an interesting essay on vehicle shapes and drag and their "airtabs" are intriguing. Take a look at the configuration on the back of the motor home in the photo.
Aerodynamic truck-trailer-RV add-on for fuel saving- stability-safety (http://www.airtab.com/nasa.html)
It seems to me that the shape of the Grand Villa "Unihome" design lends itself to reducing drag; especially when the coach is coupled with a smaller engine and lighter weight.
Craig
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: LI_Pets on July 26, 2013, 07:35:16 am
great feed back
Especially Jeff & Patricia having owned both, other told me they put Tiffin above Newmar in quality.
So it's interesting to see your opinion from ownership
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Bill Chaplin on July 26, 2013, 08:23:15 am
notice how much the front of the Grand Villa more closely resembles the Shuttles than does the later model Foretravel and SOB's.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Dave Cobb on July 26, 2013, 08:27:03 am
And also notice how the latest new fuel saving RV's on the covers of the magazines look like the Grand Villas and the mid 70's GMC motorhomes.
The difference in the bug spatter on my two coaches is amazing, sloped vs. flat nose.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: JWM on July 26, 2013, 08:31:56 am
Especially Jeff & Patricia having owned both, other told me they put Tiffin above Newmar in quality.
So it's interesting to see your opinion from ownership
Before we bought our '94 Foretravel GV U280 in early 2004, I found myself looking at many different makes and models like you seem to be doing now. I looked at and test drove more different makes and models than you could shake a stick at in a month of Sundays... ;) , not quite, but close! One thing that did not require much of my time, though, was my perception that neither the Newmar models and Tiffin models that I had been involved with had anywhere near the build quality that made the Foretravels famous - top quality is a very big deal for me. That was about twelve years back that I had figured that out. That said, I did very much like the Newmars and Tiffins that I tested in a great many respects, and one big factor aside from certain features like a slide and the driver's side door that was offered, was the vast amount of money that I could save, plus I'd be getting a unit five or six years newer as well! In the final analysis, we went with Foretravel...and I have never regretted it one moment. By the way, the subject U280 got an average of 10.8+ mpg, and I knew that such mileage was typical of like units once I had researched this issue.
I wish you the best in tackling the present process that you are in, and hope that the coach you get will give you everything you'd like, and much more, be it Foretravel or not!
James
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: BamaFan on July 27, 2013, 03:05:30 pm
About Tiffins, from a former Tiffin owner....
LI_Pets, I have seen a number of FTs and have driven two recently as we are shopping also. IMHO, the difference in quality of chassis construction and components, appliances, systems, etc. is astounding. For your $75k, you will be looking a year or two older in FTs than in Tiffins and Newmars, but much better quality.
If you want to know about Tiffins first hand, email me.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: PatC on July 27, 2013, 03:17:21 pm
LI_Pets, I have seen a number of FTs and have driven two recently as we are shopping also. IMHO, the difference in quality of chassis construction and components, appliances, systems, etc. is astounding. For your $75k, you will be looking a year or two older in FTs than in Tiffins and Newmars, but much better quality.
If you want to know about Tiffins first hand, email me.
I don't know about current late model year standards, but I can say that my old '94 Tiffin Allegro compared to my current '94 FT U225 are like night and day. When we go to a RV show, I love to compare my coach's fit and finish with the new, on display, motorhomes. But I think salesmen hate me when I do that. They usually ask me what I own and then roll their eyes. Lots of them here in the upstate NYS area don't even know what a Foretravel is, and those that do are more than willing to comment on Foretravel's build quality.
Title: Re: New purchase ? (Really used)
Post by: Alex P. on July 27, 2013, 03:56:25 pm
Another consideration may be in 1999 the counter tops went to 36" from 34" in the kitchen.
I found this interesting, and assumed it meant a 2" change in height (since 36" is the usual standard kitchen counter height in a house and 34" would be a shade low). But then I read this in the thread today...
The 2" narrower counters someone pointed out that are on the 97 do make the galley less restrictive as we are two tall people when we try to pass each other.
So the change was in counter depth and not height? (Counters are usually around 24" deep though, so...?)
I have noticed that the leg of the "L" is deeper on U295's than on U270's, but was thinking that was a model thing and not a year change.