Foretravel Owners' Forum

Hi All,

Brand new at RVing and interested mainly in older Foretravel diesels due to limited money.  This will be for my young family of five to travel and live in for about 6 months, so it needs to be very reliable and liveable.
I am looking at a couple of options now and want your input about the engines, transmissions, and everything else you can think of, if I may borrow some of your time and experience.
Option 1: '93 36', Cummins 8.3 diesel, Allison 6 speed automatic transmission, 120k miles, very well kept and in great shape.  Around $23k.

Option 2: another 93, about 100k miles, U240 cat 3116, allison 6 speed tranny, also a 36'.  Good condition, not as nice as #1, and about $21k.

Option 3: '87 Grand villa diesel 3208 cat, about 75k miles, not sure yet what the length is (it is long, at least 36'), no fridge, good condition otherwise, with a towbar and new tires.  Around $14k.  Would like to know more about this, such as the transmission, mpg, how good that engine was/is, how much it would cost to put a fridge in (used is fine, and I could probably do that).

Option 4: '82 Grand Villa 36' diesel, solar powered everything except AC's, 225k miles.  Don't know much else about it as I haven't talked to the owners, but am curious.  440W solar power.  100 gal fuel and h2o tanks, oshkosh chassis. Lots of new stuff.  About $9k.

So, I am sure that much info is missing, but would like anyone who wants to weigh in with experience, and especially about the mechanical (engine, transmission, chassis, generator, air brakes, suspension, etc).  Also feel free to chime in one anything else I should be aware of and check out, such as particular problems some of these models had.

Also curious about the wisest decision regarding the resale value vs. the asking price.
All comments welcome and appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Chris

Welcome, Chris. You are wise to start searching for a Foretravel. From your introduction I gather that you will be on the move quite a bit, rather than staying in one place for several months at a time, so looking at a motor home is a good choice. Others with more experience and knowledge than I have will certainly chime in with their opinions. Please remember that what we tell you is our opinion, and you ought to compare what we say with the reality of your own situation.

You can compare your four coaches at: Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs)

I suggest that you bookmark that, as you will refer to it frequently. Your first choice is a U280, which is a wide-body coach and has an eight airbag suspension. Our coach is also a 93, but a U300. When we started looking at Foretravels for full-time use we were repeatedly advised to look only at U280 or U300 coaches in the Unihome series or any of the Unicoach models. We took that advice and found it good. I'd suggest that you drop choices 2, 3, and 4 from further consideration.

I'm not too thrilled with the U280, though. I'd strongly suggest that you look for a 40' coach. That additional length won't be noticeable while driving, and will be of minimal concern when parking. It will be of GREAT concern, though, as the five of you try living in 340 square feet (the nominal area of a wide-body 40' coach). Those four feet show up not only in the living area but also in the basement storage area.

Keep in mind that the purchase price of the coach is, in some ways, only the beginning. Unless you get a cream puff that is being sold out of distress (and they do exist) you will spend some additional money fairly quickly for upgrades and repairs. For example, we had to replace four of the six tires when we bought our coach. Total cost was about $2600 or so. In addition, the hubs were leaking and needed new gaskets. That was another $300 or so. The refrigerator died (it was the original) and we are going to replace it with a residential model. The refrigerator will be $5-700, plus whatever I spend on the cabinet rework. If you need batteries you are looking at several hundred dollars per battery.

That said, that cream puff I mentioned above won't need any of that, but it will be priced somewhat higher than one that does. Often, the cream puff will actually be the cheaper coach to buy, because you won't pay full price for the new tires, batteries, refrigerator, etc. On the other hand, if cash flow is tight, buying a coach that needs some work, but is still roadworthy, can spread the expenses out over a longer period of time since you can save up a bit for those major purchases that are needed. You will pay more in the end, but not as much up front. Your choice.

None of the coaches you mention have slides, and for a beginner I think that is wise. Slides add room, yes, but they also add weight and complexity, and they subtract storage space. The earlier Unicoaches don't have slides, so you can have the newer bus-style and no slides. I happen to like the Grand Villa (aka Unihome) because the driver and navigator sit up higher than in the Unicoaches. We also like the mid-entry of the GV over the front entry of the Unicoaches. Again, your choice.

Is #1 a U280 or ORED?  If U280 and in the the condition you suggest(best of the group), that would be at the top of the list.

According to Barry's list, it is a U280. He doesn't show any ORED models in 93.

Welcome to the forum, Chris.

I lean towards the U280 in that group. They are bigger (higher) and wider than the U240. This translates to more living space inside and more storage in the "basement". 

The U280 is a Foretravel-designed Unihome chassis with air-operated disc brakes, the Allison six-speed transmission, more load carrying ability. The U240, also Unihome, does not have disc brakes ("wedge" brakes) and has a "torsilastic" suspension system which may present issues if there is a problem (no longer produced) instead of the air-bag suspension.

But I have to say that none of these were designed to accommodate a family of 5 (2 adults and 3 kids). They were, quite frankly, designed for two adults with another couple now and then (or a grandkid or two) who can manage to spend a night on the fold-out sofa. Sleeping arrangements on a permanent basis for 3 kids will be an issue. If any of those coaches have a dinette you might be able to custom-build a bunk in that space.

We lived (and cruised) for 5 years on a 32-foot sailboat with two kids and believe that kids need their own space no matter how small. We had "pilot berths" on either side of the salon that our boy and girl could call their own and retreat to as necessary. This seems to me to be especially true for girls and more important for teens.

Our favorite 12-year-old girl spends time with us in our U225 (think U240 with a smaller engine and an MT643 4-speed tranny) and I think I could remodel one of the U280 basement storage areas as her "bedroom" since she will, from time-to-time retreat to one of ours which are not as tall as on the U280 (by about a foot). Of course, access while moving might be an issue. :P

Of course, you could always just set up a tent outside. :D

Craig

The owner said it is 250 hp, and a u240.  It is the C8.3 with the 6 speed allison w/electric control (I assume retarder?)

ORED= Oshkosh chassis Rear Engine Diesel

Chris,

#1 looks to be the rig to consider as David suggests. Others are less attractive. Make sure the bulkhead is in good shape, not like the one pictured in a post last week.

My first choice would be a tall rig, 1992 or later U280 or U300 with a 2 cycle Detroit 6V-92TA as #1 with the 8.3 Cummins a good second choice. A side radiator is a huge plus, otherwise, a lot of P.M. is VERY difficult and may not have been done in the past. 102 inches wide is another plus if you have kids or dogs or have a few extra pounds on. The Detroit has 350hp and will pull a trailer much better. The Jake brake is excellent on steep grades with or w/o toad. Potential maintenance costs (Jake vs. retarder) are much less also.

If you are figuring on full timing, a 40 footer would be fine in RV parks but with part timing in mind and living or traveling in the west, a 36' would be my 1st, 2nd and 3rd choices. 40 feet is not nearly as friendly at National Parks, state campgrounds and for any backroad excursions.

Would NEVER think about buying a used fridge. If you look around, a new one is just a bit over $1000. With all the dangers from older RV fridges, you might even consider a residential unit if you think you may be plugged in a lot of the time or will have several solar panels on the roof. Any of the early to mid ninety Foretravel fridges have just about reached the end of their lifespan. Lots of good posts on this forum if you use the "search" tool. 

Make sure the model you choose has transmission lockup. Will save fuel and lower both temps in hot weather.

Coaches that have been stored inside with good decals, etc. will always demand a premium price.

Paying a little more than expected for a well maintained coach will almost always be cheaper, perhaps many thousands cheaper in the end.

We love our floor plan but there are really no bad layouts. Having said that, I think the 36' model uses the available space better.

Prices: mid teens to low twenties for an outside storage U280 or U300 with low to mid mileage. Inside storage with excellent decals, gelcoat, complete maint. book and upgrades will see mid to high thirty thousand prices.

Pierce

Chris, Five people in a MH is going to be real tight.  Don't think I would try it.
If you do try it look for 95 up that are 102 wide, will help with space some, larger cabinets, wider inside too.  I am partial to the Cummins but others will Tell you of their success with the Detroit.  Stay away from Ford Gassers, nothing but trouble.

Good luck in your search.  And yes mine will be for sale in late August, not trying to make a pitch.
Gary B

Ditto Brett's assessment of the bunch.

For six months use and money being a factor, I'd buy a used Class C with the large cab over sleeping compartment, and stay in camps with nice facilities.    However, if you do end up with a Foretravel, and your kids are young then you should be okay there too, even if you have to rig up a single bed (board and small mattress) for one of them in the evening with the support of the driver and passenger chairs.

I wish you and your family the very best of good luck on this issue.

Chris,

Not sure which coach you are talking about. The U240 has a Caterpillar 3116 with 250 HP.

The U280 will have the Cummins 8.3.  Could be 250, 300 or 325 HP depending on year.  Larger displacement and more torque than 3116 (and, of course uses a little more fuel).

From 1993 on, all Foretravels except U225 and the U300 have the Allison 6 speed electronic transmission.  A transmission retarder is another issue and rare in pre 1995 models.

Thanks Everyone for your advice! 
I am most interested in the engines and transmissions, also suspension system.
How much better (or is it) is the 6 speed electric controlled allison than the older 4 speed used in the later 80's?
For engines, option one is what I was referring to as the c8.3, and it is a 250 hp.  I talked to the seller and he said he didn't know that it was a U280 because he thinks its just a Grand villa.
The engine has a side radiator.

How much difference is there between the C 8.3 and the cat 3116, both 250hp and in '93 36' models, with the same allison 6 speed?

Also how does the cat 3208 in the '87 compare to the two above? It has an allison 4 speed (mt 643).  Also the lowest miles, at about 75k.

As far as room and liveability and space, we will spend a lot of time outside the mh, using it mainly for travel, some meals and sleep.
 
Thanks again!

Not a dig but I can tell you are thinking about gas engines when you are taking low miles. These are all heavy duty diesel engines and if the oil, coolant, filters, etc. are changed correctly, they will go hundreds of thousand of miles. Much longer than you will own it. Think condition as in has it been lived in, undercarriage rust, roof cracks, modifications done in poor taste, etc. A lot of difference between a caring owner and someone who fills the tank and turns the key. Do a forum search for a buyer's checklist. The older it is the better DIYer you have to be unless you have a big plastic limit.

A seller sent us photos with one showing a huge hole in the sofa their dog had worked on for a while. They lived in it and it really showed.

Pierce

I am confused.  I looked at Beamalarm and cannot find specs for the 93 that this guy has (option one).
He says it has 100 gal fuel tank, c8.3 and is 96" wide, NOT a unihome but a Grandvilla.  Can't find anything on there with all these things together--the U280's are 102" wide but have the 8.3, with a 150 gal fuel tank, whereas the U225 and 240 have c5.9 or cat 3116 and 100 gal tanks.

Chrisgruen, have him take a picture of the plate on the wall next to the drivers seat and post it here and we can tell you alot about what he has.  Where is this vehicle posted, we can give you help from that.

Option one. Best storage, good mileage. Banks kit a great match. The extra money you are dishing out is because its a better coach.

You are correct. I don't think he knows what he has. Those options don't go together that I've seen. You will be much happier with the storage (and other things) on a Unihome.

Here is a 1992 (not 1993) ORED-- wonder if this is what he has:
1992 Foretravel Ored Specifications (http://beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/models/1992_foretravel_ored_specifications.html)

You can tell at a glance if it is a U280 or ORED.  The ORED is on a frame rail chassis. Open a basement and you will see very little storage.  Open a U280 and look all the way through, as it is a unibody.

Brett

NADA in the past did not adjust value for mileage on Motorhomes

Pic!

Another way to know what chassis, is to notice if the storage doors are locked on the top or the bottom of the door.  All Unihome Grand Villas that I have seen have bottom locks and top hinges.  All Oshkosh Grand Villas seem to have top locks, and bottom door hinges.

For width, look at the grills.  If the metal sides are almost next to each other about an inch apart, the coach is 96".  If there is 6" between the two grills, then a 102" wide body Grand Villa.

All of the U280's (Unihome's) did not have the 148 gallon fuel tank.  Some had the 100 gallon.

Thanks to everyone again for all the advice and help.  Attached is a picture of the plate with the ratings and VIN, this should help clear up the confusion.
Wolfe, I think you are right about the coach being made in 92 but the owner says its registered as a 93 and definitely has the allison 6 speed.
All the good advice is much appreciated!

Chris

The data place tells it all.  It is an ORED  (the Oshkosh as chassis maker clears that up).

Oshkosh sold out to Freightliner.

If budget allows hold out for a unihome (8 airbag) chassis

As a newbie I can say I am very very happy however, I do wish my GV was a Unihome. The basement storage is not as abundant as I originally thought. After a couple trips that is the only thing I have found that I would do different. I was lucky and found a great PO that took care of her for the the last 21 years. The 3208T CAT did great in the Anirondack Mountains this past week. Be patient in your search...it took us 5 month to find the right MH to fit our family.

Good luck and welcome

The first FT that I looked at was an 86 ORED. I didn't know what from where, but with the help of this forum I know more what to look for, for our likings. I loved the mid door, the interior, engine purred like a kitten, etc . But when I opened the bay doors and discovered their size, I knew I wanted something else. I had just bought a Smokey Joe Weber grill (small, for 2 people) and when it didn't look like it would fit, well I had already bought the grill, so the motorhome had to change:))))

Thanks to all the comments from this forum which I came across about the same time, I have an abundance of knowledge on what to look for, what I do and don't want, and what to expect, generally speaking. With that said, the DW and I are still looking. Patience is a virtue they tell me. But "they" weren't trying to find a Foretravel.

Larry

I don't think you'll find the tall "basement" unless you get into the U280 and U300 Unihomes. Both the U225 and the U240 have shorter storage areas. But both of those are also shorter motor homes overall leading to better fuel efficiency.

Craig

Basement differences:

ORED's have frame rail chassis, so no through coach basement storage compartments.

U225 and U240's are unibody construction and have two full width basement storage compartments. They are shorter than U280/U300 basements.

The short basement models have an LP gas generator instead of a diesel generator. I don't know if anyone has mentioned that yet but it could be a factor in your decision.

The airbags aren't that difficult to change if you find a U280 or U300 with old cracked airbags. Most coaches in your price range will have old airbags still on them. I bought a U300 with old airbags over a year ago, drove it all over the country on the old airbags, and just blew the first one a couple of weeks ago. I've been carrying a spare airbag around with me everywhere I go. I changed it in the campground in about three hours and it was one of the 2 most difficult airbag to change of the 8. The other 6 airbags are much easier and probably take less than half an hour I would guess. You can get the airbags for a little over $150 each on the internet and you don't have to change all 8 at once if you don't have the money right now. Just carry a spare airbag and a low profile 12 ton bottle jack and some wrenches with you at all times... so just don't let the airbag suspension intimidate you, even if they're old and cracked. I remember that the old cracked airbags frightened me to the point that I nearly passed up buying this coach, which turned out to be a really good buy. The Torsilac suspension parts are unavailable unless you can find used parts somewhere, so you really should hold out for a model with airbags, which are easily available.

If you buy a rear radiator model definitely change out the fiberglass radiator fan for a nylon radiator fan immediately. The fiberglass fans always ALWAYS explode and almost always take out the radiator when they do. It happened to the manufacturer of the fiberglass fan on their company coach. It happened to the parts guy at Foretravel (ask him). It happened to me (sigh). It happened to a gazillion truck drivers including a couple of them that were towed in while I was sitting there replacing my $2,000 radiator myself in some little town where the diesel mechanics refused to work on any diesel pusher. I cannot overemphasize the importance of changing out the fiberglass radiator fan with a nylon fan immediately. The side radiator models have their own set of annoying problems with the failure prone hydraulic motors, hoses, and pump. A lot of those hydraulic parts aren't available anymore and you can end up stranded somewhere waiting for your pump or motor to be rebuilt. Your wisest course of action is to get a rear radiator model and immediately replace the fiberglass fan with a nylon fan. After you replace the fan about the only thing left that's likely to fail is the fan belts and there are three of them. The belts are easily checked before you start the engine each time and they're available at any small town auto parts store. You don't really need to get to the back of the engine for maintenance so don't let that influence you into buying a side radiator model. The side radiator models are probably out of your price range anyway, costing almost twice as much as rear radiator models in the case of the U300 I bought a little over a year ago. The side radiator U300 is 6 inches wider in the hallway, not the bathroom where the 6 inches would matter, and the chassis isn't any wider, so the body hangs out past the wheels on the side radiator models, which looks ridiculous to me. The 6 inch wider body is definitely not worth an additional $10,000 - $20,000. The rear radiator models have an advantage over the side radiator models in that you can add side radiators to the coach later if you ever need to, and keep your rear radiator of course. My coach has enough room for an additional radiator on either side of the engine. I don't need additional radiators but it's nice to know I can add them if I need them later. Radiator capacity has been a problem for some people in hot climates, which I try to avoid... not the people but the climates ;)

My advice is to ignore the minor stuff and base your decision solely on the major drivetrain and chassis parts that will leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere. Be sure to get a model that is well designed and has all of its important parts still easily and inexpensively available. If you decide that way you'll end up with a rear radiator U300 with a 6V92TA. The Caterpillar still has parts available but they're expensive and difficult to locate in rural areas. The Cummins engine usually raises the price of the coach a lot and might put it out of your price range unless it's the little 5.9 engine. Buyers are influenced by the fact that new coaches only have Cummins engines which tends to raise the prices. Cummins parts are usually less expensive than Caterpillar parts and they should be much easier to find in rural areas. I have yet to find a part that isn't easily and inexpensively available for my 6V92TA coach... except the radiator (ouch!)... so replace that fiberglass fan with a nylon fan immediately.

One correction on the generator comment.  When I was looking for my first Foretravel, I looked at the 1990 U280 with a diesel generator that I bought, but I also found a 1991 U280 with a propane generator.  So I don't think it was a given that just because it is a U280, it will have a diesel generator.  The Cat 3208T I had was a great motor and gave me 50,000 trouble-free miles except for a leaky exhause gasket that wasn't expensive but sounded like a thrown rod!

I second the encouragement to hold out for a U280 or U300 with the airbag suspension....with a diesel generator for ease of maintaining the fuel supply, altho the coaches had a HUGE propane supply.  I wouldn't pass one up just because of the generator's power supply.

Hi,

Another vote for U280 or U300.  You will want the storage.  40' would be a plus over a 36 if you are going to live in it.

I have an 89 U280  Cat 3208 4sp Allison.  propane generator (with tall storage!)

you asked about the transmission, 4spd is a reliable tranny, 6 spd would be a plus.  Cat 3208 is ok if you have good service records.  mine has 157K on it and going strong.  Just had the valve lash adjusted and tranny serviced at Allison dealer.

As said already, don't look at the miles on these units.  Look at the TLC they've had and the service records.  I'd rather have a 200k unit that has had meticulous service and condition than a 75K unit that has sat or been neglected.

As also mentioned, check the bulkheads.  I had to do major repair last winter on my rear bulkhead and some minor on the front.

Tires are important.  $2700-3000k expense if they aren't fairly new.

With small children, you will be ok with a family of 5.  There are six of us and we just got back from a 16 day trip and did ok (six months might be another story) :)

I too don't worry about the number of miles on a diesel. I worry much more about inappropriate low miles. A coach that sets for long periods of time will give be much more expensive to own than one with miles appropriate to its age. I figure 6,000 miles per year of age and up is pretty good and with the appearance of good maintenance and good records. 

As mentioned batteries and tires are a hidden cost that many new owners are surprised by. On a U280 or U300 you can pay up to  $5,000 for tires and $2,000 for batteries.

My 93, U300 has the Detroit Diesel 6V92 Silver engine. I had always heard to stay away from Detoits but now after three years of ownership I am very glad I have the Detroit. We too are on a limited budget. If ever necessary we can overhaul our Detroit for about $5,000 vs as much as $20,000 for a Cummins.

As far as a family coach, I don't think Foretravels were designed for family living but with a couple of alterations, they certainly could accommodate a family of five and they will be much more reliable and the best value than other brands. First, you need a 40 foot Grand Villa, Unihome and not a coach with a steel frame like the Oshkosh. I very much prefer the air bag chassis and you need the room of a 102" wide coach. That means 1993 or newer. If you have a couple of the children that are small, I would remove the dinning table and build in bunk beds. I think theoretically you could put bunks in that area so it could easily sleep five.

I really hate to say it but with your budget and family size I think I would be looking for a Class C, or a travel trailer and reliable pickup truck. They are designed for family use. However if your going to get a Class A Diesel, its a Foretravel or nothing for me. 

It sounds like you have a very exciting adventure ahead for you and your family. I wish you luck and my opinions may be worth exactly what they cost you, but they are mine and based on some experience so maybe they will be of help.

Our first RV was a Class C Mini Winnie. At that time the kids were 7th and 8th grade, so I think our kids were a little older than the OP's kids. The girls slept in the bunk over the cab. The sofa and dinette made into one large bed, so I slept in the middle, Jo Ann on one side and son on the other. Getting up or going to bed was an exercise in coordination.

The big problem that I've seen with many Class C rigs is that they are at or near GW when empty, and few of them can really handle a toad. They might be okay for weekends or even a couple of weeks if the kids are small enough, but not for much more than that.

A pickup and an Airstream might be a better solution. I got the impression from the OP that money is an issue (true for most of us, I guess) and that buying a truck and trailer might be more than they want to bite off. Personally I'd like to see them get a U280 or U300 40' but that may take them some time to find the right one. If someone knows of one for sale I'd suggest passing the information on to him. He may also need someone to help check out a coach that is some distance away. With three smaller children (again, I don't know their ages) traveling all over the country to look at coaches might be difficult. Let's help them out as much as we can.

Absolutely.

One thought might be for them to alert the folks at Motorhomes Of Texas to call them if what they are looking for comes in as a trade-in.  I'm sure MOT probably have a customer waiting list for most all prices and years of coaches.  Anyone here with a likely coach has probably already sent them a PM.   

Well Larry, I have recently had a very similar experience, and If I quote you wrong, my apologies, its the first time I tried that option^:)
It does seem that the 93+ years run a lot more and that is really too much for our eventual plans.
I think we would be ok in an older model less wide, but so much to learn! Honestly the people on this site are awesome and immensely helpful, with tons of info.
Thanks for your post!

Chris