In for major servicing the shop says my rear hydraulic fan drive radiator motor with the fittings has enough of a leak to wet the mount. What's the consensus here? Monitor or replace immediately?
Anyone already gone through this on a sister coach and has a source for the correct motor or have a correct spare and not need it?
Thanks in advance.
Bob
Bob if you catch it early enough, it may be able to be rebuilt. I waited And the bearings had destroyed the inside of the motor. New motor required and diffificult to find.
On Wednesday, August 7, 2013, Caflashbob wrote:
I just left MOT for service and asked them about a small leak that I thought was coming from the fitting in top of the rear fan motor. They thought it was coming from the seal but tightened the fittings. Leak was not enough to reach the ground and have noticed it for several years. They called a distributor and price for a new fan was over $700, but did not reccomend replacing it for such a small leak. Sorry, but did not ask for a part number. I will just continue to watch it for now.
Why don't you smart phone photo the make/model/part number of the pump and comparison shop for another? Sister coach may or may not be the same motor.
Hard to say without seeing if seeping or a leak and knowing the shop's motive at the same time.
Pierce
They are a large well run non rebuild shop.
I like the tightening and cleaning it up and monitoring it. I assume its worn. Will see if I can get a picture and number off of it. They said they can get them made if not available. 1-2 weeks.
I rebuild things. Not sure about hydraulic motors.
I've been watching a seeping hydraulic fan motor for six years and 75,000 miles. I just clean up the area once a year.
Great info. What do you use for cleanup?
Hate to damage it more. Bob
Brake cleaner, the strongest degreaser I know---after a lot of scraping with a putty knife.
Ours is doing the same...Ordered a spare to carry along just in case....BUT...at $3K a heck of a part to carry...Think me will return it (althought it was the last one they had in stock....
My guy may not know but he quoted me $1200 plus labor. Said could be made to order.
Like the spare just in case.....
Bob
Would those interested in the hydraulic fan motors go to zorotools.com look under the hydraulic motor and pumps section and see if any of the motors might apply. The specs are also accessable. thanks jc
Thanks for the info everyone. Told them to clean up the area and will monitor it for now.
Fingers crossed. Having them verify the two speed fan control works. The a/c fan was on all the time. Now fixed seperately.
Bob
Had a wet seal on the rear fan motor 8 years ago when we bought the coach, rinse it off with the water hose and some simple green a couple of times a year. If you do a search on the forum someone had a hyd fan motor rebuilt and some other work done at a hyd shop in WVA, seems like to me it was very reasonable no where near $1000.00, might be worth shipping it to them.
Bob,
Had lots of hydraulic motors in our fleets over the years. If it's not dripping just wetting around the seal area then just clean it up and check it now and again. Pretty common.
Keith
Hi Bob,
If you are on the east coast, a member here, Jon Twork, had hydraulic fan motors repaired. The shop he used seems very reasonable. The shop would use Fed Ex/UPS, making it a little easier for some.
He gave a breakdown, June 2012, and posted on this forum. The shop was still open a few months ago.
Mr. Wayne Beckett
J & S Hydraulics, Inc
785 Airport Road
Sutton, WV 26601
Office: 304-765-7008
Cell: 304-619-4776
FAX:304-765-0109I
Raymond
Bunch of pros here. What an asset. I used to be good with Foretravel stuff but stopped after 93 or so.
Thanks guys. Had them clean it up.
Bob
I had mine rebuilt at ACS Hydraulics, Inc. 756 N Hariton St, Orange, CA 92868 (714) 997-4800
Foretravel Hydraulic Pump Rebuild (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/foretravel_hydraulic_pump_rebuild.html)
What documentation! I feel like an expert pump tech just looking at your photos. Nice job Berry.
Pierce
Barry did they do the removal?
I build four stroke dirt bike motors as a hobby biz. That's cool.
No, They just repaired it when I brought it in. I had a mechanic remove it.
I had a leak in this area also and it turned out to be that the solenoid switch that activates the hydraulic motor was working loose over time. I would tighten it and before too many miles it would vibrate itself loose again. Evan when it was tight, it would still weep a little. It took some research, but I finally found a drawing of the hyd. motor and was able to determine that I could remove the solenoid and replace the "O" ring without it going "sproing" and have pieces all over. "O" rings take a set after some time and just wont seal anymore. I got a new "O" ring from the local auto parts store and replaced the old one. I tightened it back up again and installed a keeper on the switch so it would not rotate loose again and it has been weep free since. Let me clarify, it is the core of the solenoid that screws into the hyd motor. A point of interest that I found out in this operation is that the power steering hyd system supplies the pressure to operate this hyd. motor and alot of leakage over time could adversely affect the power steering. Good luck on whatever your specific problem is and I hope I could shed some light on this. ---- Fritz
I need some advice. While at Tennessee RV last week, the tech noted that our fan motors are leaking oil and suggested service. I got under the coach today to have a better look and I posted some pics here:
Misc pics (http://www.geoandpat.com/misc_pics.html)
I'd really appreciate it if some of you would take a look and tell me what you think. They are leaking a bit, but it does not look all that serious to the untrained eye. Need to be fixed now (we are in NC)? Or can it wait till we get back to Tucson. Once there I can have them removed and rebuilt in either of the sites noted above.
Thanks in advance. My email is gmhatfield100@gmail.com if you want to use email.
Doesn't look serious to me. Serious bucks if you can't find a reasonable rebuilder.
George,
Looks like a long time seep to me. Would think it might need immediate attention if it were running down the mount or dripping but it appears to have been this way for quite a while, perhaps thousands of miles. I would drive it home and then worry about it. But don't want to be the guy you curse if it goes south.
Pierce
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/s280x280/1080831_10201583486047410_2086649275_n.jpg?oh=5ac3a6249fd4b4da66f543eca67fbc7f&oe=52156E99&__gda__=1377203830_7f979ed2dde66a6d054411ddc396e9d2 (https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/s280x280/1080831_10201583486047410_2086649275_n.jpg?oh=5ac3a6249fd4b4da66f543eca67fbc7f&oe=52156E99&__gda__=1377203830_7f979ed2dde66a6d054411ddc396e9d2)
Thsi is the spare we carry in case ours goes south....Am sure it is different from George's. You don't want to know the cost...
I hope yours are OK. They look a lot like mine. I plan not to be concerned until it starts throwing or dripping oil.
Ditto. Has looked the same for 60,000 miles and 7 years.
When I first noticed the drip on the ground we were having the two of grandkids fly in for a 10 day 1,500 mile vacation so didn't want to get caught without this motor...It is made only for Foretravel....Long story short....if I return it to FOT I pay a 20% restocking charge ....$600.00....I'll just hold onto it for a while longer...Also, it was the last one they had in stock and they must be ordered from England, custom made....If anyone needs one quick, let us know...
George ---- Part of your decision making info on when to do something can be gained from checking your power steering fluid level as that is the sys. that provides hydraulic fluid to run the cooling fan. Keep an eye on that level and don't get caught without steering. Chances are that you will have enough time for a trip, just keep some power steering fluid on board. ---- Fritz
Fritz,
In the 2003 coaches like George's, the hydraulic fluid is 15W40 motor oil
cummins-isl-400hp-belts-filters-hoses-for-foretravel (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/belts-filters-hoses/cummins-isl-400hp.html)
I do check the hydraulic oil reservoir sight glass every morning before we start out, along with the oil, belts, and coolant level. I have yet to notice the level is low by the sight glass.
I see that the sight glass is present, but I always check with the dipstick in the top of the reservoir. When the seal failed in our power steering, I was adding a quart of Delo 15W40 to the reservoir every 200 miles. I ran eight quarts through the system by the time we got to FOT for repair. What a mess!
The failure was during cold weather. I thought we might be able to operate without the hydraulic system, so I pulled the belt to the hydraulic pump and tried to drive the coach. I made four right turns while driving around a shopping center. Unless you have the strength of "Arnold" in his prime, don't try it. My shoulders were sore the next day from the short drive.
If you have leaking seals, it will be messy, but you can probably drive to a repair facility. Keep at least a gallon of oil at hand for the engine and the hydraulic system.
Michelle ---- Thanks for that info., I'll double check my 91 paper work and make sure that it is power steering fluid for my rig. I dont have a sight glass on my 91, just the dip stick. I'm quite sure that it is power steering fluid ---- As I remember, it was a reddish fluid that puddled on the pavement when I found my leak. Thanks again ---- Fritz
Thanks for all the advice! I think I will just keep an eye on the motors for the time being. I did check the dipstick on the hydraulic oil reservoir and it is full. I have never added any oil to it, although MOT might have last year when we had service. Bottom line is that if there is a leak, it is small. Another thing to keep an eye on!
George, You might try adding a bottle of seal sealant, much like radiator sealer. I used it til I could get the leaking seal in the pump replaced. Did not stop it completely but it did slow down.
Gary B
I talked to Mike Rogers at MOT today and he said not to do anything to the motors unless oil is actually dripping from them. He also said they can rebuilt the motors with new seals.
Our 93's both use regular motor oil. It says so right on the reservoir.
Yep, that's what it says on our '93.
Pierce
The DDC 2stroke uses 40# oil, I would use th 15W-40 (lighter) oil in the hydraulics, 40 is heavier.
Dave,
Yes, there is a sticker on the canister for 15-40. I should have included that.
Pierce
Pierce, you may recall that years ago DDA recommended 30# for all 2strokers, later they upped it to the present 40#. In my wild 8v-92 (600+)I ran 50# due to results reported frm a long term experience from a charter bus operator in Denver, who did not want the 6V, so stuck with the 8V and had no more spun rear mains, they are the weak link in he 8V-92.
The 6V does not suffer this issue nearly like the big bro.
Should add, DDC now recommends 50# for the 8V92. Takes reading close to find it.
Dave,
Our local Chevron dealer picks up cases of Delo 100 #40 from Sacramento and delivers them to the house while on his route. The Delo 100 is also very reasonable priced. Our U300 came with a ton of manuals but no service record of any kind. The last owner was in poor shape but when I asked his wife, she looked at me with that look and said it probably needs some maintenance done. Pretty sure he used the multi grade for the very occasional oil change.
The big worry is with hydraulic reservoir not very far from the engine, many owners will just change oil with the 15-40 after they read the sticker on the cannister. I have looked at accelerated engine wear photos for the cam lobe for the injectors and also the piston skirt. Really show big difference between the multi grade and the straight #40.
I understand the 92 series has the exact same rod bearings as the 71's. Not sure about the mains.
Good to know about the #50 for 8V-92s as there is plenty of room to put one in. I would have to hang out on I-80 on ramps going up Donner Pass on I-80 waiting for new SOBs to come by. ;D
Heating up the solar panels this afternoon so will post results.
Next project is to move the air cleaner into the engine compartment routing the intake out through the stateroom lower cabinet and out above the side radiator. Going to put a small tankless water heater in the old air cleaner compartment with a 12V pump and use it for a winter block heater. Original air cleaner intake is in the worst possible location. At $60, bet they last at least 10X longer away from the rear tires.
Pierce
Pierce,
If yor concerned about the bottom end bearings, it is a simple matter to drop the oil pan all main bearings are very accessible. The firs to show wear will be the rear main. Reinstalling the pan is a non event. A d the rod and mains are the same on bothn the 71 & 92, part of the reason the 8V-92 is sensitive on the rear mains. Why Most "awake" folks switched to the 50 wt.
Pierce ---- I've really spent alot of time looking and thinking about how to get my engine air cleaner intake above and away from those rear wheels. The air intake on our 91 GV is behind and just above the rear duals on the navigator side. What I have come up with to date is to route the air intake out thru the shell and up to a reasonable height around the top of the window. I have been trying to design a flat but ample riser that would hug the shell and not look too added on. It would point forward like a scoop and take air in away from the dust from the wheels and the carbon laden exhaust. In the mean time I have just added some filtration to the round air intake cover on the filter element. Nasty little problem and I'm happy to see that you are working on it. (PS-- I also routed the exhaust tail pipe so that it points backwards in lieu of straight out and into the air intake when you're standing at idle) Have a great day ---- Fritz
Michelle ---- Just to close an open loop, It is dexron power steering fluid (18quarts) that drives the power steering and the side mounted hydraulic cooling fan on our 91 GV. Do you know when they changed to 15W40? Thanks and have a great day ---- Fritz
Foretravel used different fluids in different years. Our 84 ored had engine oil for the power steering fluid, but when I worked in Tampa for Foretravel there were some years that had dexron for the fluid, so have to look at the fluid and for labels as to which fluid is being used
Thanks Red Tractor ---- Is that as in IH or Case? I'm green myself as in JD. Have a great day ---- Fritz
Red as in IH. I was raised on Farmall H and M, but I do have a JD model B
My 92 uses transmission fluid too.
Fritz,
So many places around here only reachable by dirt/gravel road. In Baja, the dirt is really fine and you can see vehicles really kicking up a dust cloud on the way to see the whales. Many bus conversions have the intake plumbed up to the roof. I would like to keep the stock appearance as much as possible plus we don't ever load all the compartments so can sacrifice some space in the cabinet next to the bed for the air intake PVC pipe. It would be about three feet straight out to the side above the radiator. I would like to make use of the air filter compartment for a tankless water heater just for winter block heating. No 120V power needed, just a small 12V pump.
The air cleaner location along with the radiator in the back are two of my biggest complaints. Lots of wasted space that could have been used for radiators in the nose with no hydraulic pump or motors necessary.
Pierce
Pierce ---- Thanks, I'll look a little harder at a pipe up the inside. I have the side mounted radiator which is on the opposite side from the air cleaner. Other than loosing storage space, the inside option may be OK. Thanks again and have a great day ---- Fritz