A coach advertised on Motorhomesoftexas.com has a couple of terms that I am wondering about. In the detailed description of a 2000 U320 is the term 'Zip Dee slider bars'. Another term is 'Ether injection'. I looked for these terms in Barry's 2000 FT specs but didn't find them. Can someone please explain these?
Royce,
The Zip Dee slider arms allow one to deploy the patio awning and then "slide" the bottom attachment point of one or both arms up the side of the coach to give more head room below the awning arm. I use mine all the time.
I believe the Ether Injection is a way to help start a cold main engine by allowing the drive to press a button to activate the Ether Injection. I have one on my '95 but I believe the more learned members will chime in that it may be a very bad idea to try to use the injection system. I never charge or use my injection system.
"Zip Dee slider bars" are what Rudy said they are. Not all Foretravels have this option, we find it very helpful to raise the support arm out of our way.
Ether injection is for cold weather starting. The switch is with the driver's left side controls. The can is located in the engine area. Mine is white and upside down. It is rusty and hopefully empty. It is suggested to not use this "feature". I instead look at the overnight temps expected and switch on the block heater lighted switch on the front wall of the bed platform. That switch controls the duplex plug on the engine side of the bed platform, and the block heater needs to be plugged in.
Slider bars could also be the term used for the bars up at the top that prevent side winds from causing problems. They are like a stabiliser bar.
saw them on Greg and Vivs awning on a 320
John h
Ether has been used since the beginning of time to aid starting both gasoline and diesel engines. In diesels, it is used to help start engines without glow plugs. Since diesels are compression ignition engines, the diesel fuel is injected at a precise moment and then explodes violently (diesel knock). When ether is sprayed into the air intake, it is compressed along with the air. Unlike the precise moment diesel is injected, the ether may explode with the piston part way up, depending on the temperature of the compressed air in the cylinder. Exploding early can raise pressure in the combustion chamber to a point where the piston rings may be damaged by the sudden load. The biggest danger is spraying (injecting) ether in a hot engine where the piston may be only part way to the top and a very large volume of air mixed with ether will explode almost certainly damaging piston rings and raising pressures so high that the head gaskets may fail. In some engines, the explosion was so violent that the connecting rod failed and came out the side of the block.
RV owners may change fuel filters on a hot engine and then use ether to try and start the engine. Bad mistake.
That should just about do for explanations. Best idea is to turn on the block heater in winter and wait until the engine temperature has risen far enough for the compressed air and timed diesel injection to do their jobs.
Pierce
Do not use the either, in fact I recommend removing the pressure can in the engine compartment, or atleast disconnect the wire to it. Also If you are in Alabama, you will find the engine starts fine without block heater or Aqua Hot, unless you have a very unusual drop in temps.
John,
All manual Zep Dee patio awnings come with a tensioning arm that stows parallel to the awning arm. Once the awning is deployed, the tensioning arm is released from its stowed position and attached from the end of the awning arm to the top of the awning aluminum sun protectors to tension the fabric of the awning.
Sliders are only on coaches whose manufacturer chose to install them or they were ordered or installed by the owner.
I knew that ether injection into a diesel engine was not a good idea - just didn't know that was what was being described. Thanks.
On my 91 GV I have an ether injection sys. that I do not use. As previously mentioned, I turn on the block heater the night before getting underway. Only problem I have is knowing whether or not the block heater is working. It doesn't make any noise, (as in water heating up) and if it does work, it takes a long time to heat up and I haven't seen it show on the temp gauge yet. I talked with the manuf. rep and they seem to think that it is OK. Guess I need to put a clamp-on ammeter on it and see if it drawing any current. Anyone have any experience with one that seems to work OK?
Fritz,
On my 1990 and my 1995 there is an outdoor duplex 120 vac plug mounted on the forward wall of the engine bay. The Block heater is plugged into that which is controlled by the switch on the forward wall of the pedestal of the bed adjacent to the 120 vac circuit breaker panel.
I had to raise the bed and plug the block heater in to get it to work. It draws 15 to 18 amps which is easy to see with a clamp on meter.
Will take several hours to heat the coolant in freezing conditions. I usually turn it on as I go to bed and leave it on all night if I am leaving early the next morning in the very very few times I am in that cold of weather.
Two EZ ways to see if your block heater is working. Have someone turn the block heater switch on while you are watching the coach 110V voltmeter. The voltage will drop a little. Other way is to go outside after the block heater has been on for a while and put your hand close to where the block heater is and feel if the area is warm. Could always plug a "kill-a-watt" meter in and instantly check it. As much as I hate WalMart, $17 is pretty cheap tool. P3 International Kill-A-Watt Electricity Usage Monitor - Walmart.com (http://www.walmart.com/ip/14282370?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000427963&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=14005329550&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=34925070310&veh=sem)
Pierce
Ditto Rudy's experience. Our engine doesn't want to start at temperatures below 25F. If we plan to start up in subfreezing temperatures, we turn on the block heater about 9:00 p.m. to be ready for a 7:00 a.m. start time.
If you use a "clamp on" ammeter, it must clamp around only one of the two wires required to complete a circuit. For 120VAC, you can get a gadget the has a plug and socket, and a couple of places in between to clamp the meter. One place will register 1X current, and the other place will register 10X current. It's a nice accessory for an AC clamp on ammeter.
The Kill-A-Watt is a nifty tool for finding information on a 120VAC circuit.
Original ether starts on the older Oshkosh and probably the unihomes do not work above 50 degrees.
I have used the ether starting assist long ago as we used to ski out of them.
So cold normal engine oil generator would not turn over. Dry camp. Zero out. Cold batteries had no amps either. Engine barely turned over. 8,000 foot altitude. 30 second crank, then the ether. Remote area.
Like I said long ago. Holding Tanks froze also. Fresh was heated from a front furnace run under the drivers seat.
Bob
FWIW,
I had a block heater that was not working when it needed to be. I thought it was as the on off switch was illuminated but it did not seem to have any effect. Well what had happened was a mouse had chewed through one of the wires and though the wire appeared intact it was not. I used one of those cheap gun type thermometers (got mine from Harbor Freight). It stayed the same ambient temp even though the switch was in the on position. Well, after a little looking found the faulty wire, replaced, and viola', the harbor freight thermometer noted the increase in temp almost immediately after switching to the on position. Now, it works fine and seems to me an easy way to check its performance with the non contact type thermometer.
Also in the FWIW category, on my 1990 U280, the previous owner worried about accidentally kicking the switch on...so he unplugged the actual heater from the outlet box under the bed. When I started looking for why mine didn't work, that is what I discovered.
Ether was a long-time aid to starting diesels in cold weather.
BUT, (large BUT), modern diesel engine use an INTAKE MANIFOLD HEATER. Shooting ether into red hot heater grid is a good way to have an explosion. So, before considering using it, read your owner's manual or contact your engine manufacturer to see if you have an intake heater or if it is OK to use ether/starting fluid.
Brett
My block heater no longer works. It's wire broke at the element. Mine plugs in under the bed too so it is a chore to run a new wire. I have been fine with the Aquahot and truly with my extra battery cable starting in the winter. No Aquahot and 9 degrees just turned the key with the boost on and it fired up. I have the ether bottle and it is full but have not used it since changing cables batteries and a new starter 4 yrs ago.
I was told that the older Cummins mechanical engines like the 93, BT5.9 as found in the U225 did not have a pre-heater. If we were camped without shore power, like a stopover at Walmart, we could not run the block heater all night. The Onan Emerald III, air cooled generator was too loud to run overnight so we used the ether for cold morning starts. There are many times I wish I had ether on my Detroit 6V92. It is really hard to start when outside temps are below freezing. Ether can also be very helpful starting a cold engine with weak batteries.
Like most things in life following the rules "USE ETHER ONLY ON A COLD ENGINE" and only when its needed is probably OK for older diesels. IMHO
Old Faithful has started at 10 degrees with no problem after sitting for 2 days.
No either needed just a strong fully charge battery. If I think about it when I used to store it it would set for a month or two over the winner and then start right up.
Try -30f
Stupid cold. Batteries totally flat in the morning. Had to get the ski resorts snow plow guys to jump the cat.
Had to put a hair dryer on the windshield to defrost it driving around at 2am. Had the docking lights. Low and high beams, roof spotlight and rear overhead driving lights on driving through the kit Carson forest between Taos and breckenridge in dec 1988. Colorado patrol pulled me over. No kidding. They had a UFO call. Bright lights in the forest...
Bob
Bob, ROTFL...now that's a funny post....
Younger and crazier. Christmas Eve had dinner with the Taos founder by chance. Wine and food. We walked outside we bundled up like Eskimos and his coat open at -20 and high winds. I remember telling him to zip up his coat. He laughed. Haha. I have lived here 30 years.
Two weeks later he had died of double pneunomia. I did tell him to zip up his jacket.
A 1997 grand villa 300 cat ored was not made for minus anything. Propane tank regulator froze up from a little water in the regulator. Fuel gelled out also. And the onan propane generator would run for 50 hours and it was a four day weekend. And spit an armature in pheonix on Friday afternoon before Christmas on Tuesday.
Local cummins/onan on 17th and mc dowell fixed it on the spot. No charge. 4pm before Christmas break.
Been there....it was an adventure then. Still laugh. Many more stories.
Foretravel luck. He used to work for Murphy motors the Foretravel dealer in Tennessee.
Bob
Bob, what a story!
I didn't know if you lived in the arctic or what at -30. Guts - is all I can say!
Loved the UFO story!!!
I've used ether on diesel engines on cold mornings many times. I was always told to start cranking first THEN spray a shot of ether. And never when the engine was warm (although that would be unnecessary anyway; they start fine when they're warm). We had a John Deere 3020 that was a nice little tractor but needed a shot when it got down into the 30s.
Our U225 has a block heater that will keep the entire rear half of the motor home warm all winter. Seriously! The first winter we owned the coach I put the thermostats down to the lowest position and had a small oil-filled heater in the salon. The bedroom was always warmer than the thermostat setting.
Craig
Back when I drove a big rig I would use WD40 as a starting fluid in really cold weather, sprayed a bit in both air intake and started the CAT just fine.
Roland
My Dad taught me to use WD 40! It works good.
Learning happens when you listen ! That is why this Forum is so important to us. We don't respond all the time but we learn...
5.9's have intake grid heaters. Electronic M-11's do not.
Brett, my understanding from my local Cummins dealer was that the older medium duty mechanical B5.9's used for motorhomes did not have the grid heater before 1994. It was used on light trucks prior to 94 per the this bulletin, http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/JCTech012/2011-01-11_230621_grid_heater_controller1.pdf (http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/JCTech012/2011-01-11_230621_grid_heater_controller1.pdf) , but had to be added to earlier medium duty engines. That's why Foretravel installed the ether system.
Engine block heater closure ---- I verified proper voltage down to heater plug, checked resistance thru the heater, plugged it in and turned it on. Couldn't detect any thing that would tell me that it was working, so I started monitoring it with a hand held laser thermometer. It took some time to show a heat rise, but it did start heating up. after about 5 hours, it reached the auto shut off point and steadied out. The block temp started at 62 deg. and leveled out at 94 degrees. The outside ambient temp was about 80 deg. For colder temp's , this would vary alot probably. This winter I will do it again to see how long it takes to heat up so that I will know how far in advance of getting underway that I will need to turn it on. That Cat engine starts very well when cold, but it's a lot easier on starting components if you can heat it up first. As far as the Onan goes, You need to start it with a shot of ether when it's around freezing or lower. That propane regulator just doesn't do it when it's cold. ---- Fritz
I usually turn on the block heater late evening for a morning run. IF plugged into power.. Usually don't use heater if low temp for the morning will be 45 or above. FWIW.
I use the Aqua Hot feature if cold in AM, Quicker too all while running the genset to bring batteries back up while using the microwave etc. by the tin I am done, the engine is up to about 80-90 and ready for duty.