I want to make sure I don't try and remove my lug nuts in the WRONG direction. I'm ALMOST sure that when my tires were installed there was a problem resulting in the studs breaking because the left side studs were left threaded and the mechanic tried to remove them the wrong direction.
I don't remember reading any posts were this has been mentioned.
My U320 is a 95, do any other Foretravel owners have a left hand thread on there wheel studs? How about the Budds? If the lugs are left threaded would the budds also be?
Just want to make sure I avoid a disaster.
Lon, You are right, BUDD nuts and studs are left handed on one side and right handed on the other and now that I try to remember which side my brain has shut down. I BELIEVE that they are marked on the end of the stud. When replacing wheels you should carefully tighten nuts and studs evenly to insure that they are seated correctly. I have seen tire changers slam them tight with air wrenches only to find that the cup shaped nuts and studs are not evenly lined up resulting ion a wobbly wheel.
Gary B
Foretravel motorhomes and most trucks used "Stud Pilot" rims until the late nineties, then began using "Hub Pilot" rims.
"Stud Pilot" rims have tapered stud holes in the rim with tapered nuts, like most cars do, and the nut taper centers the wheel on the hub.
"Hub Pilot" rims have holes with no taper and flat nuts, but have a carefully sized center hole which is a snug fit on a ridge which is carefully machined onto the hub. This center hole centers the rim on the hub.
"Stud Pilot" wheel studs and nuts have right hand threads on the right side (passenger side) and left hand threads on the left side (drivers side).
There is another importance difference between studs/nuts for "Stud Pilot" and "Hub Pilot" wheels on the rear. "Hub Pilot" rear rims are held onto the hub with one nut which when removed leaves the stud in place with the rims loose. With "Stud Pilot" rims, on the rear, the nut holds just the outer rim, which when removed frees up just the outside rim. The motorhome could be driven on the inside rim/tire with the outside rim/tire removed. A "square socket" stud holds the inner rim and when removed leaves threaded holes in the rear hub.
The "Stud Pilot" nuts and studs are all marked with "R" or "RIGHT" on the passenger side and "L" or "LEFT" on the driver side.
I have a Proto 500 ftlb torque wrench which can have the ratchet mechanism installed either way, so it can tighten right or left hand nuts.
I checked mine and can confirm Wyatt's above post. Our 1993 U300 has left hand threads on the driver's side. If you pull the chrome caps, each stud has a "L" stamped on the end.
Want to second Gary's post. Rears are easy to align stud/wheel, tighten and torque with the coach off the ground. Front should be aligned, tightened, lowered to the ground and then torqued.
Pierce
Wyatt,
That's the best explanation of Bud wheel types I have seen.
Giving a new employee a large breaker bar and telling him to remove a Bud wheel was one of the cruel jokes played on them.
Keith
When re assembling the rear wheels with the stud pilot set up, are the Budd studs torqued to 450# when securing the inner wheel. Then the outer wheel is torqued to 450# with the lug nuts ( I plan to use anti seize lube on the threads)?
This question may be self evident when I get to the actual removal. But right now siting in the house without looking at it I'm curious.
Lon, I would not use AntiSieze or any other lube on lug studs. Don't have it at hand but somewhere I have read that this is a no no.
Gary B
We now use a light tread coating of anti-seize on wheel stud threads after a 1st class tire shop put nuts on too tight, and on the next nut removal, two studs broke.
Any lubricant including anti-seize will make 450 foot-pound setting not tight enough, as torque settings are for dry threads. So all lubrication of threads is not recommended, but we put anti-seize on one-time, to keep threads from corroding and for less chance of breaking studs.
Over all the years, we have never seen a tire shop that owns a 500-600 torque wrench.
We do have our wheels taken off and back on when we do slide pin cleaning every 2-3 years and sometimes a torque wrench is used..
We have Budd-nuts.
"But nobody asked the question: "Why do inner and outer cap nuts freeze together in the first place?" The answers are typically things like worn or damaged threads, excessive corrosion or uneven torque between the fasteners. The use of anti-seize compounds on stud-piloted wheels keeps bad fasteners in service longer. When they freeze together, it's usually a sign that the threads are either worn or about to wear out. Anti-seize makes sure they come apart so they're put back on the vehicle. Brilliant.
If that isn't enough, stud-piloted wheel systems require a dry torque, so the use of a lubricant like anti-seize will result in more pounds of clamping force per foot-pound of torque. Among the results are accelerated rates of stud fatigue and ball seat wear. So anti-seize decreases the service life of both the stud and the wheel."
source: Debunking a myth | Equipment content from Fleet Owner (http://fleetowner.com/equipment/tiretracks/fleet_debunking_myth)
Here is another myth: The myth that most tire shops will torque your wheels to anything close to the correct figure. On cars, it's usually a 1/2" impact until the lug won't turn anymore. With a big rig, it's a 1" impact until the nut won't turn anymore. This is what is responsible for the failures. If anyone wonders why it's hard to remove a Foretravel lug nut, it's because someone tightened it to 700-1000 lbs. torque. A generalization but these guys don't usually do rocket science on their other jobs. This is the reason studs/nuts fail or are almost impossible to remove. When you step on your brake pedal and get a pulsating feeling, thank your local tire shop and the overzealous air gun operators.
I have always used either oil or Anti-seize on the first threads and then torqued to specs less 20%. With our Alcoa aluminum wheels, 450 lbs (500 steel wheels) minus 20% is about 360 lbs. If you stand on a bathroom scale and use the very end of a 6 foot pipe on a sliding "T" handle, you can very accurately torque to 350 foot pounds buy applying (or taking away) about 60 lbs to your indicated scale weight. I have removed and replaced hundreds of wheels without ever having a single stud or bolt failure.
Correctly torqued, the AAA guy with his small battery powered impact will be able to remove all 22.5 wheel nuts in 30 seconds. With a flat at a funeral and a suit on, I called AAA and watched him do his magic on our U300 with an open mouth (me, not him). The guy laughed and said his act usually has the same effect on truckers.
Pierce
Pierce is correct.
Lubricant means you torque to a LOWER value. And, I am aware of no axle/hub manufacturer that has torque specs for anything but DRY (no lubricant) specs.