The "Flat Towable List" from Remco, FMCA, Motorhome Magazines, and Manufacturers are incomplete and not totally accurate. These folks do not want the liability they are subjected to if they say "OK to flat tow".
For example:
Most Honda automatics can be safely flat towed, even though Honda now says that only the CRV can be safely flat towed. In the past Honda has said yes with Remco, then no, then yes without Remco, in Technical bulletins. With Honda automatic, idle engine, engage R, then 2nd, then drive, then neutral and shut off. Flat tow is OK. With Honda auto, same procedure as above, except engage drive, then reverse, then neutral will damage transmission because tranny is in "false neutral". Knowing this, if I owned Honda, I would say "do not flat tow".
Most manual shift cars can be flat towed, but be careful, BMW manual trannys have a motor driven (input shaft) lube pump, so motor off, no lube in tranny and smoking hot when flat towed (I believe Audi is the same).
Ford indicated that the BroncoII 4x4 automatic with the Dana 18 transfer case could not be flat towed. I found blogs in 1995 indicating a procedure to over fill the transfer case, and I flat towed my 1984 BroncoII automatic for thousands of miles without incident.
Lexus indicates that the GX470 (4x4) with the VF4B transfer case cannot be flat towed, however, there are folks flat towing GX470 4x4s with out issue. One brave dude started towing his 2007 when it was new and is still towing it today.
Toyota indicates that the automatic 4Runner or FJCruiser with the VF2A transfer case cannot be flat towed. There are several blogs detailing how to flat towing these vehicles.
Subaru indicates that their "All Wheel Drive" cars are flat towable by using neutral in their manual tranny, automatics are "do not flat tow". Does anyone know someone flat towing a Subaru automatic?
My point:
Do not believe the easily available "Flat Towable Lists". Research the internet to find evidence about what really is possible because others are already doing it.
Anyone Flat towing a car which the manufacturer indicates cannot be flat towed?
Wyatt,
I ran into the same BS when Ford claimed I could not tow my F150 w/5 speed manual 2 WD, I contacted Remco, was informed if the 5 peed was the Mazda, just tow it no limits.
Back to Ford, clearly NO, have been towing it over 25,000 miles, ZERO issues except had to replace the two pins on the Blue Ox due to wear.
Interesting points. Saturday I drove 200 miles one way to look at a 2009 Mercury Mariner. FMCA said it was flat towable as is (it was the FWD version, not AWD). The dealer checked with the Ford dealer across the street and got the same information. REMCO said in the first line that it is towable as is. A few lines down, though, they say that it needs a lube pump, $1600 plus installation. The selling dealer claimed that REMCO was pushing the pump because they make and sell them, and the car doesn't need it. We ended up walking out (there were other issues that aren't germane to this discussion).
We've pretty well come down to the Honda CR-V, and looked at one today. Again, didn't buy. From the signatures, it seems that many people on this forum are towing Hondas, which is why we're looking at them. Yes, liability is perhaps the main reason why REMCO won't come out and say that the CR-V can be towed. If someone relies on their information, purchases a Honda, flat tows it, and then has a problem, it would be all too easy to sue REMCO since they hold themselves up as an authority. If old red-neck Bubba down the street posts the same thing, though, it would be pretty hard to prove that Bubba claims to be an authority. One can find nearly anything on the Internet, and just because someone does something and shares their results doesn't mean that someone else will have the same results.
I just looked up the CR-V that we looked at today. This is what REMCO says: "Officially from both Honda and REMCO the vehicle is not towable. However, we at Remco have a large number of customers who are flat-towing that vehicle behind their Motor Home and they are not having any issues. Follow the "Emergency Towing" procedures in the owner's manual to a "T" except ignore the restrictions and follow those procedures each and every time you tow. NOTE: If you choose tow your Honda, and have any damage to the Transmission as a result, you will have to pay for that expense out of pocket. It is nothing that Honda or Remco will warranty. Also, it should be noted that Remco sells no aftermarket product (Lube Pump or otherwise) to make this car towable." The first line says "Towable as is with speed and/or distance restrictions. Please see Owner's Manual for confirmation and procedures." Taken together I choose to accept that this vehicle is a good candidate for a toad.
I appreciate all the advice I've gotten from various people here who have given me answers to my many questions. Wyatt, you make some good points about doing the research. When we first started out looking for a toad we were thinking Smart or FIAT 500. We've since changed directions a bit (call it a reality check) and are looking for vehicles that let us easily enter and exit, rather than those that get better fuel economy but are built low to the ground, hence the CR-V. We looked briefly at some Jeep Patriots that had very attractive prices for brand-new cars (2014 models), but REMCO didn't know about them, and the service guy said he didn't think they would work. Just checked REMCO at the 2013 Patriots are listed as "Towable as is without speed or distance restrictions. See Owner's Manual for confirmation and procedures." However, I still think about that 2009 Mariner that said the same thing at first, and then said a lube pump was needed. It may be that REMCO just wants to sell pumps, but it could also be that the original information from Ford was a bit too optimistic, and the lube pump is a necessity. Might the same thing be true of that Patriot? I don't know. More research is in order.
Anyone Flat towing a car which the manufacturer indicates cannot be flat towed?
I am. It is a 2006 Acura MDX. According to the owner's manual, 2005 is the last flat towable year. My research indicates nothing changed from 2005 to 2006 except the manual. I am careful to follow the procedure, going from drive to neutral then letting it idle, and I change the transmission fluid every 30000 miles with genuine Honda transmission fluid. So far, all is well.
We had a 2001 CRV. Manual said OK to flat tow. Burned out transmission @3,000 miles after following towing instructions to the 'T'. Honda USA refunded purchase $ less depreciation with only one phone call to Honda.
Years later towed a 2011 CRV with no problem but later changed to 2012 Jeep Wrangler Sahara automatic to go off road.
Love the Jeep. Super easy to set up to tow. CRV's were a royal pain in the ... to set to tow but are great cars otherwise. Just had a friend ditch his CRV for Wrangler for the same reason.
Lots of opinions out there. This is a great forum to look for help.
Good luck.
Doug,
We have been flat towing a 2003 Honda Accord (FWD), automatic transmission for 10 years and over 70,000 miles. No isssues (knock on wood). We just followed the recommendations of going from drive to neutral, allowing it to warm up for a minimum of three minutes. If one goes from reverse to neutral without going to drive and back to neutral, you will most certainly destroy the transmission. It was my impression that CRV's were still approved for flat-towing.
Love my towable Honda 2003 Element, but would probably buy Subaru Manual transmission Forester if I was buying today and couldn't find a 2003/2006 Honda
Have towed the Element 04, VW Rabbit, Ford Escort 84, CRV 11, no issues, have looked at the Jeeps, but the $50,000 sticker is more than my pea brain can compremend for a JEEP ?. So guess I am real happy with my F150
Tim, I'd like to have a Forester, too, but the manual transmission ones are unobtanium. I just did a nationwide search on cars.com for a new manual transmission Forester, with no max on price. Nothing. Same result for a used one.
We're looking for a smaller 4WD/AWD SUV with at least some of the luxury touches of my Mountaineer Premier and Jo Ann's Town Car. The ideal trade would be a straight two for one, but I suspect that we'll have to kick some cash in. So far we haven't found anything that really interests us.
My towing has consisted of:
A 1999 Honda CR-V, no problems and I followed the manual's instructions, towing it around 60,000 miles altogether.
Then I bought (and still use) a 2003 Chevy S-10 4x4 quad cab. It has a Remco driveshaft disconnect, so I don't have to worry about "procedures" to keep the tranny happy. Put it in park and pull the cable (and 2 fuses). It has been towed about 20,000 miles. I love the ability to haul extra people, haul material, have 4x4 capability, and even be able to tow 5,000 lbs.
I used a Remco Driveshaft disconnect for a single trip with a 2wd 1997 Ford Ranger (so I could carry a Harley in the 7 ft bed). I sold it after about 2,000 miles of towing as that standard cab was not fun, but a requirement to get the 7' bed.
I also have (and still use) a 2004 Acura MDX that is approved to tow per the manual, but I have only towed that about 3,000 miles.
I really appreciate the simplicity of the rear wheel drive driveshaft disconnect and prefer to tow the Chevy and be able to use it in a larger variety of ways than the other vehicles.
Interesting, my 30 year old kid just bought a "2014" Forrester stick with a bunch of financing incentives (0% for 5 yrs.?) in Chicago area. He now has a 1995 and 2014 Forrester, both manual transmission.
I use to tow a Suzuki Samurai behind our old RV. GREAT toad, so lite you didn't even know it was there. Didn't need any extra breaking attachments.
I would love to find another, in great condition, set up for some off road duty.
Converted my original purchaser from new 1998 accord v6 auto coupe at 160k miles.
Towed it 8k miles since. Drive to neutral.
Going to remco our 07 Toyota solara convertible next.
Love to find a driveline disconnect/tow bar setup for my 2000 superduty 4x4
Bob
It's a bit heavy, but the 07 Tahoe tows no problem. Stick the transfer case in neutral. No full time 4 wd.
Karen and I bought a 2013 Subaru Outback with manual tranny and love it. It has great ground clearance, all wheel drive, and I am averaging 30 mpg. Tows very easy and a comfortable car with lots of room for people and stuff.
We tow a 2005 CRV and it's great. We remove the back seats and have a ton of room for bikes, etc. It also has the factory "picnic table" in the back which we use a lot.
I have had Jeep Wranglers in the past and thought it might be nice to have the off road capability again. Looked at a couple at the local dealer this week and the sticker shock quickly gave me a reality check. Gonna stick with the CRV for now.
D&D
Thanks for all the responses, this has become a great thread.
kb0zke said:
We're looking for a smaller 4WD/AWD SUV with at least some of the luxury touches of my Mountaineer Premier and Jo Ann's Town Car.
Do you mean a "real 4WD/AWD"? Be careful what you purchase if you want to be able to drive through soft sugar sand in California/Arizona.
My 1998 Suzuki X90 has a Sidekick drive train with a two speed transfer case, open differentials, and manual locking front hubs. It is a rear wheel drive based "real 4WD" and will climb a soft sugar sand hill. A Subaru, or Audi, which are "real AWD" will do the same thing. A Toyota 4Runner, Lexus GX470, Nissan Pathfinder, Nissan Xterra, and Land Rovers are rear wheel drive based "real 4WD" and will also climb a soft sugar sand hill.
Most front wheel drive based 4WD/AWD are psuedo 4WD/AWD and will NOT climb a soft sugar sand hill, they will just dig holes with the front tires just like any FWD. In fact, they will not get through sugar sand on level ground. The vehicles in this category are Honda CRV, Accura MDX, Toyota Rav4, Mazda Tribute, Ford Escape, Mercury Mariner, Mazda CX5, Infiniti EX35 and many others. If the vehicle is based on a transverse engine front wheel drive, it probably wont do well in the desert.
It bothers me that Honda and Toyota both put "4WD" on their CRV or RAV4. In my opinion, it is deceitful because they do not perform like a "real 4WD", so buyer beware.
Both the CRV and the RAV4 are great vehicles, if you are OK with FWD. I will never own a FWD because I do not like how they drive.
I just use a tow dolly. Can tow any front wheel drive, some rear/4wd...or any rear drive if you put it on backwards (though "they" say don't do it).
One beauty of the dolly is I don't have to rig up a vehicle which costs at least $500 per vehicle. If I want to tow a tiny tercel, I pull it. If I'll need more space, I tow my trailblazer. Normally, I just have a motorcycle on the back.
The Kar Kaddy tow dolly takes about 5 minutes to put the car on or off. It's great.
I know it's generally frowned upon to revive dead threads but I don't see the harm in adding more material to the archives for searching. I have towed a 2005 Lexus GX470 with the manual transfer case over 20,000 miles. Set the transfer case in Neutral, leave the lexus in park, key on acc to unlock the steering wheel, pull radio fuse 1, radio fuse 2, dome and RR AC fuse, turn off the front a/c and you're good to go. Leave those fuses in and you'll have a dead battery within 5 hours. The nav and the rear a/c use a ton of electricity. This has been the perfect TOAD btw. It can tow an enormous 6700 pounds itself capably because of the rear air bags and real truck frame. It has amazing offroad capabilities (using Goodyear Wrangler M/S tires), has a supple ride and tows surprisingly well for the shorter wheelbase. Only drawbacks so far are poor fuel economy (16mpg overall), peeling paint on wheels, poor quality sticky OE calipers, sticky driveshaft ($400 part). Oh that and it more or less lacks any type of sportiness but it does take off like a scalded cat if you ask it to.6
EDIT: Forgot the other problem. The GX470 is pretty heavy. Like 5000+ pounds.
I've said this before but I'll say it again. I think that the 2-door Jeep Wrangler is an almost perfect toad. Light, narrow and short, our Wrangler with just a soft top and half-doors (and fabric tops) it weighs in at only 3100 lbs without fuel and oil. And so is only 1,000 pounds heavier than the max GCVW for our U225 if the coach is maxxed with people, gear, fuel, water, and dump tanks.
It will not only carry you (legally) to dinner in town, but will also carry you over roads you really don't want to drive on. And get you back. Most Jeeps also have unequalled roll-over protection, too.
We have a roof rack that is supported by the windshield brackets and the rear bumper (the soft top is not that great for a roof rack) so we can put a canoe (or two kayaks) and we can still hang two bicycles on the back.
We get 21-22 mpg with our 4-cyl, 5-speed Jeep.
Best of all, we just welded a tow fitting and bought a $79 towbar from Harbor Freight. Less than $100 for the tow gear and a Brake Buddy ($300 from craigslist) to comply with the laws.
4-down with transfer case in neutral and gear shift in 5th gear. We use magnetic lights right now for the turn signals.
Cost was $4,000 set up for back country exploring and 115,000 miles on the odometer. 1999 JK.
Craig
I prefer the jeep, but it just individual taste I think. If you look ahead, what is being added to the towable lines?
I think I heard the dodge dealer (or was it gmc) tell me that they were coming back with a towable small pickup. That would be a good option for us if we did not have the jeeps.
Mike
I tow a 2013 chevy sonic its a simple hook up only weighs 2700lbs carries four adults and gets great milage when we are camped and seeing the various areas.
We've towed a 2000 4wd automatic Toyota Forerunner about 40,000 miles for almost 10 years. It did require quite a bit of investment up front for modifications, including tow brackets, lighting harness, M&G brakes and a drive shaft disconnect. The drive shaft disconnect is the only thing out of the ordinary to make it towable. The Forerunner has been the most reliable vehicle we have ever owned and it's been a great tow vehicle.
We tow a 2011 Nissan Xterra. We checked out the dingy guide from FMCA and it and the Jeep Wrangler were the only cars we had interest in. The Xterra was about $10k less than the Jeep. No brainer for us. The only issue with the Xterra is it must be the manual transmission oh and the gas milage sucks. 19mpg around town. About the same as the Jeep.
see ya
ken
Glad this one came back to life as I may be in market for another tow car if the Tracker cannot be fixed. I am leaning to a CRV, Ruth has one but I am not allowed to tow that and the Bentley Continental is too heavy!! but if I can find another good condition Tracker that would be great as I have a tow bar off the back of mine and the setup for front along with the rear wiring for trailer etc. Anyone know of one for sale?
johnH
also consider Honda ELement is you want a good dual purpose vehicle ( I use mine as a truck and a car)
Have been flat towing a '05 Toyota RAV4 AWD manual transmission for several years. We run the engine for 5 minutes every 300 miles as recommended. A super vehicle for any condition and just under the 3000 lbs brake limit for most states.
Pierce
Requires a pump kit but we are going to tow our Toyota solara convertible. No substitute for the top down where the weather is in the high "7's"
And putting on a small hitch receiver on it and put our prodeco electric bikes on a thule rack on the back.
Prodeco Outlaw ss and a thule 9032 if anyone wants the info.....
1997 Geo Tracker 4x4 4 door (http://spokane.craigslist.org/ctd/4661473787.html)
1997 Geo Tracker Soft Top 4X4 (http://spokane.craigslist.org/ctd/4660170286.html)
1997 Geo Tracker for sale super clean! (http://kpr.craigslist.org/cto/4652079892.html)
97 geo tracker convertible (http://spokane.craigslist.org/cto/4647836393.html)
http://yakima.craigslist.org/ctd/4632279567.html (http://yakima.craigslist.org/ctd/4632279567.html)
More on craigslist all over central WA.
Craig
We have a '99 CR-V and are looking at replacing it. Research says that the 2007 & newer models are much better and quieter on the road. Early models (2007) had defective A/C compressors that imploded and contaminated the system. $2,000 fix. Make sure it's been done. Both the CR-V and RDX are towable if you follow the correct procedure.
Keith
Craig, thanks for the links but I have already looked at most of them and one thing that has opened my eyes is that any in Washington are way more expensive than what they are here in BC and then I have to add 10% for exchange. I am going to use the ads I printed off to show the ins co that if I want to replace mine with a 2001 or 2 it is going to cost me way more than book value. I then have to fit it out for towing. Hope they fix mine as it is in good shape.(except for the bent parts :)) )
JohnH
I will be towing a 98 Suzuki Sidekick which was a toad before I bought it. Suzuki and Trackers are both towable as they both have transfercases which can be
put into neutral for towing. After 2004 they become allwheel drive and I don't think they are towable.
From what I've read all of the CR-Vs are towable, but I believe only some years of the RDX are towable. It's important to verify the status of each year's model. Also, it sounds as if the CR-V will be changing to a Continuously Variable Transmission for the 2015 model year. Those transmissions are generally not capable of being flat towed, and so I will be curious to find their status when the 2015 models arrive.
Hope today or Friday to hear from Ins as mine now has only 9 vehicles to be estimated on in front. Seems this local office is now responsible for a very large rural area and with only 3 guys doing it!
Found a really good 99 CRV in eceptional condition that came from Japan (rt hand drive) and was not in the Tsunami. We get a lot of cars from there as once a car is 10yrs old it has to be scrapped or taken out of Japan. I was thinking that if I buy it I can then take it with me to England and use instead of renting :P :P
JohnH