Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: propman on August 26, 2013, 12:50:38 pm
Title: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: propman on August 26, 2013, 12:50:38 pm
I need advice/opinion please. I have a 94/U225. I understand that the 2 8D Acid batteries are installed and operate in parallel, which i understand it is Positive to Positive and negative to negative connection; with this they operates in 12V (not 24V as in Serial connection, + to - to + to -) So with parallel use we get more usage time. One of my Rayovac Ultra Pro SLi8DA house batterie failed the load test and visually it is also appears to be old. The other one is fairly new and pass the load test. We don't dry camp and don't plan on dry camping for a while. So my question is would i be ok just using one house batterie for a while ... until the good one also gets old. I am thinking maybe later on i will get two AGM batteries. Now my main concern is the charging system; would it be ok with one batterie moved out and just operating with one. I understand that later on if i upgrade to AGM, I will also have to upgrade the charging system or set the charging system to do the AGM kind charging?
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on August 26, 2013, 01:10:34 pm
Propman, Sounds like a plan to me BUT What do you have for an inverter ? Inverter will drain one battery pretty quickly. AGM's would be a better choice but if you don't have a charger that is compatible will be a waste of money by themselves. Flooded 8D's are fairly cheap, why not buy a new one. Granted that batteries should be changed out in pairs but if new one is in good condition I would take a chance if it was me. Gary B
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 26, 2013, 01:47:30 pm
An older single battery that gets a deep discharge won't last too long. If you don't dry camp much, that may not be too much of a problem. Gary's 8D solution is a very economical fix. A couple of these from Sam's Club won't be much over $200 for both. Check Craigslist for solar batteries. I bought a group 31 commercial battery for $40 so 4 of these won't break the bank either. Several good blogs where dry campers swear by Trojan T-105 batteries. I had a couple in my 4107 bus and they worked well. Here is an informative site with an installation that works including the sine wave inverter: Trojan 6 Volt Batteries RV Install | Love Your RV! (http://www.loveyourrv.com/trojan-battery/) Excellent photos and clean installation.
Any non-factory modification will require a bit of DIY ability but not difficult with just a few tools.
Pierce
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: wolfe10 on August 26, 2013, 01:55:50 pm
If no inverter (or very limited use) and little dry camping, a single 8D will be just fine for a house battery.
Brett
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 26, 2013, 05:07:03 pm
You are ok to use one battery, just disconnect the bad one. In fact any size battery would work. Charger basically does not need to know how large batteries are. Charger just wants to know at what voltage to charge, which changes with type of battery, not size of battery. If you don't dry camp, you can use any battery size, even auto size.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: propman on August 26, 2013, 05:31:54 pm
Thank you. I think i am going to try and get by with single 8D batterie for now. My main goal is to eventually get AGM that's why I did not want to buy another acid batterie now. I just rather have maintenance free AGM batteries. Right now I am spending few $$ improving the MH so I am trying to save some $$$ where i can and later on i can get AGM.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: Dwayne on August 26, 2013, 10:02:24 pm
My rig only ever had one house and one coach battery. Shortly after purchasing it I was getting the propane alarm constantly which discovered was caused by low voltage. I bit the bullet and bought two 8D AGM batteries and have been trouble free after the initial hiccup of overcharging with the dino converter/charger. After installing the PD unit with float and charge wizard...no problems. One house battery seems to work just fine for us but we don't dry camp.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: propman on August 26, 2013, 11:56:26 pm
Dwayne, "After installing the PD unit with float and charge wizard" can u tell me what brand/part are they? You did this to be able to use AGM batteries correct? Thank you, AL
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: PatC on August 27, 2013, 11:55:13 am
Al, PD = RV and Motorhome Power Converters from Progressive Dynamics (http://www.progressivedyn.com/power_converters.html). The PD9200 has a built in charge wizard. I installed the PD9270 which is 70 amp. I also installed the optional Pendant to monitor the built-in Charge Wizard and also allows manual mode selection.
If you get the PD9100 series you need to order the optional Charge Wizard Pendant.
Make sure you order the proper pendant, depending on which model converter you order!!! The Converter Status Remote Pendant PD92201 for the PD9200. The PD9105 Charge Wizard for the PD9100. If you get the PD9200 converter, the Status Remote Pendant is not necessary, and just a nice added convenience to see what the charger is doing from your coach cabin.
The unit can be used as is for flooded cell and AGM batteries, or you can use a IC jumper (purchased at Radio Shack or any other electronic supply store) to change the charge output to handle GEL batteries. Progressive Dynamics customer service is exellent and just a phone call away. You actually can talk to a tech when you call!
I purchased mine from a Ebay store, Jammy, Maxxima items in R and P Carriages Trailer Sales store on eBay! (http://stores.ebay.com/randpcarriagestrailersales) which I have used in the past for towing equipment. they currently have one on sale buy it now for $164.78 and 9.80 shipping. They are also available online from BestConverter - Converters, Inverters, Electrical Supplies, Electronics (http://www.bestconverter.com/). Best Converter also has excellent customer service, and its owner and head tech, Randy, is available to guide you thru installation and set up.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: propman on August 27, 2013, 03:02:16 pm
Very nice. Thank you Pat. When my GV is plugged in to shore power I hear constant humming sound. I think it comes from converter, not sure. I am not sure if saw it on here or elsewhere some of these new converters do not produce humming sound, does yours, the PD9270? Thank you, AL
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: wa_desert_rat on August 27, 2013, 03:15:46 pm
Very nice. Thank you Pat. When my GV is plugged in to shore power I hear constant humming sound. I think it comes from converter, not sure. I am not sure if saw it on here or elsewhere some of these new converters do not produce humming sound, does yours, the PD9270?
Al... I threw out my old charger/converter as my first upgrade. It constantly hummed. The new PD version (with pendant) is silent and does not boil out the water (well, not as fast... hot weather still does that some). I only bought the 45-A version (which is what the old dinosaur was rated at, I am pretty sure).
The charger is located right behind the entry steps on my '93 U225... accessible from the longest storage bay on the driver's side but you have to crawl in and lay there to work on it. I have Joey-bed (extended floor you can roll in and out) and DW and I worked together; one of us would lay on the bed and the other would push it in and pull it out (and hand tools through the small compartment just aft of the fuel/propane bay). Tons of fun!
Craig :)
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: Kent Speers on August 27, 2013, 05:52:16 pm
I used my 93, U225 which did not have an inverter for three years with on 8D, Lead Acid battery from Sam's Club. I also carried a 4D as a backup but it was out of the circuit most of the time because it was not needed. For starting I used two series 31 interstate batteries. We did a fair amount of boon docking with the single 8D, sometimes up to a week, and could go two or three days on the one fully charged 8D with some conservation. We even ran an 19" LED TV a couple of hours at night using a Delco, cigarette lighter plug, 140 watt inverter.
If you are not boon docking, you should do fine with one Lead Acid 8D.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: propman on August 27, 2013, 11:23:25 pm
Thank you all very much. I am going to go with one 8D for a while, see how it goes.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: Tom Lang on August 28, 2013, 01:14:36 am
You will be fine. That is more battery than you will find in the typical 36' sob gasser of 1994, and maybe even today.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: PatC on August 28, 2013, 12:17:42 pm
You will be fine. That is more battery than you will find in the typical 36' sob gasser of 1994, and maybe even today.
Lots more. But my two 8D AGMs are fantastic when driving south from upstate NY in route to Florida in February. Have to run the furnace, the fridge, the lights, the computer, and at night my CPAP breathing machine. Since I have replaced the dying GEL 8D batteries life has been so much better cause I don't worry about running out of 12 volt juice anymore. Before the furnace would die in the middle of the night because of low power from the old batteries.
And I before I replaced the batteries, I replaced the converter/charger cause the old style converter was not good for the batteries. Over charged them with the same voltage all the time. Smart chargers are so much better for batteries - all types of batteries!! But you have to tell them what kind of batteries they are charging!!! - because different types of batteries require different charging voltages and rates.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: Dwayne on August 28, 2013, 01:41:55 pm
I went with the 45 amp unit. I don't have the pendant but the charge wizard is built into the unit. Mine was located under entry steps too and that snaking in from the offshore side is a lot of fun.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: propman on November 15, 2013, 01:45:51 pm
Al, PD = RV and Motorhome Power Converters from Progressive Dynamics (http://www.progressivedyn.com/power_converters.html). The PD9200 has a built in charge wizard. I installed the PD9270 which is 70 amp. I also installed the optional Pendant to monitor the built-in Charge Wizard and also allows manual mode selection.
If you get the PD9100 series you need to order the optional Charge Wizard Pendant.
Make sure you order the proper pendant, depending on which model converter you order!!! The Converter Status Remote Pendant PD92201 for the PD9200. The PD9105 Charge Wizard for the PD9100. If you get the PD9200 converter, the Status Remote Pendant is not necessary, and just a nice added convenience to see what the charger is doing from your coach cabin.
The unit can be used as is for flooded cell and AGM batteries, or you can use a IC jumper (purchased at Radio Shack or any other electronic supply store) to change the charge output to handle GEL batteries. Progressive Dynamics customer service is exellent and just a phone call away. You actually can talk to a tech when you call!
I purchased mine from a Ebay store, Jammy, Maxxima items in R and P Carriages Trailer Sales store on eBay! (http://stores.ebay.com/randpcarriagestrailersales) which I have used in the past for towing equipment. they currently have one on sale buy it now for $164.78 and 9.80 shipping. They are also available online from BestConverter - Converters, Inverters, Electrical Supplies, Electronics (http://www.bestconverter.com/). Best Converter also has excellent customer service, and its owner and head tech, Randy, is available to guide you thru installation and set up.
Pat sorry to bother you with this again. Back in August you had shared your experience with me, how you upgraded the converter for you 94/U225 with a PD9270 which is 70 amp. I was going to order this finally and wanted to installed this weekend, but I am struggling with 45 amp vs 70 amp. I like to purchase the 70 amp as you have but did you have to upgrade replace wiring when you went from 45 amp to 70 amp? I prefer not do any new wire runs if i can help it, perhaps just a fuse upgrade. When you installed yours did you have to do anything else in addition to converter box upgrade from 45 amp old to new 70 amp PD9270? I assume your original one was also located on passenger side second bay behind the fuel bay? Did you use the same location or move closer to batteries? Since i don't care to run new wires perhaps i should just stick with 45 amp? According to information on Barry's doc's 94 U225 was installed with a 45 amp converter/charger and 93 was installed with a 75amp. I have 94/U225 Thank you, Al
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: wa_desert_rat on November 15, 2013, 01:55:47 pm
I installed the 45-Amp charger/converter on our '93 U225 and I'm pretty sure the unit I removed was also 45-A. Although liquid 8D batteries can handle up to 73-Amps of charging current, if you install Gels then the maximum is 40-Amps. The only real advantage to a 70-A converter/charger is that you will get faster charging on the generator. The wire run to the batteries from the charger is quite short so wire size is probably not a huge issue but should be considered.
Craig
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: propman on November 16, 2013, 12:05:43 pm
Thank you Craig.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: Kent Speers on November 16, 2013, 03:58:03 pm
I am a little confused. Most of the current offerings of converter/chargers have smart chargers. Won't the smart charger regulate the amperage output according to the needs of the battery. If I recall, I put an Iota 90 amp (it might have been 70 amps) converter/charger in my previous 93, U225 based on that assumption. It sure charged the batteries quickly but I never considered that it might have overcharged the 8D lead acid battery I had for the house. Now you have me thinking.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: propman on November 16, 2013, 06:06:46 pm
Since new converters are intelligent ... 3 or 4 stage chargers there should not be any issue with over charging the battery, however the "load" which the amperage can over cook the cables if they are not thick enough to handle a 70 or 90 amp.
--OK I figure it out. It has 4GA wires from converter to batteries so 70 amp converter is safe.
Title: Re: House Batteries run single or double.
Post by: philtravel on November 17, 2013, 05:33:44 pm
Re: The humming sound it could be from the transfer switch or switches. I don't know where your transfer switches are located in relation to the converter but if they are close to each other they do hum when running on bat. power sometimes.