Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: rpettway on October 13, 2013, 02:10:32 am
Title: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 13, 2013, 02:10:32 am
I continue to search for a Foretravel. I have looked at MOT, FOT, Foreforum, Oodle, RVT, and practically every Craigslist add in the US. Initially, I didn't even bother looking at the GV because I didn't really like the appearance. But, after looking at them more and more, they are kind of growing on me. Especially after seeing a couple on this post with updated full body paint. So, my question to you, the experts, is what are the advantages/disadvantages to owning a GV as opposed to the mid to late 90s model U270/U295/U320? My friend that introduced me to Foretravels several months ago had driven many different models and said that he liked the GV because you sit up so high when you drive them. I would love to hear your thoughts on this subject. Especially those of you that have owned both styles.
Thanks,
Rory
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: John S on October 13, 2013, 07:59:00 am
They made a Grandvillas style up to about 02 or 03. So you can have a GV newer as well. Some of the bigger differences is lighter mostly mechanical engines all are mid entry and the seem to get better fuel milage too.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: nitehawk on October 13, 2013, 08:03:16 am
We like to cook outside a lot so having the mid-entry door by the kitchen makes it a lot easier to pass things in and out. It keeps the foot traffic down in the living room area as well.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: sawdust316 on October 13, 2013, 08:23:25 am
Good Morning:
We considered the GV style for the reason they were less in initial cost. However after looking at numerous pictures of the inside we decided to go with the late 90's model. The reason is the DW has some disabilities and could not get up that large step to the co-pilot seat. We ended up with our 98' U270 and she has no problem. We also like the flat front. Also the front entry is easier for her to climb.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: fouroureye on October 13, 2013, 08:43:07 am
Greetings
Grand Villas are Cool! Always have folks asking about our coach.
Stylish looking, simple systems, easy upgrades
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 13, 2013, 10:00:44 am
I really liked my 1999 36'Gran Villa, and agree you sit up high. It was on Oshkosh chassis, and I would only consider a UniHome, not an OshKosh based chassis if I was looking now. The 1999 36 U-270 drove better, had more storage, and is more "modern looking" Being newer, upgrades are easier to rationalize. Perfect coach for us is the one we have 200 U-320 with a single slide.
Mid entry means you dont have as long a walk to the bathroom and kitchen when you first enter, which in 90% of the time are your primary initial destinations. Sitting up high very cool, but TV is usual down low, I do like it up high.
What does your budget allow? Late nineties Uni coach vs early nineties UniHome with a bunch of upgrades similar in coast IF you find one that already has nice Full Body Paint like Kent Speers has.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 13, 2013, 11:44:05 am
Happy Birthday Norm. Thank you for your service.
Rory
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 13, 2013, 11:44:26 am
With any used motorhome, the initial expenditure is only the start unless you are a good DIYer. Even then, there are many little things that still will go wrong and older systems that WILL need upgrading. So, of the total RV budget, spend less on the coach with some cash set aside for a new fridge, roof ACs, tires, air bags, etc. Finding a good rig is the next step with many looking pretty good but needing work. I would avoid any from the northern states as many (but not all) will have corrosion damage underneath. Corrosion and or bulkhead damage may mean oil changes, etc. were not watched that carefully too.
GV vs. Bus Style: I love the look of the GV with it's deco styling. Not the best design for the decals but like you posted, a good paint job can do wonders. The U280/300 has a seating position several inches higher than any big rig, RV or fire truck. It's way up there. Great for sightseeing but also has a bit of a learning curve judging lane position, speed plus a small blind spot below the passenger's mirror.
The GV has wasted space in the nose. With a little bit better planning, a generator could have been installed there and would have given an extra compartment for storage. 102"s wide is also a plus. Mid entry is better if you spend a lot of time outside in campgrounds. EZ access to the kitchen with beer only a few seconds away. I would only consider a side radiator coach as the rear radiator makes maintenance really difficult. If I had a rear radiator, the first thing I would do would be to put it on the roof (like some Euro buses) or plumb for a couple of nose radiators.
36' vs 40': I love our 36 footer but with a large family, RV paved campground overnights, the 40 footer is good with more storage inside and below and has the washer/dryer. If you live out west, the National Parks and state facilities have limited access for anything over 36 feet. 36' is easier to drive in cities, especially if sightseeing off the metro bus routes where tight turns in heavy traffic may pop up.
Propane water heater is my choice. It may be a little noisy but if the Aquahot goes down in a remote location, you may be in trouble as service can be hundreds of miles away. We have an extra propane heater in the main salon just in case the OEM goes south.
So, my first choice is a 1993 or later U300 36' long with a U280 right in there too. The U300 with the 6V-92TA is a little better for pulling a trailer or high altitude but the Cummins 8.3 is also a good engine. 1995 and later CATs would be also good. Lower profile GVs with the 5.9 Cummins are also excellent with better fuel mileage in mixed driving. Be prepared to go anywhere in the U.S. to take delivery. These are not high volume motorhomes so finding a perfect one takes time but well worth the effort.
Pierce
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 13, 2013, 11:52:51 am
Thanks Pierce. How do you know whether the radiator is side mounted or rear mounted?
Rory
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on October 13, 2013, 12:03:31 pm
Rory, I have driven both and for ease of driving and overall confort in the drivers seat I love the GV ( mine is for sale ). I love the looks I get from the truckers when I pass them and look at them at eye level. And you can see over the traffic ahead of you much better. Except for minor blind spots the visibility is better in my opinion in a GV, you just have to learn to MISTRUST your mirrors and rely on your minute to minute observation of traffic around you ( true in all coaches ). The rear radiator and big hatch for the engine are a definite plus in the GV Unihomes. Gary B
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on October 13, 2013, 12:13:23 pm
Gary, you say the rear radiator is a plus, I would surely prefer the side radiator, allowing access to the engine. The rear radiator makes for big misery to access the engine ?
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: wolfe10 on October 13, 2013, 12:49:32 pm
Let me clarify. There are Granvillas with side radiators and those with rear radiators. All U225's are rear radiator. Some pre 1993 other models are rear radiator.
Yes, a side radiator makes engine access a LOT easier. But, it does add the complexity of a hydraulic system to drive the fan motor(s).
Brett
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Brad & Christine Slaughter on October 13, 2013, 12:50:30 pm
Lots of opinions...and both designs are great in my opinion. I did notice that I seemed to gain space when I moved to the Unicoach I have now, since the front passenger seat is down on the same level as the rest of the living room and doubles as the "front" curbside seat when swiveled around to become part of the living room. With the GV, there is another chair at floor level that takes a couple of extra feet. But I love the exterior of the old GV. I always advise folks who ask to just figure out what they want to spend, and then go find whatever year FT fits that budget! None are disappointing to me.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on October 13, 2013, 01:09:51 pm
Correct on the simple complexity of the side radiator vs the impossibility of engine access with the rear radiator. So it comes down to being able to do the simple maintenance vs wishing you could reach the part you are after from underside or down thru the bedroom. Very simple choice if your doing the work, if you pay for all you needs, it will be a little more expensive. MO
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: jor on October 13, 2013, 01:16:35 pm
Quote
Correct on the simple complexity of the side radiator vs the impossibility of engine access with the rear radiator.
You can say that again. Those babies are really difficult to do anything on. Professional mechanics also hate them. Go for the side radiator. Unicoach or Unihome? It's really a matter of personal preference. We prefer the look and feel of the GVs and the mid entry but you can't go wrong with a Unicoach either. Just make sure you get the engine and transmission you like. jor
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Brad & Christine Slaughter on October 13, 2013, 01:23:11 pm
After having a retarder, that is likely the biggest issue now for me. Gotta have one, with a joystick.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 13, 2013, 01:46:46 pm
Thanks Pierce. How do you know whether the radiator is side mounted or rear mounted?
Rory
Rory,
The side radiator models have a big grill on the side at the rear.
Late GVs (1995 on as I remember) have a removable rear bumper that can come in handy to get into the rear area. Also like the recessed ICC lights.
Passenger's seat on a GV has a MUCH more private/personal feel. Almost like a co-pilot in a big jet cockpit. You do lose a little space that way in the rest of the coach.
Retarder is owner's choice. Everything is steep up or down in Northern California. Jake works very well with toad on the steepest hill, is simple and has no potential high maintenance costs. I never wish for anything more. Later GVs have big disk brakes all the way around.
Pierce
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: JohnFitz on October 13, 2013, 02:55:29 pm
The side radiator models have a big grill on the side at the rear.
And Foretravels are unique in that the radiator is always on the passenger side of the coach. Other makers always put them on the drivers side. I believe all Unihomes/Unicoaches have disks on all four wheels - even my old '91. Having a retarder or a Jake is very big plus. It's my understanding that GV were made up to '95. In 2000-2003 there were some new generation GV320/GV295's made but very few. Foretravel brought back the styling but apparently they just didn't sell well. I think the interior space advantage of the bus style won out. Personally I think the GV320 is nicest looking coach on the exterior out there.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: twobus on October 13, 2013, 03:53:45 pm
I haven't seen the disadvantage to a rear radiator setup yet. It doesn't clog up with road debris that I can see so far, the filters are located right behind an access door, and raising the mattress gets you the entire engine bay. The one issue I have is how the radiator fill is tight up underneath a bulkhead; you can juuuust get a skinny funnel in the gap to add coolant. I'll take that trade over not having to worry about fan hydraulics.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on October 13, 2013, 03:59:13 pm
Correction, I meant REAR Hatch, side radiator. Sorry Gary B
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: wolfe10 on October 13, 2013, 04:11:18 pm
I believe all Unihomes/Unicoaches have disks on all four wheels - even my old '91.
No, that is also model dependent. ORED's, U225's and U240's are drum brake.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: RRadio on October 13, 2013, 04:38:10 pm
The rear radiator doesn't block access to anything I need to get to on the engine. I had my radiator out and specifically looked for anything on the engine that I could service with the radiator out, but I didn't find anything. Everything I need to get to is accessible from the top of the engine with the bed open, or from underneath while rolling around on a creeper. Don't let serviceability be a factor in your decision between rear or side radiator because it's really a non-issue. This is coming from someone who has removed the radiator and specifically looked for stuff to service that's blocked by the radiator. The rear radiator models have several huge advantages over the side radiator models, not the least of which being the purchase price. The side radiator model of the U300 cost almost twice as much as the rear radiator model when I was shopping for my coach last year. The side radiator models have complicated hydraulic fan systems that are prone to leaks and mechanical failures, and many of parts aren't available anymore. You can easily find yourself stranded in a rural area waiting for your hydraulic motor to be sent out for a rebuild. The hydraulic motors and pumps cost as much to rebuild as the radiator, which is to say a couple thousand dollars in many cases. The rear radiator models have three fan belts, which are easily available at any small town auto parts store. I suspect the rear radiator's fan belt setup wastes a lot less horsepower than the side radiator's hydraulic pump and motors, which I believe is also belt driven, adding the hydraulic drag to the fan belt drag. The rear radiator models have plenty of room to add one or two side radiators later if you discover that you need more cooling. If you remove the huge muffler from the driver's side you can have two side radiators and your original rear radiator. I wouldn't even consider a side radiator model with hydraulic fans, especially after taking out my rear radiator and having plenty of time to think about things in perspective... Now this part is very important, on the rear radiator models you must replace the fiberglass fan with a nylon fan immediately, because the fiberglass fans always explode and almost always take out the radiator and leave you stranded when they do. The radiator will cost a couple thousand dollars to rebuild and you'll be stranded for days (or months) and have plenty of time to wish you'd put in a nylon fan. Once you've got a nylon fan you're all set with a trouble free cooling system. About the only thing to worry about after that is the fan belts, which are super easy to change, and the condition of your antifreeze, also super easy to change. The radiator hoses are a special high silicone that lasts a very long time so you probably won't have to replace them.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: wolfe10 on October 13, 2013, 05:10:21 pm
Scott,
I disagree on a couple of points. Accessibility with a side radiator is a lot easier for the following items on most engines:
Alternator, water pump, idler pulley/belt tensioner, thermostat on many models, etc.
And side radiators WITH controllers for the fan(s) use less HP, as they are two speed/variable speed, whereas rear radiator fans run all the time whether needed for cooling or not.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: JohnFitz on October 13, 2013, 05:20:43 pm
I disagree on a couple of points. Accessibility with a side radiator is a lot easier for the following items on most engines:
Alternator, water pump, idler pulley/belt tensioner, thermostat on many models, etc.
And side radiators WITH controllers for the fan(s) use less HP, as they are two speed/variable speed, whereas rear radiator fans run all the time whether needed for cooling or not.
Brett, I agree about accessibility being easier with a side radiator, but the 6V92 on the U300s does have thermostatic air valve that engages an air clutch on the fan pulley hub.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Dave Cobb on October 13, 2013, 05:35:45 pm
We have had both styles, a GV Unihome, and now a Unicoach. The GV fit our entry budget to see how much we might enjoy and use a RV.
Had for 2 years the U225 GV, and we loved the style, the cleaner front end after a day's travel, and the mid door entry. The raised driver and passenger seat were wonderful for traveling views. The wife enjoyed having her "copilot nest" that was not the entry like on a forward door coach. The 36' length was perfect for the places we wedged it into as well.
Down side was the rear radiator, non disc brakes, non air bag suspension, and smaller bays. But those items were not deal killers for our first try. There are many happy owners with more miles on those coaches than I hoped to ever drive.
Our upgrade this year to a Unicoach, got us the side radiator, air bags, disc brakes, taller bays, and much more. We were lucky to find one of the very rare mid door 36' Unicoaches made. We have so enjoyed the flat floor, and the additional space gained with the flat front design.
It has been mentioned, know your budget, have your reserve, then look at every Foretravel you can find, both for sale and not, to know when you find the "right one".
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: RRadio on October 13, 2013, 07:31:03 pm
There isn't anything I need to get to that's obstructed by the radiator in my coach. I specifically looked for items that I should service while I had the radiator out. The alternator is on the top of my engine and is easily changed in a matter of minutes, I did it just the other day. I've never changed the water pump and I don't know of anyone on this forum that ever has changed a 6V92 water pump. I suspect I can change it from the bottom of the engine. I'll look at that again the next time I'm down there. The water pump is not a normal maintenance item, it's a repair. Most readers on this forum would pay a mechanic to do a repair like that. It would be silly to pay an extra $10,000+ to buy a coach with failure prone hydraulic fans with no parts availability just so a mechanic could change a water pump a little easier once every 20+ years. My water pump is 24 years old and it's still the original and it works great. The idler pulley and belt tensioner is accessed from the top of the engine and it's a one man job. I've done it myself and it's not difficult at all. There are two thermostats on the 6V92 and they're both on top of the cylinder heads where they can be accessed with the bed up. Again, the thermostats are a repair, not normal maintenance, and most readers on this forum will hire a mechanic for that. The 6V92 with rear radiator has a pneumatic fan clutch that freewheels the fan until the temperature in the passenger side cylinder head gets hot enough, then it begins to engage. The fan clutch seldom runs the fan at full speed. If I'm not mistaken the side radiator models have belt driven hydraulic pumps, so the hydraulic resistance is added to the belt resistance. Hydraulics are very inefficient so I'm guessing this wastes a lot more horsepower than just a belt around a pneumatic clutch. The hydraulic pump, motors, and hoses add a lot of extra weight, cost, complexity, leakage and mechanical failures to the cooling system. There's no way I'd ever buy a coach with hydraulic fans now that I've worked on my coach with the belt driven fan. If you guys haven't actually removed a rear radiator and seen what's back there please don't provide false information. Readers want to base their purchase on accurate information. I got this same false information about the side radiator being superior to the rear radiator before I bought my coach. In my case it didn't matter because I couldn't afford a side radiator model anyway... and I'm sooo glad
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: arwilson on October 13, 2013, 07:36:30 pm
I purchased a 1992 36' GV Unihome a little over a year ago. Since I bought it I have rebuilt the brakes, installed a new rear torsilatic suspension, inverter/controlled battery charger, 5,000 watt second inverter, new front furnace and water heater, and new tires all the way around..
I expected to do the foregoing and still have some work to do on less major issues.
I have driven it almost 6,000 miles and I would not trade it for anything.
I frequently drive in Wyoming (the state where if the wind stops blowing the citizens fall over) and found that it is one of the best vehicles on the open road in the high wind I have driven in over 1,000,000 miles of driving including about 500,00 in an eighteen wheeler.
In my opinion it would be very difficult to go wrong buying a GV of any vintage.
Have at it and enjoy, they are built like a Sherman tank but handle like a large pickup.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: sawdust316 on October 13, 2013, 07:46:14 pm
Rory;
Thanks for the birthday wish and Sempher Fi. BTW if, correction, when you get your FT be sure to make it to Virginia just south of Wash DC, to the Marine Corp Museum, but plan on spending at least 2 days we have to go back. It is not owned or operated by the government.
We got our U270 at MOT, Great people. As is said in my original post it was the floor level for us. After putting several miles on the coach I began liking it even more. Just can't say enough good things about FT. Our previous coach was a rear radiator, gettin to old to be climbing down into that compartment to do some services.
Anyway good luck in finding the FT you want. Listen to the folks on this forum they are very knowledgeable and have lots of miles behind them. A day doesn't go by that I don't read this forum. Fantastic information.
Norm
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Kent Speers on October 13, 2013, 08:55:11 pm
Brett, I agree about accessibility being easier with a side radiator, but the 6V92 on the U300s does have thermostatic air valve that engages an air clutch on the fan pulley hub.
John, I don't believe my 93, U300 has a thermostatic air valve or a fan pulley hub. Are you sure all years of 6V92's have them? I could be wrong?
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 13, 2013, 09:04:42 pm
Thanks Norm. Yes, I have been to the Marine Corps Museum a couple of times, but would love to go again. I'm sure we will get up that way again once we get our FT.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on October 13, 2013, 09:09:33 pm
Rory, Another member of the USMC, I live within 75 miles of the museum and never been there, shame on me. My question, parking for the Coach an issue or not ? and is there miles of walking ? Thanks Dave M
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 13, 2013, 09:49:49 pm
Semper Fi Dave. You definitely need to check it out. I would say no, as far as parking. I know they have large groups of tours show up there all of the time. And from what I remember it has a big open parking lot. No, it's pretty well contained in one huge building. They are putting more and more statues outside surrounding the Memorial but not too far apart. And, if you do get tired of walking, you can always stop by Tun Tavern and have a cold one and take a break.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 13, 2013, 09:57:10 pm
Thanks for all of the great info. Now, what are your thoughts on the different engines in the GVs? I did a lot of negative information on the 300hp Cat engine. How about the Cummins 8.3 300hp, the 6v92ta and any other engines that might come in the GVs. Do any of them come with over 350hp? how about transmissions? are there any that I should avoid?
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 13, 2013, 10:11:04 pm
John, I don't believe my 93, U300 has a thermostatic air valve or a fan pulley hub. Are you sure all years of 6V92's have them? I could be wrong?
Kent,
Yours should be like ours and when looking at the engine, you should see two vertical rows of 7 threaded holes right in the middle of the engine. All the stuff for the rear radiator bolts on here. Ours is empty but could be used for an extra alternator or something as the crankshaft pulley has lots of spare grooves on it.
I like your idea of using the front heater plumbing for extra cooling with front radiators. Sure would be nice to send a couple of 2" tubes to the front and mount a couple of tall aluminum radiators with electric fans and get rid of the whole hydraulic pump/fan system. VW Vanagons did it without any problem and Mexico VW factory did it with earlier model VW vans with a radiator added in a nice neat package in the front. With the grills already open for the vehicle AC and the removable Fiberglas panels on the bottom, ram air would do most of the cooling while underway. With the side or rear radiator, there is no free air from the forward travel of the coach. Would gain about 30hp and estimate a half mpg too.
Pierce
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Dave Cobb on October 13, 2013, 10:23:40 pm
Reese,
You asked about hp, and we all seem to want more. But try to remember that for almost any year Foretravel you might look at, you are likely to see a lower pound to hp than the SOB on the market. Foretravel ordered their engines with more hp than other manufactures. Take that with the slope nose of the GV, the lower height of either a GV or Unicoach, and the lighter weight often than the other brands as well. I know that people are towing enclosed trailers with 4 motorcycles, and 2 couples on trips out west without much issue.
The whole need for more hp, has been driven by the ever heavier coaches being offered. My 98 has less pounds per hp to move than almost any newer coach for sale today.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 13, 2013, 10:48:33 pm
Thanks for all of the great info. Now, what are your thoughts on the different engines in the GVs? I did a lot of negative information on the 300hp Cat engine. How about the Cummins 8.3 300hp, the 6v92ta and any other engines that might come in the GVs. Do any of them come with over 350hp? how about transmissions? are there any that I should avoid?
All the engines are good in the later GVs. The 5.9 Cummins "B" engine is used with great success in pickup trucks, UPS trucks, you name it. Excellent engine for reliability and economy but not enough cubic inches for the heavy, wide and tall GV models. The CATs, 8.3 Cummins and 350hp Detroit 6V-92 are all excellent and with proper maintenance, outlast the owner. The 2 cycle 6V-92TA is my favorite but others will fly the flag of their favorites. All the engines sleep most of the time in light duty RV applications so they should last forever if you take care of them.
CAT parts are the most expensive, Detroit 2 cycle parts the least with Cummins fairly reasonable.
Would not worry about more HP as the stock cooling system is OK most of the year but hard pressed to handle 350hp in hot summer weather on long grades. In other words, you have to gear down and slow down to avoid heating the engine. Some members have employed small nozzles to spray water on the radiator to give an extra margin of safety.
Note: the older U300s had 300hp but only moving the radiator to the side allowed them to bring the power up to 350hp.
Here is a good read on most of our engines: Marine Engines - Comparing Diesel Types: Two Cycle, Four Cycle (http://www.yachtsurvey.com/comparing_diesel_types.htm) Note that some engines will produce almost twice the horsepower in a boat. The cooling from the ocean lets the engine produce more power but stay within operating limits.
The Allison transmissions are excellent. The later models have lockup part way through 2nd gear with 3rd and 4th locked up. The transmission runs much cooler, engine then can run cooler, better mpg and best of all, it's like having an afterburner when it goes into lockup. Everything even, a 6 speed beats a 4 speed as the ratios between gears are closer so you have have a better chance of having the perfect gear available when climbing grades. Some models like our U300 were not available with 6 speeds but I find it has plenty of power for the hills with the 4 speed. And no, 6 speed transmissions don't drop the RPMs at cruising speed. Final drive is the same. Just have more ratios between 1st and high gear. Bottom line is, make sure the transmission can lockup in the model you are interested in.
Pierce
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Caflashbob on October 13, 2013, 11:51:43 pm
We have had both styles, a GV Unihome, and now a Unicoach. The GV fit our entry budget to see how much we might enjoy and use a RV.
Had for 2 years the U225 GV, and we loved the style, the cleaner front end after a day's travel, and the mid door entry. The raised driver and passenger seat were wonderful for traveling views. The wife enjoyed having her "copilot nest" that was not the entry like on a forward door coach. The 36' length was perfect for the places we wedged it into as well.
Down side was the rear radiator, non disc brakes, non air bag suspension, and smaller bays. But those items were not deal killers for our first try. There are many happy owners with more miles on those coaches than I hoped to ever drive.
Our upgrade this year to a Unicoach, got us the side radiator, air bags, disc brakes, taller bays, and much more. We were lucky to find one of the very rare mid door 36' Unicoaches made. We have so enjoyed the flat floor, and the additional space gained with the flat front design.
It has been mentioned, know your budget, have your reserve, then look at every Foretravel you can find, both for sale and not, to know when you find the "right one".
Unfortunately if we mention our mutual preference for a mid door it might stop the original poster from enjoying any later model Foretravel product he will likely find.
Lots of good, first person, experience here. Budget and availability will govern your choice it seems.
Exactly what happened to us. We were not in the market for any Rv and had not been in a coach or used one from 1995 to 2012.
Then my old friend Roger Tischendorf from my days at Foretravel of California called to talk about current events and mentioned that our mutual buddy Brad Nerhous had taken in a nice unicoach on trade and were we by chance interested?
Not really was my first response. Ok..... Tell me more? Hmmmm.
Dangerous. Ok we will look at the coach which was an hour away from us.
I laughed when we saw the coach. A U320 with flat floor,no slides, aqua hot, retarder, m11, dual pane windows, gelcoat...ducted air, heat strips not heat pumps. Rear air not in the bedroom. Side by side dometic refer...
Exactly what I wanted. Old school. But current. Sort of.
Oh and the final thing for me as we were used to and preferred mid entry and the coach had been specially ordered with a mid door.
I laughed. Must have been meant to be. In a perfect world it would have been a 36' for the ease of driving but the non slide 40' is a really nice floor plan and is full- timeable.
Call brad at interwest in Colorado as he has a lot of Foretravel contacts. Most would be later but you never know. Roger is the other guy.
This coach has required a lot of care and feeding but the basic structure was in perfect condition. Only the systems needed maintenance. No deal killers,
But as a former manager for Foretravel the work it needed was exactly what I expected.
Between everyone here and FOT and MOT and Extreme and others any coach should come out ok...
You won't know most of the time until you own one.
I used to have customers want to custom order first time coaches. I always recommended that they use a coach like Foretravel made it. Until you see what is important to you and how you use a coach its hard to know.
Jump....moderation is for monks.
Bob
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: propman on October 14, 2013, 12:35:52 am
Rory,
Welcome to the forum. I am sure by now you have discovered there are great people here. They all helped me so much during my ordeal. We had never even camped or RV'ed before. Since we purchased our Matilda the 94/U225 we took two trips & we loved it. Health & Prosperity provided I hope to always own one FT. After looking at RV's ( all kinds) for about 5 years, this past June I purchased mine from MOT. I have a 94/U225; it was/is the entry level GV. When I finally made up my mind to pull the trigger for us it had to be a Grand Villa but up until the last moment I contemplated about buying a 96,98 or 99 models (270, 295, 300) because they have more powerful engine, diesel generators, 6 speed trany, air bags, retarder, etc. At the end when I was standing in the MOT parking lot with several Foretravel's parked around the 94/U225 I purchased .... how would I say ... it spoke to me "take me home" I don't regret it. Since I purchased it I have done quit a bit of improvements to it, some are want and some had to be done. I still have to do the upholstery and TV's and I may even do a full body & roof paint to it. Now I am not sure when but I hope to upgrade someday, as much as I love ours and I am spending more than most will say it deserves it .... "you will never get your money back" and I only have it since June, I constantly look at the 96-99 models when I see them for sale. At the time when you are ready to purchase yours, I would say do yourself a favor and buy the latest and greatest model that your can effort; I am saying this because it is a Foretravel. Moment you buy one, you are going to realize even more that how great they are and you may regret you did not spend the money you could spend for perhaps one model up. This was/is my situation. I could effort a bit more but I hesitated. I also got a bit inpatient at the end i wanted one and getting one from MOT was too easy for me because they had one and they were only 220mil from me. Right after i purchased it there were 3 great ones come on sale. Thank God nothing is lost because what I have is a Foretravel, I have no doubt I can sell it even if I had to take few dollars loss and I can upgrade.... but for now we love having Matilda and with all i have already done to it, it will be too hard to part with it. I ask my wife, if i can have another one, but she say i can only have one girlfriend at a time :-) Also as folks here have already mentioned make sure you have some money in reserves to be able to handle some unseen expenses after the purchase or anything you would want to do to it; I would say +/- 7K. Enjoy the experience & you will enjoy the ride :-) Good Luck, AL
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: propman on October 14, 2013, 11:50:38 am
If this is in your range take a look at it. Owner is a member here and he knows his stuff. I believe it is one of the good ones out there. Other members will be able to tell you about it too; well known owner & GV. 1995 Foretravel U280 /360, Conyers GA - 110951133 - RVTrader.com (http://www.rvtrader.com/listing/1995-Foretravel-U280--360-110951133)
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 14, 2013, 11:58:23 am
Thanks Al. I have seen this one. I am leaning more towards a 40' because we still have kids that will be traveling with us and I think we will need all of the room we can get. I also like the 93 U280 that is on here. Has some real nice upgrades and appears to be well taken care of.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: bogeygolfer on October 14, 2013, 12:48:10 pm
Rory - FWIW - we have two boys, ages 12 and 15 - and we have a 36' U295. We do short-duration trips (weekends, football games, 1-2 weeks max otherwise). For us, the 36' has been fine.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: propman on October 14, 2013, 01:34:19 pm
You may have seen this one too. I don't know anything about it ( it is fairly close to me) They were asking 45K since June. Now it is 37.9. It is a 40'
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 14, 2013, 05:02:40 pm
I will add, retarder a great feature and 179K miles no big deal. Tire and battery dates would be good to know, Gary a regular here, likely excellent maintenance.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 14, 2013, 05:04:35 pm
Have had 36 and 40, either will suit you well, most of additional room in mine in bathroom and kitchen. That being said, I like the 40 better, but mostly it is the slide and aquahot.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: fkjohns6083 on October 14, 2013, 09:44:41 pm
We have a 91 GV with the 300 horse Cat engine. Would like to know the negative factors with that engine. It is also a side mounted radiator with a hydraulic fan motor driven by the steering hydraulics. I'm having trouble thinking of any problem with the engine or cooling arrangement ---- Am I missing something?? Thanks and have a great day ---- Fritz
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 14, 2013, 09:59:17 pm
Hi Fritz. First, let me start by saying I don't know much about any of the engines other than what I read on here or online in other forums. I searched that engine because I found a FT with that engine and wanted to know more about it. There were a couple of posts in a forum (don't recall which one) that said the 300hp Cat was not a very good engine. I'm glad to hear that you are happy with yours and have not had any issues. There are always 2 sides to every story. I'm happy for you that your side is good! have a great day.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 14, 2013, 10:30:44 pm
We have a 91 GV with the 300 horse Cat engine. Would like to know the negative factors with that engine. It is also a side mounted radiator with a hydraulic fan motor driven by the steering hydraulics. I'm having trouble thinking of any problem with the engine or cooling arrangement ---- Am I missing something?? Thanks and have a great day ---- Fritz
The engine should last forever in your coach. If you put them side by side, the CAT V8 is a pretty small engine, only about two thirds the size of a 6V-92TA. It has a parent bore (no sleeves). Some shops don't like them as much as they are more difficult to overhaul as the engine has to be removed from the vehicle and you need a really experienced shop to have sleeves installed and last a long time. The side radiator should provide plenty of cooling for 300 hp in most any weather and or grade.
Pierce
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Dave Head on October 15, 2013, 07:32:27 am
The ONLY issue I've ever heard of with the 3208 is that since the exh springs are light an exh brake doesn't work as well as on later engines. They are a great engine that will run forever with decent maintenance.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on October 15, 2013, 08:06:23 am
I had a 3208 Cat in a 85 ORED that was problem free, not the fastest but reliable as h.... Other than swearing at the number of belts and how hard it was to change and tension them I had zero problems. Drove it all over the country on all kinds of passes and hills. If it had not been totaled in an accident I would probably still have it. Gary B
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: fkjohns6083 on October 15, 2013, 11:02:09 am
Yep, I guess belts are always a problem and as you know there are 7 belts to keep track of. Good news is that they are doubled up in most cases and that adds to reliability. I use a belt dressing which also keeps them running longer. Carrying spares is also good insurance. Thanks and have a great day ---- Fritz
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 15, 2013, 11:21:52 am
Al, I did see that one in Arlington. It looks to be in pretty good shape as well.
Thanks
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 15, 2013, 11:53:38 am
I noticed some owners mentioned that they don't like aqua hot. What are some advantages/disadvantages of aqua hot?
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Dave Cobb on October 15, 2013, 12:08:38 pm
For me it is the yearly service costs and the future repair costs to pay for. Those with the units love them when they work, and they do so much so well. But as I understand they are complex, with all they need to do.
We have a small leak in our water heater. I can get a new one for around $600 for the 3 way replacement model. I can change it out without too much trouble. If it were the Aqua Hot, I would need to switch off the unit, and not have coach heat, or engine pre-heat, or hot water. As I have read, a leaking Aqua Hot rebuilt unit is $7,000 plus labor.
Yes I have two noisy gas furnaces to listen to, as well as a noisy gas water heater if we are not plugged into an electric source for heat.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: J. D. Stevens on October 15, 2013, 01:19:37 pm
Ditto what Dave Cobb said.
We also have two noisy propane furnaces. Two can be a good number if one of the two should happen to fail. It has happened to us.
My plan was to buy a FT with Aqua-Hot. We do some traveling in cold weather. We got one without AH. Propane furnaces have worked well even in temperatures around 0F. One failure was due to dauber nests on the flame grid. Have had no problems since I installed insect screens.
Wife prefers two noisy furnaces after hearing a couple of Aqua-Hot repair stories. Folks with Aqua-Hot mostly say they would prefer to deal with AH issues rather than go back to propane furnaces. Establish your budget and make your choices.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Caflashbob on October 15, 2013, 01:30:24 pm
Much less temperature swings with the aqua hot. Versus too hot then too cold. Plus the three zone with the bath having its own control there and the heated tank bay.
Plus it does have continious hot water output. Reduced flow to do it as I understand.
Quieter for sure.
For backup we have heat strips not heat pumps which works at low temps the pumps won't put out heat at.
Bob
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: MR B2 on October 15, 2013, 02:10:36 pm
We have a 91 GV with the 300 horse Cat engine. Would like to know the negative factors with that engine. It is also a side mounted radiator with a hydraulic fan motor driven by the steering hydraulics. I'm having trouble thinking of any problem with the engine or cooling arrangement ---- Am I missing something?? Thanks and have a great day ---- Fritz
I have a 89 GV the same as yours, 3208T 300HP Cat, Negative Factors, I heard all sorts, They spin out big ends at 25,000 miles, Need rebuilding at 80,000 miles, Throw away engine, Etc Etc, So I got onto the Caterpillar Engine Forums to check it out, A lot of it was just personal opinions, Pure Bunk, But these motors are doing an excellent job in fishing trawlers, You dont put crap motors in fishing trawlers, Your life depends on it, So I think we have a very good motor in the 300 HP Cat, I also have the 4 speed Allison,
After 1200 miles, I have found my Motor to be very good in pushing the weight of my GV, It never struggles, 2nd gear coming down hills, holds it there, Nothing gets hot, Or excited,
Clicks into top gear at around 130 Kays, and then it gets up and Tangoes, Quite surprising the grunt its got in top gear,
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 15, 2013, 02:42:18 pm
Maintenance costs higher.
Quieter than propane furnace - a lot!! Runs on diesel, no worries running out of propane during extended stats Two or three zones of heat in coach Endless hot water vs 6/10 gal. With typical attwood propane HWH.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 15, 2013, 02:44:34 pm
Had propane in first two FT, aqua hot for last five years
Never go back.catastrophic repairs rare and generally result of misuse
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on October 15, 2013, 05:23:50 pm
If you live back east, you are probably familiar with diesel home heating. Works well but diesel burners need maintenance much more frequently than propane or natural gas heaters doing exactly the same job. Too bad the AquaHot was not propane fired as it would be a lot more reliable. We added an unvented propane heater just to make sure in case of any failures to our OEM heaters.
Propane is not nearly as efficient BTU wise but at $1.20/gallon (our association) vs around $4.00/gallon, propane wins big time for cost.
Toyo make a great direct vent diesel heater that we use at home. Check the OM-22 as a possible heater for your coach. Will probably add it to ours next year if budget allows. Small footprint, no flue, no clearance problems, no fumes and Toyota/Honda reliability. Exhaust goes out the same small tube the burner air comes in. Heats our whole house with 0.07 gallons/hour on low, 0.12 gallons on medium and 0.17 on high. Not cheap at about $1000 but has had zero problems in over ten years we have owned it. About the same noise level on high but very quiet on low setting. Uses 46 watts after start up. Toyotomi U.S.A. - Direct Vent Oil Heating System - OM-22 Oil Miser (http://www.toyotomiusa.com/products/laserventedheaters/OM-22.php) This is the only direct vent diesel heater sold in the U.S.
Pierce
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: amos.harrison on October 15, 2013, 08:09:47 pm
Regular maintenance for an A-H is only $25 for filter and nozzle. You do need to run it once a month let the generator or incur increases maintenance costs. If you winterize correctly, internal(expensive) leaks are very rare. If you try to get by by just blowing out the water system, the results are catastrophic.
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: Dan Noble on October 16, 2013, 12:29:36 am
Hi Rory,
You don't mention your budget or intended use (at least in this post) weekend trips? full time? see the country? . Could have impact on advice here.
I have an 89 U280 with Cat 3208 Allison 4 spd. 40' & propane 6.3 kw generator-all the undesirables ;) Do most of the basic maintaince myself (with help from here) and haven't found the rear radiator to be an issue-but have noticed the tight fit adding coolant that was previously mentioned. Have not had any issues with motor or drive train in the 7000 miles I've put on it in 15 months. Purrs like a kitten (no pun intended). Have been around the 3208 in agriculture applications and it was a good engine. 3rd owner. Spent about $6000 so far on repairs/upgrades like power converter, coach batteries, tires, bulkhead repair, curtains. Need to do upholstry, TV's, maybe Refrig, one air on the weak side....next year or two.
You mention you're looking at 40' because of the kids. I have 4 kids (one Wife) and the extra 4' doesn't help much as it's extra closet and storage cabinet in mine, 36' would definite fit a lot more places. Mid entry definitely a plus with the kids. 102" width would be more of a plus for the family in my opinion than the extra 4'.
Always would be nice to have 150hp more, 6 spd, retarder/or jake but not deal breakers. Had a slide on previous 5th wheel and while the space was nice, there was more upkeep, leaks, etc. so we specifically looked for the non slide GV.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: rpettway on October 16, 2013, 02:24:09 am
Dan,
Initially, I started out looking at FT priced around 60-70K. As I stated before, I wasn't crazy about the GV body style, so I didn't pay much attention to them. After being on this forum and doing a lot of research and seeing the GVs on different posts they kind of grew on me. Specifically, the 1988 GV that Rob had for sale on this forum. He sold it for 15K. I began to think that I would probably be better off getting something cheaper as this would be our first MH. Then, we could see how much we will use it what we use it for, what we like and don't like and then eventually if we wanted, we could upgrade to a newer, more expensive coach. We are in our mid 40s so we are still working. We will use it mostly for weekend camping trips in and around Texas. We live in Austin. However, I am from Louisiana and Mississippi and Renee is from Wisconsin, so probably at least one trip to each location per year. Then, we will probably take at least a week long trip somewhere during the summers. Having said all of that, I would like to spend less than 30K if possible. I may spend more if I find the perfect FT. I will tow a 2012 Jeep Wrangler that probably weighs @4500lbs. I will also occasionally tow our boat 19' Champion Fish & Ski. I do plan on purchasing (eventually) a stacker trailer so I can tow both at the same time. I know that will put me at @10,000lbs total. I know the GV are not rated to tow that. I think that the majority of the time though, would just be the Jeep in tow. There are 3 FT that I have found that I think are all good coaches. I will list them and you can all feel free to give me your input on them. The first is a 95 U295 listed here in the classifieds by Kerry. The second is a 93 GV U280 SE listed here by John. And the third is a 94 GV U300 on RVT. The first two have the 8.3 300hp cummins and the latter has the dda silver 6v92ta ddec 350hp. They all seem to be very well maintained and I have received great feedback on all of them. The good news is they are all in Texas. The bad news is, I'm in Afghanistan. I will not be home until the 3rd week of November, so the only thing that I have to go by is pictures and input from everyone here on the forum. It is quite possible that all 3 of these could be sold before I get home. Oh, BTW, these are all 40' coaches. Sorry about writing a book, but you did ask. ;D
Title: Re: To Grand Villa or not to Grand Villa
Post by: MR B2 on October 16, 2013, 06:31:31 am
Hi Rory,
Im in Australia and I bought my 36 foot 89 ORED Grand Villa from Texas USA, Sight Unseen, Bought on Google,
I was not dissapointed with it, It needed air bags and Shockers, and a couple of Uni's and a new right hand windscreen, Not bad for 108,000 miles, and 24 years old, $15,000-00 I paid for the Coach,
Most are highly maintained, So your expenses would be Minimal, $10,000-00 At most, to have the palace restored inside,