I have a slow ( getting worse) leak from my grey water valve , also slight leak grow black tank . I am now facing the task of stripping out the wet bay to replace both valves !
Can anybody give advice on replacement valves 3"??, and the best easiest way to replace them ?
Thanks
Why replace when you can buy the rebuild parts? Dump, flush and reflush the tanks, and then tip the coach to the right and disassemble and replace the parts. I bought all the parts, and have it on my to do list soon as well.
Jimmy.... This is a PITA job if there ever was one. I did mine about 1.5 years ago. I actually did them twice. The most important tip I can give you is to get plumber's silicone grease. You will find it in the plumbing aisle. It will be in a small plastic container and have the consistency of honey. Do not use any other grease on the sewer valves. I found this out the hard way. Here is a post from August 2, 2012.
"Here is an addendum to my March 31, 2012, 09:41:21 PM post. I had to redo the valve job because I did not follow Brett's advice to the letter and used some of what I thought was a "silicone" lubricant I had laying around on the valves (Super Lube which I know now is not silicone based).
He said to get silicone grease from Home Depot.... there is a difference. I found the grease in the plumbing section of an Ace Hardware here in Asheville. It has the consistency of honey. It was not with the other greases. I pulled the valves, which were working very hard, and found a thick greasy residue on everything. Removed that as best I could and used the newly purchased silicone grease for plumbing. The label says 80% silicone, but I am hoping that is good enough.
Found a better way of pulling the valves and rubber seals. If I remove all the bolts on the sewer valves, the whole pipe comes out (i.e., the 3" pipe connecting the two valves). This makes it a lot easier to remove the rubber seals, clean them and reassemble them. This also allows one to insert the lowest bolt on both valves without too much trouble before attaching the pipe. I put the bolts in from the back on these two since it is easier to attach the nut from the front."
Good luck! Here are some pics I took while working on mine.
I see now I need more learning I do. Thanks for the mention of the correct grease! Maybe I will get lucky and do the job just once.
thanks for the pictures Mr. Hatfield, your layout is similar to mine. My layout has switches for gray and black automatic dump valves that have been disconnected by the PO. Where would those automatic valves be located? I did not see any. My gray dump valve cable is located in the top panel which makes it very difficult to remove the panel to work in that area. That is one reason why I re-doing the area, I want to make it easier to work in there.
I would guess the PO removed the electric dump valves and replaced them with the cable operation type you see now.
Yes, that is kinda what I thought also. Automatic valves would be more user friendly, but I guess the failure risk is high. Manual valves are dependable.
George, we MUST meet so you can show me how to refurbish the waste valves on my coach. (Oh! My shoulder hurts!)
Looking at George's photos , I can't make out the manufacture
For smooth operation be sure to lubricant the push/pull rod on the valve.
I am almost sure the valves are made by Valterra...
RV Products & Accessories (http://www.valterra.com/RV/rv-main.htm)
George
Likely more than you want to tackle, but I redid mine with the object to make waste plumbing access easy. I can remove about 7 screws (no caulking) and get access to the waste valves, the water fill, etc. it was a lot of work to get it to that stage, but you might get some ideas from it...
Putting the Utility compartment back together...Done! (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=18328.msg128399#msg128399)
Don
gosh Don, I can only hope my refurb turns out as nice as yours. You set the bar pretty high.
You do not have to buy the expensive cable pull valves. You can buy the 3 inch valterra valves and then just install the new valve into the mechanism for the cable pull. When you take the old valves apart it will be evident how to install the new valves. The plastic handle on the new valves just unscrews to remove
My 2002 has the gray water dump valve on the starboard side (passenger) and the it's pull cable runs across the top of the black tank to the gray tank. I guess I am stuck with a long pull cable for the gray tank.
I took a look at the construction of walls and such and decided it was best to get someone who was a professional to install the new valves. The valves are not expensive and it makes good sense to do both while everything is disassembled. Total cost was just under $300. Considering my time and lack of knowledge and the high degree of error, it seemed like a bargain to me. The technician came to my location as well!
It seems like the design folks could have made it a tad easier to service this area. It is kind of like accessing the dash blower motors! Very easy when coaches are built. Miserable when needing service.
Good luck.
David
After much searching and calls to valterra and Foretravel I have decided to order the valves and cables ( no longer available as a unit ), hopefully changing both out will solve the problem. Scared of what I am going to find once I start stripping out
Hippie cannot tilt coach when dumping as one valve is on street side and one is on curb side.
What kind of lube to use on cyl inside valve?
reading George's post it seems Brett recommends 'silicone grease" available at Home Depot.
John H
Recently, bought a 1oz tube at the Home Depot. Costs $2.00. In the plumbing section.
Good Luck, Dave A
Maybe a bad idea - has anyone put the controls in the bathroom floor?
I considered it in my 88 bored. It might work take some tinkering.
I want to be near the dump hose when I operate those valves. Being inside the coach would not be my choice for a location for the handles.
I agree with J.D.
Ok were full time hooked up hard-pipe to the sweer inlet with a vent.
Guess im bad cause every few weeks the Wife says "john the showers backed up.. cant you..."
I usually dump on thursday..
Hi John,
Now that's funny! ;D :D
Raymond
Sometimes.. on the receiving end -NOT
LOL
Water leaking out of Valtera dump valve. How do you change out? Looks serious, should I consider replumb of compartment?
There are rebuild kits for the valves. I have a set to go into my two, when I can do a really good clean up. It is suggested that after cleaning with several flushes, that you can tilt the coach to the right to help. Looks to be not a difficult job when looking at the rebuild parts and the exposed valves.
When I empty tanks, I try to get maximum tilt toward the driver side before dumping. On our coach, the tanks drain much more quickly and effectively when the coach is tilted. We have a "third valve" on our waste system. By using a sequence of valve operations, I back flush the black tank about three times with water from the grey tank. The system has appeared to be very effective in flushing the tanks and valves. You can do a similar back flush drill without the third valve by raising the drain hose above water levels in lieu of closing the third valve.
On our 2002 the Gray valve is on the passenger side and can be accessed by going through a small access door. Behind the panel on the driver's side the Black valve sits. As of late the valve actuates but the light never goes off when the valve is closed and sounds like the motor keeps running - although somewhat slower. I believe the valve is closed as the water stops running out of the drain hose.
I know I will have to rebuild the Black valve system soon. Since our drain pipes are a larger diameter than the standard Vantera diameters available, what rebuild kit(s) would I use. I also like the electric valve but certainly see the benefit of replacing the valve with a manual type.
I have looked at the Vantera website and only see the 3" valves and rebuild parts. Can you folks point me in the right direction to investigate repair/replacement options? I would love to also put on a 3rd valve but due to the configuration of the waste pipe through the access panel I do not believe it is possible. (See attached pic).
Thanks again in advance for your input / indulgence.
The waste pipe diameter (Unless something changed from the year of our coach) is 3 inches just like the Valterra fittings. Foretravel used a thetford connector on the three inch pipes. You can cut that fitting off and use an ABS glue to put a new more standard type Valterra fitting on in its place. You can then choose all kinds of adapters and accessories which fit the Valterra standard. From the picture, you already have an adapter to Valterra type fitting connecting your hose.
Don
Carol & Scott,If you have a grey drain on one side of coach and the black on other, I do not see how you can put the 3rd valve in (I have one on too) as you need the 2 close together in same bay. I like having it that way but in reality it is no big issue. I would concentrate your thoughts and energy on other issues that will make a difference to your life on wheels, rather than fret over the small s--t ( pun intended)
John H
Thanks Don and John H. -
Scott, I think that you can put on a third valve ahead of where the termination thetford ring is. It would take a little work to get the old plumbing out of the 90 degree elbow, but can be done and then would need to get a valterra 3 inch valve with the hub and spigot 3 inch fittings and then I would go with a valterra termination ring.
Like Don said, just cut off the Thetford fitting and use ABS glue to attach a standard Valterra fitting. Looks like there would be room to put in a 3rd (manual valve, with handle facing out (horizontal), and still have room for the Valterra fitting and an elbow on your hose. Valterra makes a manual valve with handle attached that is ready to glue onto the 3" pipe, and has the Valterra hose attachment fitting on the other end (that's what I used). Total length (along the pipe) is 4 1/4". The end of the handle is 7" from the centerline of the pipe. so if you have
7" from the center of your pipe to the inside of your door, it will work.
If 4 1/4" from the joint in your pipe (after you cut off the end) gives you enough room for the hose elbow, then what you need is the Valterra T-50A.
Dave, I must be thinking wrong (or something) as Scott said he has one valve on Pass' side and one on Drivers side, so, how can he put in a 3rd one to do what he wants to have it do, which is "back flush" the black tank bottom as we and others do???
John H
@John I'll jump in on this one.
Even though Scott's gray water valve is on the passenger side the outlet transverses the coach to tee into the outlet of the black tank then flow out the common 3" pvc to the sewer dump. As long as the third valve is after the tee the gray water could be used to refill the black tank after the black tank is dumped.
Scott correct me if I'm wrong about the plumbing for your gray water tank.
see ya
ken
Ken, thanks for info. I was wondering about that set up as have not looked at that years set up.
Then it would work as staterd, but I looked at that picture and made my comment.
John h
Dave thanks for the Pic and stuff.
Ken you are correct. The gray transverses from the passenger to the driver's side after the black water Y.
Red Tractor - will definitely use the Valterra hose fitting. The Thetford is a hassle.
The waste pipe connections are really packed tightly together. I will have to remove the panel again and look closer. Since Dave K. has been so kind as to provide the product and dimensions I guess I will have to get this done sooner than later. Guess I will have to cut all of that 3" ABS out and remake. ARGH.
Thanks again all.
I am planning on trying to add a third valve at the bay end of my system, but my 2002 U270 is set up in a different direction (straight out to the elbow). Assuming I have enough room, how much of the 4-1/4 space will be taken by the 3" pipe inserted into it? 1"...2"...? I plan to cut off the Thetford and then glue on the smaller Valterra, but this is gonna be tight and I want to understand how much room I will need to have from the cut off end of the pipe to allow the bay door to close. Also, there seems to be a T50, a T50A, and a T50C. What are the differences? Does my plan to glue it onto the pipe require the T50 or the T50A? Thanks...
Brad we have got to stop meeting this way. Our 2002s are some times a strange breed. Why would your black and gray water pipes run differently than mine? (rhetorical question) :D
Well, dang it! Mine comes straight out for some reason. There is a coupling that I can see back in there...but it might not be a coupling...it might be an expanded end (hope not). It looks like I can cut that pipe with a dremel tool and leave whatever length will fit inside the new Valterra valve's backside, then place it so the valve pull is about the 2:00 position. From the very front of the connector/expanded end, there seems to be around 6 inches to the door when closed. It is likely the only way I am gonna be able to be sure is to have one in my hand and see if there will be any interference. My Black water (the one with the cable) has never sealed well, so I am thinking this will solve the problem...without having to take the entire system apart to get to things. Amazon has the Valterra T50....but no T50A. I suspect the difference is on the mounting side of the valve.
I don't think that we will know until the ABS gets cut and is put back together - hopefully.
Next question: Is the Vanterra ID and OD dimensions universal - will they fit on 3" ABS parts/fittings that can be purchased at the Depot or Lowes? As I recall on my set up the fittings are very close together and I might need some internal couplings. I would hate to get this thing apart and be stuck due to the lack of a part.
Guess I will have to buy a Dremmel.
While the 3rd valve is nice for back flushing capabilities, it is also a good safeguard against a failed elec. or cable operated valve.
When I cut my thetford fitting off I bought and twisted together the valve and the 90 degree and the adapterthe got a measurement to determine correct lenght to cut behind the thetford. I have never posted pics on the forum, but will try tomorrow to take a pic and post it.
Scott,
The make adapters for converting to the smaller size. Makes it quite easy.
Just checked my setup, and the 3" pipe can slip about 1 1/2" into the back end (slip hub) of the valve assembly.
I didn't buy the T50A, but assembled my valve out of 3 separate Valterra parts I found at an RV store:
The back end - Valterra T1005 3" slip hub with valve flange, the Valterra T1003VP Bladex valve, and the Valterra T1009 3" bayonet (that the hose attaches to.)
Check out FLANGED VALVE FITTINGS (http://www.valterra.com/rv/flanged_valve_fittings.htm) for the slip hub and bayonet, and BLADEX™ WASTE VALVES WITH PLASTI (http://www.valterra.com/rv/bladex-valves.htm) for the valve. If you mouse over the thumbnails on those pages, you'll get a good idea of the relationship of the pieces. Any good RV dealer will either have those pieces in stock or can get them. The page with the flanges also has lots of other 3" elbows, joints, etc.
Probably everything you'll need for tight quarters. This is all compatible with the standard 3" ABS plumbing fixtures at a hardware store.
RV Products & Accessories (http://www.valterra.com/RV/rv-main.htm) for the full line.
Greetings
94 u280 2 valves in utility compartment.
I am reading all the posts - still dont understand why for 3rd valve? Can someone point me in the right direction?
The 3rd valve, as the outer most, or last in the system can do a couple of things.
It can still close the system if either the black or grey break, stick, or leak.
It can be closed and allow you to then open the black, and then open the grey, allowing the grey water to back flow into the black tank to back flush. Then close the grey, open the 3rd, and drain the black again. You can repeat till you have no more grey to back flush the black.
With your black and grey closed, you can close the 3rd for a doubly secure way to not leak while on the road. Note, on my 93 U225, I had tank flushers, on the 98 U295 there are no tank flush hook ups.
I bought the removable 3rd valve, as a solution that can be installed if I can not get the black or grey to work someday if they fail "open". I could just clip on the spare 3rd, and head out. Then I can fix the broken valve parts after dumping at the warehouse/shop with tools, lights and supplies. A broken valve sort of ends the use of that tank for the rest of a trip without a 3rd valve solution. In a perfect RV world, none of us will ever need a 3rd valve!
Dave thanks! Understood.. i have been back flushing with just the 2.
Can i just put the 3rd valve on the existing connection?
Thanks Dave. Have a great day.
Scott
Perfect! Thank you and Kudos to you, Dave.
Yes you can, as I intend to do. I first looked at a permanent 3rd valve, but the 3" line is sloping downward and I just did not have the 1/2" of room for it to fit above the bay floor inboard. Not wanting to rebuild my pipe system changed my plan to a removable 3rd valve solution further outboard.
So Dave are these availble? Or did i miss that in the discussion?
I just ordered the 3 parts to make my valve from Amazon! I'll just carefully make sure it will all fit in, and at the right angle, to allow the door to be closed and the handle fully extended. I got the T1003VPM with a metal handle. I plan to let the leakage drain, shove a rag into the hole, cut the 3" pipe, install the combination, pull out the rag, close the valve and never have to get messy again. I will make sure to mount it with the idea that I will be able to replace the seals on this setup and never worry about the Black and Grey valves leaking!
Brad,
When you get ready to work on the valves, lean coach to driver's side to drain as much as possible. Then lean to passenger's side and begin disassembly. Doing this, you should not get more than a few drops in your work area.
Brett
Brad - I will be waiting for the positive progress report. :D
Thanks for the tip, Brett. Parts are due Tuesday night (always 6 PM or later UPS deliveries here).
I got lucky in that Amazon had one the T1003VPMs in stock as a returned, open item...for $7.98...about half off. I snatched it up, so this is a less-than $20 cure.
Yep, all parts are available from RV dealers (or can be ordered,) or most or all can be ordered from Amazon as Brad did.
Also might mention that the 3rd valve is great at back flushing debris from the bottom of the gray tank too. AFTER you back flush the black tank empty both gray and black tanks. Use your black tank flusher to fill the black tank with fresh water. Now close the 3rd valve open the black valve wait for the air to clear out and then open the gray water valve. I was amazed at how much crap came out of the gray tank the first time I did this.
BTW: when you plan your 3rd valve try to leave room for a short section of clear pipe so you can actually see what's coming out. It's a little ugly but nothing like visual confirmation. :)
see ya
ken
That's a GREAT idea! Thanks. I imagine there may be some soap scum or small kitchen debris in there after 11 years. I do love that black tank rinse feature on my 2002!
I use a Polychute hose that has sight glasses at each end of the hose. There are also clear extensions, angle couplings, and back flush units that can be added to Valterra fittings during the flushing process to show the effluent. I find that the effluent from the black tank is as clear as the grey water by the third back flush using the third valve system.
We don't have the fancy shmancy tank flushing systems that you folk with those "expensive new" coaches have. ;D
Removed top panel to get a look at the valves , does anyone know how the valves are fixed to the 3" pipework . I can see on the new valves that one collar is male and the other female ,are the existing valves glued to the pipework ??
That would involve replacing all the pipework ??
Ok found my glasses and can see that the collars bolt to the valve .
Managed to get new valves and cables installed yesterday , changing the cables proved to be the toughest part as the lower panel needs to be in place , forcing you to work over the top of it . Fingers crossed and thanks to everyone for advice
Changed out my valtera grey valve,had to cut off bottom bolt with cut off saw. Greased with home depot plumbers grease, installed fernco coupling just in case it has to come apart again, very tight area, RV plus had all the adapters & valve. Thanks John
I finally cut off my white connection end, shortened the black pipe and glued on a new Valterra end connection. I turned the Valterra slightly so that my new twist on 3rd valve does not get in the way of the shore power cord. So if I dump and have a problem with either the black or grey valve I can simply install my 3rd valve and work on things when I get back to the warehouse. Also I can now back flush if I want to, and can now feed the dump hose thru the bottom flap opening, with the bay door closed. Still left to do is install the rebuild kits for both valves.
Got my permanent third valve installed. I oriented the valve pull horizontal and to the rear, so it won't be in the way opened or closed. While in the area, I am cleaning up the bay of all the sloppy and dirty tcaulking and adding a momentary switch to turn on the water pump so my 270 can have another 320 accessory.
Congrats Brad - could you post a pic of the finished job?
Here is the finished product, both the new valve and the added water pump switch. Since it is so easy to add to the water pump relay circuit, I added both a new switch and a new indicator light while I was at it. I used a Dremel cutter to get the old Thetford off and it was an easy job to get the new Valterra base on.
Nice job - hope mine comes out as well.