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Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: fkjohns6083 on November 06, 2013, 09:36:50 pm

Title: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: fkjohns6083 on November 06, 2013, 09:36:50 pm
The insulation on the underside of the bed on our 91GV has deteriorated greatly.  I'm wondering if there is something that I could spray on it to hold it together and make replacing it a lot less messy.  I'm thinking that a solid foam would be a good replacement.  Has anyone done this job before or have some insight on how to get it done??  Thank you and have a great day  ----  Fritz
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: DaveLarose on November 07, 2013, 01:32:07 am
I am also just about to do mine. I am thinking Roxul and tough mylar, like Kozzee wrap (super tough), be really easy, and cheap to do...
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: bbeane on November 07, 2013, 05:47:45 am
I need to do mine to real bad, finding something water proof and reasonably heat/fire resistant is proving to be a challenge. The orginal stuff FT uses is quite pricey.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on November 07, 2013, 10:01:08 am
The Foreforum "Search" function is your friend.  Run a search for "engine compartment insulation" and you will find a wealth of information.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: John Duld on November 07, 2013, 10:05:07 am
Whisper mat by AAP.
Made for generator quiet boxes.
Call and ask for a sample.
804-633-9454.
JD
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: fkjohns6083 on November 07, 2013, 11:00:37 am
Thanks for the info, looks like a messy job anyway you do it.  Well, I guess it is like swallowing a frog, just do it if you have to!!!!  Have a great day  ----  Fritz
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: MAZ on November 07, 2013, 11:08:18 am
That is my next project I am about to do. I have an email from Rick Harper at Power Tech saying he could do better on the price of there Soundmat Aluminum Soundmat Sheets 1/2" by Power Tech | Power Technology Southeast Inc (http://powertech.myshopify.com/products/aluminum-soundmat-sheets-1-2) but it is only half inch thick. So my current plan is to cover it all in sheetmetal. Still looking for a local vendor where I can aquire some. I have a local friend in my neighborhood who used to own his own body shop in Flint MI. He said he would help me do it and he is a genius at that sort of thing. He also sells for Camping World now which has been helpful.

Mark
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: fkjohns6083 on November 07, 2013, 12:24:17 pm
I plan to do this job myself and the first thing I'm going to try is to remove the old deteriorated stuff with a shop vac.  I dont want to use water or air, so thought I would try the shop vac approach.  I haven't decided what to put back in its place, that comes later.  Thanks for the input on possible replacement material.  Have a great day  ----  Fritz
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Keith and Joyce on November 07, 2013, 01:37:44 pm
MAZ,

Someone did this on here recently.  I believe he used aluminum soffit material.

Keith
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Carol Savournin on November 07, 2013, 03:08:44 pm
Dave Katsuki did one of the very best jobs, ever ... top notch.  Check out the photos and step by step he posted.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: DaveLarose on November 07, 2013, 05:05:06 pm
Here is a well=proven solution for quite a bit cheaper than a few of the other suggestions;

EZ Cool Automotive Insulation heat barrier and noise reduction for cars, trucks, (http://www.lobucrod.com)

I saw that at least one other user has posted his project using this product. I am adding the Roxul for added sound-deadening.


Best...
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Dave Head on November 08, 2013, 01:49:20 pm
What does the factory use for new coaches?
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: danieljeff545 on November 20, 2013, 09:36:20 am
I'll be checking around locally for idea today. If I don't find anything I will be ordering the EZ cool.  I may not get the whole engine bay done before our trip to FL but the DW is sensitive to the fumes so I'll get the bed hatch seals soon and post pics.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: propman on November 20, 2013, 10:17:14 am
High-Temperature Rigid Fiberglass Insulation:

McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/3509/=pfx56o)   

(Medium density 9350K3 or heavy 9351K3 )

I am thinking to order 3 rolls of heavy 9351K3 :
High-Temperature Rigid Fiberglass Insulation, Foil Faced, High Density, 2" Thick, 24" x 48"
& One role of tape :
Aluminum Foil (FSK) Tape—3" × 10 yd.   76145A19   Roll   $9.3

Here is an article what other owners did with pictures:

Engine Insulation (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/engine_insulation.html) 
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: MAZ on November 20, 2013, 10:44:35 am
Looks like it may be a good fix. I wonder if they would send a sample?

Mark
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: propman on November 22, 2013, 03:21:25 pm
Just got of a call with mcmaster rep. They don't send sample.
&
I decided to use this product EZ Cool Automotive Insulation heat barrier and noise reduction for cars, trucks, (http://www.lobucrod.com/index.html)
This guy is 30 mil a way from me. I just ordered two rolls. I will do two layers.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: DaveLarose on November 22, 2013, 05:30:13 pm
Hi, two layers is overkill, but cheap enough that it won't hurt you, and might take another couple of decibels off...
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: danieljeff545 on December 06, 2013, 09:21:36 am
Fritz
I made a thread on "Engine Bay insulation" sorry I didn't know how to copy it and send it to you or link it to your post...all and all the job went well. Any questions let me know.
Jeff
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: propman on December 06, 2013, 01:58:52 pm
This is Jeff's post: Engine bay insulation (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=19890.msg142446#msg142446)
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: danieljeff545 on December 06, 2013, 03:03:07 pm
Thanks Al.....I couldn't get my phone to cooperate and copy the link...
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Wattalife54 on December 06, 2013, 05:28:37 pm
We stripped all of the insulation out of the engine compartment last weekend and took the coach out for a ride. There was no noticeable difference in engine noise at 65 mph, at the drivers position. I plan to laminate a layer of EZ Cool insulation to sheets of High-Temperature Rigid Fiberglass Insulation McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#9351K1) and McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#9351K2)    I will use the 1" sheets on the walls and 1-1/2" sheets under the bed.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: danieljeff545 on December 06, 2013, 06:41:23 pm
Bob
The EZ Cool was what I was going to use but I got a similar product with that was a about the same price.  I only put the foam board on the bed, if need be after this next trip I'll put another layer of the WIREZ heat/sound shield up on the walls
Jeff
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Wattalife54 on December 27, 2013, 09:39:47 am
Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 27, 2013, 10:37:37 am
  ^.^d ^.^d  BEAUTIFUL job!  (But I think you should have used a few more fasteners, just to make sure it doesn't fall off... :)) )
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Wattalife54 on December 27, 2013, 11:14:46 am
Yeah      I know it seems like overkill, but the original insulation was glued in and I decided to skip that step. ;)
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: fkjohns6083 on December 27, 2013, 11:19:20 am
Looks great  ----  Giving me a little more incentive to get going on it!  ----  Thanks again  ----  Fritz
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Raymond Jordan on December 27, 2013, 11:35:56 am
Hi Bob & Faith,
  That sure looks good. Great work.
Raymond
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: ohsonew on December 27, 2013, 05:29:43 pm
Very nice looking. Quite professional appearance.

Larry
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Wattalife54 on December 27, 2013, 06:55:24 pm
Thanks for the complements!!!!!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Duane Budd on December 27, 2013, 08:35:26 pm
First class!!
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: MAZ on December 30, 2013, 09:04:08 pm
Bob yours looks great. I just finished mine today. Here are a few pictures. I used the soundcoat product from power tech in Leesburg. I got a price break on it. Two sheets did the job. I removed all the glue from the side walls with 3m adhesive remover. It came right off. The insulation stuck to them very well. Not as many fender washers needed. Under the bed I sprayed some permatex headliner glue to make sure it would stay in place. I put two layers under the bed and one on the walls. All the screws and washers are stainless. Aluminum tape on all the seams after cleaning the surface. I installed nylon spacers on the floating side of the electrical panels. Also put a new lens on the compartment light. I put a few screws in the lens cover to keep it from falling off. Next is the generator compartment.

Mark
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Don & Tys on December 30, 2013, 11:04:56 pm
Well done Mark! ^.^d Now the inevitable questions... :D Do you have a part number on the Soundcoat product and what thickness is it? Did you get the spacers from McMAster-Carr and how long are they?
Thanks!
Don
Bob yours looks great. I just finished mine today. Here are a few pictures. I used the soundcoat product from power tech in Leesburg. I got a price break on it. Two sheets did the job. I removed all the glue from the side walls with 3m adhesive remover. It came right off. The insulation stuck to them very well. Not as many fender washers needed. Under the bed I sprayed some permatex headliner glue to make sure it would stay in place. I put two layers under the bed and one on the walls. All the screws and washers are stainless. Aluminum tape on all the seams after cleaning the surface. I installed nylon spacers on the floating side of the electrical panels. Also put a new lens on the compartment light. I put a few screws in the lens cover to keep it from falling off. Next is the generator compartment.

Mark
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Wattalife54 on December 31, 2013, 06:26:00 am
Mark,
That's a real nice installation. ^.^d
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: fouroureye on December 31, 2013, 08:26:35 am
Nice Msrk..
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: 96u270 on December 31, 2013, 08:50:13 am
Looks ''Factory" Very nice job..
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: John Haygarth on December 31, 2013, 11:44:00 am
 Don, I just looked up the panels I think Mark used
Aluminum Soundmat Sheets 1/2" by Power Tech | Power Technology Southeast Inc (http://powertech.myshopify.com/products/aluminum-soundmat-sheets-1-2)

I am having to do the same job a bit later on in the 240 so will be also "looking at products" myself.
If you find any reasonable alternatives during your looking please let me know.
John h
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: MAZ on December 31, 2013, 12:00:59 pm
Thanks for the comments. Don all the hardware was bought at Lowes. Wall screws are one inch #8 and under the bed are inch and a half #8. Spacers are inch and a half with two and half inch screws. Sound Coat is half inch thick. I bought it from Rick Harper at Power Tech. I think the total cost was around $400.00 including all the hardware. Here is the link Aluminum Soundmat Sheets 1/2" by Power Tech | Power Technology Southeast Inc (http://powertech.myshopify.com/products/aluminum-soundmat-sheets-1-2) . I think it was the fastest shipped item I ever received. Ordered it one morning and it arrived the next day. They are only two and a half hours away. I stopped in there to buy some at their plant when I dropped off Dani's coach in Leesburg but their computers where down. I looked at the product then and I liked what it was. Also Paul Yazbeck said that is what he uses on coach insulation. He was a Foretravel factory tech who still has his own RV repair business in Leesburg FL. I am very pleased with how it turned out. I forgot I wanted to mention that the walls are covered with metal so I used a hammer and nail to punch a small hole through before putting the screws in. You can see in this picture the metal wall nice and clean after I removed the adhesive. Rick at Power Tech told me to make sure the surface is clean so it would stick well. When I told him I was putting screws and fender washers on he was not concerned with the adhesion. It stuck very well and tucked up under the lip very nicely. Hope this helps and I didnt ramble too much.

Mark
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: ohsonew on December 31, 2013, 05:31:56 pm
Mark, very nice looking job. How long do you estimate it took for complete job?

Larry
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: MAZ on December 31, 2013, 07:26:59 pm
That is a good question Larry....... ::) Maybe around 8-10 hours. I worked on it off and on over a few weeks so it is hard to remember exactly.

Mark
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Don & Tys on December 31, 2013, 07:33:50 pm
Thanks John,
I will let you know if I come up with some other suitable material.
Don
Don, I just looked up the panels I think Mark used
Aluminum Soundmat Sheets 1/2" by Power Tech | Power Technology Southeast Inc (http://powertech.myshopify.com/products/aluminum-soundmat-sheets-1-2)

I am having to do the same job a bit later on in the 240 so will be also "looking at products" myself.
If you find any reasonable alternatives during your looking please let me know.
John h
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Dave Katsuki on December 31, 2013, 11:02:24 pm
Don,

While you're in Nac, check out the material that MoT uses for engine compartment insulation.  That's what I used - just glued it over the existing material (after thorough cleaning and vacuuming) and then added fender washers and screws.  Taped the corners with aluminum tape.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: John Haygarth on December 31, 2013, 11:41:35 pm
 Dave, not being anywhere near MOT do you remember what that was you used??
John H
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Don & Tys on January 01, 2014, 05:14:53 pm

Thanks for the suggestion Dave, I will check with MOT when they get back from vacation... Probably tomorrow.
Don
Don,

While you're in Nac, check out the material that MoT uses for engine compartment insulation.  That's what I used - just glued it over the existing material (after thorough cleaning and vacuuming) and then added fender washers and screws.  Taped the corners with aluminum tape.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Dave Katsuki on January 03, 2014, 12:48:49 am
Don't know who the manufacturer is, but it's a quilted material, about 1/2" thick, with a glass fiber reinforced aluminum facing.  Very flexible. 

Here's what I did on the engine compartment:
Reinsulating the engine compartment (split from What did you do to your coach) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=17362.msg116095#msg116095)

Same thing done on the generator compartment.  (but I didn't have to pull the Cummins to do the engine compartment :)) ) 
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: MAZ on January 03, 2014, 11:26:27 am
Here are a few pictures of what I used if anyone is interested.

The Soundcoat Company, world leader in sound insulation and noise control (http://www.soundcoat.com/index.htm)

Mark
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: red tractor on January 03, 2014, 09:22:40 pm
Where did you get the insulation Mark?
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: MAZ on January 03, 2014, 11:13:37 pm
Ron ,
  I bought the insulation from Powertech in Leesburg. Rick Harper gave me a nice discount.
Mark
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: red tractor on January 04, 2014, 10:30:30 pm
Mark
Thanks for the information, now that you jogged my memory, I think that I remember you saying that before. It is heck to get older as it gets harder to remember things. Ron
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Dave Katsuki on January 05, 2014, 12:26:38 am
Here are a few pictures of what I used if anyone is interested.

The Soundcoat Company, world leader in sound insulation and noise control (http://www.soundcoat.com/index.htm)

Mark

That looks like the original insulation type that Foretravel put in our gen and engine compartments.  Dual foam with a heavy vinyl layer in between.  Probably the best noise insulation type you can get (available from various mfrs.)  Ours was still intact (except for the surface film), so I covered it over with the felted material from MoT.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: MAZ on January 05, 2014, 10:41:16 am
Very similar to the original Dave. Mine was falling apart(pic). The original has a lead barrier. Very heavy. They used a much thicker material also.

Mark
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Caflashbob on January 05, 2014, 08:47:57 pm
Very similar to the original Dave. Mine was falling apart(pic). The original has a lead barrier. Very heavy. They used a much thicker material also.

Mark

The original was barium/lead foam
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: propman on February 16, 2014, 03:59:04 pm
After 3 weekends finally, clean engine and new engine bay insulation :-)
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: ohsonew on February 16, 2014, 04:26:22 pm
Looks nice Al. Almost makes it to where you don't want to drive it anywhere----NOT

Larry
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Jimmy Freytag on February 16, 2014, 06:32:49 pm
Hey Mark & Dave, how did you go about washing done the engine compartment.  Hand sprayer or high pressure sprayer, Simple green or something else.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Caflashbob on February 16, 2014, 08:31:39 pm
Hey Mark & Dave, how did you go about washing done the engine compartment.  Hand sprayer or high pressure sprayer, Simple green or something else.

While I am not mark or Dave I do use original gunk in the spray can to clean the engine compartment.  A diesel powered hot water pressure sprayer is the best.  No chemicals

Bob
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: J. D. Stevens on February 16, 2014, 08:51:59 pm
I had some success with Simple Green and hot water. Let the Simple Green sit on the surfaces for a while, then rinse with hot water. I fired up the water heater on the coach and ran a hose from the faucet in the water service bay. I sprayed carefully from the bedroom.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: bbeane on February 17, 2014, 06:01:47 am
I,m not a fan of water and chemicals on old electrical connections, tends to let the grimlins out. On older mechanical engines should not be a problem just try to keep it out of the alternator and starter. Unless it's really oily dirty as in a leak, I just leave it be. I take care of a 300 vehicle fleet, we used to pressure wash things a good bit, we quit that practice 5 or 6 years ago and a lot of my electrical grimlins (check engine lights) went away.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: John S on February 17, 2014, 07:11:56 am
I have had my engine steam cleaned and each time we had to fix something.  It will just be a bit dirty as my experience follows with Bruce. 
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Dave Cobb on February 17, 2014, 08:29:02 am
I had some success with Simple Green and hot water. Let the Simple Green sit on the surfaces for a while, then rinse with hot water. I fired up the water heater on the coach and ran a hose from the faucet in the water service bay. I sprayed carefully from the bedroom.

Some might remember there is a Simple Green Extreme product.  It is the better product for cleaning anything aluminum as it is the correct PH.  It does not change the color of the metal or streak like the cheaper Simple Green product.

I like the hot water from the bath idea, will do that next time from the service bay faucet.

And as other said, each time you high pressure wash you awaken the gremlins in the wires and connectors.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: Keith and Joyce on February 17, 2014, 12:17:36 pm
I second Bruce's opinion on pressure washing newer engines.  Lot's of disparate vehicle in my fleets over the years.  Pressure washed everything (Like the Penny Lane Fireman I like a "clean Machine").  Stopped as more and more electrical connectors came into use as computerization crept in.  Cummings recommend steam cleaning not high pressure spray.  If you must do it avoid or seal alternator and starter.  Make sure connectors are clean and dry afterwards.

Keith
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: propman on February 17, 2014, 02:16:01 pm
No water from any kind of hose in the engine comportment for me. Hand wash/clean: Spray bottle filed with hot water and dawn dish soap, spray conservatively in small areas at a time and use a rag dipped in  to same water and just wipe a way the dirt, and don't spray around electrical stuff at all. Around the electrical stuff wd40 spray bottle and another rag. With this method 30-40 min after each trip, it just stays clean anyway.  I do the same to my truck and DW's car couple of times a year.
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: dwest on February 20, 2014, 09:27:56 am
We have used the EZ Cool product before when restoring older cars for customers. It has always been inside floor board or trunk area. Not sure what elements might do in engine compartment? Extra fasteners is a great idea.  What did you use for the fastener?

Foil lining material would not hold up well to pressure washing. Soft brush and water hose only. Product works well. I never thought about double thickness. That is a great idea. Research the high temp glue for sure.

David
Title: Re: Engine comparment insulation
Post by: propman on February 20, 2014, 06:36:18 pm
We have used the EZ Cool product before when restoring older cars for customers. It has always been inside floor board or trunk area. Not sure what elements might do in engine compartment? Extra fasteners is a great idea.  What did you use for the fastener?

Foil lining material would not hold up well to pressure washing. Soft brush and water hose only. Product works well. I never thought about double thickness. That is a great idea. Research the high temp glue for sure.

David

I got 3/4x1 washers and 3/4x8 screws. I have also used a 3M spray glue that i had researched for under the hood high temp applications. I did not glue the sides I only glued the top (under the bed) and over the radiator (i did not post a picture of over the radiator) Glue is so strong I had to work fast and did not have to put any washer/screw over the radiator area. I went with double layer of EZ cool. I was sold on it after i saw the burn demonstration video. He is 30 mil a way from me and quite inexpensive. i also figured if it did not work (it did) it was  inexpensive to replace or add over it. I may also add sheet metal over it, someone here did that looks good and be easy to wipe down dirt.