Title: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: John Haygarth on November 17, 2013, 12:11:48 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on November 17, 2013, 12:11:48 pm
Yes, the grill above the front tire is the propane furnace grill and note also (harder to see) the second grill above the rear wheel on same photo. That is the second propane furnace. I have a 1996 36 u295 and I certainly don't have an issue with the propane furnace(s). I like the fact that there are 2 (as some others may only have one). They will keep you warm. People that have aqua hot (which I don't and never have) say that they love it. I frankly haven't and am happy with having not one but two furnaces. There are benefits (as I understand) to aqua hot including being more quiet to heat, using diesel, and pretty much unlimited hot water (mine also has propane hot water heater). One drawback to aqua hot is more expensive to maintain (from what I have heard about repair bills on this forum). Dave is correct and aqua hot is not usually on 295 (unless special ordered).
The new Aquahot unit is $8k plus install. Good units but a lot of $$$s
John H
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: GKCigar on November 17, 2013, 03:53:49 pm
Post by: GKCigar on November 17, 2013, 03:53:49 pm
Charles and John,
Thank you for the your responses. The main reason for the Aquahot on my end was the DW had expressed interest for the unlimited Hot water. I don't expect to be anywhere to long where we would need more heat than two furnaces can provide.
Greg
Thank you for the your responses. The main reason for the Aquahot on my end was the DW had expressed interest for the unlimited Hot water. I don't expect to be anywhere to long where we would need more heat than two furnaces can provide.
Greg
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: J. D. Stevens on November 17, 2013, 08:12:04 pm
Post by: J. D. Stevens on November 17, 2013, 08:12:04 pm
Charles and John,
Thank you for the your responses. The main reason for the Aquahot on my end was the DW had expressed interest for the unlimited Hot water. I don't expect to be anywhere to long where we would need more heat than two furnaces can provide.
We've spent a few days at a time in temperatures below 10F. The two propane furnaces were the primary sources of heat. They did fine. We burned about 6 gallons of propane per day. One could reduce fuel usage by using electric heaters.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Patricia on November 17, 2013, 08:42:47 pm
Post by: Patricia on November 17, 2013, 08:42:47 pm
Ditto with JD's experience... we also have 2 propane furnaces on our 36' and a 10-gallon two-way (propane/electric) Atwood water heater. We full-timed for a year (now we half-time)... and we've never had a problem running low on hot water. I should mention we also have a 2100XC Splendide washer/dryer (installed in 2010), and still have not had a problem with sufficient hot water.
Like JD, occasionally I forget to turn on the hot water heater electric switch (under the side of the bed, next to the circuit breaker box) when we first arrive at a campground. If I'm in a hurry for hot water, I turn on the propane switch instead, since it heats VERY quickly. Then I change it to electric.
We also did fine with cold temperatures... down to -7 (seriously!) with a little snow in Las Cruces the middle of January 2011 when we moved out of our sticks-n-bricks and started to full time:
Like JD, occasionally I forget to turn on the hot water heater electric switch (under the side of the bed, next to the circuit breaker box) when we first arrive at a campground. If I'm in a hurry for hot water, I turn on the propane switch instead, since it heats VERY quickly. Then I change it to electric.
We also did fine with cold temperatures... down to -7 (seriously!) with a little snow in Las Cruces the middle of January 2011 when we moved out of our sticks-n-bricks and started to full time:
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Caflashbob on November 17, 2013, 09:45:23 pm
Post by: Caflashbob on November 17, 2013, 09:45:23 pm
We have a 10 gallon (I think) 3-way Atwood water heater on our U295. We've never had a shortage of hot water for our purposes (as long as I remember to turn on the appropriate heat source when we are stopped ;D ). We do not take long showers or run hot water for long periods of time.
We've spent a few days at a time in temperatures below 10F. The two propane furnaces were the primary sources of heat. They did fine. We burned about 6 gallons of propane per day. One could reduce fuel usage by using electric heaters.
Anyone have a comparison of the amount of diesel fuel the aqua hot uses. I know it temp dependent but wondered if anyone had calculated it? Sorry for the hijack
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Rudy on November 17, 2013, 09:48:38 pm
Post by: Rudy on November 17, 2013, 09:48:38 pm
Bob,
When the burner is firing, it burns 1/2 gallon per hour. But since it does not run all the time, usage of 2 to 3 gallons per day is normal until the temp becomes really frigid and then 3 to 4 gallons per day is predicted.
When the burner is firing, it burns 1/2 gallon per hour. But since it does not run all the time, usage of 2 to 3 gallons per day is normal until the temp becomes really frigid and then 3 to 4 gallons per day is predicted.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Caflashbob on November 17, 2013, 09:54:44 pm
Post by: Caflashbob on November 17, 2013, 09:54:44 pm
Bob,
When the burner is firing, it burns 1/2 gallon per hour. But since it does not run all the time, usage of 2 to 3 gallons per day is normal until the temp becomes really frigid and then 3 to 4 gallons per day is predicted.
I knew you knew.
Should there be a small dark spot below the exhaust pipe on the ground after several days of use?
Working backwards from some recent camping using the gen and the aqua hot that seems in the range.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Dave Cobb on November 17, 2013, 10:09:02 pm
Post by: Dave Cobb on November 17, 2013, 10:09:02 pm
Charles and John,
Thank you for the your responses. The main reason for the Aquahot on my end was the DW had expressed interest for the unlimited Hot water. I don't expect to be anywhere to long where we would need more heat than two furnaces can provide.
Greg
If you find your dream coach and it does not have Aqua Hot, you can still keep the dear wife happy. Install an "on demand propane" replacement water heater. There are a couple of different models that fit into the same space as the factory unit. We did not when we replaced ours last month, due to a couple of reasons. First is we like the motoraid feature, of having hot water made off the engine while traveling when we stop or arrive. Second is we always have power when we camp, and it is included in most camping fees with the space.
An on demand working off propane did not seem to make as much sense to us. We have so far had enough hot water, with both the propane and electric turned on.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on November 18, 2013, 01:57:41 am
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on November 18, 2013, 01:57:41 am
My 95 u320 has a very rare Primus system.
Its a hot water system that heats the coach and all water needs. It also heats the front windshield/dash area and engine. Keeps the coach to 1 degree front to back and top to bottom.
Runs off of 2 propane fired boilers or electric or Motoraid.
Never runs out of hot water and silent heat.
Its a hot water system that heats the coach and all water needs. It also heats the front windshield/dash area and engine. Keeps the coach to 1 degree front to back and top to bottom.
Runs off of 2 propane fired boilers or electric or Motoraid.
Never runs out of hot water and silent heat.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: amos.harrison on November 18, 2013, 06:29:46 am
Post by: amos.harrison on November 18, 2013, 06:29:46 am
Bob,
A dark spot on the ground below the A-H exhaust means incomplete combustion. Is it time for your annual fuel filter and nozzle change?
A dark spot on the ground below the A-H exhaust means incomplete combustion. Is it time for your annual fuel filter and nozzle change?
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Bill Chaplin on November 18, 2013, 06:55:18 am
Post by: Bill Chaplin on November 18, 2013, 06:55:18 am
My 95 u320 has a very rare Primus system.
Sound like the ultimate system.
Will it fit in my U300???
Sound like the ultimate system.
Will it fit in my U300???
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: GKCigar on November 18, 2013, 01:18:25 pm
Post by: GKCigar on November 18, 2013, 01:18:25 pm
JD, Thanks for the input on the 10 gallon water heater. Sounds like this opens up my options more as long as I can convince the DW that 10 gallons is plenty of water. I know it would be for me.
Patricia, Now that looks chilly! I love New Mexico. Thank you also for that info.
Dave and Dolly Cobb, I like the idea of a "on demand propane" replacement water heater. If the 10 gallon water heater is enough that sounds like it would work. Any idea on cost of that system?
Lon and Cheryl, Primus system sounds pretty awesome.
Kerry, Thank you for the update on the availability of your coach.
Patricia, Now that looks chilly! I love New Mexico. Thank you also for that info.
Dave and Dolly Cobb, I like the idea of a "on demand propane" replacement water heater. If the 10 gallon water heater is enough that sounds like it would work. Any idea on cost of that system?
Lon and Cheryl, Primus system sounds pretty awesome.
Kerry, Thank you for the update on the availability of your coach.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Dave Cobb on November 18, 2013, 10:59:31 pm
Post by: Dave Cobb on November 18, 2013, 10:59:31 pm
Dave and Dolly Cobb, I like the idea of a "on demand propane" replacement water heater. If the 10 gallon water heater is enough that sounds like it would work. Any idea on cost of that system?
I paid about $600 last month for my new 3 way water heater. I think that on demand was almost $1000. Could not see the any advantage. Dolly was happy in the old coach with 6 gallons, and very happy in the new coach with 10 gallons.
That said, we did upgrade to on demand gas at the house. Dolly stands or soaks as long as she wants and has all the hot water she can ever use when home.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: GKCigar on November 19, 2013, 01:33:40 am
Post by: GKCigar on November 19, 2013, 01:33:40 am
Dave,
Thanks for info. Price doesn't sound to bad really. If the 10 gallon doesn't work then, well you know, "Happy Wife, Happy Life" ;D
Thanks for info. Price doesn't sound to bad really. If the 10 gallon doesn't work then, well you know, "Happy Wife, Happy Life" ;D
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on November 19, 2013, 01:47:03 am
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on November 19, 2013, 01:47:03 am
The three way water heater has a lot of advantages. It heats water going down the road from the engine with it's heat exchanger and with the electric element, it needs no propane if you are plugged in. I wonder if you could put a small 12V pump in the line back to the engine and use it as a block heater in cold weather?
If you dry camp a lot, the advantage swings the other way with much less propane used with the tankless.
Tankless propane/NG works great at home where gas is much cheaper than electricity. The little point of use 120V under sink heaters do work well.
Pierce
If you dry camp a lot, the advantage swings the other way with much less propane used with the tankless.
Tankless propane/NG works great at home where gas is much cheaper than electricity. The little point of use 120V under sink heaters do work well.
Pierce
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: GKCigar on November 19, 2013, 02:06:42 am
Post by: GKCigar on November 19, 2013, 02:06:42 am
Pierce,
Good to know about heating water on the go. I would have never known that. As you can probably tell this is all NEW to me. I am so glad that I was able to find this forum, where everyone is so willing to share there collective knowledge. Thanks again.
Greg
Good to know about heating water on the go. I would have never known that. As you can probably tell this is all NEW to me. I am so glad that I was able to find this forum, where everyone is so willing to share there collective knowledge. Thanks again.
Greg
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Tim Fiedler on November 19, 2013, 08:19:21 am
Post by: Tim Fiedler on November 19, 2013, 08:19:21 am
Pierce
The Aqua hot does just as you say, the unit circulates hot water to the engine to pre-heat. so we have an electric pre-heat with switch on bed, and another on the aquahot. If you are plugged in, the aquahot has an electric element, that can heat the engine, or give you small amounts of hot water (say to wash hands or dishes) and then the Diesel side kicks in for a hot shower or to heat the coach
Elegant, quiet and efficient, but of course not without it's higher maintenance requirements.
HAd the usual propane stuff in my Gran Villa and U-270, worked fine. Have the Aqua-hot now, spent some $$ on it, but NEVER going back.....
Different strokes for different folks. Once my wife was in a slide coach and understood aqua-hot means endless hot water when hooked up, the decision was made..... :-)
The Aqua hot does just as you say, the unit circulates hot water to the engine to pre-heat. so we have an electric pre-heat with switch on bed, and another on the aquahot. If you are plugged in, the aquahot has an electric element, that can heat the engine, or give you small amounts of hot water (say to wash hands or dishes) and then the Diesel side kicks in for a hot shower or to heat the coach
Elegant, quiet and efficient, but of course not without it's higher maintenance requirements.
HAd the usual propane stuff in my Gran Villa and U-270, worked fine. Have the Aqua-hot now, spent some $$ on it, but NEVER going back.....
Different strokes for different folks. Once my wife was in a slide coach and understood aqua-hot means endless hot water when hooked up, the decision was made..... :-)
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on November 19, 2013, 11:27:00 am
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on November 19, 2013, 11:27:00 am
Greg,
If the Foretravel you purchase does not have the electric option, it can be added. Ours had one installed (don't know if OEM or added) and works great. Not nearly as fast as the gas but if plugged in, it will keep the tank hot without using any propane. Pak Hot Rod RV Water Heater Conversion Kit Fits 10 Gallon Brand New | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAK-HOT-ROD-RV-Water-Heater-Conversion-Kit-Fits-10-Gallon-Brand-New-/190972883898?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c76def3ba) Two different brands, just one shown here.
Pierce
If the Foretravel you purchase does not have the electric option, it can be added. Ours had one installed (don't know if OEM or added) and works great. Not nearly as fast as the gas but if plugged in, it will keep the tank hot without using any propane. Pak Hot Rod RV Water Heater Conversion Kit Fits 10 Gallon Brand New | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAK-HOT-ROD-RV-Water-Heater-Conversion-Kit-Fits-10-Gallon-Brand-New-/190972883898?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c76def3ba) Two different brands, just one shown here.
Pierce
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Tom Lang on November 19, 2013, 11:51:43 am
Post by: Tom Lang on November 19, 2013, 11:51:43 am
When I am camped with jull hookups, I often turn on both gas an electric to the 10 gallon water heater for extra BTUs. Last week our incoming water was barely above freezing, but we never ran out of hot water for long showers. We also supplement campground water pressure with the water pump.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: bbeane on November 19, 2013, 09:09:49 pm
Post by: bbeane on November 19, 2013, 09:09:49 pm
We also have 3 way 10 gallon water heater, never had an issue with the lack of hot water. When running on propane we turn it on as needed before showers and dish washing, no need to heat water all day if you don't need it.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on November 19, 2013, 09:10:12 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on November 19, 2013, 09:10:12 pm
Aquahot is great. If we are plugged in we use the 110v to heat water. It works for heating the coach down to about 40°. We will turn on the diesel as well. It doesn't kick in until you start using lots of water (nice shower) or it gets cold enough that the electric isn't sufficient to keep up with heating demand
On diesel we have always had enough hot water and coach heat at any temp (teens easy). While driving the engine heats the AH. The AH can pre heat the engine. Wonderful.
We really like it. I sometime wonder why they don't do in-floor heat. Then you wouldn't need fans and heat exchangers. (Quiet) You could get by with a single pump and solenoid controlled zone valves. This is how our house and my shop are heated. The house has 11 separate zones each with its own thermostat. 65° in the master BR. 73° in the master Bath for example. Perfect. And the floors are warm. Same thing in the newer all electric coaches but they are using electric heat grids embedded in the floor usually under tile. It would cost about 3/4 - 1" for a new sub floor with aluminum heat distributers for 1/2" PEX tubing. I don't know what the existing sub floor structure is. Probably part of the unibody structure so retrofit would be tough. If we both weren't 6 ft + losing an inch wouldn't be a big deal.
All that being said, we are really glad we have an AH system and as many have said, we won't be without one going forward.
Roger
On diesel we have always had enough hot water and coach heat at any temp (teens easy). While driving the engine heats the AH. The AH can pre heat the engine. Wonderful.
We really like it. I sometime wonder why they don't do in-floor heat. Then you wouldn't need fans and heat exchangers. (Quiet) You could get by with a single pump and solenoid controlled zone valves. This is how our house and my shop are heated. The house has 11 separate zones each with its own thermostat. 65° in the master BR. 73° in the master Bath for example. Perfect. And the floors are warm. Same thing in the newer all electric coaches but they are using electric heat grids embedded in the floor usually under tile. It would cost about 3/4 - 1" for a new sub floor with aluminum heat distributers for 1/2" PEX tubing. I don't know what the existing sub floor structure is. Probably part of the unibody structure so retrofit would be tough. If we both weren't 6 ft + losing an inch wouldn't be a big deal.
All that being said, we are really glad we have an AH system and as many have said, we won't be without one going forward.
Roger
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Caflashbob on November 19, 2013, 09:18:23 pm
Post by: Caflashbob on November 19, 2013, 09:18:23 pm
Will both my 97 aquahot systems work like you post?
Edit:
I see from the service manual that it can.
Bob
Edit:
I see from the service manual that it can.
Bob
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on November 19, 2013, 10:51:13 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on November 19, 2013, 10:51:13 pm
Bob,
I have been using 110v with the diesel as a high demand option. It seems like it works but both are probably triggered at the same low temp point. I don't know if you can set a different low temp start point for 110v or diesel. Seems like if the system is up to temp and both sources are on it goes for a lot longer before diesel come on than when it is just diesel.
I imagine every coach is different. Try it out in yours, see how it works for you. I figure if I am plugged in I am goimg to use it.
If I need to run the generator to boost battery voltage, I always turn on the 110v option for the AquaHot. Charging batteries doesn't use much of the generator capacity so you might as well heat water (and run AC if it is hot).
A bunch of complex systems. Lots to learn.
Roger
I have been using 110v with the diesel as a high demand option. It seems like it works but both are probably triggered at the same low temp point. I don't know if you can set a different low temp start point for 110v or diesel. Seems like if the system is up to temp and both sources are on it goes for a lot longer before diesel come on than when it is just diesel.
I imagine every coach is different. Try it out in yours, see how it works for you. I figure if I am plugged in I am goimg to use it.
If I need to run the generator to boost battery voltage, I always turn on the 110v option for the AquaHot. Charging batteries doesn't use much of the generator capacity so you might as well heat water (and run AC if it is hot).
A bunch of complex systems. Lots to learn.
Roger
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Caflashbob on November 19, 2013, 11:47:07 pm
Post by: Caflashbob on November 19, 2013, 11:47:07 pm
Bob,
I have been using 110v with the diesel as a high demand option. It seems like it works but both are probably triggered at the same low temp point. I don't know if you can set a different low temp start point for 110v or diesel. Seems like if the system is up to temp and both sources are on it goes for a lot longer before diesel come on than when it is just diesel.
I imagine every coach is different. Try it out in yours, see how it works for you. I figure if I am plugged in I am goimg to use it.
If I need to run the generator to boost battery voltage, I always turn on the 110v option for the AquaHot. Charging batteries doesn't use much of the generator capacity so you might as well heat water (and run AC if it is hot).
A bunch of complex systems. Lots to learn.
Roger
Here is the only reference in the shop manual I down loaded a while ago on page 87
Please note that the 120 Volt-AC Electric Heating Element is the Aqua-Hot's secondary heat source for heating both the interior and/or the domestic hot water during low heating de- mand situations (such as when moderate ambient temperatures exist and/or when there is a low demand for domestic hot wa- ter).
If the 120 Volt-AC Electric Heating Element is not providing enough heat, turn the Diesel-Burner on, in conjunction with the 120 Volt-AC Electric Heating Element.
I will see if the manual mentions different temp sensors for the system but I bet there is one only.
Edit:
Looking at the available shop manuals that may or may not be the correct ones for our coaches it seems the diesel low cut on thermostat is a 175 degree unit.
The electric is 185-190. Both high cutoffs I think are the same at 200 degrees.
So they seem to let the temp drop more before the heating element comes on in diesel probably as it energy input is so much higher.
So the tank is always between 185 and 200 on electric and 175 and 200 on diesel.
Both systems seem separate except for a stirring pump for the diesel side that circulates the hot antifreeze from one side to the other in the tank. Out and back in the other side.
Do not see such a thing for the electric.
So unless my quick study is incorrect the fastest heating would be to turn on both switches.
Both would heat until 200. After that if the electric was off the system would let the tank temp drop to 175 before turning on the tank re circulation pump and burner.
At 185-190 the electric would turn itself back on. Rudy would of course know better.
So it seems to heat to 200 then shut off then when the electric hits 185-190 it cuts back on and if the temp drops below 175 the diesel comes on.
Maybe if the tank temp never gets to 175 it never comes back on?
So both heat to get to 200 but the electric only keeps it going unless it gets to 175 again.
Seems like a well designed system to me. As nighttime temps drop it will add the higher input automatically or as needed.
Glad you mentioned how you use yours. I learned something today. Good day.
Separate high limit safety switch cutoff on the diesel side at 230. One at 200 a second one at 230.
Bob
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on November 20, 2013, 04:57:23 am
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on November 20, 2013, 04:57:23 am
My 95 u320 has a very rare Primus system.
Sound like the ultimate system.
Will it fit in my U300???
It does not take up that much room. Two boilers (about 12" x12" foot print each), a 12v circulating pump. Problem is the full length wall baseboard heat exchangers that runs full length on both sides of the coach. There is also heat exchangers in the dash, entrance step,and in the cargo bays. You also need the control center. It is NOT as easy to operate as a Aqua-hot system, but, it works GREAT. It draws very little 12v electric power, and the pump will run down to 9v.
Bluebird used this system. I get VERY VALUABLE info from the Wonderlodge/BlueBird Forum.
I have only read about one other Foretravel that had this installed. It was a 95 U320 that the owner of Justin Boots ordered. Foretravel wanted a system that would heat the hot tub that was installed in his coach.
The Primus systems are no longer made. Parts are available, from Dupree. Some Primus owners have converted to a Wabasco diesel system. They can use the Primus heat exchangers and then substitute the Primus propane boilers for the Wabasco diesel boiler.
Good luck with your project.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: John S on November 20, 2013, 08:05:18 am
Post by: John S on November 20, 2013, 08:05:18 am
The main benefit I see from the AH is when you travel in cold weather. You can just use engine heat to heat the coach. It us quieter too when you are camping. Both will keep you warm and both have enough water thru put to keep everyone happy. Now that I went to AH, I would never not have it.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: jor on November 20, 2013, 09:29:56 am
Post by: jor on November 20, 2013, 09:29:56 am
Quote
as long as I can convince the DW that 10 gallons is plenty of water
One issue that hasn't been addressed is the current draw of the two systems which becomes important if you like to dry camp. I asked Rudy about this awhile back and he provided me with the following numbers (Thanks, Rudy):
Fans - 2 amps each (in our 320 we had 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom, 2 basement, 3 living room)
Pumps - 2 amps each (there are 3)
Burner - 6 amps
Controls - 50 milli amps (switches, thermostats)
Electric Element - 13 amps
So can be 24 amps when all up and running together. Will be less as the interior thermostats and burner control thermostat are satisfied and cycle the components they control off.
The furnaces on our 95 draw about 5.7 amps each. It would be really interesting to have a side to side comparison of an AH vs. LP furnace current comparison. If both rigs had Trimetrics, wouldn't be too hard. Anyhow, I'm thinking for dry camping the LP setup would be better.
jor
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Paul Smith on November 20, 2013, 10:14:13 am
Post by: Paul Smith on November 20, 2013, 10:14:13 am
At an aside, for nighttime comfort, we find having the door to the bath closed and AH on 68F in the bedroom the AH never comes on. Body heat heats the room. This is good at least down to 50F outside.
Then having had the AH on the evening before, the existing hot water heats the bathroon nicely with the door to the salon closed.
Making stovetop espresso and capuccino with propane gives a good start to heating the salon.
best, paul
Then having had the AH on the evening before, the existing hot water heats the bathroon nicely with the door to the salon closed.
Making stovetop espresso and capuccino with propane gives a good start to heating the salon.
best, paul
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Caflashbob on November 20, 2013, 10:52:27 am
Post by: Caflashbob on November 20, 2013, 10:52:27 am
I have only read about one other Foretravel that had this installed. It was a 95 U320 that the owner of Justin Boots ordered. Foretravel wanted a system that would heat the hot tub that was installed in his coach.
There was at least one other primus coach. The original prototype unicoach with the series 60 Detroit motor in it.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: joeszeidel on November 20, 2013, 11:33:48 am
Post by: joeszeidel on November 20, 2013, 11:33:48 am
I also have a 95 u320 with primus and it is great even heat quiet and very efficient
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on November 20, 2013, 06:42:34 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on November 20, 2013, 06:42:34 pm
Jor, if you are dry camping you would not have the 110v heater on. At a low temp of 40 degrees overnight, we never have the BR or Bath on, set the LR to 65° (68° during the day), basement is set to just under 40°. With the heat from the AH in the basement, this is likely to never come on. So 3 fans in the LR and one pump run for 5 minutes or so maybe 2 or 3 times an hour. The diesel burner might come on once or twice over night. You need to look at what zones are on and for how long to get amp hours. Same thing with your LP furnaces and water heater.
The colder it gets the more parts will run and they will run longer.
It all boils down to how many amp-hours to stay comfortable + LP or diesel.
I've been looking at speed controllers for the AH fans. Lower speed means lower amp draw and lower sound levels. The fans would likely run longer but perhaps less often. Something I want to try. PWM speed controllers are cheap.
However we do it, stay warm and comfortable.
Roger
The colder it gets the more parts will run and they will run longer.
It all boils down to how many amp-hours to stay comfortable + LP or diesel.
I've been looking at speed controllers for the AH fans. Lower speed means lower amp draw and lower sound levels. The fans would likely run longer but perhaps less often. Something I want to try. PWM speed controllers are cheap.
However we do it, stay warm and comfortable.
Roger
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: John Haygarth on November 20, 2013, 07:40:41 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on November 20, 2013, 07:40:41 pm
The Country Coach my friend has that we did the re & re of Aquahots in, also has a secondary hot water tank powered by 120v, that is as well as the one in AH. This was another 10gallon one so they have quite an amount of hot water if needed. It (wiring and solenoid valve problem) caused us a lot of consternation as we were not aware of it at time. We did not know either were the heck it was hidden so finished up pulling lots of cabinets apart to trace plumbing. Finally found it so bypassed the wiring to control board till he could pick up another one on his way back south. I learnt a lot about the AH even though we do not have it.
John H
John H
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Caflashbob on November 21, 2013, 12:12:51 am
Post by: Caflashbob on November 21, 2013, 12:12:51 am
Jor, if you are dry camping you would not have the 110v heater on. At a low temp of 40 degrees overnight, we never have the BR or Bath on, set the LR to 65° (68° during the day), basement is set to just under 40°. With the heat from the AH in the basement, this is likely to never come on. So 3 fans in the LR and one pump run for 5 minutes or so maybe 2 or 3 times an hour.
Exact thinking from great minds it seems. The 91 Marquis I sold had hot water heating with four zones and fan speed controls for each zone. Yes 91's. Way advanced coaches.
Be easy to install I bet?
Bob
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on November 21, 2013, 03:28:38 am
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on November 21, 2013, 03:28:38 am
There was at least one other primus coach. The original prototype unicoach with the series 60 Detroit motor in it.
The original owner of my coach told me that the 1st 1995 U320 made was for Mr. Fore. That must be the prototype your speaking of. The coach I have was one of the first and used in the 1995 U320 brochure that introduced the then new Uni-bus design (would live to see that brochure).
The Justin coach sounds like a VERY interesting custom build. Do you remember anything about that coach?
Sure would be interesting to know where these models are now.
Looks like only a handful were equipped with the Primus, all probably at the beginning of the 1995 U320 production. After that they must have decided the Aquahot was a simpler install and the way to go in the future.
Thanks for your EXCELLENT RECALL! You sure can fill in the missing pieces.
Title: Re: Heating options - propane, AquaHot, Primus
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on November 21, 2013, 04:34:16 am
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on November 21, 2013, 04:34:16 am
I just checked the manual for the Primus system, here are a few specs.
DC power usage- standby= .04 watts
2.2 amps during ignition (.05 seconds )
2.5 to 3 watts while running
propane use- 1.08 lbs of propane per hour
2 boilers = 21,500 btu/h each total=43,000btu/h (95% efficiency)
At -20 below will heat a 300 hp Cummins in less than 1 hour to start temp.
There is a generator heat exchanger that transfers generator heat to the coach heating system. A generator pre heat function is also used in the Primus system.
DC power usage- standby= .04 watts
2.2 amps during ignition (.05 seconds )
2.5 to 3 watts while running
propane use- 1.08 lbs of propane per hour
2 boilers = 21,500 btu/h each total=43,000btu/h (95% efficiency)
At -20 below will heat a 300 hp Cummins in less than 1 hour to start temp.
There is a generator heat exchanger that transfers generator heat to the coach heating system. A generator pre heat function is also used in the Primus system.