Here's a photo of one of the rear airbags on our coach. You can see the rubber flaking off the bottom; you can rub the airbag and little pieces flake off the surface. I'm trying to decide whether to replace them. I don't believe any are leaking, but the shop manager said he saw some cord showing on another one which I could not photograph because it is deflated.
I'm trying to decide whether or not to replace the air bags while the wheels are off the coach for brake work. I know it's hard to tell from a photo, but what do you think?
There's no time like the present. In my honest opinion.
Looks fine to me BUT you have it off NOW, so makes sense to replace instead of having to do the work all over again. Does it not??
Keep them as spares.
John H
Great advice from you all and another Forum friend who made a great point - we plan on keeping the coach for a good while, so why not replace them and get the benefit of the new parts? It just wasn't part of the plan at this time, but, oh well! Thanks everyone.
Looks a lot better than mine did but as said above, why not stick at least a couple of new ones on? They are really thick but you never can tell. About $157/ea and really fast shipping. At $600 for a rear set, good piece of mind. Excellent tip to keep the old ones as spares. Good photo by the way!
Pierce
You air bag looks just like ours, which we replaced this week. I will soon be posting photos of our old bag cut apart to show that the inside looks like new. Bags are not real thick and a lot of outside damage probably weakens bag at the important flex point. But the bag we cut apart shows blowout is probably not imminent.
Our air springs looked similar to the photograph when we bought the coach in April, 2010. One of the bags exhibited a leak while we were at FOT having fuel lines replaced in January 2013. We had FOT replace all the air springs immediately. It's one less item for concern for the next 12-15 years.
When I replaced my airbags two of the rear ones had two or three layers of cords showing, however, they still held air. When I cut it apart, the inside rubber looked new even though the outside rubber had flacked off. The bag you showed the picture of would probably hold air for years, however, I would relace at least the four rear airbags. The rear bags need 75 or 80psi, while the front ones only need 45 or 50psi. If you use an air rubber nozzle you can force the bag out and examine the rubber which is hidden, you may find some pebble damage.
They look about like mine, especially the ones right behind the wheels. I'm fixing to change all of mine, as others have said fix them now and no worry for the next many years. Or wait until one lets go about half way between lost and found and we all know the rest of that story (Lots of $$$ and lost time). As best I can find no local truck parts stores stock that bag, I have checked in RideWell and Goodyear as well, so I will do the on-line order thing.
I got 8 from http://www.truckspring.com/Products/Firestone-Reversible-Sleeve-Air-Spring__W01-358-9448.aspx (http://www.truckspring.com/Products/Firestone-Reversible-Sleeve-Air-Spring__W01-358-9448.aspx)
I ordered the airbags over the phone on Monday, got them Tuesday!! (Was Michigan to Michigan shipment - still...)
Got new bolts and washers from local Fastenal shop.
We posted many photos and descriptive of our air bag replacement with photos of cut out pieces of the old air bag.
Air Bags Replaced - 1997 U270 (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/air_bags_replaced_1997_u270.html)
We were pleased to have old rubber replaced. Reminds me how I feel when changing tires and batteries that seem to be working pretty well, but are long in the tooth. Ride is the same, but my brain feels better.
Thanks for the timely post Barry! ^.^d I am doing our air springs and the Koni FSD Shocks right now. The pictures are helpful... Question: Did removing the dock light help you access the air fitting or just determine where to make the access hole? I assume that you can also access the top bolt for the shock as well... By the way, did you notice much difference with the Koni FSD's? I am contemplating taking of the front wheels to facilitate the process, but may try to do it with them in place first. Was it worth the effort to remove the wheels?
Thanks, Don
Always better to remove wheels, but both shocks and air bags can be changed with wheels in place. Maybe turning the front wheels left or right can open that space.
We instantly felt a big difference when we drove out of the shop that installed our Koni FSD. But within an hour or so, it was hard to 'remember' how our old shocks felt. So both of you should pay great attention to your first drive to appreciate the FSD benefit. We have always felt that Koni FSD's were one of the very worthwhile changes we have made to our coach, on par of our MCD shades.
Yes, removing our dock light was a big help in seeing what we were working with on front air lines and can could give you wrench access, too. We could also see what was behind the space were going to cut out. We also remove the nuts holding the cables to the house battery switch from the docking light opening. Switch could be relocated if in the way.
But it turned out not difficult to make rectangular access holes on both sides, in our coach. And if we have a problem in the future, we have easy access to the air lines. All other air lines were completely in the open. Rear top air bag bolts that are between frame & bulkhead could be cut off after raising the nut to allow a saw blade under the nut.
Wyatt has a good point and I'd like to add that where you live also needs to considered. Aerospace 303 Protector is something I've used for years living in East Texas (Houston). The ABs on my air divider (40' Gooseneck) have been in place for over a dozen years and look excellent in spite of sitting in open weather with lots of sunshine the entire time.
Also, it is a good idea to forego putting anything (petroleum distillate spray tire dressing) of any brand on air bags.
Also pulled a Glide Ride air suspension 45' trailer (w/ABs for years) and never had an issue in spite of the miles and abuse. pc
We use Forever Black tire gel. Products - Forever Black Car Care Products (http://www.foreverblack.com/products.html) on tires and air bags.
We never use anything that makes it really shiny and contains petroleum.
Having fsd's put on as I type this. Norm
Don,
You may have to make a long "crow's foot" to get at one of the bolts on the front bags. I never took the wheels off, just jacked the frame way up.
Nice to install stainless nuts/washers if you get a chance. Not much electrical potential between the stainless and the stud. Installation with bag compressed with knee and supplied black vinyl cap then installed gets the bag installed in just several seconds if you have maximum clearance.
A lot of bags that have shown no damage on trucks or SOBs are not in line with the tires. A lot of stuff gets thrown up on them as you go down the road. Expect that road chemicals don't do much good either. My bulkhead bolts that failed were also in line with the tires.
Pierce
Thanks Pierce, I was fortunate enough to be able to borrow ace tool made by Foreforum member that works like a charm! Having a far bigger issue getting at the shock top bolt because they are put on with locknuts which are which are fighting me all the way off. Even though I have access to a Half inch impact wrench, can't even spin them off when I've already broken them loose with a long breaker bar. I struggled with the forward rear shock top bolt for over 2 1/2 hours last night to get it off. I'm quite sure that with the wheel off I could've done it in an hour or so with a whole lot less pain. I did presoak the bolts with liquid wrench, don't know how much that helped... I am definitely going to take the wheels off for the other side. One issue that I have is that the socket that I have is an inch and 5/16" and it's a bit loose. I know the right sizes 33 mm but I have to make do with what I have access to right now. Fortunately I have access to a very large torque wrench for breaking the lug nuts loose ( ^.^d thanks Bill C.!) and I went and bought a hundred and 110AC impact wrench to spin the lugs off when I have them broken loose. This should also aid me in getting the rest of the shock bolts off as long as I can get it in there. ::)
Don
Don,
In removing the wheel lug nuts, I like to use the socket on a "T" bar with a 6 foot or so pipe on the bar. This makes for an easy release of the first half turn or so. Any kind of impact wrench can do the job from here. This is especially important if the wheels have never been removed while you have owned it.
In replacing the wheels, I like to lightly lube the threads. This insures the fastener(s) will get the proper "stretch" for it's size and rating at a MUCH LOWER torque value. This is important to check for the next time you have to pull a wheel so you don't get stuck with one that refuses to come off because of some overzealous air gun operator sometime in the past.
Attached is a PDF of Fastenal's size and torque for a variety of sizes, thread pitches and grades. It covers dry and lubricated installation with a "K" factor for calculating the difference. This way, I can lube and safely torque our wheels to less than 400 foot lbs. and make it easier to remove them the next time. http://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Torque-Tension%20Chart%20for%20A307%20Gr5%20Gr8%20Gr9.pdf (http://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Torque-Tension%20Chart%20for%20A307%20Gr5%20Gr8%20Gr9.pdf)
A pipe along with a bathroom scale or Brett's fitting welded on the end of the pipe so a torque wrench can be used to apply proper torque is my suggestion.
Pierce
Everyone tells us not to lub wheel studs, but after we broke two studs during nut removal several years ago, we put anti-seize on every stud and then wiped off excess to coat threads and minimize lubricant. Last two wheel removals to clean slide pins came off ok, even though we have not put anymore anti seize on threads.
The critical issue with lube/no lube is that the proper torque is different.
Lube and torque to dry specs and you will way over-torque it.
I found a PDF on Alcoa's website that gives a torque setting for their various types of wheels. The torque setting specifications for hub piloted versus stud piloted are different as regards the lubricated or dry settings. They don't list a dry settings for the hub piloted wheels and they don't list the lube settings of the stud piloted wheels. Here is a picture of the chart.
Here is the text from the instruction page about lubricating the studs and flange nuts.
I looked and looked for a 33 mm socket for the wheel lugs locally calling Napa and everyone else I could think of, but had no luck. An Inch and 5/16 socket will work, but the ones I have available are a bit shallow for the rear lugs that have more threads showing on the stud. Tys even picked up a set of impact sockets that include a 1 5/16" 3/4 drive that is a little deeper and of course 6 sided. It would work, but there is a truck parts place about two blocks down the road so I rode my bicycle down and the only tool they had is a 33mm socket! It fits much better than the SAE sizes. The studs on our coach are 22mm and 1.50 thread pitch if you look at the chart, so the torque is 450 to 500 foot pounds lubricated as directed. Sure glad I have access to a torque wrench capable of applying that! Too lazy to do the leverage and calculations I guess... I did manage to get the passenger side rears off and what a difference! The access is priceless ^.^d so my advice to anyone else considering this, if it all possible to acquire the stuff to take your wheels off and do it if you're considering changing out your airbags and shocks. The hour or so it takes to Jack the coach up, place the stands, break the lugs loose and get the wheels off is worth it.
Don,
Looking good! How about a closeup photo of the socket with the brand name visible? Is it the reversible type for removing the inner duals in the back?
A Harbor Freight air powered jack would save the back here.
Pierce
Pierce,
Don has 3 of Bill Chaplin's air jacks and coach wheel dolly to work with, no back problems in the warehouse. :)
Dave,
After seeing the 3 air jacks in Bill's shop, I couldn't sleep because of the "Green Monster" effect. A Harbor Freight sale calmed me down but still need? a third to be even.
Have Bill take Don out to his old hanger and a tour of his Beech King Air. One impressive like new aircraft. Hitting the goose in the clouds is a good story too. When you think overhaul, check the price for an exchange on just one of his engines.
Wish I were there. Hi to Bill!
Pierce
Pierce, I hear the green monster knocking on my door... But I dare not let him in, because if I do, then I'm lost! I only have one puny 12 ton air Jack, but unfortunately it didn't even make the trip with me. Fortunately, however Bill and his excellent shop has provided all that I needed to take care of these essential upgrades. I tell you, the friends that I have made through Foreforums have been a godsend!
The wheel lugs on our 99' are different then yours Pierce, because our wheels are hubcentric and we just have 10 lug nuts on the duels. The 33 mm socket is not reversible, it is deep enough to reach the lugnut even with an inch of stud exposed. I believe your outer Lugnuts are an inch and a half, though I could be wrong about that. Here is a picture of the socket and one of my wheel lugs. Ah, What the heck, I will also throw in a few more pictures as well... ;D The last two pictures show more clearly the vertical reinforcements with gussets that I added to the bulkhead while doing that project.
While looking at the pictures, I just noticed that the Lugnut actually has the torque range stamped right on it! How cool is that?
Don