Given that the above-named items are all 20 years old, and we're going to be installing a residential refrigerator, this might be the time to replace the old stuff. I looked at Tweety's just now and they have a bazillion choices (okay, maybe not quite that many, but more than I want to count). Any suggestions on narrowing the search a bit?
Since we're going to be full-timers, but not hardcore boondockers, and we haven't spent as much time in the coach as we had hoped we would by now, we are a bit unsure of the actual needs. I'd like to be able to spend a night living normally (no television or a/c) without having dead batteries in the morning. There are two giant batteries that power the coach, and three normal-size ones that start the engine. I'm assuming that the generator starts off of the house batteries, since I've not seen a battery by it, but maybe it is hidden from view.
I found information that says I have a Taytronics 1500 W dc to ac inverter, and a MagneTek converter/battery charger. I think there might actually be two of those, but it is too dark now to see clearly. I'll check in the morning.
At any rate, now that you know what I (think I) have, what do I need? I know that I could buy a small pure sine wave inverter for the refrigerator, but it looks like it wouldn't cost a lot more to replace the whole Taytronics with something a bit larger. Is there one unit that will take care of everything, or do I need separate units?
I do prefer to buy products that are made in America whenever possible. There was quite a discussion a few months ago about the relative merits of one brand over another, and I'm wondering if anything has changed since.
David, having a big one for the house is good but as the fridge may be going pretty much all the time I would consider a small ps one just for the fridge circuit as it will use a lot less power just sitting there when on-not including the use for fridge. Stand by power usage is a big thing with large ones esp older ones. I put mine on a DPDT switch from coach feed and an inline 100 fuse. It uses so little battery power over night etc and it even powers the tv and sound system.
If you will be plugging in to power every couple of days you should be fine
John H
I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I'm a fan of separate devices as opposed to combination devices. I don't want an inverter/charger, for instance. I want a good charger and several inverters; customized to my needs.
I have 180-watt pure-sine inverters for the HDTV sets ($79 at Amazon). These can be safely connected to the cigarette lighter plugs. And disconnected easily. One of them will easily power an LED HDTV plus a BluRay unless you're going to have more than 40" (a 24" Samsung with a BluRay draws 50watts).
I have a 1600-watt pure-sine inverter that will power the curbside AC outlets from front to back (including the outside outlet). This is about equal to a 15-amp household power outlet and should be sufficient to power most things. If I were going to put in a residential fridge I'd probably go to 2,000-watt but still pure-sine. You want the inverter to be as close as possible to the battery bank as the current draw at 1600 watts will be considerable. But you also want the inverter in an area where it can be cooled by ambient air; or, at least, a fan to bring in air. Inverters have fans but if all they do is circulate warmer and warmer air dissipated by an inverter in a closed space bad things will happen.
My 1600-watt inverter is in place but I have not yet rewired the curbside AC line (although I do have the switch). It is an easy re-wire since the AC line passes directly behind the inverter and all I need to do is add the connection. The switch will go back under the bed but will still be able to detect when the inverter is on.
The microwave will not be on this line, unfortunately, and I am not sure how I'm going to handle that. Probably fire up the generator when we need the microwave. We do not have a propane oven. Although we do have portable enclosed grills.
YMMV,
Craig
If it were me, the first thing I'd be looking at replacing is that old style MagneTek converter/battery charger. They are notoriously known for over charging and boiling out batteries. You need one that has a new style smart charger. Some of us with older coaches have gone with the Progressive Dynamics PD9200 (PD9200 Series RV Power Converters (http://www.progressivedyn.com/power_converters_9200.html)) . But there are many choices. You can explore them at BestConverter - Converters, Inverters, Electrical Supplies, Electronics (http://www.bestconverter.com/). And while there are other places you can purchase these products, I have to say that Randy at Best Converters is tops when it comes to troubleshooting with a customer over the phone. He is known for going the extra mile! I don't mind spending a couple extra bucks when I get that kind of customer service!
I was able to read the labels on the two MagneTek converter/chargers. Both are 50A, and look like they might be in parallel. I'm assuming that I ought to go to the 60A rather than 45 A units.
I like the idea of separate units, so maybe I'll just get a pure sine wave inverter to handle the refrigerator and leave the Taytronics alone for now.
David,
Are they both connected and working? Normally I would think one would only have them connected to the house battery bank, at least that is how I am set up, along to most others I'm familiar with. Mine is connected to the two 8D agm battery bank. I use a Trik-L-Start to keep the chassis batteries up to snuff.
Both are connected, and both are humming. One is louder than the other. They are mounted up on a shelf in the big bay, and the labels are on the tops of the units, so reading them with trifocals was "interesting." I was pretty sure that the loud hum was coming from the outermost one, so I unplugged it and the noise dropped quite a bit. The other was humming, too, although nowhere near as loudly.
It looks like wires from each of the two units go to a connecting point under the shelf, which is mostly covered. We're going to be getting some nasty weather here in the next 24-36 hours, and I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow, so not much is going to get done on the coach for a couple of days. Once it warms up, probably next week, I'll see what I can see under there. I may have to borrow a friendly kid to look at stuff for me.
definitely replace those magnetic converters as already was mentioned, they tend to overcharge and boil batteries. I don't think the traytonics inverter is a pure sinewave inverter. I would not try to run a refrigerator from the traytonics inverter
No, the Taytronics is not a pure sine wave machine, so I'll probably get an inverter for the refrigerator for now. I can see us eventually either replacing the Taytronics with a similar machine OR a bunch of smaller inverters for specific purposes.
Yes, I'm starting to look for replacements for the MagneTek units. With snow, ice, and COLD coming I probably will not do much outside the next few days, but I can do some online research.
You should be able to only have one converter. I don't know why anyone would need 2 of the magnetic converters
I'll bet one is for the coach batteries, and other is for chassis batteries.
One of the Magna MS Series inverters would be positive.
I like the MS2812 and if the money is right the later model would be even better. The technology continues to amaze compared to the solar setup I have on my sailboat which is only a few years old (with 2 small inverters).
David,
Sounds like we're on about the same page in our coach refurbishment plans. Our '93 U280 has very similar OE electronics. My (stand-alone) inverter is the exact same 1500W Taytronics. My charger/converter is a single Todd Engineering Power Source 75 amp - slightly different design but same generation (and same problems) as your Magnetek's. My 2 coach (house) batteries are 3-year-old 8D (flooded) wet cells that I think have been badly abused by the old-tech charger. I have decided to replace my charger/converter first, because it is used every time we plug in to shore power. After the new "smart" charger/converter is in place, I will install 2 new 8D AGM coach batteries. This will eliminate the horrible body contortions required (on my coach) to check the battery water level. My last priority will be replacing the inverter, since (initially at least) we don't anticipate using it a great deal.
I will second the vote for Randy at Best Converters. He seems very knowledgeable about RV electrics and what works best in any given situation. For my first step (new charger) he recommended the Powermax Boondocker PM4B-75 (Powermax Boondocker Converters (http://www.bestconverter.com/Powermax-Boondocker-Converters_c_197.html)). I have one headed my way now. I also added a Ultra Trik-L-Start to my order, because I like the idea that the engine start batteries will be charged correctly and automatically every time I am plugged in to shore power. (Ultra Trik-L-Start (http://www.bestconverter.com/Ultra-Trik-L-Start_c_124.html))
Good luck with your upgrades. Keep us informed of your choices. I believe one of the great benefits of this forum is learning from the experiences of other members.
Chuck, if I'm understanding you correctly, you have (on the way) the PM4B-75 for the house batteries. That provides charging and the 12vdc that much of the coach needs for daily living. You also have (on the way) the Trik-L-Start for your engine batteries. Is this correct? That sounds like a better combination than the two MagneTek units that I have. I have two 50A MagneTek units that may or may not be tied together (too cold to check now), but keeping the two battery banks separated unless I use the boost switch sounds like a good idea. I would think that 75A ought to be enough capacity for running the coach and charging the house batteries.
I learnt the hard way,
I sank my boat, Which killed all my electrics below two feet above the bottom of the hulls,
Batterys, Invertor, MPPT controler, Meter, Etc Etc,
1800 watt Xantrax invertor, Made in China, I thought they were USA made, NOPE, Made in China,
So I replaced the Xantrax invertor with a Chinese made 5000 Watt, 10,000 surge, with all the heat cutouts installed,
Its a pure sine wave invertor,, 240 Volt, 12 volts,
$500-00 AUD Delivered,
$1400-00 for all my new electrics from China, The meter was $300-00 from USA, It was $8000-00 worth if I bought the Country Brands,
The Chinese dont make one that I was Happy with, The Battery meter,
My Coach will be a copy of my boat, Its much simpler, easier to work on, and it will be all solar, No Genny,
The 1800 watt invertor on my boat ran the microwave, Computer, TV, and every thing else on my boat, I never ran out of power,
400 amp hour of Batterys, 380 watts of solar, I dont have a battery charger,
The solar, wind, and main motor, pump power straight into the Batterys,
All Power comes out through the Invertor connected to the Batterys,
It runs a 500 watt drill and a 5 inch grinder at the same time, Loaded Heavily, On near dead flat batterys,
Yes, correct on both.
Randy suggested the PM4B-75 because my old charger/converter put out 75 amps. He said I should keep the max output about the same, if possible.
I've seen
many recommendations on the forum for the Trik-L-Start. I figure you can't go wrong adding one of those to your coach.
I just got off the phone with Randy, and he set me up with all that I need. He thought that the two MagneTek units are in parallel, and both are feeding the house batteries. The Trik-L-Start unit actually piggybacks on the Power Max units, charging the engine batteries when I'm hooked up to shore power and the house batteries aren't taking everything.
All of this stuff should arrive sometime next week, so after the blizzard is gone and weather warms up a bit I'll go out and see what I can do. Stand by for more questions.
FedEx just dropped off a large box with my new chargers. The new inverter is on back order, but should be here by the end of the month. Now if the weather would cooperate I can go work on the coach.
David,
Did I understand you to say, genset starts off house battery?
My u280 is off the engine battery.
I don't know which battery set starts the generator. That's one of the things I'll need to find out. There isn't much difference in cable length from engine batteries or house batteries, but the house ones are a few feet closer.
Dave does your inverter only invert then? I guess I remember now that you are putting in a small inverter for the refrigerator
On my coach (and as shown in the schematics) the generator is started with the house batteries. The 12 volt cable that supplies the generator is attached to the battery disconnect switch that is near the entry steps on every coach. However the connection is made on the battery side of the switch so the generator is never disconnected by the switch. I think this was just a convenient place to make the connection for Foretravel since it's then a short run to the other side of the coach where the generator is. Most people don't realize it, but there is an alternator on the generator that will help charge your batteries but its output isn't very significant since it's only intended to recharge a small dedicated battery for standalone (non RV) installations. When I first start the generator and before the transfer switch kicks in, I see the house battery voltage rise due to this little alternator.
Not all gensets have the belt driven alternator, mine does not, have the Power Tech, no alternator on motor.
The weather guessers are thinking that Sunday afternoon might be pretty nice, so maybe I'll be able to work on the coach a bit then. I'll have to look and see what brand of generator I have, and whether it has an alternator on it. When I had it out last fall I didn't really pay attention to that.
David, it sounds like you are on the right path with your current purchases. Take time to consider what batteries to buy. I just bought two 8D, AGM's from Orielly's for $454 per battery, 240 amp hours each. I expect 7 to 10 years out of them. But I think you can still get Interstate 8D Lead Acid batteries at Sam's Club for abut $160 each. With the new smart charger they should last at least three years so if you are willing to maintain the water levels, they are probably a better value.
With two 8D's we can go about three days in moderate temps not using the TV and Dish DVR. You must disconnect the DVR, TVs, antenna booster and blue ray or DVD players as they have phantom loads when plugged in. I also turn off all chargers and the printer. We do use an electric coffee maker each morning and sparing use of the microwave, no more than six minutes a day for warning up drinks. We use of lights and water pump as normal, one shower each per three days. We usually then have to run the generator for about 6 hours to get a 95% charge. Thereafter we can only go two days until we have to start the generator again. Everyone has different usage levels but I thought this might help you get a rough idea of what to expect. We do not have a residential refrigerator.
The old MagneTek units are out, I have given blood, and now I'm about ready to put the new ones in. Of course, first I have to build the shelf for them, but that shouldn't be too much of a pain. Being a cheapskate, I'm cutting the low voltage wires off of the old units and reusing them with the new. They are the proper wire size and already the proper length. Temps won't be as warm tomorrow as today, but it still won't take all that long to put the new units back in.
Now, how in the world am I supposed to connect to the isolator? Some genius decided that it ought to be placed aft of the house batteries with no access panel. I suppose I raise the rear of the coach up, put the safety stands in, and then crawl under next to what looks like a muffler. That ought to be interesting. Wonder if Xtreme has ever added an access door in that area.
Why would you need to connect to the isolator if you are connecting the new converters to the existing wires from the old converters as they connect to the batteries and the isolator connects to the batteries also.?
I also bought a Trik-L-Start to keep the engine batteries charged when parked. First things first, though. Tomorrow I'll get the two new chargers installed, reconnect both sets of batteries, plug it in, and see what happens. I think that I may have Jo Ann by the breaker and me by the coach. If something looks/sounds/smells funny I can yell and she can flip the breaker. Assuming all works properly, and I don't let out any magic smoke, on to the engine codes.
David, You are right that access to the isolator is from behind the rear wheel, lay on your back scuttle under the coach ( with safety stands in place ), there it is. Also on the isolator probably is at least one solenoid and one relay.
Gary B
I find myself wondering the same thing.
Craig
The Trik-L-Start is commonly connected at the isolator, hence David's need to access same.
David, your setup might be different, cuz of different power plant, but on my U280 there is lots of room to work around the isolator area. Like Gary said, make like a crab and limbo under the side of the coach. After that, on my coach at least, I can sit upright very comfortably between the muffler and the isolator board, with much elbow room. Good luck with your project - I'll be doing exactly the same thing in a few days.
I'm taking a break right now from putting in the new battery chargers. That should be done right after lunch. Then I'll add some more antifreeze and fire up the big engine, get the trouble codes, and raise the rear as high as I can. Then I can put in the safety stands and let the muffler cool off. If I don't get to the Trik-L-Charger today there is always tomorrow.
I kind of overdid a bit yesterday afternoon, and when I came in my back was quite sore, so I'm going to go slower today.
Or send back trick l start and get more reliable dedicated charger (110 volt) from battery minder or battery tender
What is it that makes a "dedicated 110 volt charger" more reliable?