Doing the airbags and shock change out brought me to the point of addressing something that has been bugging me every since we first looked at our coach at the dealership. I am talking about the rotten first step issue which I noticed the first time I stepped inside the coach, so I knew that this was an issue going in... I just never thought it would take me this long to get around to it. However, the bulkhead issues and a few other things got in the way. Anyway, while having the front passenger wheel off, I couldn't overlook that problem anymore. The plywood underneath was completely rotted out and the damage extended to the bottom of the vertical sections of plywood on either side.
Make no mistake, this is not a project for the faint of heart, at least how I am approaching it. I think the wood damage was probably worse on our coach than most... I doubt that addressing it as soon as we got it home from the dealer would have made a substantial difference in the scope of the project.
I chose to use Starboard as a replacement for the plywood as it is impervious to water and is even available with an anti-texture on one side. I first heard of Starboard marine board froM Tim F. from the forummwhen he graciously gave me his phone number while I was inspecting the coach (thanks Tim!). He had his coach repaired at MOT using the stuff.
This will be a multiparty post as it is fairly involved to describe the steps I took to arrive at what I think is an optimal solution.
Here are some pictures of the process starting with the demo of the bottom step... I am still in the process and will post more as time permits.
Don
Don, do not cover up as I think I will fly out to inspect it tomorrow!!! :P ^.^d
To make sure it meets guidlines. Flight arrives 7 40pm looking forward to seeing you all.
John H
Dan, I used a 1/4" aluminum plate the screwed plywood to it on my bottom step of my GV.
Verrrry clean - looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Don,
Yours much worse than mine - maybe your coach saw a little salt along the way?
Three years and Starboard working great. Want to get the Xtreme step conversion next.
Tim,
I don't think road salt was an issue with our coach, the rest of the undercarriage is rust free and pretty clean, which was why I didn't look closer at the bulkhead when we got it. I believe the issue here was a poor seal at the bottom of the door and run off from the air-conditioners and condensation etc. working it's way into the wood. The real Achilles' heel of the construction of the 1st step in our coach is the insulation underneath the bottom step. Isn't sealed on the sides in front of the wheel or behind the headlight and the insulation itself is fairly porous and holds on to water. When I scraped the gooey insulation out, it was soaking wet.
Rest assured when it is all said and done, I will make sure the area is sealed and use insulation that is non permeable to boot.
Don
We had our bottom step replaced at FOT (would have done it myself if I'd known how easy it was) and the tech explained that it was a "wet step", since the bottom of the door really doesn't seal the water out, so the waterproofing around the step needs to be good and over 10-15 years, water gets into the wood, with predictable results. Not sure how I would seal the door better, since a heavy rain seems to get in from the hinge side and under the bottom, and then pools on the step. The later door design seems much better. Could probably have the later door retrofitted for maybe $15K :))
I have gone over my door every inch and find that most of the problem is from the top and have fixed it. No water ever in the step area now.
JohnH
Don,
God stuff and as always, I would expect any of your work to be top shelf. Funny, I had to do the first step on my U-270 when I had it (plywood) and then the same issue on my U-320 (Starboard). Wasn't expensive (Less than a coach buck each time - inexpensive being a relative thing.......) but based on my experience, it would seem to be very prevalent in the fleet.
Love the pictures, keep them coming.
A Meet & Greet meeting cocktail hour (S) will be held tonight in Arlington/ Pantego TX @ about 8:00 PM till ??? ( john does not arrive till 19:45 )
Meet John Haygarth and Don Fera in person !!
A gathering will also be held in Alvarado TX on Sunday morning about 10 till Don leaves for Extreme.
Call 817.274.0853 for location and directions
:D ooh that cuts deep Dave! :o but I do think how easy the repair is, is inversely proportional to how bad the damage is. It also depends on which kind of outcome you are desirous of. In my case, returning to the former status quo is never enough... sometimes though, I really wish I could let it go ::) However, I'm always more interested in the outcome than in the process. The outcome persist for a long time while the pain of the process fades soon enough.
Don
Wow, that's encouraging! Does your coach have the earlier door design?
I considered that, bit it wanted to get rid of the vinyl treads (because they cover up problems just like the black ribbed rubber on the wet bay floor), so for me , the Starbord is ideal because it doesn't need to be covered. At three quarter inches thick, it is plenty strong enough for this span and I have it supported all the way around the perimeter. I have added a picture from underneath that show the stainless flat bar added underneath at the plywood/Starboard joint and the angle aluminum screwed to the frame under the front edge. The Starboard is in two sections offset top to bottom so that it is flush with the trim inside the coach.
Don
It's finally mostly done! Time to head for NAC tomorrow so I have to wrap it up even though I still have some stuff to do on the project. I have a lot of clean up and packing to do, So I won't say much about it now but I will post some more pictures. As is obvious from the pictures, I still need to trim the sides of the step well and for now, I'm just going to use some ceiling carpet material. I'm not happy with the idea of a wet step design, but at least I know that the material that I used won't rot. When I get some time, I'm going to figure out something to seal the bottom of the door when it is shut. I added a secret compartment ;D No hinge, just a friction fit and fit it does! I still need to reinsulate the outside of the compartment, but I added some dynamat under the top step on the aluminum flashing. I will add more underneath as well as an inch of Polyurethane foam and a 1/2" of some other stuff.
Don
Don that looks like it will last forever. I like the hidden compartment idea especially. Great job once again.
Mark
Thanks Mark! No time to go into detail right now, but I did want to mention that I used JB Weld quick wood for filling in some voids left by rotten bottom front edge of the vertical sides of the step compartment behind the door frame. The stuff is expensive, but is amazing to work with for feeling small to medium voids. Once you get it pliable you can really compress it into a void and it forms to the shape of the void and dries very hard and strong. It also holds screws well, though all it's doing in my case, is taking up space.
Don
Thanks for the info Don. Safe travels to Nac.
Mark
Don,
Excellent work-- as we have all come to expect!
Enjoy returning to your baby's birthplace.
Brett
;D ^.^d thanks Brett! We will enjoy giving our baby a bit of a facelift with a headlight conversion... And perhaps a few other miscellaneous items while were there. ::)
LED tail lights make it look very modern... and roof paint..... Are you using Xtreme or FOT for the headlights? How about roof paint? Residential Refrig? It goes on and on...
Starboard for all the steps- NEAT!. I just have the first step in Starboard, but you wouldn't know it since original vinyl went back down on top of it. Love the hidden compartment. Very nice work as usual...
Have fun and be safe -
Don, it looks really nice, as expected. I'm sure it doesn't have the flexibility it had when we met. Have a safe trip to Nac. Wish I had time to get there. MOT has a 96 320 I would like to see ^.^d ^.^d but no time to get there yet.
Larry
Don, another great job, but now your secret compartment is not secret any more! You told us all where it is.
Great pictures, have a good time at the factory.
Richard B
Well the meet and greet was a bit late due to our flight being 2 hrs + late. Had a great time with Bill Dave C and of course Don and tys. Also met others but now are here in Van Horne for the night on way back home. Have lots of work to do in this GV to bring it up to specs and a few other things I did not expect. Thats life I guess but as you know Bill C and Dave & Dollie C are super people, hope to see more of them on our side of Continent. Personally saw Dons work and can attest to the fact it is so so ( no it is 100% perfect). Whirlwind trip but worth it to meet other Fore Forum people.
JohnH
Ah Richard... That is just one of the semi-secret compartments (known only to the small group of intrepid Foretravelr's who are part of our best kept RV'ing secret society. I could tell you where the real secret compartment is, but then I would have to yada yada yada... :P
Don
We are using Xtreme for the headlights and some variant of the level one makeover. We won't have the original graphics duplicated in paint, but maybe a partial as in no bottom stripes. I am considering the roof paint option, but I will be covering most of the exposed roof with Unisolar peel and stick panels and I'm wondering how the roof paint might affect the adhesion of the panels. After looking at Rich Bowman's roof, which was done at Foretravel, I think it would probably be fine... perhaps the pebbly texture might even make them stick better. I like the LED taillights, but the expense might take that out of the must do category, so replacement LED fixtures that fit the present cutouts might be a good compromise.
Don
Art,
Well done! WHen I had the level one on my U-270, James said we needed to stay with the same pattern and repaint since the gelcoat would never buff out so he couldn't change the scheme. will be interested in how you do it and how it turns out - I think my U-270 is still on James website - James did the headlights on that coach as well
Did the LED's at Xtreme and the roof a couple of years ago - LOVE, LOVE, LOVE both
Well, jumped into the bottom step this morning and need some advice! There is a box tube that runs across the front of the opening and I am wondering if there is another in the back of the step? The sheet metal is shot, so need to take it out and hope that I can find some starboard to replace the existing step, per Don. Any help you can send my way, would be most appreciated!
Maybe I'm missing something, but if you're replacing both the wood and sheet metal you should know if there's a tubular framing piece in the back when you remove the wood and sheet metal that forms the first step.
I'm betting not.
I remember showcasing a Monaco Windsor at a local RV dealer here and the salesman told me it was the only coach with steel entry steps.
I don't want to remove all the steps, but thanks. I know that there is one in front, just thought I would ask if there was one further back, so I did not have to remove anymore than need be.
I just amended my previous post because I'm not sure what you mean.
Remove anymore what?
Recently completed (kind of ) my step project. I followed Dons advice to use starboard, but didn't follow his thought of not using the built in nonskid. He is correct to say that it is harder to clean and attracts dirt like theres no tomorrow. What ever that means...
Still have some trim to do but it turned out good enough.
Excellent project!
Before I opened the thread, the title made me think it would pertain the the hinged-lower-lip step. Year before last, a man backed his pickup into the driveway and jammed his tire so hard against the step that it gashed a hole in his tire. I was amazed, at the time, to see no damage to the step. Little did I know then that the step would flex more and more, as months went by. He had caused the power step enclosure box to tear where the air rams are screwed to the back of it.
In Florida, a man (much heavier than myself) nearly fell because the step gave way so much. I HAD to get it fixed. My local mechanic just finished fabricating angle iron supports to attach on the tubular steel uprights, at the side of the box, and go around the back corners of the box. Now the air rams are secured to sturdy angle iron anchors, rather than merely the back of the fiberglass box.
Joe,
Here are some more pictures which may not have been posted in other threads which may give you some more useful info on your project. Just to bring the status of my project up to date, I include one picture of the current state of the step. I finally got around to lining the sides of the step well with the same material I used for the cockpit flooring, but I plan to address the hard to clean aspects of the aggressive nonskid texture by capping the steps with some ΒΌ" starboard that is not specifically designed with a non-skid texture. In my opinion, the standard finish (similar to the plastic cutting boards commonly found) will provide adequate grip while being much easier to clean. Previously, I just had the sides covered with some of the same Ozite carpet material that is used as headliner in the coaches of this vintage. I never thought the stuff would be there for 7 years! :o I originally just planned on using it as a pattern
Don
Don starboard comes in black and a couple other shades of gray. Might have to special order but might be a better option for not showing dirt.
I have .250" Sandshade Textured SEABOARD StarBoard already and have used the stuff for a number of different projects. It is the nonskid texture that makes the other so hard to clean. My lady is very color sensitive, so black or grey is out. Even with my less discriminating color palate, I can see that the sand shade goes with our interior much better, but thanks for the suggestions! There is a place in San Diego where I can go purchase the stuff and they will cut to suit. It is also where I got my FRP when repairing my basement/bulkhead.
HDPE SEABOARD 0.250" x 54" x 96" Sandshade Textured HDPE SEABOARD Marine... (http://www.eplastics.com/Sand-Textured-SEABOARD-HDPE-Marine-Board-UV-Resistant-SEABOARDSEABOARDSAND0-250TEX54X96)
Don
Thanks Don, yes that does help! Bruce, aka bbeame called me as well today and gave me some tips on how he did his. I spent the morning going from lumber yard to just about anything that would have something I could use to repair the step. Nothing! No marine plywood, etc., so will be making a trip to Provo tomorrow, about 80 miles to see what HD and Lowe's have to offer! Will post as we go! Not going to go to tearing out all the steps right now, so will put in either treated or marine grade 3/4 plywood and secure it to the next step. Will see how that goes.
Thank you all for your tips/tricks on this project!
All the aluminum rivets failed on our steel entry step and it was a mess from collecting water. After sandblasting, spray galvanizing and using frame black paint, I drilled and tapped for stainless button head cap screws. Box of 50 is less than $10 delivered. See attached photo.
After reading above posts and spending an hour with a carpet cleaner, I'm looking for a vinyl DIY replacement for the entry stairs. They do get dirty just looking at them. The wool cleans up like new but gets dirty in just a couple of minutes. Our wood is in good shape.
Pierce
When I bought my coach the previous owner had redone the floors and the steps. He did a beautiful job and the steps look like
corian. The fiber glass cover fell off my step and to fix it I had to take off the step and replacing it I used stainless hex bolts.
Update: made the trip to Provo and their local Home Depot for items needed to repair our step! Got er done! All is good! Thanks everyone for your tips, etc. on this fix! First step is solid as a rock now!