During the night time driving danger posting, bright headlights were mentioned.
The higher the voltage to a headlight bulb, the brighter the bulb. The highest voltage on our coach comes directly from the alternator, which is also connected to the isolator middle connector. Some have run a large diameter wire from isolator center to front of coach, connected to normally open relay points, and also to relay coil. Relay common is to bulb, the wire that was connected to bulb is to normally closed points.
Whenever alternator is putting out power (engine is running), relay will close and higher voltage will power headlight. If engine is not running, bulb will be powered with normal voltage. A second relay is needed to only allow the higher alternator voltage when headlight switch is on.
I can buy an LED direct replacement for my 14-year-old Jeep Wrangler. It's not cheap, but it plugs right in.
It would be nice if more LED replacements were available. A multi-thousand-dollar complete remodel seems like overkill to me.
Craig
For sure... but when you factor in the "facelift" it gives the coach, I am happy to do it :D Besides, on the Unicoach, the headlights sit so low, I don't think brighter headlight lamps really fix the problem even if they do help a lot.
Don
This is a very timely subject for us. I've had some suggestions from various forum members about running heavier gauge wire from the isolator and using relay to control the headlights, but I need to come up with some specifics so I can buy the necessary parts (Relays etc.). I can certainly run the wire, but I'm wondering what the gauge really needs to be to get reasonable level of benefits versus the hassle of running heavy gauge wire. There is already some 10 gauge wire running front to back in the extra bundle, And I'm wondering if anybody has used that or if it isn't adequate. I don't have the current draw information for the specific lights that are getting put in at this time in order to calculate the ideal gage of wiring. So if anybody already has this information, please feel free to post it! Or if you have notes from having done the project yourself... I definitely interested learning from your experience.
Don
Don here is a drwg of circuit that works. I did this on my car driving lites. Just used #14 wire from relay to lites and feed from battery- rest was usual size.
Simple to do
John H
Gary Omel did that very project at Xtreme when I was there a bit over a year ago. I would ask him or maybe James and see what they say.
Gary did give me some suggestions... but I haven't acted upon them as yet. I guess what I was hoping for was a parts list and some specific instructions. I am capable of doing the research myself, but was just feeling lazy... After talking to Rance however, I'll just wait and see how it looks with the OEM wiring before I worry about the conversion. Even though the voltage will be lower, these lights are going to be so much brighter (and higher!) than the old ones, that I may not feel the compulsion to make that particular upgrade. I may however do the HID upgrade on the low beams in the not-too-distant future...
Don
Had Xtreme On last two coaches, Never use high beams and people often think I have high beams on and flash me to go dim. Stock wiring.
That said, more is better....
John's diagram is great to improve an auto's headlights, where alternator is connected to the battery. Since our alternator is not connected to battery, when engine is not running, there is no current from alternator. So an additional relay is needed somewhere to switch between alternator and battery.
With long runs, almost every wire size will have some voltage drop, so the bigger diameter the better.
My thought is why would you really need headlites to be brighter if you are not using engine??
Yes , the wires should be larger as the run is so much more than the car, but IMHO can still be connected to engine battery, and that drwg gives you both options.
JohnH
Without a relay to redirect battery to bulbs, headlights would not work if engine is not running. Headlight do not need to be brighter not driving, but they may need to be turned on while stopped. Relay is needed to choose between battery & alternator.
We had our high, low & fog lights upgraded at Xtreme last year. The difference in light output was not significant compared to the OEM headlights. The fog lamps were much brighter. After talking to Gary Omel I upgraded the power supply to the head lamps. The difference in light output is impressive.
As already posted, if voltage at the headlights is more than half a volt lower than battery voltage, $20 for two relays and a little re-wiring will cure it.
Bob, can you give details and parts list for your head lite power supply upgrade. Thanks jc
I ran a fused(100A) 4GA welding cable from the battery isolator to a pair of 80 amp continuous duty solenoids. The solenoids output to the lamps is protected by a 30amp Auto Reset Circuit Breaker. All lamps have their own #10 wire feed from the breaker. The OEM wiring previously used to energize the lamps now operates the solenoids.
Bob's modification clearly gives best voltage at the lights.
But, there is another alternative for far less work (and a little less voltage):
Instead of coming off the battery isolator (back of coach), you use the chassis battery side of the ignition solenoid (under dash) as power source (with inline fuse). OE wiring is used as trigger to close separate relays for high and low beam.
Been there, done that.
Make sure you have a good ground connection.
I recently installed new headlights and HID conversions. Turned the lights on with the dash switch - no lights. Checked the voltage to the ballasts and all looked good. Removed a ballast and bulb and touched the wires directly to my car battery. The light came on just like it is supposed to work. So I rechecked the voltage at the wires that originally fed the headlights. Read 12+ volts. I re-installed the HID kit and connected the ballast ground wire directly to the coach frame and it worked perfectly. Changed the ground connection on the other headlight and it fired up also.
Apparently, the ground wire in the coach headlight harness was OK for the OEM headlights and the voltmeter, but not good enough to fire the ballasts for the HID's.
BTW, the light output from the HID bulbs in projector headlights is impressive. On a 3 week trip in November, we drove often at night and were amazed by the light output.
Hi all,
I went through the headlight dilemma several years ago. What I chose to do was to both change the bulb to a slightly higher power bulb and add relays right at the headlights. The results were quite satisfying, but not spectacular. The relays changed the voltage at the bulb from 1 volt under battery voltage to 0.3 volts for the biggest improvement. The change from a 45 watt to a 55 watt bulb also helped. And yes, I connected it all to the large feed wire under the dash. I expect I have less voltage drop connecting there than if I had run a cable from the rear. I wouldn't have run as large a cable as Foretravel did. I would be afraid of connecting the lights directly to the alternator terminal as the overvoltage would significantly shorten the bulb life. The alternator is set overvoltage to allow for the drop of the isolator.
If I were to do the mods today, I think I would try an HID conversion. They cost WAY less now than they did when I made the changes. I also notice that my plastic lenses are showing the first stages of fogging. (My coach is going on 14 years old! How is that possible?) That will kill the light very fast. I just bought a polishing kit for mine, but have not done the actual polishing yet.
If anyone is interested in seeing what I did on my headlights, I have it on my webpage at:
Headlight Mods (http://www.masonclan.org/Motorhomemods/ftheadlights.html)
Happy New Year!
Dick Mason
Prescott, AZ
2000 36' U270
Great to hear from you Dick. It's been a while since you've posted...I've used the polishing kit from 3M on the headlights and it's worked just fine for me.
ps: Thanks again for being my inspiration to undertake the TV mods on Forrest. All the best.
Read your mods with great interest. Need to replace three of my yellowed housings to new ones.
I see the outers from the broncos but how to get the inners without the turn signals?
Did foretravel use the stock entire bronco assembly?
Thanks for any help....
Happy hour starts @ 5 PM.......... period
Unless geographic location require earlier due to lack of enough to light to open the bottle/can.
Who needs headlights
Hi guys,
Thanks for missing me. I'm still around, but haven't really done much lately with the coach, except drive it, and I'm doing less of that. Other projects and doctors have taken up a lot of my time lately, but I still love my U270!
Nowadays, I'm with you Bill. I do my best to avoid night driving, so I haven't really thought too much about my headlights lately, otherwise I probably would have gone HID with them.
I am not doing much long distance driving, mostly local rallies and family visits. I'm old, retired, and just not in that much of a hurry any more that I cannot quit early. Feels great not to have to rush!
Dick
Bob the lights are all from the ford pickup like 88-91 and foretravel just cut off the park lights for the inner lights. When you take them out, you will see how they did that.
Used to enjoy the days activities in an area then drive after dinner to our next area. Max was midnight.
We were 41 and 31 years old then.
Self contained foretravel dry camped in the 80's. Great adventure then.
Those who have used alternator voltage report no significant or measurable shorter life of bulb or any other negative issues. The point is to use the overvoltage from the alternator to power the bulbs with a higher voltage.
I would be surprised if that .7 VDC higher voltage made it all the way from alternator or alternator terminal of isolator all the way to the head lights. Suspect that would be about the line loss on that long run. So, even if alternator putting out 15.0, I doubt that the lights see more than low to mid 14's-- within their tolerance range.
Just maybe when you need brighter lighting, it is a sign that you should stay off the road at night ? :o
Considering doing the low beam HID Xenon upgrade on our new headlight conversion vs. the halogen the fixtures come with... any thoughts as to color temperature? Which is the more comfortable and provides the best vision? The 4200K range being towards the yellower side and 6000K and above, the bluer...
I'd go for the 4200, the blue colors are for effect only. Less effective light as I understand it, blue light shining on a black road you get the css effect but it looks so cool....
Just out of curiosity, are the HID lights DOT approved? Might be an issue if getting it inspected in Ca.
I agree, the blue color is for looks only. More towards yellow would be my choice, it cuts through fog and haze. Blue reflects and scatters in fog and haze.
The ones that I was looking at are... for low beams only though. Still researching the issue. I despise the blue look myself... at least from oncoming traffic or in the rear view mirror. I would only consider it if there was a functional reason. Glad to hear there is not!
Don
I have 6000's. They are actually quite white. The blue HID's are 10,000 and 12,000.
I was reluctant, at first, to get 6000's but the whole package consisted of complete projector headlights and the 6000 conversion kits. Total cost was $200 so I wasn't going to get too hung up with the idea that they were 6000 instead of 4300.
Now that I have driven at night, and in rain and fog, I don't think I would be happy with lights that weren't this white.
Those crazy blue ones aren't 6000's.
My understanding is that the color temperature of daylight at noon on a clear day is around 6000. Therefore, I would think that 6000 would be an ideal color for headlights. Most of the OEM HIDs appear to be around that color. At some point in the future I hope to convert to LED (if the technology has sufficiently matured) or HID lighting, probably in the 6000 range.
I'm also curious about the 120mm outer lights in the Xtreme conversions. I wonder if Hella has any lights in the 120mm size with the "Angel Eyes" feature, which seem to make excellent Daytime Running Lights. It would be nice if Xtreme also produced conversions with all four headlights in the 90mm size.