After it sits over night or for a couple weeks it starts, runs fine for a few minutes and then stalls. It seems to need to clear some air I suspect and then runs fine. It did this once a couple months ago and on our trip last week it did it after each time it sat. For brief stops it does not do this. So I think it is getting air somewhere in the system? I looked at the clear filter and I can see fuel looking like it is sheeting into it? I have never viewed it while running before so I don't know if that is the norm?
Any thoughts or recommendations?
I would check that my filters are all on tight then I would start at the engine fuel line and follow them back to the tank. Looking for cracks that will leak and allow the system to cyphine the fuel back to the tank. If your 320 is like mine it is very hard to see the lines. You may have to replace the lines. 15 years is about it.
This is typical symptoms of failed fuel lines. You are due.
As the posts above say, good chance it's fuel lines but replace both fuel filters first and then see if the problem is still there. Guess which costs the most to replace. Fitting or filter O ring can also let air in.
Pierce
One thing about these fuel lines that has always interested me is- of the ones that have failed, what percentage are on "full time coaches", and the locations of them as far as storage. In other words, does temperature play a part in thiis breakdown as much as age?
Would be interesting if Michelle could set up a chart for people who have had to replace could answer these 3 questions.
1.Do you full time.
2.Area (State) of main domicle of coach.
3.Age of coach at replacement time.
JohnH
1.Do you full time.
2.Area (State) of main domicle of coach.
3.Age of coach at replacement time.
JohnH
[/quote]
Half time, 6 in TX in the winter and 6 parked by house in the summers
TX winters / CO summers
15 years old when the PO had it done (11/12), when it would not run to leave Camp Foretravel, how lucky was that?
Seems we are seeing years, 97-99's reports of first problems and then replacement.
1997 U295
Part timer - a few weeks each year
Coach "lived" in airplane hangar in southeast Texas 1997-2010
Coach lived outside in southeast Texas 2010-present
Generator quit running reliably in December, 2012
Fuel lines replace January, 2013
It is also a symptom of a Racor originally put in going bad too. I changed mine out and just did the fuel lines too.
Part timer but put about 30k on a year
Stored inside the garage
Virginia.
I think it is just the age.
I have been seeing all the posts regarding the fuel lines and know I am likely due. I considered doing them last summer when we where in Nac. But before we left I talked to my mechanic buddy and he looked with me at what we could see (not much) and we thought they looked good. I guess I will try the filters first and hope for the best but I am sure the fuel lines are in my future. Any one know someone who is familiar with doing them in south Fla?
Full-timer-9 months/year traveling southwest from Texas to Arizona, balance undercover on Cape Cod.
Replace 10/13
It's just age.
Looks like you may be right Brett but why only so few units out of all built since 96 or so have had the problem. Ours is a 2000 and no hint and lines look perfect(what I can see of them).
My feeling is that it is also a heat problem(meaning ambient temps in atmosphere).??
johnH
The heat comes from the hot fuel. The less fuel in the tank while driving, the hotter it will be. I can't touch the tank after driving an hour or so. Hot weather will raise it even further. A cooler on the fuel return line would drop it quite a bit. Our tanks are not exposed like a truck so the fuel tank has no airflow around it. Hot fuel in fuel lines made of marginal material may shorten their life considerably. Just follow the automatic transmission lifespan vs ATF temp graphs.
Pierce
So I have not replaced the filters before and I am not clear on what the clear filter is next to the Racor? Should I be doing something with this clear section as well? And I assume I should pre-fill the new filter?
That is the part that leaks air. I would look to replace that first then the fuel lines. I might do them together if I was at a location to do it.
Phil,
When I lived there some 13 years ago I used Palm RV Centers. Check to see if they are still in business. This dealer was owned by the truck service facility next door to it. 2441 S. SR 7 (441), Ft. Lauderdale. FL 33317; 954-584-1910 (Palm Truck Centers - Peterbilt and Isuzu - New and Used Medium and Heavy Trucks (http://www.palmtruckrv.com)). I got this information from an old receipt. So, please check into it and see if they are still there.
Oh yes Pierce I forgot to mention that on our 295 we have a fuel line cooler sitting on top of the CAC/Rad facing the open grille so I wonder if that has helped us so far have no issues with fuel lines???
Maybe not but also maybe!!
I will one day soon pull the fuel tank cover and see if I can check the connections there. If it does look like they are "getting there" I will run new ones under the coach in an aluminum track bolted to frame, with the tubing first run inside Sch 40 pvc pipes.Tthis way I do not have to try and crawl thru the basement storage areas which I think would be necessary.
JohnH
John,
I have made a couple of HDMI runs down the middle and it's not a lot of fun. I had a rodent eat the first one after a couple of months so had to run a second. Climbing around in the front suspension is also difficult getting the wires from the front cockpit back to the compartments. I used a welding rod electrical taped to the HDMI connector.
I like your schedule 40 idea. You can blow one of the little wax thread thimbles through and then just easily pull the hose. Might be easier than trying to push the hose through.
Pierce
I myself wouldn't run anything under the coach. Way too exposed for me. Sure would be less difficult to run stuff but a lot more chance to get damaged.
Just my opinion.
Richard B
Richard, the fuel line would be inside the pipe then that is inside a 'channel' of aluminum which is bolted to underbelly. I already have a plastic pipe under there for some wires and it has never been touched. The P O did it for the new rear view cam and I guess he did not know about the wires already in ceiling runs. Anyway it has proved that in more than 60k miles it has not caused any problems.
I am the kind of person that would make sure it is safe and sound. Easy to install with the pit.
John H
So Is the clear filter replaced like a cartridge or are there seals or the entire filter? I would like to have what is needed before i start taking anything apart. What is the clear filter doing? Is it before or after the Racor? What is the manufacture of the clear filter?
That is a 300200 racor filter. It comes with new o rings
philtravel,
If you do have the Racor 300200 here is a thread that gives part numbers and where you can get them from ISM11 Clear glass fuel filter change/clean (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14624.msg85823#msg85823) You can do a search and find some others this one just had the most info in one spot.
Pamela & Mike
The clear filter allows you to give a quick look for water in your fuel. There is a drain on the last one I had.
I hear ya John. I guess if I already had a tract running the length of the coach I'd do the same.
Richard B
I don't mean to go way out of the box here but if my coach is low on coolant it will shut off or go into limp mode shorty after starting. Seems like that's not what's happening here but thought id throw it out there..
So is this the recommended replacement for what I have now? Racor RK12963 Retrofit Kit (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/racor_rk12963_retrofit_kit.html)
This is what I have now
Wich one of these is the model #? How many GPM?
http://www.bollandmachine.com/resources/Products/Parker-Racor/Stationary/7631-Rev-C-700-Series-FFWS-Integrated-Priming-Jan-2008.pdf (http://www.bollandmachine.com/resources/Products/Parker-Racor/Stationary/7631-Rev-C-700-Series-FFWS-Integrated-Priming-Jan-2008.pdf)
I am thinking this is the one?
[790R30]Parker Racor INTEGRATED ASSEMBLY - 90 GPH (http://www.nationalfleetparts.com/790R30-Parker-Racor-INTEGRATED-ASSEMBLY-90-GPH.html)
Just a bump. I want to order the Racor filter just looking for a little input on my last post.
Thanks, Phil
Yes, the DDEC will shut it down but you will also see a "shut down" light on the dash; with a fuel issue you won't.
I had a coolant leak and I got the shut down stop engine light. It was not fuel related.
I replaced my system a few months ago to avoid this problem. I posted pics on Aug 24 2013 of the before and after.
Phil,
Below is information for your use:
http://www.cumminspartsdirect.com/topic/733-cummins-oil-and-fuel-filters.aspx?gclid=CJ294Pfamb0CFRQaOgodLhMAWA (http://www.cumminspartsdirect.com/topic/733-cummins-oil-and-fuel-filters.aspx?gclid=CJ294Pfamb0CFRQaOgodLhMAWA)
There is also a phone number at the bottom of that page: 1 (855) 470-3525
With this information you should be able to get all filter specs for your Foretravel. It's a good idea to jot down your engine serial number before calling.
Peter,
I Would steer clear of this after market supplier, they are not providing Cummins Fleetguard filters, without a clearly marked non fuzzy pix, I would rather go for the NAPA / Wix, at least they have a fairly good reputation. PREFER Fleetguard by far.
Besides, their pricing is for folks who have no clue.
FWIW or MO
Dave M
You're right Dave. I thought this was the official Cummins web site. This is the right number for Cummins Filtration.
For Customer Assistance, contact 1-800-DIESELS(1-800-343-7357)
My x Foretravel dealer mechanic recommended that one for my 97. Its on its way from the same people
Thanks for all the input. I have ordered the Racor 790R30 to replace the existing setup. I am hopeful this will get me through for a while till I can schedule fuel line replacement . Although I don't see any sign of deterioration on the lines at this time from the limited areas I can see.
Rather than scheduling a fuel line replacement that you may or may not need, try low AIR pressure on the fuel lines and then using a spray bottle with soap bubble solution, check for bubbles. Will be easy to see them. Most likely at the inlet/outlet at the fuel tank. It will only take a couple of PSI as very much could damage the tank. Fuel lines will need to be purged of fuel. This will also check on the lines to the generator.
Pierce
Pierce,
Great suggestion for troubleshooting air in the fuel lines. Where and how would you apply the air pressure?
Thanks,
Jerry aka Murph
Jerry,
The hoses in our rigs are probably good for the duration but you never know who the supplier was as they are not all equal and a batch without the correct specs won't be as resistive to diesel and any additives. As a kid, I worked for a big car dealer with a lot of different car brands. American Motors had such bad rubber hoses that even the vacuum hoses were lucky to make it a year. That and cracked exhaust manifolds. No wonder they went out of business.
So, you would need to disconnect the return line at the engine. With the tank cap off, you could take a air gun at low pressure and blow out the fuel in the line. The return line most likely terminates high in the tank.
The feed line from the tank could be done the same way starting at the back and blowing the fuel back into the tank.
A small air compressor with a Harbor Freight air regulator set to 2-4 psi would supply the air. With the filler cap back on the tank, air could be supplied to the feed line at the back and once the pressure was at the above psi, you could spray the bubble solution on the lines close to the fittings and do the feed and return lines at the same time. The generator could be done the same way. Just a little planning would be necessary with a couple of adapters to connect to the lines. Our fuel tanks will build pressure while driving so this would work well. Others may have a vent on the tank that would have to be covered or shut off. Could be hard to get to.
Sort of like finding a leak in the HWH lines or air bags but with much less pressure. Bubble solution is great stuff and the bubbles last a long time so leaks are easy to spot.
Plenty of other spots for air to find it's way into the system. Filter "O" rings are famous for introducing air on certain models/brands.
Ford 6.9-7.3 diesels had a filter assembly mounted on the engine that caused a lot of trouble. Besides the filter, it had a fuel heater and a couple of sensors mounted as well as badly designed drain so lots of opportunities for air leaks and leak they did. When I installed a 7.3 in a Southwind, I round canned the whole assembly and just mounted a remote spin on filter up in the nose.
Pierce
Pierce,
Thanks for the procedure. Something to try that may show a leak at a connection before replacing the whole hose. I don't have any problems now, but I can file this in my memory bank for future reference. :)
Will it be necessary to reverse the procedure before reconnecting the fuel lines to bleed the air out of the them?
Jerry aka Murph
Jerry,
Once the lines are connected again, you can loosen the big spin-on (mounted on the engine, driver's side) fuel filter a turn or so, put a gallon plastic bag around it to catch any spill and then use the frame mounted hand fuel pump to bring fuel from the tank to the filter. When bubbles stop coming out, tighten it, pump for another minute or so and then you are ready to start.
I mounted a 0-15 psi gauge on top of the primary filter so I can tell the pressure is building when I pump. Easy installation with the gauge just replacing a threaded plug. I then mounted another higher pressure gauge on the outlet of the secondary filter mounted on the engine. It has to be for 60 psi or more as the Detroit fuel pump gives the system about 30 psi at idle and 55 psi at higher RPM. It is a little more work as an fitting has to be added. See attached photo with the Detroit idling.
The gauge in the attached photo will tell if there is any restriction like clogged fuel filters.
If the hand pump does not work, pull it off and replace the "O" rings. About $0.10 at NAPA. If O rings are broken and the nut not sealing the shaft, air can also get in the system so good to check. With the low pressure gauge, you can tell the condition immediately. Pumps easily at first, then a little harder and then quite a bit harder with the pressure about 9-12 psi.
Pierce