It seems that during paint it would be much less labor intensive to update the Windows and Front and rear lighting.
I have seen pricing of around 17 k for paint. Has anyone added the side window replacement and Headlight , tail light upgrade?
What would one expect to pay if the upgrades are done at the time of Painting?
Also the Creation windows on the passenger side of our coach have dual pane that have the edge seal slipping toward the center of the glass. What are some thoughts on repairing versus replacing? And Brand thoughts as well.
Thanks in advance for the feedback.
Chuck
Chuck,
Search on "Window Seal" in all topics and there are a number of posts on your seal problem. Contact Xtreme Paint & Graphics in Nacogdoches and they will give you all the info on paint and conversion work. My coach was their old show coach so I have every one of their paint and conversion options.
Xtreme Paint & Graphics (http://www.xtremegraphics.net/)
Keith
Thanks Keith
Dave and Nancy Katsuki did just what you asked about, last year at Etreme. Full body paint, new windows, and made a nice change on the dinette window. They chose a picture window instead of an operable where they have their custom longways desk for two.
Ah, that explains why I always do a double take on your year. I always think it is a 2000's era, and can't believe it is really a '95.
I love your coach!
The credit for the work goes to James and crew at Xtreme. The fact that it was so immaculate when I purchased it is due to the great care the previous owners Jeff and Carol took of it.
Keith
I would place not repair the windows. The repairs do not seem to last as long. The headlight upgrade and the fog lights is great. I would call xtreme and get a quote.
Have had most of the mods done by Xtreme, Lights, Full Paint including roof, etc, the one I enjoy the most is the rear tail gate door, it makes the opening soo much easier, safer & less stressful. Yes the head light mod is wonderful. Having all new window / door gasketing / sealed up, no longer have the air noise at drivers seat, always sounded like the window was not 100% closed. Forgot to add, to remove the lower panel, just (2) 1/4" cap screws and easy remove to service the air filter. What ever Xtreme does will make you happy.
Dave M
Thanks for all the feed back, we have decided to go with the replacement of the Windows. haven't seen much feedback regarding FOT doing the FBP and headlamp conversion. Is there a reason for this?
FWIW, I had an estimate done but did not pull the trigger at FOT. I think they gave me a pretty good price and it seems less than what the going rate is now at Xtreme. I think that they were just not as busy as they would have liked to be at that time. I have heard that their work is good but there seems to be a slight preference for Xtreme on the forum. I did not do it as it just was not worth the investment (for me) at the time. If I full timed, I probably would have done it. Right now mine is all white (sans decals that were fading/cracking). I may still do this at a later date. I would probably get both to give you a price. I think you would be happy with either.
I had called Xtreme and got quotes and decided to go with Foretravel. They said they will have it ready for the Rally May 1 in Kerrville. It seems the prices are about the same and I like the idea of a factory job. We plan to enjoy the coach for a long time.
thanks for all the feedback.
Hopefully meet some of yall in Kerrville.
Cheers
Good Luck and hope you enjoy the upgrade.
You might want to P Dave Metzger, he has had work done at both places. Xtreme is scheduled way out for a reason, but FOT work is nice as well.
Both places get great looking results, but when it comes to fiberglass work at least, I believe that Xtreme (i.e., Rance) goes the extra mile in making the repairs or mods better than new. I talked to Rance extensively during our headlight/step upgrades, and there were some (to me anyway) significant differences in the way the new front facades are incorporated into the coach front cap. They add quite a bit of fiberglass matt (the diagonal weave matt) and resin to the back side of the seam. I could be wrong (I haven't personally examined any of FOT's upgrades), but according to my information FOT doesn't take the same pains in the finished product. Anyway, I couldn't be happier with the results we got on our coach...
Don
Our coach plans to be in NAC March 24-April 4. We plan to be with it a lot of that time. First to FOT for service, then to Xtreme for fiberglass repairs and headlight changes. Rance has repaired several "insults" to the fiberglass on our coach. We like the friendly atmosphere at Xtreme. I got a great tour of the design room on our first trip there.
We'll be doing an unusual headlight change compared to most. I have chosen to install 7" round LED headlights. We'll see if it looks weird or good. Based on reviews and reports, I expect the headlights the function well.
We also plan to be at the Kerrville rally May 1-4. We received a call from Shirley Day to see if Marilyn would lead a few group songs for the event. If all goes well, the "lead singer" will be arriving at the rally in the coach with the "different" headlights.
Chuck, for the record Xtreme owner James Stallings started the paint shop at FT and painted most of the early coaches. That said the preference is that James gas an apartment to stay in and makes it much easier. Also I think he does a slightly better job. The factory will do ok too.
There is another (potential) variable. (I don't know if it is still true today)
No one is mentioning the difference in the quality of the paint that James uses as opposed to the quality of the FOT paint. The material qualities (and costs) were not the same in 2009/2010.
That was a significant issue when we had our decals removed and painting done in January 2010.
Short term, probably no big deal. Long term, there is a reason that those early full body paints (that James did) look perfect today, but some AJ (After James) FOT jobs - not so much. Absent the higher quality paint, they are not nearly as durable. Much of that is due to the unyielding high material standards that James had set and was adhering to. I don't know, but I doubt that the differential has changed much, today.
At the time, James explained the quality differences in great detail to me and I independently researched it as well. FOT was not convincing in their defense. The real clincher, though, was in close inspection of the Wolfkill's (and two other early James FBP) coaches that happened to be in Nacogdoches at that particular time and some AJ (after James) coaches sitting on the "lots" at FOT and MOT. The quality and longevity differences were easy to see, once I'd been through the James -- "Paint Quality 101 Tutorial".
To each his own. The quality differences are way beyond my depth to explain, today, but if they still exist, they are well worth understanding before you plunk down "equal money" at one place or the other.
Neal
I didn't have my windows replaced when Xtreme did my FBP. Yes, I've regretted it, but after the headlight conversion, electric step, roof paint, LED clearance lights, that extra money just wasn't in the budget. You save $200 per window as I recall. I have 11 windows. But the average cost of the windows was more than $500. Subsequently I had all my windows rebuilt By the outfit north of Tampa for a total cost of $2,000. No, they don't replace the seals that aren't part of the glass assemblies. Some windows are harder to open than they were. It all comes down to the money, IMO.
Agreed, we were tossing around the $$ issue for new windows versus window repair and we decided to go replacement based on the fact that we plan to use the coach for a good long while. Our current windows just do not slide easily and the felt seems to have broken down, oddly only on the passenger side. :)
Was parked with sun on that side, and shade where no "snakes"
We had the outside of our rig "remanufactured" at Xtreme, and have been totally pleased with the result. The new windows from Peninsula are much easier to open, don't leak air, and no more snakes! The Xtreme paint job and body upgrades were pretty close to flawless, and the experience at Xtreme was wonderful. We stayed in their apartment while our coach was being worked on and could go into the shop and watch what they were doing at any time, and ask questions of any staff members. James and Jennifer and their staff are really wonderful, and as has been mentioned, Rance is a wizard with fiberglass. We would do it again in a heartbeat.
Have been reading about the paint issues . We all agree that both shops do great work . Now about the paint quality . Both shops use paint made by (BASF) . Extreme uses (Glasurit) , which is very good , but it is of an older technology . FOT uses (Diamont) , a much newer technology . To say one is better than the other is being judgmental by not have all the facts like , which one sat in the sun the longest etc etc . Not trying to come at you as a paint expert anyway shape or form . But my phone still works and you see the results . I have my preference but I am not try sell anything . Brad Metzger
Country coach and beaver both used sikkens paint long ago...
We have used both places to have work done.
Xtreme did our step conversion and roof paint and touched up a few spots if ya know what I mean. FOT did our headlight and taillight conversions. I don't have a bad thing to say about the work done at either place. If you have questions about how things are done at either, go talk to them, I've found them both accessible and very willing to share what they use and what they do. Xtreme being a smaller shop does provide for more access to the paint shop from my experience.
We have original FOT paint, Xtreme paint, and new FOT paint (maybe even two generations of it), bit of a patchwork, and I can't visually tell any difference after several years of wear FWIW. Perhaps a few more years of sun and pine sap will be needed :D
I don't think you are going to find a zOMG hugh quality delta between the two (at least currently), so a lot of the choice comes down to comfort, price, availability, features, kind of like shopping for a new TV and both have a 4.5 star rating ( sorry I don't give 5 stars, I always want to leave room for higher expectations :P )
Hi Steve, Thanks for that insight. I like the "leave room for higher expectations" it reminds me of the "We are number 2, we try harder!" statement we used to hear in the 70's.
I have always been happy with the way they treat us at FOT and I have spoken on the phone to xTreme several times. They are always nice and helpful as well. That said, we left our coach at FOT and they are doing the updates.
Looking forward to a "New To Us" coach for the Kerrville Rally.
Thanks to everyone that shared some feedback regarding there experiences.
Cheers,
Chuck
Just exactly what do you mean? Did you have snakes getting into the coach?
Think maybe he was talking about the black between the glass things that seem to walk up into the viewing area of the windows. Or at least that is what I call them as well.
Right! The "snakes" are the dividers between panes in the old Creation windows, and after a long while they start to migrate away from the edges. You can get them repaired, but the Creation windows still are hard to open (maybe because of their age...?)