I see a number of 40+ foot tag axle FT's with lifting tag axles and then see some of the same year without the lifting system. What are the advantages or disadvantages of the lifting system? I assume the turn radius is controlled by the drive axle so does the tag axle lift too reduce tire wear? When does the tag axle raise and how is it controlled.
Thanks for helping me with these questions but I guess I better ask before I own a FT later this year.
With the lifting tag you will scuff a bit less, especially on grass where you tear it up a bit. Mine do not lift but takes the pressure off and works fine but a lifting tag might be easier and a bite tater. Not a deal breaker either way.
You are going to run into personal choices and each with a reason . The first coach I owned with a tag was a 2003 , 38 ft model 320 It had a lifting tag . My second coach with a tag was a 40 ft 2006 Phenix , it had a dump tag . The problem that I didn't like about it was , when dumped and you put on the brakes , even slightly the tag would drag (lock up)making small flat spots on both tires . If your at FOT , CG , watch the coaches pulling up to the dump station ,and you'll see how those black marks got there After a few years or so you feel the little thumps while going down a smooth road . My present coach has a lifting tag . My next coach will have a lifting tag . A dumping tag will turn sharper than one without it . A lifting tag will turn a bit sharper only because there is no resistance from dragging the tag sideways. It lifts or dumps by pressing a button on the HWH control board. Brad Metzger
I have a dump tag and have never noticed any flat spotting. Maybe I'm just gentle on the brakes when the tag is dumped.
I only notice on grass and gravel that touching the brakes or turning will cause a pile up of gravel or might rio up some grass. The drives usually push it down when going backwards. Not flat spotting though.
It is true that I am not all that gentle in all respects with our coach . What got this thing going was While walking my hounds at FOT , CG by the dumpster , an IH rolled up to the dump station , tag locked solid leaving about 15 feet of black marks from both sides . I started looking for this , and sure enough the next IH ----same thing . On my 2006 Phenix , it came with Good Year tires .They were problems from day one . Would not stay round and had to have them trued about every 10,000 miles . This is when I started noticing the little flat spots as they were pointed out to me by the tech that was doing the work . This is not a deal breaker issue for everyone , just a personal choice . As I said before , for me , they got to lift . Brad Metzger
My ex-Bluebird had a dump tag, which I once dumped while driving through my tight neighborhood streets. There's a fairly steep downhill involved and although I couldn't hear it skid, the tags left a black stripe 200 feet long down that hill.
Dumping or lifting the tag makes me nervous unless there is a very good warning system reminding you that it's dumped (or an automatic system). If you forget, you've got a serious overload on the drive tires when you jump back on the interstate.
Mine has a bell and the level light comes on. If I go too fast it drops.
While test driving new IH's with Tyle Fore, I asked about dumping tags vs lifting. The IH's we test drove and are/have been looking at all have dumping tags. I asked the reason and Tyle said due to weight that they can't put a lifting tag on. Something about too much stress on the drive axle when the tag is lifted. Or something to that affect.
I was able to turn donuts with a 45' IH, tag dumped in front of the laundry room at CampFT... but that was due to the IFS...
For some reason the post by email system failed when attempting to post this message, I've re-posted it below.
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What the powers to be here at FOT say , --the tag will automatically self deploy down once the speed of 13 MPH is reached . That is how my coach works every time . I only lift it when making tight turns as in parking lots etc . Mine clears the ground by about 8 inches , some coaches a lot less . Have wondered if they would be adjustable or are they pre set and will be that way . Brad Metzger
I watched a IH back up in a fairly tight turning radius. I don't think it had the tag dumped, and the severity of the tag tire deflection and the induced temporary wheel camber due to being pushed sideways was disturbing.
I also see this and cringe . Not only are the tires getting their but kicked but , how about the bearings at the pivot point on that tag .I know on a failure on a 2011 Phenix , where the tag arm had to be replaced .I notice the shop techs do not lift the tags when moving coaches in and out of the shop . :o Why ? Brad Metzger
Interesting question. I know mine dolts but the stresses on the heavy tires loads are huge without it. So if the IH is too heavy then I bet you will get flat spots.
They do make steerable tag axles. I've seen them on heavy buses and Country Coach put one on it's ill fated Rhapsody. No doubt more weight and cost.
I ask a few more questions about this issue . Reason # 1 for dump only on the IH -----money . It costs a lot more to lift . Of course you should not run around with the tag up in the air but -----the weight is an issue if you do that , but you can't do it if you wanted to . ??? ??? ??? Brad Metzger
Steering tag axles---- yep , they have been around for lots of years but on dump trucks . This is where the need existed that called for help first . Of course you can put them on all sorts of vehicles , the need and cost will be the big decider on this issue . Brad Metzger
With the tag axle down the swivel point is between the drive and tag axles, therefore you will scrub the tag axle tires on a tight turn. With the tag lifted the swivel point is the center of the drive axle which makes for a smaller turn radius and no tire scrubbing. Lifting the tag axle should be for slow maneuvering of the coach. I doesn't seem to me that for the short period you are in a tight maneuvering situation that weight on the drives should be overly significant, at last not on a coach. When I was driving big rigs I picked up a spread axle dry box and had a devil of a time backing the thing into a hole until I figured out the pivot point was an imaginary line between the two axle centers.
Roland
Newell has the steering tag. It cost about 35 k for it. I will just lift but I was on an MCI bus with one in a city and wow could he make turns I know I could never make.
This one subject that I feel I need to comment on. First of all,,John,you provide valuable input to this forum and I enjoy reading your posts so please forgive me when I proceed to disagree.
Brad explained things very well. There was no lift option on the early tag axles. (98-02). I thought from 03 on, that all tags would lift but my knowledge of the 05 and newer coaches is limited.When Brad said that his 06 Phenix came with a dump only tag, I was surprised and learned something.
This is MY opinion,,,A dump only tag system is a very useless option. When you have a big diesel engine and and Allison transmission,, you cannot negotiate tight turns without riding the brakes.With no pressure on the tires, they slide and slide and slide. Leaving skid marks everywhere the tires touch and, flat spots on the tires. On my 2000 42' I see very little ( if any ) difference in turn radius with tag dumped or not. When you have a dump only system, it is best to never dump when on hard surface.
When we bought the 2000, we visited some friends in Key West. Our friends had a narrow gate and not much swing room . Later,after setting up, we meet some of the neighbors and they were very upset and vocal about the skid marks in the street and ours friends were silent but embarrassed. When I think back, if I had left the pressure on the tag, the tires would still have left some tracking marks so getting the tires completely off the ground is the best solution.
I have converted the coach to a lifting tag and would never go back to a dump only system.
Gary O
So if there are flat spots then you should see black on the concrete. I do not see that much from the tag. It could be hidden in the drive tires which sometimes leave a mark. I will say in normal driving I wear out my tag before I have to change them for time.