Installed a rebuilt Haldex Pure Air air dryer. The NAPA rebuilt unit came with the relief valve and a new heater. It looked brand new in a Haldex box.
Tips:
Drain the air from all three tanks.
Remove the air lines first as you will need the unit to be stable to break loose the fittings.
You will need a inch and half wrench for the large lines.
Remove all of the fittings before you turn it in for exchange, you will need them.
Take note of the position of the fittings; point up, point to the rear, etc. This will make re-attaching the air lines much easier. I learned this the hard way.
$283 plus exchange out the door @ NAPA
I have rebuilt mine each time-around $170 from Amazon for parts. If I need to mark hoses, wires etc I usually put a coloured ty wrap on each one or take a few photos in high resolution.
JohnH
I had my air dryer serviced at FOT. Does a "rebuilt" include more than a "service" or are they the same thing? FOT recommended that it be "serviced" each year.
Larry
That relief valve can be a nightmare to try to replace if you are doing a rebuild service yourself. It's notorious for snapping off during removal (we've been there, and it finally took a machine shop and a torch and several tries to remove the remnants from the air dryer). Big fan of using the reman'd unit from NAPA and a thank you to the forum for letting us know of its availability a few years back.
A rebuilt air dryer will include more new bits than "air dryer service".
Many places just replace the desiccant cartridge and coalescing filter and call that "service" (the minor kit that's used for "service", Haldex DQ6026, costs about $140 and includes cartridge, filter, and the relief valve, although not all shops swap out the relief valve - see my earlier post on its "challenges").
A DIY rebuild uses both minor and major service kits (major runs about $100, IIRC, don't remember what's in it, I think just some seals). For the price of the minor plus major, you can get a reman'd unit that looks brand new, has all the guts replaced that are part of those kits, plus the heater, and was rebuilt at the factory. And it takes much less time to replace than to do the rebuilt so there's some labor savings there. There's usually a $99 core charge at NAPA that you get back when you return the old air dryer so the $280 or so is net cost after you get that back.
I rebuilt mine last year and it was surprisingly easy and inexpensive. My relief valve came off very easily. I think it depends on the condition of the drier and the environment it has been in over the years. I don't think I would ever buy a rebuilt one due to my budget and ease of service. I suppose there could be some corrosion issues in the base of the unit that would warrant a replacement. That is my experience anyways.
Mark
I always do the major service (both kits- complete with heater) and never had a problem removing any part. It is a bit of a pain putting the little rubber seat under coalesing filter but not a problem. I had my first one serviced at FOT and the main check valve was put in reverse so had a major leak for 2 yrs till I did the next one. I like to do what I can so at least I know it is right. Time is on my side, and I refuse to pay for something I can do even if it does sometimes take longer than the pro's.
Right now I am working/learning on a Dometic roof air to see if we can fix a problem on friends C Coach magna that C World said could not be changed and to replace with new unit $1600. It's all fun when learning!!
JohnH
Yes, $283 was the final bill w/tax. I took my old one with me when I picked up the new one.
As I have been having to do a lot of the maintenance that has been neglected on this coach, I decided to go the re-manufactured route. Now I know for sure what I got.
Don't forget to change the seals in the elbow(where the air come out of the dryer to the wet tank), they were not included in the overhaul kits I got from Foretravel.
It takes special (dark red o rings).
I think you can buy that fitting with the valve for about $80.
OK got the dreaded white powder out of the drain behind the driver's rear wheel. Unscrewed the canister and there was white powder there too. Have read numerous threads about this situation and we will be replacing the dryer with a rebuilt one. I replaced the canister about a year ago and do not know when/if the air dryer has ever been serviced. Should I order the AD-9 replacement for our 2002 M11? :D
DA33100X should be the reman'd Haldex Pure Air Plus. Check posts by Jim McNeece for info.
I don' t understand when I read that if no white powder or water is noticed when venting, the wet tank drain valve located near the street side rear tire, the air dryer filter is ok and does not need to be changed.
Not long ago a Forum poster made such a statement probably emphasizing filters are being changed too early.
When there is white powder, it is way too late as the white power is all through the air system already.
Dryer filters need to be changed on a reasonable schedule and can be self-replaced if desired. (Drain air, unscrew, lift out, replace)
Scott & Carol,
There are several postings on Barry and Darlene Brideau's Personal Website (http://www.beamalarm.com) and your Foretravel Forum on buying a remanufactured air dryer. I looked for our posting on both sites but could not find it. We purchased reman dryer from NAPA. I am pretty sure the AD-9 looks a lot different than yours and is for older Foretravels. Take photos of yours and check them against websites for purchasing.
Thanks Michelle for the Part Number and will check Jim McNeece's posts.
Just to clarify - I changed out the cartridge about a year ago. At that time no water, white powder or sludge.
I have reviewed many documents on Beamalarm and many threads here as well and am feeling the pain of what others have experienced regarding this white powder - air dryer situation. We also understand what we may have do to eliminate the desiccant powder from the entire air system. As we do not have any powder, that I can see, around the forward air manifold I am hopeful that the prompt replacement will do the job and not gum up the solenoids.
Before we left Washington state, about 2300 miles ago, I checked the air tank in front of the rear wheel on the driver's side and no water / no white powder.
Scott,
If I were replacing/thinking about rebuilding a Bendix AD 9, I think I would upgrade to a Bendix AD-IP. Easier to service and a direct replacement in terms of connections.
As always, if you do decide to rebuild or buy a reman unit, I STRONGLY suggest only parts from your OE supplier. Air brakes and suspension are not a place to buy knockoff parts!
And when you do find desiccant powder in the wet tank, take the time to flush and blow out the tank and lines.
Like any other maintenance item, air dryers need periodic service and are likely one of the most neglected items on a DP.
What are we to do to prevent the white power syndrome? Anyone with ideas? Wonder what causes the desicant to leak out of canister.
Sorry you ran into the problem after doing proper maintenance.
Only solution I know of to prevent desiccant from coming loose and getting in the air system is to service them every three years or so (unless you drive a lot of miles).
Said another way, I don't recall hearing about a dryer/desiccant failure in a dryer that had been serviced regularly.
I can't say I did proper maintenance - I just changed the canister.
Brett - Any benefit in purchasing a rebuilt unit other than cost. How can one assure that it has been rebuilt with oem parts? How much should a Cummins shop charge to clean the lines?
Scott the best way to know is do it yourself.
parts are readily available and if you have a spare 3 hrs you will have it off and done if your first time.. Regular tools is all it takes.
On cleaning out the tank it really needs to be removed I would say, but first I would take off the check valve and the protection valve apart and see if any white stuff there. If not you should not need to worry. I am sure Brett will correct me if wrong.
JohnH
Brett- Would this one work? Amazon.com: New 065612 Air Dryer, Replaces Bendix AD-IP 109477X Truck Air Dryer: (http://www.amazon.com/065612-Dryer-Replaces-Bendix-109477X/dp/B0089XJBE6)
Title says it "replaces" a genuine Bendix dryer. So, suspect it is a knock-off. But, I am not a parts man. Be careful out there. I like Chinese food. Not sure I would trust my brakes and suspension to Chinese "almost as good" parts.
Scott,
Are you sure you have a Bendix AD-9? Our '03 has a Haldex Pure Air Plus. Might the PO have installed the AD-9 in place of a Pure Air Plus? My limited documentation appears to indicate FT used the Pure Air Plus since build numbers in the mid 4000's...
The advantages of buying a remanufactured unit from a place like NAPA IF you purchase the official remanufactured p/n unit is that they are reman'd by the factory, a known quantity, using factory parts. You will get an air dryer that looks for all intensive purposes to be brand new, except maybe for the mounting bracket.
Michelle - No I am not sure which air dryer is installed. Our build # is 5954 so it would appear to fall into the Pure Air Plus series. As I am just delving into this function of our Ol Girl and after reading many threads, confusion took hold and with confusion clarity is required - hence the question. ;D
The air dryer is buried behind a mounting plate so I can not see any part numbers - ARGH.
I doubt that the PO had replaced the unit. As I get to know our coach better, with each event, I am getting a pretty good feeling on how he maintained this piece of machinery. Some good - some not so good.
As usual thanks so much for your attention and knowledge.
Brett - Thanks for your input and reminder - so much is built in China these days and who knows to what specifications the parts were built to. It is my experience with Chinese built products is that they will build to the specs that are given to them. Hence - shoddy or unclear specs cause shoddy or unclear performance.
Scott,
Take and post a photo. The Bendix looks very different from the Pure Air Plus. Here's a site with some photos:
Air Dryers - AnythingTruck.com, Truck & Trailer Parts and Accessories Warehouse (http://www.anythingtruck.com/category/htp-brake-air-dryers.html)
I would bet you have the Pure Air Plus. If you buy a reman DA33100X from NAPA, you'll need to take the hose connection fittings and 12V connection for the heater off the current unit to install the replacement (a great excuse to buy big wrenches ;) ). There doesn't seem to be a time limit to return the old unit to NAPA to get your core charge back so you don't need to bring it with you to get the replacement; they just hold your $99 or so core charge until you do (but they do like if you return the shipping box to them).
And, the advice is the same, whether Bendix or Haldex (or other). Rebuild with OE factory parts, factory reman or new from factory.
+1
This is a maintenance item. Replace on the recommended schedule BEFORE there is a problem. Just like oil, fuel, transmission, hydraulic, and cooling system filters (and many other things). Maintenance is much cheaper in the long run than repair costs of an unmaintained system.
I had just ordered a replacement desccant filter cartridge kit from Findit parts. The Part # is: 201160-C which is DQ6036 and belongs to the Haldex Pure Air Plus. Guess I will return the kit.
Will look into replacing the Haldex Pure Air Plus with OEM stuff.
Scott,
My coach is a 2002 U320 #5957 and uses the Haldex Pure Air Plus with major Repair kit DQ6020. I'd bet our coach uses the same.
Any one know what specific air dryer failure causes the desiccant powder to disperse through the system?
The only one I could think of would be a breakdown of the materials holding it in place. Obviously from total lack of service for many years and the interaction of "stuff" coming from compressor.
Brett W may have a better understanding.
JohnH
What I believe causes WHITE powder in an air system is that the air dryer is not serviced and moisture builds til the desiccant cannot handle it ( or heater is failed ) desiccant then hardens and repeated cycling forces it as a powder powder into the system. There is or should be a filter but with age it breaks down also. Servicing an air dryer is simple EXCEPT for reaching it in some coaches where it is positioned.
REBUILDING an air dryer also is not hard, IF you can reach it or you can remove it from the frame.
Gary B
What is confusing to me is that I replaced the desiccant cartridge about 1 year ago. The service/replace interval shows: "Service as Required or every 400,000 miles" so - either the canister was defective or some thing else caused the powder to disperse.
If the heater caused the problem - How can I test the heater in the air dryer?
Found the test procedure on Beamalarm. Thanks Barry.
Guess I'll have to check for power to the heater. Down loaded the "Haldex Pure Air Plus Trouble Shooting Guide". Will work on it in the next day or two.
Thanks again. :D
I think non or little use as is in our case does not contribute to long air dryer life. I don'remember servicing my air dryer in my Pete and never had a problem with it. Was putting over 102K miles a year through all kinds of weather. Never had a problem with the dryer.
Roland
Just to let you know I purchased a rebuild kit for my air-dryer from Foretravel some time back (05/2013). After installing the new kit (07/2013) and the new desiccant cartridge I noticed the engine air compressor was cycling on and off more frequently and the pressure gauges in both tanks were bleeding off faster. I checked and rechecked the installation and everything checked OK. I was seeing white powder when I purged the air tanks. It was only when I removed the canister that I saw the problem. The new desiccant cartridge failed and scattered white powder through out the system. I called Foretravel and they stated they had never heard of a new desiccant cartridge failing. I also called Haldex to inquire if they had any trouble with cartridges failing. Don't expect any help from Haldex as their products don't fail. Well sometimes they do and I had one. I have been told there have been new desiccant cartridge failures experienced by other non Foretravel motor-coach owners. I think there may have been a bad production lot and the factory is covering it up. I kept that cartridge for a long time but then needed the room and tossed it. Now I wished I had kept it. I replaced the whole drier unit with one from NAPPA. After a lot of work and new check valves I no longer have that problem. I will buy a complete unit from NAPPA to replace the one I have now. It is a little more expensive but less hassle. And yes, it is still possible for the rebuilt unit or even a new unit to fail.
It can take as long time for powder in the wet tank (and all others) to work out of your system. Flushing the wet tank is probably the best way to stop the contamination, - I should have done that. Check vales seem to be the most affected. I still are seeing just a little white power from all the tank drains, 2 years after replacing the dryer\ with a full rebuild kit.
Yes it takes a lot of work to fix this problem. I have went through my air system 3 times, blowing out the air lines, cleaning the check valves, rebuilding the six packs, etc. I just recently replaced the old check valves with new ones. I haven't seen any more powder so I suspect any powder left in the system has stablized. The coach now holds pressure like it use to. If I had this happen again I would flush or replace the tanks.
After much reading on this fofum as well as on Beamalarm we:
Replaced the Air Dryer today with a reman. Haldex from NAPA. PN DA33100X. We changed out Bill B's last week and did ours today. The Air dryer was on sale and we also took advantage of a 30% off coupon. Thanks to Bill B for that. Netted out at about $180.00 Did not flush the tanks. Saw just a bit of white powder when draining the rear wet tank. None in the front tanks. Also had a slight coating on the exhaust elbow from the dryer. Hopefully the contamination has had limited negative impact on the system.
The removal of the old dryer and the install of the rebuilt one was not difficult - however - there is always one bolt........ Cut over one hour from the removal and install time.
Went to a local steel warehouse and had them cut 8 pieces of 2" x .250" square tubing for frame support. Placed one by each air bag. Thanks to Bill again. The end cuts were not perfect but serve the purpose. The tubing was rusty as we did not buy Prime tubing. We wire brushed the rust off and painted the tubing with Rustoleum. $90.00+/-.
Glad it's done.
Again....I could not have been able to accomplish this task without the help of all of you. :P
Scott,
What length did you pick?
Trent
11"
Scott,
Sounds like a safe compromise. I was afraid all of my bags may not allow a 12" safety stand.
My belly may want that extra inch, but that's a whole 'nother story. :)
Trent
Where did you find the 30% coupon?
Thought I would share my experience as well... Originally I made eight 11" high 2"X2"X.250" square steel stands (which was the height that most on the forum reported using) and found that they could have been 12.5" high and still fit, though just barely. I missed that extra height under the coach so bad, I added 1.5" thick pieces of solid oak to the 11" stands while welding underneath the coach. Subsequently I bought four 12" long 2" hitch receiver tubes from Harbor freight (all they had in stock). They are made to receive 2" square hitches, so I put four of the original 11" ones inside the four HF hitch receiver tubes so they actually store in a smaller foot print. One of these days I will make four more 12" stands out of square tubing. I figure it is good to have that ½" clear with the air bags up because it can take a few tries to get up high enough to get all the stands in without having to air up again, especially if there are is any leak down at all. I also made four ramps for the rear and two for the front out of 2X10's. Three layers for 4.5" in the rear and two layers for 3" in the front.
Don
Edit: link added;
Class III 12 in. x 2 in. Standard Receiver Tube (http://www.harborfreight.com/class-iii-12-in-x-2-in-standard-receiver-tube-69879.html)
This is an ahaa moment. Never thought of ramps and stands. Much easier now to get under.
Bill B found the coupon and was nice enough to share it with me. I understand that all NAPA stores have a promotion that occurs once a month that offers 30% off for purchases made before 9 AM. I would suggest that you call your local store and ask them when the sale occurs.
Hey Don, I really like your ramps. Would you mind sharing the dimensions. Thanks, Ron
I took a ruler to the photo and appears they are approximately 42 inches long. Personally I would have made the top one a little shorter so that there would be more room on the middle board.
John,
I don't have them with me to measure, but here is a summary of what I think I remember. By the way, the chocks are 8" front to back and there is enough room on the top layer for the full foot print to be supported. Anyway, I believe that the overall length is 5' so that I could make two bottom layers out of one 10' 2X10. The second layer could be longer but was never intended to be a rest position as the intent was to get as much clearance underneath the coach, as opposed to being used as an aid for leveling. That said, the footprint of the tire is supported on the second layer while it is resting against the top layer (cut at a 45º angle).
I would have responded to this question with definitive measurements, but not having the ramps with me I can't say with certainty that my recollection is correct... but I know it is close. However, the exact dimensions are not that crucial and part of the reason I chose what I did was to minimize the cost by getting the most layers out of the fewest boards to buy. That said, the following is copied from a response (edited to be clearer... I hope) to a message from a member requesting info;
I counter sunk some 5/16" lag bolts of varying lengths depending on how many layers of 2X10's they were traversing. The ramps are not attached to each other. I did drill two holes in facing sides of the second layer of each dualie pair and used some ⅜" all thread with two nuts to act as spacers to match up with the duels. The holes were just sized to just allow the all thread to be inserted, but take a bit of persuasion. I used the cheapest green Douglas Fir lumber I could find in that size. To the best of my recollection, the longest layers are 5' and were made out of 2 2X10's ten feet long. The next layer is about 3', and the top about 2' with just enough room to screw on a wheel chock and still have the foot print of the tire fully supported on top.
Pressure treated lumber would likely be a more durable, but I thought it might have some detrimental effect on the tire rubber. Anyway, I went cheap! I hope that helps...
Don
Scott,
Any special tips on doing the dryer replacement?
I have a rebuilt dryer from NAPA and 8 safety stands.
Large size wrenches and I been spraying PB Blaster on the bolts this past week.
Which bolt was the difficult one?
Going to tackle the job on Thursday.
Thanks--Jim
Hi Jim-
As I recall the hardest was the 90deg. Attached to the dryer. We removed it after the dryer then removed the fittings. It took two of us - one to hold the dryer, the other with the large wrench with a breaker bar attached for leverage.
Give me a call if you want... 253-882-7120. We are in mountain time.
Scott
Thank You Scott.
Will call if/when I run into trouble :)
Jim