Hello Guys,
hope everybody had a great easter weekend.
I came across the below listing and just wanted some opinion on this coach. I kinda like it because it provides me all the comfort and quality of a fore travel in a shorter (33ft) package.
Apparently a one owner coach. How does one of those handle on the roads and would i still be able to pull a car behind it?
The asking price seems a little high for a gas though.
1988 Foretravel Grand Villa Motorhome (http://lakeland.craigslist.org/rvs/4417215595.html)
Looks clean to me and that probably explains the higher price. However, I would probably prefer to get a diesel. With only 70K miles probably has sat for a while. Though the tires supposedly are good, make sure to check the date of manufacture. I would expect to have to buy new tires and batteries. Thanks, CKS
That vintage gas coach has a pretty inefficient engine and transmission. Said another way, I suspect this coach would get poorer MPG than a 40' diesel coach.
Gasoline engine technology and transmission technology has come a LONG ways since 1988!
Stay far away from an Oshgosh rear engine gasser. Maybe 5 mpg, and super probe to engine problems due to heat. Rear radiator a pita.
Loved my 89 till 460 Ford blew. Should have tried harder to convert it to diesel.
Best to move on is my advice
This one is a front engine (see hump between driver and passenger seat and no grill in back). But I agree-- not in the same league with the diesel powered Foretravels.
Front engine in a 33' probably better than a 460 in a 36 foot rear engine.
But I would still pass and wait for a diesel in that or newer vintage
Actually that's a pretty reliable nice driving coach. I sold those new.
John Deere chassis with the 460 ford drove well. 6k capacity front straight axle setup like the dodge chassis. Evidenced by 25 years of one owner. Chevy no....
Oven, triangle large shower. Two furnaces. Queen bed, separate icemaker, look to see if it has a hwh leveler control system on the floor next to the drivers chair.
Desert paint was a pretty interior color
Subject to tires and batteries probably should be replaced I would own it no problem.
7-8 mpg?
For the money and the size and to join the club and factory support that's not a lot of money.....
If I were downsizing and it had tight sidewalls and no soft floor in the hallway and the motor scoped checked good and everything worked at turned I would drive off in it personally.
It's probably a very good coach. After all--it is a Foretravel!
However, having moved from a front-engine gasoline coach (built on a Dodge chassis with the 440-3 engine) to a 40 ft U320 (Cummins M-11 with 6-speed Allison) I can clearly state that there is no comparison. The U320's fuel mileage is better, the cruising (and hill climbing) performance is better, and the ride is better. In all cases the satisfaction levels with the two coaches are simply worlds apart.
I would highly recommend getting a diesel pusher Foretravel (preferably with a Cummins engine and the Allison World transmission).
Wishing price is too high. Figure 5-6 mpg. Had a gas SOB and it had a love affair with every gas station it went by.
Pierce
Beside being a front engine gasser, I really dont like the whippy overhand behind the rear axle. That short wheel base and the whip affect have always been un-settling to me. Have a great day ---- Fritz
We are really spoiled aren't we? What if you had $10k to spend? What would you buy?
I have driven and rv'ed in this exact model coach many times. Lots of happy owners of these.
What is the owners name?
I defer to Bob's experience. Nice that it was stored indoors, really makes a difference. 33' less to haul around for a gasser, not a bad entry coach, tire and battery dates critical, if ref rig hasn't been replaced, might cot you some money in near future, might not.
still think 5 - 5.5 MPG of bass is the worst part of the equation.
Looks nice in the pictures
For someone wanting to get into motorhome ownership for little money, it sure seems like this would be worth considering. Especially if that person only makes relatively short, local trips.
Another thought: what the heck kind of RV can you buy for $5-10k? You can't even get a well-used trailer for that amount, much less a motorized RV. Seems like it would be a good way to dip one's toes into the lifestyle with little downside risk.
You can afford a LOT of gas when you spend such a small amount on the coach.
Seven to eight mpg is what I remember. OREG was way different.
Love to walk through one again
There's an '89 on Ebay right now in that price range. Interior looks a bit neglected but nothing some elbow grease shouldn't fix.
FWIW,
I have already said I prefer the diesels. With that in mind, I did have some time ago a 1983 holiday rambler 33 foot 454 front engine gas motorhome. This was a Chevrolet chasis (different than the 460 ford but similar). I did not have any major issues with the engine trans or pretty much anything. I did have to change out the disc brakes, rotors, calipers, etc. That is pretty much it. Ran great. Got about 7-8 mpg. Had really plenty of power. I don't think you would have any trouble pulling a reasonable toad (not suburban). I towed a jeep cherokee. I really liked the size (am not a full timer), parts (for brakes) were cheap. It was also easy/cheap to maintain and other benefits. I can say I drove it pretty much where I wanted and did not have any real issues with it. There are reasons to consider this motorhome that make it worth looking at for the right person. My SOB front engine gasser was not a bad experience for me. So..., it really comes down to what you would like to spend and if it will do the job for you. I really like the motorhome (diesel u295) that I have and admit there are some things that I would really like to have different with that one. However, I am not willing to spend the money at this time as it pretty much does what I want it to do whenever I want it done. With that in mind, I think most of us have compromises to the ideal (and that "ideal" changes with time and experience). Best to you on whether you decide to pull the trigger on this one or not.
In this thread Caflashbob mentioned to look for a" soft floor in the hallway "of the FOG model being discussed. I have this model, in wonderful condition thanks to being garages it's entire life,
and have noticed a clicking sound when stepping out of of the bedroom into the hallway. I assumed it is simply where two pieces of sub flooring are rubbi
ng together. I would appreciate any input from someone familiar with this issue if it is unique to this model. I am preparing to install laminate flooring in the kitchen and hallway and would like to know what I may come across once I lift the carpet.
If you get a chance, post some photos of your rig. I'm betting many of us would love to get a look at it.
jor
Thank you guys for all the good info here. It is also nice to hear, that someone else has a coach like this. I will consider all pro and cons and will make a decision accordingly..
"Second Sail" , it would be nice to see some pix of your foretravel.
A lot of people are offering opinions so FWIW, here's my 2 cents worth:
Gas engines are easier to get parts & service for than a diesel engine. Unless you're going to fix it all yourself, find a local shop that will work on an older gas powertrain.
Probably a one ton or slightly heavier chassis. Again, cheaper/easier than a diesel pusher.
LOUSY fuel economy... Buuuttt... you can get gasoline just about everywhere & if you run out its probably a self priming fue system. & for a startercoach you're buying better quality than
Some
Other
Brand.
You're buying an older coach, be prepared to fix stuff & maybe live with some stuff staying broken due to price/part availability. If you're a capable technician, you'll do OK with that end of it. My first coach I got for free & scrapped it when I was done with it. It was particle board & glue.
Think of it this way: You're buying a vacation home that happens to be on wheels so you can change your vacation scenery frequently. As with a home purchase, you get to fix some stuff when you buy a used house. If you buy a new house, you have the builder's warranty to fall back on. Either way, don't be shocked
if when you've got to fix something. Offer less if you think the tires are due to be replaced. Rubber's pricey these days! I dropped $300 for 2 new batteries & was very happy to get a good deal. Again, offer a little less & explain why. Used motor homes don't sell as quickly as a used car or used appliance. The risk is that its a Foretravel & they may decide to wait for another potential buyer! And don't be afraid to tell them that you're looking to start your motor home adventure. Chances are they want the next owner to enjoy the coach as much as they did. Its a vacation home on the lake/racetrack/seashore/in the mountains. My final point is this: the glass is always half full. Even when its half empty.... Don't look for perfect & you'll have more fun!
Wow, it looks like it's in beautiful condition, especially for the price. If everything checks out okay I'd probably buy it and use the money I saved to buy a lot of gasoline for it! :)) Nobody mentioned this yet, but a gasser is much easier to start than a diesel in very cold weather, if that's even a factor for you. The front engine will provide a lot more heat to the defroster when driving in very cold weather too. Those are some important things I discovered while driving my diesel coach in ice storms this past winter. Also consider that a 33' coach will fit in most national park service campgrounds, which are normally limited to 35' maximum length. The front engine won't suck in all the dirt kicked up by your own tires when driving on dirt roads either... Maybe I'm the only one these "problems" apply to but I thought they were worth mentioning.
My experience with gas engines was with Dodge 440-3's. Not a real comparison with a Chevy but I will carry with me always the amount of time that I spent on electrical and heat problems on those gas engines.
Second, I watched a mechanic swap out an engine thru the mid door of a FT, what a chore, don't think I would ever try that.
Gary B
Guess it just boils down to how you plan to use it. For just short trips and putsing around, it would probably do well. For any serious cross country, up thru the mountains and running thru the heat all day, you would end up dis-satisfied short of a diesel pusher. I guess we cant have it all in one rig ---- Maybe having two rigs would be the ticket!!!! Have a great day ---- Fritz
What is the normal lifespan of a gasoline engine in MH duty?
I seem to recall seeing a number of years ago that 75-100,000 miles was considered normal for a gas engine.
Probably before this coach some earlier Foretravels were missing a few cross members in the hallway area that turned out to be needed to support the floor. Was fixable and probably not needed on the grand villa
Was wondering about that. I just put in a cheap floating wood floor & had some issues with the hallway area & the bathroom having a HUGE dip. Fixable is a subjective term.... It appears that the bathroom & passenger side cabinet & closet unit will have to be pulled to fix it. Doable but no fun :-(
Was fixable from underneath. Added a crossmember or two to support the floor.
I came from a 1998 Winnebago Adventurer with a front engine 460. The engine wasn't so bad but man I hated that transmission. Look at it wrong and it downshifted and when it did it screamed over 3K RPM 2 feet from you. It behaved the same way unloaded at 15K lbs or fully loaded with our SUV toad at 24K lbs. Fully loaded and we were in 2nd gear, 25-30mph up every 6% grade. One 10% grade we accidentally found was first gear, torque converter unlocked and felt like it wanted to go backwards. I almost stopped and disconnected the toad. Maybe I should have.
But I put synthetic transmission fluid in before I got it and none of those events burn the fluid. For the work I subjected that motorhome to do, it took it like a champ.
It was very moody. Even after the fuel pump finally went and a new OE upgraded pump went in it was very down on power until the engine was very hot after running an hour or so. Loved to ping despite chasing down all the possible causes. It had speed density (MAP) tuning and I think that was probably the cause.
I would NEVER. EVER. HAVE. ANOTHER. GAS. POWERED. COACH!
Unless something dramatically changed from a technology standpoint.
I own a GV gas model.
The reason I own this model is because I can do all the maintenance and repairs myself, except maybe the windshield replacement if need be.
It's just a Ford in a "beautiful" box. I don't mind the 7-8 mpg. At only 29' it's a hotrod and can pull my VW Vanagon day camper easily?
It's also my home sweet home.
Excellent point, Michael j.
Chris
Vanagons are great vehicles for a toad. Lots of room for the leftovers that won't fit in the Foretravel. We have a gang of relatives coming over from the U.K. in just over a year. Going to do the bi-annual trip to Yellowstone and will be able to squeeze all including Koda in the Vanagon. I have three semi-dead Vanagons so must get to work on one.
29' is a great size and perfect for two people and dog. Love our 36' but miss the convenience of the smaller rig. 7.3 Ford mechanical turbo diesel is a bolt up in your rig.
You must be fuel injected to get 7-8 mpg. Our 440 Dodge with AFB only got about 5 mpg.
Pierce
Tell me more Bob. I would love to eliminate that floor sag. It sure didn't help when the water heater froze &thawed & flooded the house! There were several inches of water in the coach by the time Murray found it.
Can the supports be installed without lifting the body off the frame? Know of a written procedure somewhere?
You need to call james Triana at Foretravel. My comments were on some pre grand villa ftx's
Factory welded in cross members. This is probably not a do it yourself job.
See where the sags are inside and then slide under the rig and mark where supports are needed. Probably can cut angle iron or rectangular tubing and leave a tab on each end so you can bolt to the frame without welding. Good to have a metal cutting band saw or at least a Sawzall so you don't get arm weary. Should be an easy fix and cost effective if you DIY.
Pierce
I bet that would be a real chatter box, the 460 is loud enough with it's Banks hardware.
Hey Bob,
What years did the FTX come with a tag axle? And was a front engine Chevy available on a tag axle model? Any idea how difficult an engine swap is in a front engine config? The owner's wife thinks the engine is shot. Found an old one in a field & I'm looking at it for a friend of mine.
Dodges had a ridewell air tag with separate left and right air pressure controls on the dash if 35 feet. 208" WB. Chevys had the same tag at 33 feet because of its 178" WB.
Chevys were a headache. In 83 gm blocked water flow to the head with a different head gadget to lessen the NO2 emissions by making the motor run hotter at the same time coaches got bigger and Foretravels old stock of dodge chassis was running out.
My UAW old buddies mentioned that the Chrysler 1979 bailout was supported by gm with the idea that Chrysler would be out of the chassis biz.
Chevy chassis was weak. Rebuild the 440. Could be "run flat out versus the sorry Chevrolet" as Don "boney" Moore (one of the founders of Foretravel)said one day on my sales porch in California.
Chevy had exhaust manifold problems.
Buddy still has a 1982 35' Foretravel on a 1979 dodge chassis with the original motor in it.
On the Dodge chassis We would drop the front axle and then drop the engine out through the bottom. We also did that with the Chev chassis, but a lot more work, so started taking them out the top.
I think its a chevy just from what I saw glancing through the grill. Its all good, I've got a clatterpillar in mine. :)
I just bet. The 6.2 diseasel up the nose of our p30 chassis truly did like to listen to itself talk...
When properly built the 429/460 platform is arguably the toughest pushrod big block ever made.Richard Petty gave up on Plymouth because of the 429 boss in 68/69 and didn't return untill the goofey super bird came along the boss nine trumped the 426 hemi so dodge built the jetson mobile to outrun with aerodynamics. Shorter stroke than the 396/454 platform cam rides higher in the block so shorter pushrods heaviest maincaps 2 bolt or 4 bolt of any automotive engine ever built in U S and even those heads in 88 can be ported to flow upwards of 195 cfm on exhaust side easy. It is still a gas burner no doubt but in that platform would be kinda fun to build one right with carb intake and trans vendor on tough c6.
Of all the gas engines that foretravel used, the one I had better luck with was the International 446, on road master rail. It also had a dodge 727 trans.
They've all got pluses & minuses. That chevy axle wasn't so bad to drop. Could have been engineered better for service. All depends on how you're going to use it. If I was rich, I'd have a little rig to tow the boat to the lake on weekends & a big rig to live in during the week. Glad mines a DP though. DP & air suspension has me spoiled. :D