In Motorcade magazine that came today, Mr Amys letter mentions a new model they will build for their dealership relationship with MHS.
He mentions a 2015 model on the Spartan K-3 chassis. What is that? Others that use this chassis seem to be tag axle 40-45 FT coaches. I guess it similar price and sizes as FOT now produce, nothing like some of the older models?
Mike
Wow that us certainly a change from building your own. Probably a cheaper price point with the spartan setup. They must be doing well with the command coach stuff and I would bet this might lower the price point a bit.
There has been some talk about this for some time .What all this comes down to is (price) . This very high volume dealer in the Dallas area is not able to sell the IH model .They are price sellers pure and simple . So a coach with say maybe half the price and have the Foretravel name on it is what they need . My big question is this --where does this leave us with our used coaches when it comes time to sell or trade ??? I can see this going on ---(Why should I pay that price when I can buy a new one for much less )? I can see that dealer selling a lot more coaches all right ,but what will that end up doing to everything else .Might this reduce the name to say maybe --Fleetwood-- status ? The big thing is for me is , what name is going to be on it ? If it's something like Texas-- or lone star-- bla --bla , by foretravel , probably ok . But if Foretravel is the prominent name , not so good . We will have to wait and see and yes I am very concerned to say the least . My loyalty is trembling . Brad Metzger
The K-3 chassis is used on a high end Newmar that lists in the mid $800,000. (And a few others)
King Aire Specifications | Newmar (http://www.newmarcorp.com/motor-coaches/luxury/king-aire/specifications)
I wonder just how much cheaper a FT K-3 would really be. FT let the lower end of their market (U270) go. There may well be buyers out there for new coaches in the $700k market.
I have never been a big fan of the hard, shiny gloss look. The warmth and comfortable feeling of wood and fabric make for a quieter, cozier home. Just my opinion. Thee way they are going there won't be much to choose from (for me anyway) in a five or six year old coach in 2020. We will just keep ours running and in good shape.
A Spartan Press Release...
Spartan Motors Chassis Unveils High-Line Diesel Chassis
Spartan Keeps Pace with Consumer Demand with Feature-Packed Chassis For Class 'A' Market
CHARLOTTE, Mich., Dec. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Buyers of high-end motorhomes demand the latest features, most comfortable ride, and newest high-tech components for their coaches. For three decades, Spartan Motors Chassis has met that demand with a variety of diesel pusher chassis that offer the best performance, ride and handling.
Now, the Charlotte, Mich.-based subsidiary of Spartan Motors, Inc. (Nasdaq: SPAR) intends to bring high-performance chassis to an entirely new level. Spartan Chassis today premiered the all new K3 chassis, a feature- packed diesel chassis designed to offer the ultimate in RV comfort and performance. The Company unveiled the K3 at the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) tradeshow in Louisville, Ky., which runs from Dec. 2-4. (Booth #1025)
"The buyers of high-end motorhomes are demanding more features and options from their RVs than ever before, which adds weight and extreme performance demands," said Richard Schalter, president of Spartan Chassis. "At the same time, they expect the very best power, ride and handling. The all-new K3 chassis represents our commitment to bring the ultimate chassis platform to RV owners and manufacturers who demand the best."
An important feature of the K3 is the stronger frame structure. This truss design is the strongest in the industry, and enables OEMs to slide out either one or both sides of the vehicle if they desire, adding a huge amount of square footage and living area. Spartan said the introduction of the K3 chassis, coupled with its new Competitor chassis, the lowest-cost diesel chassis on the market, gives Spartan Chassis the broadest selection of products in the diesel RV market. Spartan said it has already delivered prototypes of the K3 chassis to OEMs with production slated to begin during the second quarter of 2004.
The K3 chassis features a rear-engine mounted Cummins ISX 525hp engine, a side cooling system, and a towing capacity of 15,000 lbs. In addition, the K3 offers:
-- A reinforced, raised structural frame consisting of a web of steel frame rails and sub-structural support beams.
-- An Allison 4000MH 6-Speed transmission that provides 1,650 lbs. per foot of torque.
-- A Ridewell 34,000 lb. rear suspension, which includes a 14,000 lb. tag axle. This axle offers a smoother, more stable ride and better weight distribution.
-- Optional air-supply line for a tow vehicle breaking system.
Standard features on the K3 include 5" NGI gauges, electronic height control valves, an all-wheel tire pressure monitoring system and a power tilt/telescoping steering column. The K3 also offers Knorr Brehmse air disc front brakes and a Dana Kirkstall IFS84 front suspension.
"We expect the K3 chassis to expand Spartan's market share leadership in the upper-end diesel segment, where our innovation, structural integrity and custom features stand out from the competition," said John Sztykiel, Spartan Motors chief executive officer. "While the entry-level diesel sector is showing strong unit growth, the fastest growing segment is 500 hp and above motorhomes. The K3 specifically targets this trend, and we expect it to be the standard bearer for OEMs and end-users looking for the premier chassis in the market."
About Spartan Motors, Inc.
Spartan Motors, Inc. (Welcome to Spartan Motors - Spartan Motors, Inc. (http://www.spartanmotors.com) ) designs, engineers and manufactures custom chassis and vehicles for the recreational vehicle, fire truck, ambulance and emergency-rescue markets. The company's brand names -- Spartan(R), Crimson Fire(R) and Road Rescue(R) -- are known in their market niches for quality, value, service and being the first to market with innovative products. Spartan Motors employs approximately 700 at facilities in Michigan, South Dakota, Alabama, Minnesota and South Carolina and is publicly traded on The NASDAQ Stock Market under the ticker symbol SPAR.
The statements contained in this news release include certain predictions and projections that may be considered "forward-looking statements" by the securities laws. These forward-looking statements are identifiable by words or phrases indicating that the Company or management "expects" that a particular result may occur, or that its "guidance" or "initial guidance" is that a particular event may occur. These statements involve many risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including but not limited to economic, competitive, governmental and technological factors affecting the Company's operations, markets, products, services and prices. Additional information about these and other factors that may adversely affect these forward-looking statements are contained in the Company's reports and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The Company undertakes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements to reflect developments or information obtained after the date of this news release.
SOURCE Spartan Motors, Inc.
Look at the bright side of the equation. At least you won't see ship deck loads of Foretravels arriving from China. This is all made in the USA stuff. The chassis sounds impressive to say the least though gives up a lot in the way of simplicity.
Be interesting to see what Foretravel comes up with, is it possible to have six slides to where the thing unfolds like a Transformer toy?
I would bet the retarder would be a "no" as I suspect they are buying a prebuilt chassis that has the basic functions.
If they are trying to compete with the Newmar line, there is no option for a retarder there. And holding tank sizes are much smaller compared to our FTs....
It's price ---price and price again . That is what this is all about . How about ride the Foretravel name until---oh well , sure do hope I am dead wrong about this . Brad Metzger
Well. They have nowhere the buying power to compete on price. It is interesting turn of events. I wonder what will come of it and do hope they make a go of it. If the IH is not selling at the highest volume dealer in the nation,then people are seeing a too expensive a coach for the money. FT is getting a good turn on the big RV forums as one of the better manufactures to look at. That is great but the are probably using the IH to sell the Newmars. Hear is a top builder and a great coach. I can get you in fir just under a million and over here we have a king air for 800 very similar. Standard sales switch.
Is this a recreational vehicle with the Foretravel name, or a mobile command center with some other name?
The K-3 has air disc brakes in the front? Guess that means drums in the rear. That's a step back for Foretravel.
Newmar makes a good product comparatively, BUT having owned both top of the line coaches, a London Aire and our Foretravel - were keeping our Foretravel!
:dance:
I too hope sales of the new product line is successful!
I am concerned that the entry level is too high and counter to most other lines. That said, Foretravel is a different manufacturing but, there's still a need for the >400K price point, so I find it difficult to understand why there is no current effort to meet this demand that is there in other brands.
My opinion, our opinions are that our coaches are far superior to SOB. That does not mean that Foretravel should not pay attention to the marketplace, which they may be.
Wouldn't it be great to see a 2015 GV, even if it was on a Spartain chassis, after all Oshkosh lasted many years. Our values would certainly stabilize if they had new models of the; GV, U295, U320 etc
Something that needs to be understood is this . These new K-3 coaches are not for sale at Foretravel . They will--(only)--be sold by the big dealer in Dallas . They are being built exclusively for that dealer and will not be for sale anywhere else . Brad Metzger
Will they be badged as Foretravels?
Tom ; that's the mystery of this whole deal . If I find out , I will post it post haste :) Brad Metzger
We;ll, the first Foretravel I saw was on a Dodge chassis. Nothing new here, except a step backwards.
Questions;
Does the foretravel chassis cost that much to make the brand non-competitive?
Is that why they abandoned the entry level models?
I know the world got re-set in 08 but seems like other brands are on the move, not to the quality of ours but still production.
We all would benefit with more production ^.^d
http://www.spartanchassis.com/rv/rv.asp (http://www.spartanchassis.com/rv/rv.asp)
Here's a link to a complete intro to the K-3 chassis. It does have air discs all around, and a lot of really nice features. I guess it wouldn't be the end of the world if Foretravel used these chassis. After all, Marathon, Liberty, Vantare, Featherlite, and Millenium are considered top shelf, and they don't build their own chassis, they buy them from Prevost Car Co., of Canada.
I think if you check a bit you'll find Prevost builds the shell . Marathon , Liberty etc. are converters only . And top shelf , yes for sure . Brad Metzger
Yes. The shell, AND the chassis.
This appears to be a great chassis. Foretravel has always had the ability to adapt. Since the new coaches are so expensive not many are being ordered. Now that the motorhome business appears to be picking up and competitors are moving a lot more product:// Foretravel needs to make some business decisions to get their share. Why have a factory working at only 25%. DAN
Buddy has a new winny tour with independent front suspension. Constantly comments to me about the sharp feedback from every square edged cross rut. High air bag pressure to hold the coach up and the same for the front tires.
Unicoaches quad airbags per axle run 1/2 air pressure roughly per bag.
Old vogues used crown chassis with ridewell eight air bag suspension for the sane reason with koni shocks. More body roll unfortunately as the bags were not spread but where the frame crossed the axles.
Beaver marquis with the later gillig chassis also had four airbags on the rear only for better ride and had Koni's all around.
Monaco saw my original unihome display at the old dodger show and Kay, page and Enoch thanked me for showing it with a wheel off and said they would copy it.
I remember telling Foretravel about that and there comment was "we are not worried about Monaco".... Famous last words.
If I were selling a chassis big coach it would be test driven over a carefully scouted route only with no square cross ruts or sharp radius bumps to cross.
Plus low air tire pressure and a empty tank coach especially in the front.
Bob
Sorry Steve,
In the famous words of one of our Presidents "I knew Thomas Jefferson. He was a friend of mine. And Governor, you are no Thomas Jefferson!"
In other words,
I know Prevost (Subsidiary of Volvo Bus Corporation, now). They are friends of mine. And Spartan Chassis Inc., you are no Prevost (nor Foretravel.....for that matter).
Work on a few of them, drive a few of them, fully loaded, average secondary roads and the difference screams out at you.
Neal
Having never driven a K-3, or a Prevost, I couldn't say.
It appears to me that (if) this new coach were for sale at FOT , it would work out just fine . I see the problem as being for sale only at a single dealer and no where else . It will be known as (that dealers coach) . So there will be two Foretravels , a factory coach and the cheep dealer coach . This dealer must be one powerful cookie if he can have Foretravel Build him a cheaper discount coach with Foretravel's name on it and it not obtainable anywhere else . :o :o :o This is one interesting happening to say the least. Brad Metzger
Is the dealer commenting yet on specifics? Have they announced a time line? Do you happen to know the name of the dealer? THANK YOU, Jeff
The dealer is Motor Home Specialist. They are located in Alvarado, Texas.
Jeff, all I had was the magazine announcement by Amys of Foretravel. Amys wrote available 2015.
Brad raised interesting question....will it be a Foretravel name or like the Lone Star, a model built for that dealer and carrying their name, sold no other place?
During the 2 Grandventions we've attended (2007 and 2012), members of the audience asked the panel about building Foretravels on third party chassis during the "Ask Foretravel" session. The general gist of the questions was that this could provide an entry level coach for those not in the market for Nimbus, Phenix, or IH. In the past the response has been "then it wouldn't be a Foretravel; the entry level Foretravel is a used Foretravel".
Perhaps these new MHSRV coaches will have a different brand? It will be interesting to see. If the price point is right and the coaches have some chassis features we have come to expect (retarder, air leveling, great road manners, big tanks), with the house part being built by Foretravel these could be interesting coaches.
We can call it a -Foretravel
Do you think they will use the molds from the U 270-320 Series. ^.^d
Foretravel needs to increase the manufacturing throughput to stay viable as a company. By increasing the amount of units out the door each year they can contain their fixed overhead costs and continual to stay in business. As owners of used Foretravel's its what we need to be able to maintain our units with factory support. I for one do not want to own an orphan.
Al
The word is --- the big dealer who these are being built for , can pick his own name . Who knows what that will be . One thing for sure , it is going to be interesting . Maybe Foretravel will build the same unit , make a few changes and produce it for their own sales with the new Foretravel classification number or name . I see some good if this turns out that way . A lesser price coach , maybe smaller will have a price point that will fill a big gap . How the cards are being dealt and played will be a big part of Foretravel's future in the long term. I truly wish them well . Brad Metzger
The K3 is a big chassis. I have looked at the Essex and the Phenix as they came out at the same time. I know last year the Essex crossed the 800 sales and that was a bnch more then the Phenix. It sold at 6-700k too. I think this might be a great way to get more sales as is the command coach that they talked about at the grandvention.
Perhaps this can turn into a further evolution. Somewhat like what happened when transitioning from the GV to the Unicoach. Hopefully it will work in tandem long enough for the company to grow and become fiancially set with deep pockets in order to ride the rough times out.
Larry
Maybe it will be a K-3Travel. If it meets with success, we might see a TooTravel and a OneABeeTravel. :P
Threetravel ... One less than Fore.
I can certainly understand from a business perspective why Foretravel would want to do this. Having a high volume of product going through the factory certainly reduces the overhead cost per product, and I'm sure it costs less to purchase the chassis from Spartan than it does for Foretravel to manufacture its own chassis.
However, I would hate to see the Foretravel reputation "cheapened" by this lower-end coach with a chassis manufactured by others. Therefore, I really hope it carries some name other than Foretravel.
David, I think you have it right. Thor does it with their various lines. From the Thor website: "Thor Motor Coach brands include Four Winds, Hurricane, Windsport, Chateau, Daybreak, Challenger, Tuscany, Outlaw, Palazzo and A.C.E." Each brand has various models. The Palazzo and Tuscany are their DP lines, and there are big differences between them, so they have different brand names. Since the Foretravel name already applies to a certain level of coach, a lower (or higher) level ought to have a different name.
I understand that the IH45 is priced somewhere around $1-1.5 million. I don't know if there are other brands more expensive than that, but I would guess that there might be. I also would guess that there aren't a lot of sales up there, but then there wouldn't have to be. If Foretravel ever decided to compete in that market I'm sure that they would want a new name for that line. Hmmm, wonder if one of these days we will see Phenex by Foretravel, Nimbus by Foretravel, IH45 by Foretravel as each line is developed to appeal to a slightly different market, along with maybe the lower level line being discussed in this thread and maybe one above the IH45?
No, I DON'T know anything about Foretravel's business plans. I just like to dream about all the expensive things out there that I'll never be able to afford. Wait a minute - I'm sitting here in a coach that sold for $350,000 20 years ago. I wonder how old I'd be when an IH45 gets to be 20 years old. Will I be able to afford it then? Will I be able to drive it then? Fun to dream.
All this talk about a new Foretravel from a group of us with old ones. Yes mine is old to its a 95 u320 and I love it. Why because its solid and its in great shape and because like other old RV's that are well cared for and reliable it gets all the attention when camping. I like many of you with great old coaches pull into a campground and command all the attention. While the guys with the new ones don't get any. Anyone can get a new bus, but the ones I like are the ones that have stood the test of time, and whose owners are proud. So I take my hat off to all you guys with old coaches and lets not worry to much about a new Foretravel which some day will be old to.
Hello
Just a note from a "wanna be" Foretravel owner and one who enjoys reading the all the post on the Forum.
I was at the Factory today and saw the first Foretravel built, Motor Home Specialist, Spartan Chassis, it was a 42 foot, Cummins 500HP, tag axle coach. No name for the coach as yet.
Best wishes to all.
Joe, welcome to the forum. Those of us who have older coaches are very thankful that some years in the past there were people who could afford to buy new coaches. Many of us will never be in a position to even think about buying any sort of new coach, much less a new Foretravel, but what's new today will be on the market as a used coach at some point in the future, and someone will want to move up to a newer coach. What concerns some of us is that Foretravel, like other manufacturers, is making fewer coaches now than they did some years ago. At some point there will be much more demand for those coaches than can be met, and some Foretravel owners will have to decide to either upgrade and keep the coach they have or buy some other brand. Unfortunately, the other brands also have fewer coaches available, so there is little help there.
My prediction is that Foretravel's remodel shop, as well as Extreme and the other businesses that support us owners, will see increased business over the next several years.
If FOT is running at only around 25% production levels, they are in a very dangerous business position. I am surprised that they are not already OEM'ing products to keep the factory operating...
cry42, did you get some pictures?
Falconguy, yes, hopefully they will attach, not the best photos ever.
I could be mistaken on the Horsepower, the Tag Axle appeared to be "pivotable" for turns, air ride suspension and it had leveling jacks.
Hi Dave, thanks for the welcome. Its great to have a forum like this with people who share all there knowledge. I'm used to owning older things like classic cars and making them as original as possible. In my humble opinion Foretravel makes the best RV with my mindset. My coach has had no changes except upgraded TV's everything including the primus heat works just like new. Anything replaced was with oem parts. I am new to rving but I know I made the right choice. And my 19 year old bus can perform or outperform with most of the new ones. Its construction and simplicity make it the best choice. Happy Trails to everyone
Thanks for the pics. I'm at FOT now dropping off my coach for its "annual" . I'm going to try to get a closer look when I come back to pick it up. I'm really curious to see what this thing has to offer.
Looking forward to what you learn! Hopefully the sales guys are able to discuss it...
Just got the new issue of the MotorCader and Greg Amys article touches on the new models for 2015 including the one for MHS and Lone Star.
Things are looking up it appears.
Richard B
@falconguy, were you sticking around and getting the coach back or having to make round trip?
We are scheduled to pick our coach up on the 8th.
Glad to hear from another owner that uses the Primus system. VERY rare. Hopefully we can help each other with up keep.
ChuSmith, unfortunately it is a drop off. I really prefer to stay and monitor things. However, this pesky work thing keeps interfering with my plans. I will be back on or about the 13Th if you are around.
Same for me, funny how that work thing seems to get in the way of all our fun.
oh wait, no work, no fun... Geez
I am anxious to get a look at the new build and now after seeing the details on TV regarding the Luxury Bus from San Antonio to DFW, I am wondering if FT isn't entering the Passenger arena. Interesting stuff.
Pick up the coach on may 8-9 and will be back home in Liberty Hill by Sunday for Mom's day with the family.
Will try to catch ya'll next time.
PIPE DREAM,
K3 shorter at 38 foot with circa 95 GV front end, genny in front, mid entry, dual roof ac's ducted,dual pane glass could get by with 500 horse power, then add 2 propane furnaces, Domestic reefer, doorbell with touch handle, Retarder, include usual GV amenities and price it at about $750.
Wait, I could do a drastic remodel on my 95 and come out better.
No I have not been in CO inhaling. ;D
Gary B
On MHS web site it looks like they are going to call it the Foretravel Rhelm FS6.
Mark
Mark, Would you mind posting a link to this new info... I am sorry, yet I cannot find it... THANK YOU
Found it Mark! Under the Foretravel link it says:
Foretravel Realm FS6 coming soon...
no doubt additional information will be coming sooner...
From Foretravel Motorhomes, Foretravel RV, New RVs, Used RVs (http://www.mhsrv.com/foretravel-rv/)
So is this saying that if the largest motorhome dealer in the country can not sell the IH and Phenix and Nimbus as priced they are overpriced. It says that FT needed to come up with a less expensive version to sell unless they price it above the IH. It will be interesting to see the price point they come put it at. I am happy they are building units both the command coaches and these as it will keep production going but it also says that there might be an issue with the business model they had been using. I guess the number of coaches sold speaks volumes and will speak again if this new coach takes off and outsells the others.
John, I think James at Extreme said it best,it is my understanding that he told the Fore's to keep the U270 as the entry level coach, do away with U295, keep the U320 and buy Prevost shells for the Hi line coach.
Yes I think so too
Foretravel did six 35' prevost conversions long ago. Stopped when prevost switched only to 40'
Sold a couple of them used. Not fast. Heavy
Here is a link to the new Realm FS6...
#8814 - 2015 Foretravel Realm FS6 Luxury Villa 1 for sale in Alvarado TX (http://www.mhsrv.com/2015-foretravel-realm-fs6-luxury-villa-1-new-diesel-pusher-tx-i1208392)
All the listed specs, including the Spartan K-3 Chassis with 200 gallon fuel tank, sure sound nice...
600hp! Wahoo!11
Craig
Don't see a retarder mentioned (nor the fresh/grey/black capacities). Hydronic heat but not necessarily AquaHot. Not a fan of the floorplan shown.
According to James T., this was supposed to be Realm by Foretravel, not Foretravel Realm. He is going to have this looked into.
Did not like the fuel slosh with a fore and aft fuel tank myself but at this weight I doubt its noticeable.
Having the tankage in the first compartment left to right across the coach lower the polar moment of inertia. The farther forward the more the coach resists changes in its turning moment. That's why the unihome and unicoach have the tanks where they are. But its a nice piece for a frame setup.
Steering box used to cause issues as it had to be on the frame to allow movement of the chassis from the rail car on delivery. A unicoach has the box mounted wider for a better straighter steering column angle and less wander. Although independent front might negate that issue.
First photo showed a steering wheel and what looked to be a slanted steering column.
The 97 and up Foretravels I understand moved the box out farther to straighten the column. But that is old stuff with solid.axles.
Guy in the cummins shop with an IFS 06 country coach 36' allure mentioned a lot of steering wander to me today. Hopefully his possibly overinflated Yokohama tires are the culprit. 13,200 front tire capacity but with a lift mounted gold wing on the back the 120 psi was probably too high?
Went to weigh the coach after we talked. Newby. Plus I mentioned double checking the wheel bearings for correct adjustment.
K3 has Inboard air bags and shocks. No xtarder. Smart choice as the upgrade is an IH coach.
Saddle bagged compartments as they will hang from outriggers from the frame probably.
Maybe not. Makes the coach taller. No runway for hose runs under the floor maybe. Normal is bundled to a side rail and not accessible long term.
Looks like an old gillig or crown. Huck bolted.
Defintely the best chassis I currently see.
Part of any product is cash flow. Most chassis are financed by the chassis builder until the dealer floors the coach. Foretravel has no money out for the underneath parts. At least that's how it used to be done.
Probably $150k chassis? Guess?
SO it is priced just under 700K. That is closer to what the Phenix and IH should be at. The Essex came out at the same time as the Phenix and they have sold over 1000 of them. So, the price point and the dealer network makes a difference. I wonder if the Dealer said you have to lower the price or we can not sell them as they cost too much. The issue is 700 or a million still is rarified air.
If it has an electric fridge and electric cook top,what dose in need with LP detectors for,did I miss something.
$4500 per mo for 20 years, I don't think so.
There are 4 new Foretravels (Iron Horse) on the same dealers web site, listing for about $1.3M each and discounted to $800k.
Lyle Reed said the hand built custom chassis made all the FT's expensive to manufacture.
I suspect they are profitable at the current business volumes and head count, so added profitable volume should have a very positive impact
As is the current trend in floor plan design; too many square feet dedicated to pooping & bathing, and not enough dedicated to cooking & entertaining...I suppose the nouveau riche tend to go that way? Definitely not a camping vehicle, but very nice as is the usual with Foretravels of new lineage.
Ah...to have money to burn...
Glad I'm not the only one. I don't need a big bathroom and a big bedroom only prolongs the chase. I am pretty sure I've lived in apartments smaller than the bathroom on that RV!
Craig
Multiple bathrooms in an RV has always made me chuckle. Only in America.
Actually two bathrooms make a lot of sense, but only on a rear bath 45 footer with two bedroom slides and a non-folding bed. No need to roll, crawl, or jump over the bed to make it to the potty when the slides are in.
Our U300 has no slides, a walk-through bath, and a rear bedroom. As far as I'm concerned, that's the ideal arrangement.
In my opinion one of the best coaches Foretravel built for just two people to travel in, was the U320T withe one or Two slides,my self I would like the U320T with a single slide. b^.^d
Every Foretravel I've owned was just for two people .Have had a few folks ask , how many does it sleep , and I always say two . Then the next thing I usually hear is , why does a coach this big only sleep two , I have a friend that says his coach sleeps six . I usually say ok , but they cost too much for me . Word games , yep . Got to get a little fun any where you can . :) Brad Metzger
Old wooden sign in Foretravels
Motor home capacities:
Six for cocktails
Four for dinner
Two for night night.
Just my gut feelings,
Either Foretravel has let the Fox into the chicken coop, or they left the door open so they would come in.
If I owned the largest RV dealership in the country I might start thinking about what would be next.
Maybe eventually buying or controlling a first class name so I could manufacture a downgraded product with a first class name on it.
Its been done thousands of times.
This could be the first baby step towards that end goal.
That's the way this smells to me.
You may be right in this one. When it comes to money & survival, people do weird things. Many are no longer around today. Another economic downturn and many others may not make it. On the other hand, the market Foretravel goes after has done very well since 2009, and not much significant volume was generated with the very high end of things. Perhaps an alliance is not all that bad a thing.
I agree.
Kitchen on the road side. Dinette on the curb side looking out at your campsite under the awning works well.
Lots of manufacturers discover that their own products - on the second-hand market - have become their biggest competitor. Cisco (maker of very, very, good routers and switches for the computer networking world) discovered that (but manage to control it with a stringent software update policy). When you have 10-year-old motor homes that are pretty much as good as the ones rolling out the door for 8-times the price you have to differentiate or die.
I'm wondering if this spells the end of "we build our own frames". And whether it matters.
And will they have an "entry level"? Or just let the second-hand market cover that niche? Do they even have anything like an entry level coach now?
Craig
Coach #9025 spec sheet attached
General spec sheet attached
No retarder - guess that means it has something like an exhaust brake?
No mention of leveling although wasn't it mentioned here on the forum that it would have hydraulic jacks?
13'3" tall, like an IH.
I wonder how well MHSRV will be able to differentiate it from the Entegra Cornerstone they sell, also a K3 chassis, for $200K+ less.
Boy, is this thing a disappointment. :-(
I really don't understand why they couldn't just restart the 320 line with just a couple smart floorplans and hit this same price target. At least it would be a real Foretravel.
I agree, or come out with a no frills Nimbus with enough production volume to kick the cost down to the same range as bolting a box atop a Spartan high volume chassis.
Those of us with itty bitty 36-40 foot coaches, driven ourselves to campgrounds, don't fathom the target market. These are headed for NASCAR races, and professionally driven.
X2, I don't think we will ever see FT get down to the "entry level 250-300K". Been a long time since a FT of any kind sold for that new. Even at the 250K mark is still well above most folks entry level mark. I suspect any agreement to build a private label is just an attempt to up production, no diffrent than the medical units they are building. With FT's remodel shop running wide open along with paint, parts and repairs (long wait times to get in) Ft is doing just fine, and all that shop work is relatively no risk high profit money in the bank today stuff.
Appears to me to be a production line. If they can sell enough of these they could become a regular line of Foretravel just like 295 or 320. Lots of Buyers out there with different ideas of quality. Another way to meet some different market. I like it. Foretravel to be competitive must venture into new ideas. DAN
Dan you are right. I think it is a good way to go too. Thinking outside the box might be a line on the spartan K3 and a Prevost shell too.
What goes around comes around. All early pre unihome coaches were on frame rail chassis. Probably why the fores resisted the slide outs till almost too late. Later they had to quit using their semi Monoque body and frame setup. You can see the forward slanted load bearing steel in the sidewalls on mine easily as the vacuum bonded sidewall exposes the structure. Cool.
Without those you need main frame rails. Taller box. Not as elegantly engineered. Heavier. More expensive to build by a ton. Everything has to be bigger. More parts. Bigger axles and tires and a tag setup.
$230h u300 at 24,000 pounds(?) actual weight versus 45,000 pounds IH at $1.2?
Shame a non slide would not sell new. At $500k?
Bob
If what I suspect is true, these 45 foot coaches are not designed for the owner to drive, at least not much. Maybe once to a pricy resort, or by a paid driver to the NASCAR races. So features we as drivers want are not so important.
That being the case, outboard air bags only on the drive axle are fine, they provide the bulk of your side to side leverage. Disc brakes only in the front are fine, they provide the bulk of your stopping. Semi-monocoque rigidity is not needed for a better driving experience if the owner is rarely or never behind the wheel. Why pay more for safety features like a retarder when the owner is only aboard when it is safely parked. Why pay more for convenience features like air leveling when the paid driver sets it up, and besides, it feels more like a brick house on jacks than on airbags.
These are not the droids we're after.
More Fore Parking than Fore Travel.
Yes, it's clear that most of us are not the market they're targeting with these coaches. Fortunately for guys like me there are a lot of Unihomes and Unicoaches for me to move up into once I get tired of tooling around the narrow roads of Baja. :D
Craig
I think, in all my uneducated prejudice, that FT ought to stick with engineering. They make traveller's coaches to a yacht standard. If they want to go after a larger but lower pricepoint market, they should explore making thier own class B. It may be that this segment is so well served by sprinter/mercedes that there just isn't room, but I'd like to see what these guys could do in a footprint that size. At least it seems to me they could do that without diluting what they re kown for. This thread sure. seems to point out this tendency with this new thing. It rather sounds like it's making my 25 year old relic look better and better...
The most recent Jackie saw on this, some chat blog or such. Anyway, a Spartan statement yesterday
Spartan Chassis and Foretravel, Together? | MOTORHOME CHAT (http://motorhomechat.com/posts/spartan-chassis-and-foretravel-together)
Link to new Foretravel K-3 Spartan Chassis specs:
http://www.spartanchassis.com/rv/riding/specs/2015/foretravel/2015_foretravel.pdf (http://www.spartanchassis.com/rv/riding/specs/2015/foretravel/2015_foretravel.pdf)
Most interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Here's the version for Newmar's King Aire for comparison
http://www.spartanchassis.com/rv/riding/specs/2015/newmar/2015_Newmar_KingAire.pdf (http://www.spartanchassis.com/rv/riding/specs/2015/newmar/2015_Newmar_KingAire.pdf)
So, unless I missed something, it looks like the same chassis - "no ups - no extras!"
Hi,
Any predictions on the projected cost?
The differences I noted are:
Foretravel has a Douglas power tilt and telescoping steering wheel.
Newmar has "Comfort Drive" steering assist, driver memory seat/mirror/pedal/TRW steering column positions, TPMS, and optional adaptive cruise and collision avoidance system
So the question is then if they are so similar, the price will be the deciding factor. I can't see how FT has greater buying power then Newmar so it is going to be interesting to see the final price.
RV Trader has some 2015 Newmar King Aires listed from $828,632 to $918,608. Motor Home Specialist shows the 2015 Foretravel Realm FS6 with a MSRP of $1,019,910 and a sales price of $699.911.
If that is the FS6 price point, is that not a direct compete to the IH? If i'm spending that kind of $$, would I not look at an IH that has the custom chassis? This WILL be interesting to see how it all plays out!
I agree. It will be very interesting to see how these are marketed (as compared with the existing Foretravel lineup) and to (eventually) understand Foretravel's long-term business strategy. I wonder if Foretravel would like to get out of the "chassis business" and simply purchase the chassis from someone else.
???
I suspect long term strategy is grow profitably, as such the in house chassis will survive if sufficient profitably unit sales exist. Plus this is a logical upgrade path from a lower priced FT. How many posts on this forum have implored FT to build a downmarket model?
I say so far so good
Let's say you find out your price is too high. If you cut your price you irritate the current owners. And hurt the late model resale prices. Hmmmm
Change the design. New price point.
May or may not be cheaper. Does not matter. Perceived value is the key.
Foretravel changed its price a lot when the unihome came out. Up $40k. May or may not have cost more........
Just business. Plus it gives a better trade up, trade down structure. Good move Greg.
Or none of the above may apply.
They also have the freightliner command coach business. It will be interesting to see how all this turns out.
I'm not familiar. What is that?
From Foretravel's website news
Foretravel also announced that in addition to their Class A High End Motorcoaches, they are assembling a 40 ft. front engine diesel coach that is designed for medical and emergency applications. The first three units produced are being used as dental labs. The unit is named "Lone Star" and is distributed by Motor Specialty Vehicles of Jasper, Texas. President Greg Amys stated Foretravel is excited about this new opportunity for Foretravel and building this unit is resulting in the hiring of additional employees at Foretravel.A little Googling and I found this reference to "Lonestar" as a platform and "dental"
Mobile Specialty Vehicles - St. David?s Giant Smile Tour (http://www.mobilespecialtyvehicles.com/home/news/82-st-david-s-foundation-dental-program-giant-smile-tour)
I suspect "Motor Specialty Vehicles" in the press release was a typo and that the joint venture is with "Mobile Specialty Vehicles" Mobile Specialty Vehicles - Mobile Medical Vehicles | Command Center, Health (http://www.mobilespecialtyvehicles.com/)
ETA here's the MSV page for LoneStar Mobile Specialty Vehicles - The Lone Star Motorcoach | Mobile Health & Medical (http://www.mobilespecialtyvehicles.com/vehicles/the-lone-star)
And another edit - the YouTube video
A Star Is Born: The Lone Star From Mobile Specialty Vehicles - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wmK_Q0z6PY#t=89)
Thanks for the info Michelle. Very interesting.
Ron, at ladies driving school last fall they reviewed the labs, said at that time they had orders for a dozen. I imagine they hope to grow that business but these first were built for a specific customer, not speculative as I recall the presentation back then.
I guess most recall the horse trailer venture. Not sure if they still make those high grade units but see one on their lot from time to time.
Thanks Michelle.. The youtube video was particularly interesting.
Having owned a King Aire and just barely owned (3 whole days), I have a few observations. First, my Foretravel is 10 years old. My King Aire was three years old, when I owned it. That said, the interior quality and the stability of the Foretravel is, IMO, far far better. Even without Comfort Drive, the U320 drives much better. Fewer rattles. Less road noise. Better walls, switches etc.
That said, the King Aire does have some great bells and whistles. The option of air leveling or jacks, is one example as we couldn't get level with air on our first stop. Brakes seemed far better on the KA. And accelerating while pulling almost anything up the Rocky Mountains is hard to beat. The K-3 chassis seemed rock solid. Only the box on top was a little too glitzy and a little less substantial than the foretravel (previous comments about drive ability aside).
There is no way I would buy a new IH. And, I almost bought 2014 King Aire when I bought this U320 knowing the construction was far better in the Foretravel just because I did want 600 hp and more features but couldn't find a used Phenix that would work for us.
I went to see those folks in Alverado for a third time to see about this mystery coach called the Realm and had the third unpleasant experience there and decided, generally, I was tired of RV dealers and the games they played. (Like the Newmar dealer in Florida who advised me not to buy the King Aire at Foretravel a few months ago, then bought it themselves to resell it.) I did not pass go nor collect my $200. I went directly to my man Paul and bought a ten year old coach directly from the factory I felt I could rely on. Trust was far more important to me. And, those people at Foretrvael have me convinced they generally want the best for me and my family.
The confusing part to me is why for a factory that has had far more capacity in the past, why my options are a $1.3 new coach or a $200,000 ten year old coach with nothing (or very little) in between.
Foretravel, again IMO, has a huge potential market but doesn't appear to be interested in going after it. What I don't know, and probably shouldn't, is the business rationale for doing what they do.
In the event someone asked though, I would tell them If FOT could sell me a high quality build on a k-3 with comparable bells and whistles for half the money of an IH, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. However, I'm not interested in the dealer distribution model though. Those guys just don't seem to get sustainable relationships and their needs verses mine are just too different.
I do wish Foretravel well and will enjoy the journey in an awesome 10 year old coach that serves the needs of my family of four very very well. I'm thankful they do what they do and how they do it.
"Later on down the road" - Johnny Cash (highly recommend)
Joe Lucky1,
Enjoyed reading your assessment and agree it is unfortunate that Foretravel does not have something in their line-up that is affordable for "regular" folks. And, it was VERY interesting how your U320 drives better than a relatively new top-o-the-line Newmar WITH Comfort Drive. It will be interesting to see what the Realm really is after it debuts...
FT can't go downmarket price wise with their in-house chassis and make reasonable returns. They want to use a dealer network so that the dealer can floorplan Inventory not FT. I suspect you'll see Ice Age in Phoenix models custom ordered directly from the factory. And the lower price point coach based on a commercial chassis through a limited dealer network. Probably a great compromise to allow for travel to maintain and sustain itself as a viable business.
Not all dealers are bad actually MOT is a great dealer but most RV sales guys are bad
There is a large market for 28-34' range of motorhomes. FT has given up this market a long time ago. I bought a 34', but really wanted something in the 25-30' range........I did this just to get a FT and the associated quality and robustness.
Saying it is "too expensive" to build a custom chasis, etc is kind of foolish. All the design and engineering work has been done. The cost to weld up the components is merely variable costs. Of course, all those jigs and tools may have been scrapped.
The last 15 years has been of opulence and high spenders as quality manufacturers have abandoned the bread and butter upper middle class buyer. It's happened the same way in the boat world. Foretravel and Hatteras Yachts share nearly identical history, quality, and downfalls.
I'll have to keep my 1998 34' running forever. I literally don't have a replacement option in the 2000 year models.
krush,
MOT recently sold a 2005 U270 34' Foretravel. So, there are some 2000 year models available to purchase.
A motorhome for weekend use and maybe a two-week vacation is a far different machine than one that is intended for full-time, or even long-time, use. While it is possible to full-time in most anything (there are people full-timing on motorcycles), Foretravel has gone after the full-timer market, and most full-timers prefer larger coaches.
Would there be a market for a smaller coach? Perhaps. Perhaps someone could check production statistics and see what percent of the coaches built in each year were of what size and the number of slides. That would give an idea of what to expect in the future.
I would really like to know how much less it costs to build an otherwise identical motorhome on a Spartan K3 chassis than on a Foretravel chassis. It seems as if the drivetrain and virtually all suspension components are either identical or comparable. How is Spartan able to build a quality chassis at a significantly lower cost--and then make a reasonable profit on it when they sell it to Foretravel--with the final product still costing less than if Foretravel did all of it?
"I would really like to know how much less it costs to build an otherwise identical motorhome on a Spartan K3 chassis than on a Foretravel chassis." I doubt that anyone outside of Foretravel management would have that information. Consider, though, that the design and engineering costs are incurred before the first sale is made. Suppose that it costs $100,000 to design a chassis, and it also costs $100,000 to build it. If only one such chassis is produced, the cost for that chassis is $200,000. If 10 are produced, the cost for each one is $110,000. If 100 are built, the cost for each one is $101,000. If 1000 are built, the cost is down to $100,100 per chassis. Now add the savings on the steel and other parts by buying in larger quantities, and buying a mass-produced chassis can be quite a bit cheaper than building your own.
I pulled the numbers out of thin air just for an example. I have no idea what a chassis costs. The idea, though, still holds true. Spreading the engineering costs over a larger number of items will reduce the cost per item.
Foretravel has high relative material costs, no automation (robots ) and a higher overhead per unit sale. Yes, more volume would help all three cost drivers, but that would require significant investment with unknown returns.
It also makes it very difficult for folks like Steve and I (and many others on the forum) who have several more coaches to buy in our lifetimes. What will our next coach(es) be? We still haven't been able to answer that question.
Well put Michelle. I will face that issue too, sooner or later.
The k3 could cost more. Probably does.
Sometimes newer isn't better. A refit on an existing coach is much less expensive than a new one!
That is true about a refit and I have done that on mine. But you can only do so many miles too.
How many miles are people getting out of their Foretravels?
Definitely, and that's what we've been doing. It certainly is possible that we won't ever buy another coach and will instead keep refreshing this one for the next 20-25 years :)
Tennessee RV did some engine and bulkhead work on a FT to support construction projects that shows a very large heavy trailer.
Most will die of neglect or poor maintenance long before they mileage out
Wish I could afford enough diesel to drive mine into the ground!!!
I have a bad habit (maybe it's good?) of buying stuff that is pretty much fully depreciated and running it into the ground. I plan to do the same with my newly acquired FT. I plan to get at least 10-15 years out of it. It's never seen snow, and I'll keep it that way.
How many miles are too many? Many semi tractors are typically sold at somewhere a million miles. My Foretravel should be good (from a chassis, suspension and drivetrain standpoint) for roughly that many miles. I, however, will probably be worn out before that point!
We plan for this coach to last as long as we can travel. Just keep up with maintanence & repairs, upgrades when we want and off we go.
We can keep her cheaper than a new one and still have some $$$ for diesel.
Well, I know we will be in the market for a somewhat smaller coach when we full-time. My wife reiterated again this weekend her opposition to going 40-feet. For her, 35-feet is the sweet spot. I can hopefully push her to 36-feet so that any number of FT coaches would become candidates, but I likely can't get her to go longer. At least not as things now stand.
Has she been in a FT yet? Look at everything nearby as a start .
Going to work on that. I may have to skip over the length as anytime she hears how long a coach is she has no interest in seeing it.
Hmmm, life must be interesting there.....:-)
Why is 35 feet the "sweet spot"? Is there some specific reason for it, or is it an emotional thing?
A 228" WB Foretravel will make a right hsnd turn from a two lane road the another two lane road and not cross the centerline of either road.
I never really understood this 40+ foot phenomena. Granted, my use (and my demographic) is vastly different than the retired full timer. But a 40+ foot coach, plus something towed is really limiting on where one can go.
At that length it really is major highways and big RV parks that are essentially crowded cities! Isn't the point of a self sufficent RV to get out and and enjoy the country?
If Foretravel made a 25 or 30 foot coach, i likely would've bought that. I considered a class B, but it couldn't haul all my toys...lol. And I figured for a little bit bigger and a couple MPG, I can have it all!
I've driven 40 and 45 foot busses and truck/trailers that are much longer. I wouldn't want to deal with that when I'm exploring the country. I really think this is one reason the Sprinter RV's seem to be taking off. Funny how old school is new school.
quote"At that length it really is major highways and big RV parks that are essentially crowded cities! Isn't the point of a self sufficent RV to get out and and enjoy the country?"
Exactly my feelings too and one of main reasons I put solar in. It seems that a lot of people who like to get away and travel/live in their coach also have to have all the "electronic gadgets" too.
JohnH
I really disagree, having had a 36 and a 40. Been to lots of COE and NP (Yellowstone and glacier included) campgrounds, plus numerous township and state campgrounds. A few took a little planning, but have never had an issue.
Most of this length debate is a lot like a Ford vs. Chevy debate.
My coach sits 6 months on a site that has a 35 foot max rating. Talked to owner, measured sit, backed it in 6 years ago and ever since.
Love to hear from 40 owners on where they haven't fit, or avoided because they thought they wouldn't fit
I'm not trying to argue or start a debate. I know people have different desires and needs. I spend most of my time outside, so interior volume isn't such a big deal (plus it's usually just me). Sometimes, I even sleep outside! Ability to get off the beaten path is my goal.
Some people stay at one site for many weeks/months a year. Some people travel a lot and rack up the miles. I just think it's less stressful if one is doing lots of driving off the interstate to have something less than 40 feet (from experience).
I mean, once the coach is parked, it could be 100ft long and it wouldn't matter, because all the stressful activities are complete!
We measured our U225 36-foot motor home and it is 35' 7".
Craig
I think some of subsequent replies touch on some of the reasons she doesn't want to go 40-feet. The maneuverability that CaflashBob referred to is part of it. The getting off the beaten path that krush stated and John alluded to are also part of it. We don't expect/plan to spend much if any time in RV parks. Our goal is to stay in Forest Service campgrounds, state parks, and maybe a bit of boondocking on BLM land. Based on what I've read elsewhere, it just seems those things are much easier if you stay closer to 35-feet in length. While I want a nice home on wheels, by which I mean comfortable, functional kitchen, place to watch a movie or read a book, it does not have to be huge. I like the construction and the simple, stylish lines of the FT coaches (especially, say 1995-2003), which is what brought me here.
I found this interesting, taken from:
Turning Radii (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:turning-radius)
Coach length/wheel base/ approximate turning radius for beam axle coaches:
This should apply to both the U270/295/320 and the Nimbus/Phenix beam axle coaches.
34' 204" wb 35'9" curb to curb 37'8" wall to wall
36' 228" wb 39'3" curb to curb 41'4" wall to wall
38' no tag 252" wb 39'7" curb to curb 41'9" wall to wall
38' tag 228" to drive /278" to tag wb 39'3" curb to curb 41'4" wall to wall
40' no tag 276" wb 44'3" curb to curb 46'6" wall to wall
40' tag 252" to drive /302" to tag wb 39'7" curb to curb 41'9" wall to wall
42' tag 276" to drive /326" to tag wb 46'5" curb to curb 48'9" wall to wall
What I note is that the turning radii fall into three tight groupings. The 34' is short, at 35'9", the 42' and 40' without tag fall long, at 44'-46', and in the mid range are all the others, the 36', 38' with or with our tag, and 40' with tag, in the mid 39' turning radius range.
So as far as turning radius goes, there are only three choices, short-medium-long, and the four most common configurations (36', 38' with or without tag, and 40' with tag) are essentially the same.
So that leaves overall length a factor when the parking space has hard limits and a factor in deciding how much non-essential stuff you fan find room for (where tag axles add carrying weight capacity but subtract cubic feet of bay storage space. And of course a factor in which floor plan you fall in love with.
The operative word is 'radius'
Double it to get an estimate of whether the space in front of you is enuf ;o)
For us there was no "phenomena" when choosing coach length. We want a vehicle that will give us a livable interior, and plenty of storage space (both inside and in the basement area) for extended (perhaps multi-month) traveling or potentially full-timing at some point. In the mid-to-late 90s Foretravels (in our price range) there is a marked difference in exterior and interior storage space between the 36-foot and 40-foot U320 models, and the bathroom design is far more livable (at least for us) in the 40-foot models.
I have driven a significantly shorter motorhome, as well as a 96" wide, 35' long coach for our church tour groups. Our 40-foot U320 fits in most of the same spaces as did our shorter one, and in terms of maneuverability I notice very little difference between the smaller tour coach and our motorhome.
For us, "size" isn't nearly as important as are storage and livability, and so we didn't go into the selection process with some pre-selected must-be-a-certain-length criterion.
Very informative information! Interesting way to look at it. 40 with tag gives up basement storage for the tag, but moving the rear axle forward vs non tag makes it turn like a 34-36.
Choices, great to have them :-)
Photo is of our 40 footer in a "campground" in Idaho. We stay off the interstates as much as we can. Yes a forty foot coach with a Jeep Liberty is limited when compared to a 25' anything, but we still manage to get off the beaten path.
Roland
I noticed some more pictures of the Realm FS6 on MHS website. I dont know if they have been there or they just posted them. Looks interesting.
#8814 - 2015 Foretravel Realm FS6 Luxury Villa 1 for sale in Alvarado TX (http://www.mhsrv.com/2015-foretravel-realm-fs6-luxury-villa-1-new-diesel-pusher-tx-i1208392)
Mark
I heard that there was a new Realm on the Foretravel production line tour a couple of weeks ago.
Waiting on James to call me to help with my air issue while he, understandably, works an IH broken down in Canada. Right now, having multiple Spartan locations for support would be really helpful.
I was at FT as the calls came in for James. Three of them in 5 mins and I heard he has three people taking messages. Wow, he seems very busy right now. Hope you get your call back soon. The lady who was writing one in the computer for James said a few were from people out on the road. I do not know if it was your message though.
I bet Mondays in the summer are bad for him. Good reason for me to take a nap though... Maybe Karen will have fixed the leak while I'm asleep. :0)
My kind of spot. :) Where in Idaho was this? (We live in Boise.)
I think there are a lot of reasons why my wife does not want to go over the 35-36 foot length, and I am likely not doing her concerns/arguments justice. some of it may be a lack of knowledge on both of our parts. Maybe I'll talk to her to see if I can get a better understanding of her concerns.
Low mile 05 36' U270 just went up on MOT site. No pics yet though.
Walt - why not have her sign up on the forum herself so she can ask questions and get to know all of us
crazy Foretravel fans and more about the coaches? She just needs an e-mail address that's different than yours.
Good idea! I'll suggest it to her.
38ft. works great for us.
ditto here
We see little or no gain in space in adding two feet to the length. Also, my automobile driver's license works fine on a 38 footer in California, but not if over 40 feet. Also some roads are restricted and 40+ cannot use them legally.
That is something else to consider. I saw YouTube video on a coach for sale in which the salesman mentioned that the coach was actually 39-feet, 11 inches and would not require a special license to drive because it was under 40-feet. This was an Oregon dealer, I believe.
It depends on your state licensing authority. For example Texas bases it on weight, not length.
This was off the National Forest Couer D'alene river road NW of Kit Price National Forest park.
Roland
Just to make life interesting, your drivers license issued in your home state is good everywhere and for the same equipment exactly the same as in your home state. Not so for your equipment, what is legal to operate in one state may not be legal in another state. Length, weight, width limits vary state by state and road by road.
Since I live in California and spend most of my time here, I like keeping the length at or below 40'. This is good for my license and legal on all but a few posted roads. Nobody cares anymore that our 102" wide rigs are only legal on the interstates. And I know my axle weights are legal here, but not everywhere.
The only time I wish for a shorter RV is when passing a nice state park with a 30' hard limit.
Steel is my background, and I've seen enough framing to span coast to coast. The new Spartan K3 GT frame is superior to any frame that one could purchase in the market today. To my knowledge, the only other RV to use the K3 GT will be the 2015 King Aire. A welded Box Frame with a steering tag axle will put these two Coaches in a category of their own, at least for the short hall.
all good wishes!