I need to replace my 3 coach batteries. They are Optima red tops.
When I asked about them at O'reilly's Auto Parts both counter sales people yelled in chorus "JUNK"!
They said that no battery they sell is returned more than the Optima. They also said that they USED to be great but now are not worth the money.
The warranty has been cut to 3 years and there is no longer a pro-rated period after that as was before.
I researched on the internet and read MANY negative reviews of the new manufactured Optima. Many people complained that the batteries fail and that getting warranty replacements can be a challenge.
I read that Amazon has a good price on them but if you need to return you must return through Amazon. Replacement on the road can be a problem.
It all sounds like a lot of effort to deal with when another battery would probably work just as well for much less money.
I have 4-6V 145 house batteries so running wet cell chassis battery's would not be a problem for the charging system. The biggest headache would be remaking the chassis battery wiring hook-ups.
What have the members here experienced with the new manufactured Optima batteries?
Lon,dont know about "new ones" I have some 2 year old ones running in my coach, and some generator sets at work with no problems. As far as changing to lead acid group 31's are not a bad choice (if they fit your battery box) they can be had almost anywhere.However if yours is like mine you would have to modify the battery box to get 3 group 31's in. As far as what the counter guys at auto parts stores say, welll, most of them don't have a clue about how a battery works. I think sometimes a lot of folks expect magic out of batterys. I'll bet well over 1/2 of the returned ones are not bad, just simply dead from other causes poor connections,bad cables, other chargeing system problems, the parts guys have no control over what the customer does once the battery leaves the store.
I replaced my 3 start batteries this past winter with yellow tops. So far no problems with them. David
Make 4 new separate short battery cables with lug ends and use 3 pairs of these battery terminals, and you can use 3 batteries of your choice.
Amazon.com: NOCO TZKIT3 Lead-Free Military Grade Zinc Battery Terminal Kit: (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DNU3MIG/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UT) F8&tag=foreforums-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957
We have 3 Optima red top 1,000 amp start batteries and they work fine. Purchased inexpensive at Sam's Club, who handles warranties. We also use the military-style battery terminals on all of our house & start batteries, with a few spares in the spare-parts box.
Three years ago I bought an Optima Yellow Top battery for the toad (Henry). That's all it lasted...the three year warranty. I still have Optima Red Top for the motorhome. These were installed in March 2012. We'll have to wait and see if they last the 8 years the old set of Optimas did.
Opinions, my battery supplier laughs when asked about the Optima line, saying they are great profit, way over priced & no better that a quality equal size. So I have stayed clear of them. I depend on this supplier for nearly 30 years, we purchase many batteries a month and have enjoyed great quality & pricibg, the less than 1 every 500 battery warranty is never an issue, no question.
Dave,
That's why I refuse to spend more than $100 each for our start batteries. The Autozone Duralasts do exactly that, LAST. Use them in all vehicles and the current crop in the U300 have gone over 4 years now and still spin the Detroit like a top in winter. Too many negative posts on other forums about Optimas. I almost never go with the crowd. What's the old adage.............?
Pierce
Guy who sold me Lifeline AGM house batteries recommended Odyssey for starting. He does not sell Odyssey. He seemed to be a credible source of information about batteries.
I bought two Red Tops for our coach four years ago. One went bad. I think it was bad for a long time, but I was not bright enough to check it before the warranty expired. Remaining Red Top tested good with the "el cheapo" tester that identified the bad battery. Replaced the bad Red Top with another, and starts have been much better.
I had an (obviously very old) RedTop go bad earlier this month and replaced it with another RedTop. It was the rear battery in a 2-battery starting bank. I expect a new RedTop from Amazon tomorrow. We'll see how they work. One thing is that Optima has a special deal if you buy one of their batteries between April 1 and April 30, 2014.
The second battery in the starting bank tested good but somewhat low so I'm donating that to the DW's hotdog cart project. :)
Craig
When the coach was 5 years old, one of the three Optimas died. I replaced it. At ten years, all three went bad (or maybe one or two, who knows), so I replaced them again. Right now they are going strong.
I think I will go with the Exide NASCAR Extreme at Menards about $90 and a 40 month full replacement or a Cosco about the same price and always a great return policy for 3 years+.
I will buy the Military connectors and run heavy welding cable between them.
I just replaced my start batteries. I went back with Yellow tops mostly because I did not want any replacement challenges while doing an on the road replacement. I called Optima customer service and asked about using yellow or red and they recommended yellow (which are there deep cycle) over the red (which are start batt.) They said that unless they are used daily or at least a couple times a week the yellow would be better. They said so in most RV instalalations go with yellow. He also said if there is a trickle charger the red would work well. Amazon had them for 177.00 with free shipping and no tax. and no core charge. I called Auto Zone and they price matched. I think I spent a little more there considering tax and a core charge (I kept 2 that tested ok) but I wanted to get it done while we where on the road.
I have three red top in my coach. They were there when I purchased the coach. I may need to see the manufacture date to see how old they are but they have performed great so far. Now when in storage I always put on the trickle charger to keep them fully charged at all times. At replacement time I will look at all brands due to the poor reviews of these batteries. DAN
The only experience I need is all those negative reviews! It seems that Optima had a good product when it was made in the USA, and then they moved the production line to Mexico. They cheapened their product.
Pat,
Don't think Mexico itself had much to do with quality control. Probably a combination of other cutbacks, greed from the shareholders, etc. Nissan, Ford, VW and others all have plants in Mexico without sacrificing quality. Optima batteries are good batteries but may not be quite what they once were. To me, the ability to start the coach winter after winter with original cranking speed and without failure is the prerequisite, not a brand name. Many brand names get big league recognition because of Don Draper, Peggy and the fool, Pete. Consumer Report's frequency of repair guide and thousands of forums are excellent sources for judging the quality of most any product.
Pierce
I have personally experienced Optima yellow tops failing prematurely twice in cars that sat for a month or two (no trickle charge available). I bought them specifically because they were supposed to be able to sit for long periods with little self discharge. I blamed myself, but felt I was sold a bill of goods considering how pricey they were. Our chassis batteries are in need of replacement and I am looking at other options, but I want to stay with AGM's. I believe ours are group 34's and we have just two. I want to put in three, so I have to modify the cables (any shortcuts, tips, suggestions, links??? ;D ). I am considering these Diehards because of the ease of obtaining warranty service. One thing that has puzzled me about the design of the Optima's is the Spiral plate technology. It seems to me that spiral plates are going to have less energy density than flat plates in the same volume of space... Anyway, here is a link to the Diehard Platinum Marine Group 34 batteries. Sears.com (http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-marine-battery-group-size-34m-price/p-02850134000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2)
Similar price as the Optima yellow tops...
Opinions?
Don
Consumer Reports gives high marks overall to Interstate, Everstart (WalMart/Sams Club) Kirkland (Costco) Duralast (Autozone). You can always get a bad example or you can damage a battery by bad charging regimes. I think that most important after a reliable brand and capacity* is the availability of warranty replacement. Check carefully before you buy. National retailers can be replaced most anywhere. Buy at a small place (like my Optimas) and you may only be able to claim warranty where you purchased it!
For starting batteries the CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) is important, higher the better.
For house batteries it's reserve capacity, higher the better.
There have been many discussions of best construction IE flooded cell, gel cell, AGM and so on on the Forum.
Keith
Don,
Consider a couple of group 31 batteries. They are a bit larger and very heavy, a good sign for battery construction and longevity. Taller usually means more distance between the bottom of the plates and the floor of the battery case. As the batteries age, some plate material will start accumulating on the bottom until it makes contact with the plates, shorting out the battery.
We have three engine batteries only because it's a 9 liter engine vs 8.3 for the Cummins and added to it is the fact we have to use straight SAE 40 oil in our engines. Two batteries cut the chance of failure vs a bank of three. Nothing wrong with Diehard or Autozone or.... Johnson Controls batteries have many names on the case plus an excellent reputation. Sure is important to have a lot of dealers around the country to replace on warranty. Mexico now has Autozone stores everywhere.
For a list on batteries made by Johnson Controls, go to: Want to know who made your battery? this may help. (http://www.passatworld.com/forums/68-b5-garage/332722-want-know-who-made-your-battery-may-help.html)
Important to read forums on the different types of batteries. Many will work fine and give a long life but flatten them once and they are finished. With an RV used only part time, it's easy for something to happen that allows the batteries to discharge. Can be a bad mistake if they won't come back.
Just read Keith's post as I was trying to post the above. All the batteries he lists are Johnson Controls batteries.
Pierce
Don,
To reduce the load on the cables, it's good practice to add an extra ground cable to your starting batteries. A welding shop is a good source as they will sell it by the foot. Welding cable has much finer strands and will bend much more easily but will need support on a run of any length as the have a tendency to sag a bit. Would just go from the battery to the closest ground point you can find like the frame. I solder the lugs rather than crimping. Frame to engine is also another possibility for an extra ground.
Pierce
I was very pleased with the cables I had made on Ebay from genuinedeals but they don't have anything larger than 2/0 right now.
marine wire, boat cable items in marine electrical store on eBay! (http://stores.ebay.com/Genuinedealz/_i.html_armrs=1&_from=&_fsub=672776019&_ipg=&_mPrRngCbx=1&_sop=1&_udhi=&_udlo=)
Gregs Marine is another seller who has the sizes we would need though.
4 0 AWG Custom Cables Ready to Install Made with Tinned Marine Battery Cable | (http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-0-AWG-Custom-Cables-Ready-to-Install-Made-with-Tinned-Marine-Battery-Cable-/290774665400?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item43b38548b8)
Extra ground sounds like a good idea... it looks like the space for my batteries was built with the idea that it would have three, But they just put two in the U270's. It also looks like it would take a single 8D size battery which might be a better idea than three small ones. Not to mention A bit extra reserve capacity. I know some of the coaches came with an 8D starting battery. We are using our coach all the time, but frequently will spend three weeks in one place, particularly while I am working on projects. Still deciding which way to go on this... I like the idea of simplified cabling with a single 8D battery, the cost would be close to three of the smaller AGM starting batteries.
Don
About three years ago, I bought an Optima battery for my Jeep, one for my pickup and one for my work car. The one in the Jeep completely died at 13 months. The pro-rated cost of a new one under warranty was about what had paid for the new one. The one in the pickup completely died in a rural area. Bought a new battery and kept the Optima. The Optima in my work car completely died out of state. Bought a new Sears battery and kept the dead Optima. The second Optima in my Jeep completely died at 12 months. I took the three batteries back to the dealer where I bought them. They called Optima and were told That I was out of luck.
I still have the Jeep with the replacement battery. I still have the pickup with the replacement battery and 260,000 miles. I drove the work car 180,000 miles and the replacement battery and sold it.
My crew drives the pickup 100,000 miles a year, work cars 100,000 a year. The Jeep is my toad. In 40 years I have had very good luck with batteries until I bought Optimas. With this track record, I never would put Optimas in my motorhome.
I replace the three original Optima Yellow top batteries at 10 years with the same thing based on James T's suggestion. They seem to work fine, I use the boost switch just to get past that first turn or two easier. Some have gone to a geared starter motor, some wire directly to the starter, others suggest three sets of equal length cables on to each battery. Putting them pi parallel as they come from the factory doesn't necessarily mean the all work equally. Maybe one should rotate the batteries front to rear once a year.
Make sure your connections are tight and put that on your regular frequent maintenance checks.
OBTW all three of my original batteries held 80% charge in my shop over the winter. They run a 120v, 1500 watt pure sine wave motor generator all day long on a single charge using my electric chain saw out in the woods. Two of my original 8D MK batteries (all three replaced with Lifelines) are in pretty good shape as well.
Get a good battery minder charger for your yellow tops (there is a constant parasitic load on them). I keep the coach plugged most of the time.
Roger
I put in two Optima red tops in 08, and they were OK for about a year. Then wouldn't turn the engine over without the boost sw on.
Lived with that for several years, then replaced the start batteries with one Deka 8A8D AGM when we replaced the coach batteries (two Deka 8A8D's) last year Now we have no more starting problems and no need for boost.
I am not a battery expert or any where near it . I was a boat dealer for 27 years . I bought a lot of batteries as a result of lt . My numbers reached well over 600 a year . My battery connection supplier was East Penn , out of Richmond , Va. One year we bought a group of Optimas . Had way too many grumpy customers , and my supplier was terrible who stuck me on the warranty side . Back to East Penn and end of that mess . My think was , "they cost more , they got to be better" well " not so in my case . My guess is boats sit too long , but in a way a bit like our coaches . My take is they are not worth the extra cost. Brad Metzger
I had a
After reading the above posts, I sense that many owners use the boost switch to help the start batteries to make the initial start of the day. Before adding batteries or using the boost switch, it may be worth checking all battery terminal connections as well as possibly adding an additional ground cable. On the other hand, we had one 8D on each side of our fire trucks to start the Detroit 8V-71s. In colder weather, we sometimes got a starter hesitation when responding during the night. It was then that we starting turning the battery switch to "both" as soon as we opened the cab door and climbed in.
If you notice ANY difference in starter speed using the engine batteries vs engine batteries plus house batteries via the boost switch, there is something wrong in the engine starting system. Older batteries, not enough capacity, high resistance at cable connections, defective starter motor, etc are all suspects.
We had a block heater failure in Yellowstone with the temps in the high teens. The three engine batteries took several tries and a huge cloud of gray smoke to finally get it going but starter cranking speed was never a problem. I even melted a battery terminal and had to use a vice grip on that battery (have since installed HD terminals) and was sure glad when it did reluctantly start.
An easy way to figure out if your starting system is up to speed is to put a digital voltmeter on the starter solenoid when the morning is cold. Below is a good site with a work sheet for engine size, oil, temp, etc for starting diesels and will show if your battery capacity is enough and starter system is healthy. Their battery model will have to be cross referenced to equate with conventional starting batteries but gives excellent insight into all the starting factors. Note the factor between different grades/viscosity of oils.
Or you can just check the solenoid voltage while cranking with voltages normally in the 10V range.
http://www.allnesales.com/hopp-FNCEH.pdf (http://www.allnesales.com/hopp-FNCEH.pdf)
Pierce
I went with 3 - Costco group 34, 770 CCA wet cells. 36 month full replacement and 100 month pro rated after that. About $ 82.99 each. Can't beat it with a stick!
I didn't have to alter the 3 wire battery harness that was fitted to the Optima's that were installed previously. I do have to change the hold down bracket. The bracket covers the battery caps. I can make one that fits between the caps so battery cell inspection will not be a problem.
Battery access for the engine battery's is easy on my coach so inspection will not be a problem. If the battery's were harder to service I would have gone with the AGM battery's.
Thanks for all the good advice.
Johnson Controls makes yours as well as ours. Less than $300 four years ago for us so about $70/yr for three batteries so far. Still cranks as fast as ever in winter and expect they will go at least another four years. Final cost should be under $30 a year for three when they have to be replaced. "Can't beat it with a stick" is right on.
Pierce
I removed perfectly good group 31's flooded cell batteries from my coach to change to the red top optima's that I understand were in my coach new. Time will tell. Wanted hopefully ten year batteries and less maintenance from the out gassing. After long years in the Rv biz playing with charging systems issues was a reoccurring theme. Less problems turned out to be more important to me than the dollars.