Noticed yesterday afternoon that our refer was running on LP not VAC while plugged in to 50 amp and the Power Line Monitor was showing 123 & 00. Reset the Breaker #3 on the Main and still the same. Went to bed and woke up at 2AM and spent some time on this Fofum. By using our Search function that others have had to replace that breaker which solved the problem.
Anything else I could check?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Might have lost one leg in the park, or the supply pole? Check the pole box with your meter, before you begin to believe you have a coach problem. Then maybe check your cord ends.
I had a loose connection for one line under the bed last time. Also check the pole in the park.
Sorry - but should have included that we have a Progressive on the pedestal. It shows power to both legs.
Scott - was breaker #3 tripped or did you just try to reset it in case it was the problem?
If tripped, #3 on our coach is fridge, freezer, 1 side of powerline monitor, and would be central vac if we had it. Check the duplex outlets for fridge and freezer (behind exterior fridge panel) and make sure nothing is odd there.
Look to see what else is powered on that leg - in ours the schematics show it's breakers 4, 6, 7, 12 and 14, yours may be different. See if any of those other circuits have power to help determine if it's just circuit 3 or if it's the entire power leg.
Hi Michelle - Was reading your posts at 2:30 AM this morning. Thanks for your response.
I noticed that the line Monitor was reading 00 on Line #2 and also that the fridge was running on LP so I found the breaker and reset it. It was not tripped.
Leg #1: 3 - Refer, vacuum (we don't have),Freezed (we don't have), Power Watch? - I presume it means Line Monitor which is printed on the Breaker Label.
7 - Hot water disp. (we don't have)
9 - Engine Heater - light turns on when switch is pushed up.
11 - Blank
Took off outside panel of fridge and both plugs are in place.
Thoughts?
Scott -- have you metered the duplex outlets that the fridge is plugged into (or plugged a 110Vac lamp into them) to see if there is power to those outlets?
You should also have one of the roof airs on Leg 1. Double check which one (or make sure they both work - just turning on to "Fan" should be sufficient). Don't assume breakers on the left are on leg 1 and breakers on the right are leg 2. In our coach they aren't - have to look at the schematics to see which is which (look for lines from the breaker to little circles which show the "connections") - you can see this in the little "Breaker Box" drawing at the upper right of the first page, I believe (A2700.23)
eta I just noticed the load boxes shown on the main part of that drawing are also conveniently listed in 2 columns to show the 2 legs to help identify what is on each leg; left column is leg 1, right column leg 2
Replaced the breaker. Still no vac to refer or to line monitor. Got the voltmeter out and pulled the outside refer cover and checked the TWO outlets to the left. The top outlet has power, the bottom outlet does not. Pulled the plugs and put the top plug into the bottom outlet and voila the refer now has vac.
Still no Line #2 reading on the Power monitor.
Rear A/c not working.
Have found: A-2700.18 & A-2700.07. Do not have A2700.23. A-2700.18 & A2700.23 appear to be the same docs. and are identical.
Have no power at breaker #3 - Refer and Line Monitor. Have Power at Breaker # 4 - Roof as/c rear.
I am looking for a Diagram showing outlets and other 110vac elements but it is not in my Owners Manual.
The top outlet in the outside refer area and the Line monitor must be connected. Would like to see upstream.
Scott - that second outlet is likely on one of the circuits coming off the inverter (duplex box is usually a different color). Be careful leaving the fridge plugged into it if you aren't on shore power for long periods of time if you're running the inverter as it will be a strain on the house batteries. I believe the inverted circuits are also connected to Leg 2, the working leg of your power.
OK, that would be on a separate circuit so it's not just the one serviced by breaker 3, but also the one for the rear A/C. Likely a power leg problem somewhere between the Progressive box (since you mentioned it showed power on both legs) and the distribution from the main.
Have you tried flipping the 50 amp main breakers in the primary circuit box at the foot of the bed on and off?
Oh, and one of our Leg 1 items is the AquaHot. If your L1 main breaker is tripped or trips make sure the AH is shut off in case it's somehow trying to pull too much power. Our breaker for the AH is #6.
I used a multimeter and got readings for all breakers in the box and produced an excel spread sheet that identifies: box location, description and amps produced. It appears that our box layout are the same.
It appears that we have no power into the top Main Red Wire Circuit Breaker.
Note: Front a/c works, charger works.
I would guess that all breakers with zero/near zero readings come from the Red Wire Main Breaker Line 2 and the others with readings of 121 come from the Main Breaker Blue Wire Line 1?
However, our charger and front a/c work and our rear a/c does not. Not sure about Aqua hot. I have noticed that the vac was weak or non existant.
If we forget about what breakers are and are not not working - where does the Red Wire Main Breaker feed come from?
Update: Just turned on generator and all systems go. I guess this means that I have a problem between the shore line and the breaker box. I guess I knew that. I guess I will have to follow the wires and find the problem.
Must I pull the electrical cord reel from the bay to check for power?
I have A-2700.20 - 110V Relay System Wiring.
Scott,
I'm not sure what transfer switch you have in a 2002 (the '03 has a Maverick with an Intermatic surge protector on it that the shore power goes through as it goes into the transfer switch; pretty sure the '02s don't have that).
I'm thinking if you are careful there should be a way to check power going into the transfer switch - if not both legs there then you can trace back to the shoreline cord/plug. If you do have power going into the transfer switch it could be within the transfer switch.
If your '02 is like our '03 the transfer switch is on the back wall of one of your streetside bays.
Another 2002 owner might be able to help with this, and if you see this before end of business today you might be able to still reach James Triana at the factory - your build number will help him.
One other thing to check, just in case for some reason the Progressive unit went bad, what happens if you plug in without it?
Michelle - once again you have saved our bacon.
Well I just pulled the electrical cable reel to check connections and saw that it is rivited shut so I was going to do a search for the reel and I saw your latest post.
Well once again I have over looked the obvious and with the PT50C disconnected we now have all things working, I think. Power both on line 1 and 2. Will replug refer into original outlets. Am I a dimwit or what. :-[ :-[ :-[
What would I ever do without you. :D
Jeeesch.
Scott,
Progressive Industries has a history of being VERY customer-oriented. I suggest you shoot them an e-mail and see what they say about what could have gone wrong with your PT50C. I don't think they are rebuildable put perhaps you can get some credit towards a replacement if you're out of warranty.
Glad you found the problem ^.^d
Thanks Michelle - For sticking with me on this and again providing the solution.
I have contacted Progressive and left them a VM. I heard back from them and we will ship to the factory and they will rebuild/replace at no charge.
I again get the Dufuss award.
Scott
Sorry - you don't qualify. The Dufuss award is reserved for those who don't ask questions ;)
You are tooooooooooo kind. ;D
I guess this is a good time NOT to have a hard wired EMS
Since I try hard NOT to be up and on the Internet at 2:30 in the morning, I read the posts at 0745 instead. The symptoms kept making me suspect that the issue was either outside the coach or in the cable to the coach. The EMS itself would have been way down on my list, too. The simple fact that the EMS kept telling you that both legs had voltage but no current would have made it the last thing.
Glad I have a pedestal-mounted EMS 50, too, now. The hard-wired model would have treated the generator input the same as the park input and muddied the waters even more.
But it does sound to me like you went down the logic diagram the right way. Michelle just beat you to the punch.
Nice work. One of the best threads, ever.
Craig
Just another example of how valuable this Forum is. :)
RE: Glad I have a pedestal-mounted EMS 50, too, now. The hard-wired model would have treated the generator input the same as the park input and muddied the waters even more.
A hard wired EMS before the transfer switch would not treat the generator the same, and would offer the same protection as a pedestal model.
Carl & Scott
This was a very interesting thread as I am planning on getting a Progressive Power Line Monitor in the near future.
Now I am wondering if your on board monitor can be bypassed and keep getting power while it is off for repairs. I don't know exactly how they are installed so I am curious.
I plan on letting FOT or MOT install one for me.
Thanks for any thought on the subject.
Yes... but then you would not get protection from faults in the generator which seems to me to be one of the major reasons for having a hard-wired EMS (that is: to protect from both pedestal and generator faults). So if I had installed a hard-wired EMS I would have put it after the transfer switch.
Craig
roadrunner - I plugged the main power umbilical cord directly into the pedestal. No real power interruption. The portable model plugs into the pedestal and the coach power cord plugs into the Progressive. re: the Power Line Monitor - it only monitors the line voltage. I do not think that by-passing would would help.
I don't know which is better - hardwired or portable. Ours came with the coach and that is what we have.
Progressive called yesterday and they are replacing the returned box with a new one.
The "portable" models simply plug into the pedestal and then you plug your cable into the EMS. I have even used my 50A units on 30-Amp systems by virtue of an adapter. (But at least one time this failed... the EMS did not work with an adapter on a 30-A circuit; but the pedestal supplied reasonable power when I plugged into it directly (with some trepidation).)
The hard-wired models are wired into the coach's electrical system - either before the transfer switch (in which case the EMS does not protect the coach from a generator issue) or after the transfer switch. They can be bypassed but you would have to know what you're doing. If it were me, I would make the bypass connections when I uninstalled the unit for return and repair.
I bought the portable unit because I was going to be using the coach and had enough projects so it just seemed to be simpler. As far as I can tell it's worked fine but since I have to get up and go out to the pedestal and look at the LCD readout to see if there have been errors I have to admit that I don't really know if it's actually protected me and the errors have cleared when we moved on. The hard-wired units are easier to monitor for lazy guys like me. :D
Also, the hard-wired units automatically work on 30-Amp circuits (and, presumably, 20-Amp circuits) as long as you can get an appropriate adapter for the plugs.
The hard-wired models can also be installed so they monitor the generator's output and that is a plus, I think. Heck, they can probably be wired to monitor inverter output if that's a concern.
The chances of theft of the portable unit are also a little bit of a concern. The device does have a metal tag that would allow you to use a bicycle cable to lock it to a pedestal but that would hinge on having a pedestal installation that would be appropriate. And it's not like cable-locks really stop a determined bike thief, after all. The hard-wired unit would eliminate that concern.
So... if someone steals my portable EMS 50 then I'm going to install a hard-wired unit. But I hope no one steals my portable unit.
Craig
Craig:. I also have the Progressive portable and use at either 30 or 50 amp circuits. Made to use on either or even 120 volts with adapters. Just remember to operate items on your coach for the amount of power you have coming in. 120 is just for no air or micro. 30 is one ac and 50 both ac and micro.
It is a great unit and keeps you protected against power surges or lack of enough power. Also cks your polarity. DAN
My bad, I didn't read your previous post very well Scott, old age getting to me. I thought you had an installed on board Progressive system. Still was a very good thread, made me think more about what kind to get. I was sold on the on board type but am leaning toward the pedestal type now. I like the price of the pedestal type and taking it offline if you have any problems. I don't worry too much about someone steeling it, never have lost anything at a camp ground from theft. Lost a few things from stupidity but not theft.
I bet Progressive will treat you well, they have a good record.
Craig
Thanks for the explanation of the varies systems. Good to here from someone that has experience with the pedestal type.
You can buy a lock that locks you power cord and the portable unit together. I have the lock, but have not felt the need to use it, may regret that someday.
We prefer the hard wired, but another portable EMS alternative is to use a long 50-amp extension cable in campground pedistal with the female end reaching the INSIDE of a lockable compartment. Plug the EMS into the extension cable and plug coach shore cable into the portable EMS. Compartment could be electrical, engine or any other compartment.
A short cable could be made with a 50-amp round female plug and a male 50-amp Lowe's range-top cable if desired. This arrangement will also secure a $500 Hughes Autoformer. We made one recently with the following type of purchases:
Amazon.com: Conntek 14222 RV 1.5-Foot Pigtail Adapter Power Cord 15 Amp Male (http://www.amazon.com/Conntek-14222-1-5-Foot-Pigtail-Connector/dp/B002CCLFUI) /ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1399663734&sr=8-12&keywords=50+amp+rv+adapter
Amazon.com: Coleman Cable 09044 6/2 and 8/2-Gauge SRDT 50-Amp Range Power Supply (http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-2-Gauge-50-Amp-Supply/dp/B002RL9JAW)