Hello all!!! We are new here and to the brand, however we have been full timing for many years.
We are at the stage of choosing between a 1999 U270 and a U320, both '40. and rather similar .
Regretfully we have not been able to find some specific info and hope you may know.
Are there any frame or body differences between the 2 models. Construction that is, besides the engine, tranny, power, gen size etc... or are the bodies and frame identical.
What are the actual dimms. HxWxL, for eg. our present coach is called a '40 but in reality it is '41 9".
Is the rear end ratio difference enough by itself to choose one over the other.
This stage of the process is very consuming, and for us ignorance is scary !!!
Thank all, and hope to soon join you as Foretravel owners!
Tony and Lora
Try beamalarm web site to start
WELCOME
As Tim suggested beamalarm.com is a site by a long term foretravel owner and other contributions from the forum dedicated to the technical specifications from the factory and the experiences, fixes, modification and remodels of our beloved coaches.
Ask any questions you will have many shared real life stories. ^.^d
Barry's site has a lot of specification info, but I don't see the answers that Tony and Lora are looking for - actual dimensions. Could be why they're asking here (it sounds like they've already researched enough to know there are drivetrain differences between the U270 and U320).
Does anyone have a 1999 original brochure with that info? I know for our '03 the brochure shows height and width (but not true length). Regarding chassis differences - did all models use the same shocks in 1999? What about ducted house HVAC (I seem to recall there may have been some differences there in some years)?
Michelle
Thank you !!! I went through the site but did not find the info , perhaps I should write and ask him... or hope someone has the brochures as you say Michelle, yes we are aware of the engine, xmssn etc... but for the rest so far, no luck...
Tony
Welcome to the forum.
Our 1993 Foretravel Grand Villa may not be representative but it is actually 35' 7" long; even though it is labeled a "36". Ours is the only FT we've owned and, frankly, we haven't even seen all that many of them. They are somewhat rare in the Pacific Northwest where we live.
Craig
In case you haven't come across the specification info, here is the link:
Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs)
Whether there are differences among the models re frame and body comes up from time to time with no definitive answer. Personally, I believe they are identical. Anyhow, you could call Foretravel and ask. The technical expert is James Triana and you can reach him at 936-564-8367 (select technical assistance). He's hard to get hold of but will return your call. Good luck.
jor
WEIGHT RATINGS AND CAPACITIES
Available lengths .................................. 38', 40', 42'
Exterior height ............................................ 11' 6 1⁄2"
Exterior width ................................................... 8' 6"
On our 2003, U320, 38', actual diminsions are as stated hin the specifications. I agree with jor, contacting the factory may be your best bet. Good luck and welcome!
Bill
Welcome to the forum! As you will be able to tell from the beamalarm site, the 270 is the base model and the 320 is the deluxe model. The 295 fits between them. As I understand Foretravel's construction, there is no difference between a 270 body and a 320 body. There is a difference in engines, and obviously there will be differences in amenities.
As for choosing one over the other, I would say that the maintenance history would be the most important thing. If both are similar, then the choice is yours.
Welcome.
One thing you will find is that each Foretravel is unique. Besides the factory options and custom variances owners like to add and remodel. If all things are equal I would choose the 320. Maintenance history is important and you should factor in tire replacement if needed. Foretravels have a different method of construction so unless you feel competent yourself I would have someone like Brett Wolfe et al inspect the coach. You do not say where you are located but it maybe that an owner is close by that would assist you. Also there is quite a bit of information and walk throughs on YouTube. Just search on "Foretravel". A you can see from the number of older coaches on here you will be buying a high quality product so take your time and research well and you will have your "Lifetime Coach"
Good luck and maybe we will meet on the road.
Keith
Thank you all for your comments!!!! keep the coming ! you guys are all great !!! we are making progress!! I have a call in to Mr Triana and thanks to your replies we now know actual height, width and body.. kb0zke do you know if the frames, air bags etc... are the same?
Tony
This is a good discussion topic. There are those that believe the 270 is the best choice for full timers. Not sure of the reasoning; maybe some 270 owners will chime in. Good luck.
jor
Jor, thank you!!! well, we fulltime and I hope we receive some comments abt the reasons for the preference for the 270 as a fulltime rig. We would sure appreciate it!!
Tony
Tony & Lora,
U320 coaches of some model years have large Aqua hot heaters and house battery compartments that are located in VERY hard to reach locations between bay compartments. Maintenance access may require empting & removal bay slide tray. And enclosed battery compartment usually runs too warm, reducing battery function or life. Aqua hot unit takes up quite a bit of bay space.
Almost all 270 models don't have Aqua hot and usually have open battery compartments.
Aqua hot units have some advantages, but require more maintenance, maybe more as they get older. Think if this way: There are many good techs that make a living maintaining Aqua hot, but there are no techs that make a living maintaining water heaters or furnaces.
Engines & generators are different on the two models, but the smaller engines on the U270 work just fine for many who own them. Both Cummins engines are computer controlled and pretty maintenance free.
Tony,
In my hunt for my perfect Foretravel, I have done a lot of comparisons between various models and years. I am including an Excel file that compares the 1999 U320 specs vs. the 1999 U270. It was pretty eyeopening for me. The bottom line is that the U320 cost $140,000 more than the U270 according to their MARP's. Most of the basics are the same. Only you can determine whether the "bells and whistles" are important to you.
Hope this helps,
Trent
The U270 has more storage space. By giving up Aqua-Hot and larger generator, one gains about two small storage bays. Also, there are fewer complex systems that can fail or require maintenance.
We have a U295. I wanted to buy a U320, but the U295 came available with several features attractive to us. It was nearby, mostly ready to roll, has a private toilet closet, and had a Jeep attached to the back. It has served us "some timers" well for four years, 46K miles.
Barry, Trent and J.D. thank you for your inputs... Trent the Xcel file is great, thank you ! On the mech aspect we are trying to clear the importance of the issue abt the xhst manifolds and EGR failures on the 8.3 , the M11 does not have an EGR and we have not seen any exhaust issues about it either, however these issues may not amount to anything serious and we hope to hear from present owners from coaches around 1999 abt these potential probs.
Again we thank you all for your assistance and info...
Tony
We have been living in our coach for 13 years and still prefer U270 over U320. We think for us, simpler is better, especially in the long run.
But I really think that whatever model or length one buys, it will continue to be the coach of choice. Since about half of Foretravel's manufactured each of the 1996 to 2000 model years are 40' U320's, there are more of them out there.
U320 has larger transmission, retarder, & different rear axle ratio, but both models have about the same chassis which means same disk brakes, air bags, transmission retarder, frame design. U320 and U295 have fancier interior trim & features.
Barry, how many miles do you have on your engine? both of these units are in the 90's k miles...
I am leaning towards the 270 because of its simplicity and ease of service of the systems, for eg. propane furnace versus Aqua-Hot, I have had them both and as nice as the A-Q is, the furnaces are redundant and easy to service and maintain, even while on the road... but anyway the jury is not out yet...we are still learning...
Thanks!!
Tony
Barry,
You bring up a good point. One of my discoveries in my spreadsheet analysis was how little difference there actually was between the U320 and the U295, depending on which model year. I did not include the U295 in the file I uploaded, because Tony only asked about the U320 vs. U270.
When I finish my book, I will upload it to the file section. It is still a work-in-progress and includes only my targeted models, 1997-2001. It is one thing to read the specs side-by-side (many, many thanks to Barry for his BeamAlarm site information), but much more revealing to see them laid out in a spreadsheet, side-by-side and row-by-row. I also have worksheets that show the changes in the same model year-by-year (that one is much more difficult because Foretravel changed some of the specification categories over the years).
Back to the grindstone!
Trent
Tony,
If the engine has had regular maintenance it will outlast the coach. These units are very reliable with many in commercial service. I would worry about the care the coach has had rather than the mechanicals. The things I would look at above all else are bulkheads, tires, shocks and steering box.
Keith
U270 normally has one propane furnace. U295 normally has two propane furnaces. On the U295, the rear furnace provide heat to the rear of the coach, plus one 2" duct to each of the two service bays. On one trip the front furnace failed due to dauber nests. Redundancy was good. We managed in cold temperatures with an electric heater.
Our Cummins C8.3-325 has about 110K miles. It had about 62K miles when we bought it. Only repair on engine so far since we've owned the coach is repair of one injector line.
Trent, the reason we left out the 295 is that it only has 5k # towing capacity, we had found a beautiful 295 but could only tow5k#, our p/u weighs in at abt 7500#, full size 4x4 crewcab..
J.D. re the furnaces, I just went back and looked at my pix, and the 270 seems to have 2 Suburban type furnaces,on the curb side right above the rear fender and on the street side there is another one above the second bay going from the rear wheel forward, they both appearto be the same size, I am not a fan of Suburban, but with 2 I would feel better.... I guess the plot thickens ... since the spec sheet from beamalarm says only one 34k furnace... oh well, we ARE having fun, right?..!!!
Tony
Had a u-270 and have a u-320, 36 and 40' respectively. Second coach had slide and aqua hot, DW must haves now that we have them. Yes more maintenance.
No bad choice, PM me with phone number if you want to discuss live
Tony, one of those who owns a newer coach would be in a better position than I am to answer your question about the frames, air bags, etc. We own an older coach, a 1993 U300, and our research pointed us more in that direction than the newer Unicoach models. I think that the frames are the same, and the locations for the air bags are pretty much the same, but I suspect that there might be some minor differences from one model to the next.
I believe that the 40 foot yU270's have two furnaces, the 36 and 34 have just one.
Looking at the specs, all models for 1999 have a 10K lb rated receiver hitch. Curious why that particular U295 was only 5K - was is a GCWR issue?
Tony,
Not according to the specs I looked at (from Barry's gorgeous site); all three models for 1999 are rated for 10,000 lbs.
Trent
for us, the worst part about our U-270 was the noise of the furnace fan as it cycled on and off during the night - woke my DW up all the time-
Come to think of it, when we sleep with the AC on, she leaves the fan on low all night - keeps the noise level pretty constant (compressor cycle on and off is less noticeable because fan never quotes making its noise) and keeps the interior temperature more even, so compressor cycles more frequently but for less time, keeping entire bedroom closer to temp selected on thermostat
Don,
I did not see that specified on the spec sheets I accessed, but it easy to believe it might have been an oversight on the spec sheet. 1999 was the first year they made the U270 in 40' (at least according to the spec sheets).
Trent
Ladies and gents, I stand corrected, the unit was a 98 and yes the GVW was 31k and the GCVW was only 36k.
The unit is located in Las Vegas Nv and it was listed I believe in rvtrader, but do not quote me, we have checked many and now we are down to just 2... imagine that!!!!
Tony
The two we are looking at now are both 99 and 270 and 320 respectively, the other one as I said above was a '98 295.
Tony
You will find other then engine and drivetrain the construction is the same. Same air bags same heights and widths. The 270 also had a 150 gallon tank and my 320has 192. Extra battery in the 320 but room to put it in the 270. I have had both and would choose the one with the best deal.
We've full-timed since 2003.
If we didn't have STICKS & BRICKS somewhere then there's another consideration on $$$'s: Namely, what would we spend on lodging, food, etc, if we didn't have a Foretravel?
We could easily spend more per year in STICKS & BRICKS than we do our 1999 U320. Even tho it has an Aqua-hot. Then we add in visiting kids and grand kids in 4 widely seperated locations, and drive there in a Honda and stay in hotels and fly and, and, and ....
I'm just sayin'
Of course, YMMV ...
best, paul
I usually value Barry's comments, but the '99 U320 doesn't have accessibility problems for either the Aqua-Hot or batteries. As you can tell from my coach, I appreciate the all-around plusher details in the U320, but that's a very subjective thing. One item not mentioned so far is carrying capacity. In this vintage it wasn't listed on the data plate. With the amount of customization common in Foretravels, it is important to have any coach weighed before purchase is complete. You didn't specify your intended use aside from your toad, but if you or your DW intend to carry a lot of stuff, check weights carefully.
Wow!!!! You are ALL great!!!! The amount of good info we have received today is amazing... you have no idea how much you have eased our minds and we definitely know that we are on the right path with the right company, meaning all of you as well as the coaches. We are striving to get this finalized next week and start then our new fun project which we will keep you all well informed about. So please keep the comments and suggestions coming!!!! We are all ears!!!!
Brett, thanks for your comments, I was able to abtain a pix of a paper plate in both coaches that list the empty weight, combined weight and gross GVW and GCVW as well as cargo capacity... Are those numbers acceptable in general terms? I realize that any mods would affect the bottom line and weighting is the only way to know for sure, however I hope these numbers are enough for a fair estimate, what do you think?
Thank you,
Tony
RE: Trent, the reason we left out the 295 is that it only has 5k # towing capacity,
I think all Foretravels of these vintages have 10,000 lb towing capability, so maybe the specifications are conservative on that U295. They built all of them about the same with the same frame, hitch & braking design. The limit may be a GVCW limit based on legal liability for new coaches.
But I do have a concern about towing 7,500 lbs up a mountain. You may be happier with 450/500 hp M11 engine with all that weight behind you.
RE: U270 normally has one propane furnace. U295 normally has two propane furnaces.
I thought that floor plan & length more than anything else dictated if there is one or two propane furnaces. Some floor plans do not allow one furnace to be ducted to front and rear of coach.
RE: Barry, how many miles do you have on your engine?
We have 150,000 miles and are using our coach every day for 13 years. Original furnace, new hot water tank, that we installed ourselves. Most heating is with small space heaters. Most hot water is heated with electric heating element. Given a choice, we would not have it any other way. We also don't want a slide.
Thank you Barry, we are leaning more and more towards the U270 due to its simplicity, storage capacity...although sometimes we stray back to the U320.... but I would say we are abt 80/20... also the U270 appears to be in better shape...uummm!!!!!
So it seems there will be a new to us U270 next week...!!!!!
Agn tnx for your comments..!!
Tony
RE: our p/u weighs in at abt 7500#,
I just had a 2nd thought about 7500 lb tow vehicle...
That is a lot of weight to tow up a mountain. You may be happier with the larger 450 hp M11 engine with that much weight behind you.
The furnace cycling already mentioned here drove us crazy long ago.
Temp swings are around 5 degrees with a propane furnace setup if memory serves me and the quieter aqua hot is around two degrees.
DW is very cold/hot sensitive and the separate bath area temp control from the aqua hot is a pleasure she would not ever do without.
Towing large vehicles is easier with the m11 and its bigger 4000 series Allison trans also.
That same power train/ hot water heating system that the u320 has in the 99 is still sold today new by Foretravel I think.
The m11 is a heavy duty engine vs medium duty and was used in lower power ratings in over the road 18 wheelers and is electronic controlled. The computer aftermarket monitoring systems work on the m11/4000 combo.
The final design as it were. Probably more long term valuable on resale?
I know its harder to find from the posts here?
I bought our 320 knowing it was in need of a lot of massaging because of the basic u320 parts.
Worth the time and money to me to drive an old version of a more expensive/recent Foretravel model.
I like the window sills that the 320 has that someone pointed out here also and the villa furniture.
Bob
If we were to full time in colder weather, the Aquahot sure would be nice. Otherwise, the 10 gal. water heater is plenty for most folks as is the propane heat.
Bob, your points are xclnt!!!! and Peter, your thoughts abt winter also... we try to avoid winter and it is not always possible, for example, we were not ready to go until early Dec last and we ended up spending some -10F quality time, and a week to cross half of Kansas due to ice and blowing snow... it was just like home !!!!!!!!####!! who can say that we are not having fun???
I must say, we did ok, no probs and it all worked fine...but it was a close call, BTW these toys do not do very well in the ice... and the 4x4 could not push the coach very well... (lol)
Seriously, we are in discussion mode...!!!! AGAIN!!!!!
We are very grateful to all of you that are helping us with thoughts, ideas and comments... it is wonderful to find a good family!!! thank you!!!!!
Tony & Lora
Hi Tony, welcome to the forum. I have no knowledge of the models you asked about. But you did state you're a full-time RVer. I suggest the KISS principle. Its one thing to trust high-tech a few weeks a year on vacation, but on a permanent basis, I think the simpler the design is, the more reliable it will be, all other parameters being the same. Good luck, see you on the road :)
Fred, thank you! You have the right idea and that is the reason we are having such hard time deciding...both coaches are nice so it becomes a matter of reliability, niceness,? performance and all else to be balanced in as much a cold fact way as possible considering that we are humans!!!! I like to be able to take care of as much as possible... although now I am a bit limited due to lack of facilities for some projects...( engines, xmssns, turbos...) Which is why the advice of people with the hands on experience is so valuable to us, so that we may avoid some of the mistakes we are bound to make. Hopefully when we see the units this week we shall make a decision objectively with the help of the experts.
Tony
Save incredible amounts of time and money and enjoyment and buy the last coach first.....
Bob, we are speechless... what a concept!!!!!! such thoughts must be harnessed prior to their escaping into the realm of mush!!! Bob, we are so impressed that I will from now on start all at the end...We are so taken....our lives have been changed... ALLELU....!!!!
But wait, there is now a minor problem... we are full of it!!!! how do we clean this off????
(lol) thank you, we needed that!!!!
Tony & Lora
I handled cold fine in my 270 but I handle it easier in the 320 with Aquahot. If you are a snowbird the 270 will do just fine. I have FT friends who spend the winter skiing in CO so Aquahot is important to them. Use of the coach drives the decision.
As a sales manager in the high line Rv biz for ten years I learned to tell every prospective customer that exact statement at some point prior to delivery. Versus "step" buying. That way when they came back two years later and I told them in the 80's it was a $100k and their trade in for the new one they now wanted I could mention I told them this would happen.
Few virgins here. Most have spent enough on in between steps to have bought the top of the line new long ago. And enjoyed it from the beginning.
Glad you see the humor in this. Hated buyers without a sense of humor. Walked a few off the lot as it was going to be an ugly experience for both them and me and Foretravel in the long run
The advise was I guess worth exactly what I charged for it to you. 500 high line motorhomes sold later what could I know?
Sorry I offended.
Bob
FWIW, tony has a 4 yr old multi slide SOB with a Hydro-Hot buried in a difficult to get to location. Tows a full size pick with a bunch of tools for his retirement job all over the country but mostly west of Mississippi.
Power and warmth will be important, but his hydro hot bad experiences (multiple $$$$$$$ expensive repairs, partially due to location) have him a bit concerned re aquahot.
There are very few bad Foretravel decisions, some just better than others
Bob, it never offended us in any way, to the contrary we thought it was wonderful and so true, we believe in laughing at ourselves first... it is healthy and it also allows us to think more clearly... after all in the end we have no one but us blame and everybody else to credit !!!
So, please feel free to drop in any comment any time, it will always be welcome... and appreciated...!!!
Look forward to meeting in person some time soon,
Best regards!
Tony & Lora
We started looking at a 34' U270, no slide. We (I) was concerned about towing in the mountains so thought more HP would be good. Electronic engines and transmission by 2001 as I recall. Longer WB was commonly suggested for a better ride. Adding a slide adds weight and more complex systems. It also likely adds resale value. It changes basement access due to additional structure. Floor plans are different w/o slides. We really like the extra room. Interior changes in the U320 in 2001 (ceiling, AC ducting, dash) were appealing. U320 36' was only available in 2001 and 2002. Slides in 2000 versions were much harder to service (especially seals). Bedroom slides in these years cost a side window and cross ventilation for closet space. We wanted the windows.
Best fit for us, floor plan, length, appointments, engine, transmission, slide, budget at the time we were ready to buy (2011) was a 2001 36' U320, single slide.
Aqua hot is very nice.
Are we happy? Absolutely. Problems? A few but within realistic expectations. Would we do it again? Yes! What are we going to change? Headlights and the front steps. MCD front shades. Maybe full body paint ... Someday. Maybe a residential refrigerator ... Someday.
Buy what appeals to you and fits the budget. Don't forget to reserve some for what will need to be done. Get a proper inspection. Eyes wide open ... Go for it!
John, as you know from our chat, the intention here is to escape winter and head for warm blooded country even if late some times... so exposure to the cold will be limited...
As it has been mentioned here the bottom line is going to be condition, livability, gut feeling and lastly we will try to get a fair deal and a reasonable price... after that the fun begins !!!
Regards,
Tony
Sorry about your current aqua hot issues. What I noticed was anything other than hydronic heating dried the air in the coach too much. The lower humidity amplified the actual temperature variations even more.
Sleeping was more difficult. Too hot from the safety over run after the thermostat cuts the gas flow but cannot shut off as the furnace itself is still hot so it runs some more.
On start up the fan comes on first lowering the temperature even more then the heat comes in in case of a propane leak for fire safety I guess.
Safety requires both functions. If this is different in certain years someone please correct me,
Noisier, dryer, wider temp swings, two zone max. No electric component for milder weather.
My unit is dry camped on a 20amp 110v 100' ten gauge ridgid extension cord and with load juggling I am able to use no fuel and heat the coach, wash clothes, run the microwave.
Four zones with the A/H.
I am sure you know about the aqua hot as a current owner just did not know if you had previous non hydronic heated coaches so as to be able to judge what the differences are.
I quit rving and the biz in the mid 90's just when the non propane systems were coming in.
Beaver started with a four zone webasto with adjustable blower fan speeds in 1991.
Very reliable. More hot water than the aqua hot btw. Unit was in the right rear compartment and easy to access.
Obviously if you don't use a furnace much your choices are different. Unlimited hot water got my wife's vote.
Bob, tnx for your note, it is interesting you mention the Webasto in the older Beavers, I had one and other than some minor probs it did rather well...later I had another Beaver with a Hydra... something... that one was not so hot... but bearable... then had a couple of coaches with prop and although not as versatile they were ok and finally came another Beaver and that one drove me nuts!!!!!!!! I dont want to bore you with the gory details but I am sure you have heard horror stories about that certain period and mine had me ready to shoot it!!! Anyway that is all behind now and I try not look back except for reference... as Tim said I do still have a bad taste... Presently I am actually looking forward to a good foundation Foretravel on which I can work, fix and enjoy... a simple unit with intrinsic quality...
We will try to get this settled this week I hope as you know it can be a time consuming project towards the end of the process...
Anyway thank you again for your thoughts and anything else you or anyone else may think of please share it with us, we can use all the help we can get...!!!
Tony & Lora
Yes I had heard of the Monaco/beavers with issues. QC not good. The 91's and 92's were almost flawless. Small lists from new owners.
Glad you are experienced now you can maybe compare the SOB's to your Foretravel.
The older Foretravels some have here have cabinets that are veneer sheets over a frame.
Every piece machined. Looking at my 97 now the joining edges are perfect. No carpet under the cabinets. No gimp molding anywhere.
The beaver cabinets long ago were that nice but not machined. Solid heavy wood.
Foretravel came from dodge 318 chassis with one inch wide drum brake shoes. Had to be lighter then.
Totally agree... those were the days were quality and reliabity meant a lot, particularly in that level coaches... which is why I am now regressing in my old age...(pls note I am older not her...) and hence a Foretravel not newer than 99, (Cummins tells me that was the last year of the good engines...). in 2000 they started to introduce negative changes to their programs, in 05 they really started to derate the engines causing poorer mileage and lesser reliability...
Anyway Bob, keep the info coming, it is greatly appreciated!
I will keep you all posted on our progress...
Tony & Lora
The 99's I think has a bigger dash Air/heating unit and those with the ducted roof air had the run in the ceiling extended farther forward to bring more air to the dash. Our 97 is a little light on cooling in the dash area for severe desert heat. Some have used a 110 volt floor fan to move more air forward. I think the counters got two inches deeper somewhere about there. Maybe not until the slide out units although on the deeper counters.
Read Barry's specs
Bob, for better heat and A/C performance for a long time we have been using a nice thermal curtain between the cab area and the rest of the coach... it also helps with the interior temps when stationary... The install is rather simple and if you ever decide to do it let me know and I will provide you with the info.
Tony
Barry's specs from FT for 2001 U320 shows a 28,000 BTU dash air. The 1999 U320 shows a 22,000 BTU dash air. The 1997 U320 shows 17,200 BTU. Surprisingly, the 2007 Phenix shows 22,500 BTU. Some days I would like 40,000 or more.
When it is cold out and we are driving I have the Aqua Hot on in the cabin, bath and BR. It uses heat from the engine. Works well.
I have thought about a curtain of some sort behind the front seats to trap heat or cool up front. It would have to be see-through to let either of us look back out the side windows for oncoming traffic on the left when we are going down an on ramp or for traffic coming down the on ramp on our right.
Roger
Heat is no problem with the AH. I just turn it on and it keeps the coach nice and toasty with just engine bypass heat. In the summer I have to say that the Dash AC works for a while then the genny comes on.
Our 97 u320 during our current trip on flat ground in the Midwest at 35,500 gvwr and minimal stop and start with no gen and no deisel aqua hot and no head winds went 712 miles on 70.6 gallons at 65mph with the cruise on and trans mode on.
New replacement electronic gas tank sending unit is very accurate. Showed 5/8 of a tank left.
At 60 and no car in would think 11mpg
well folks , I must say that the track and curtain if done tastefully can actually enhance the interior appearance or feel but as always it is a matter of individual taste... one thing is certain, it does work...
One new question; with the new and improved AH, lets say from a 45ºf interior temp, how long does it take to b ring up the coach up to normal, say 70ºf ? As I recall, mine would take forever... to be fair though, I don't think mine was AH , but either Hurricane or Hydra something... anyway...
We just arrived in OKC a bit ago, had dinner, going to shower so I'm not a menace to society and early in the AM we are headed for MOT... and hopefully we will find a coach...!!!
We may have to get in here tomorrow and the next day with questions since as you all know we are totally blank re Foretravels.
We want Mr Wolfe to do our inspection, but he is now out of the country... so if someone out there knows of someone else, we would appreciate the info...
Keep the info coming we need it all!
Best wishes to all...
Tony & Lora
The big AH does a great job. The little one a hydro hot will work but it is smaller. I keep my barn at about 50 and it is up to room temp in about ten mins or less if I have the diesel on. Then again my propane furnace did it in about the same time too.
One other item we need to learn about is this "Aero" resonator or a "straight through" exhaust... could you all please enlighten us on pros, cons etc... the pricing as I have seen here in the forums seems to be reasonable... and from what I have read there is an improvement in performance... !!???
Thanks...
Tony
10 seconds, less if plugged in 110 and element on
The issue is that the old mufflers needed to be replaced and is not made any longer. So many of us put resonators on and a byproduct is less heat and better performance.
If the AquaHot is hot (diesel, 110v or from driving) 45-70° is just a few minutes. Once up to temp, it holds it very close to set point. At the end of a day driving, you have heat and hot water from engine heat. Even if you leave the AH off you will still have almost as hot water in the morning. This always amazes me. If the outside overnight temps are in the 40's, the 110v heater in the AH will provide plenty of heat and hot water. In the 30's, I turn on the diesel.
From a cold start, diesel takes about 20 minutes to full heat. 110v takes a couple hours. With diesel on you have virtually unlimited heat and hot water.
My VMSpc output on total miles and total fuel since new gives me an average of 8.0 MPG. Most miles towing. We drove from CA to MN with no tow after we bought the coach, pretty light wt, and averaged 9.6 at 65. I got nearly 11 in IA with a big tail wind one day. Wind turned 180° the next and I just barely got 7. YMMV. Everyone gets what they get. The goal is to get where you are going.
Roger
Hey Tony,
Sounds like you're intimately familiar with technology (good & bad) & have a realistic perspective towards repair & re-engineering the unreliable...
If you come up with any unique & novel solutions PLEASE post them. I'm rebuilding/restoring an older unit & my typical conundrum is the choice between older "no frills" technology that does work or upgrading to something with nice features based on newer technology that may not be as "abuse tolerant" as I do need.
@ Roger
I thought the AH ran on propane? Or is it able to source heat from 110V, LPG & engine? Can it work as a block heater to aid in cold starting?
Remember peeps, snow is bad!
God told Noah to build a boat. Didn't say nuthin' about skis, snowshoes, a sled or snowmen.
Just sayin'....
AH in Foretravels fueled by diesel. Also has limited 110 heat, and when engine is running uses engine heat.
AH also can pre- heat your engine, plus endless hot water.
Also creates 3 zone plus bay heat.
AH requires about $150 in annual maintenance , uses .5 GPH when burning. Allows longer boondocking in cold weather since a full tank of diesel will last a wet long time in cold weather.
You pay your money and make your choices !
We decided to replace our original muffler with an Aero resonator, even though it was working just fine, with no cracks or any other problems. Figured Aero would not sound much louder, not cost a whole lot and maybe it could be a good change.
We have been towing a 4,200 lb 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee for 10 years and in 2011, changed to a 5,600 lb 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee. We were concerned that the extra weight could be a problem for our coach (with original muffler). Found we were aware the new Jeep was back there, so the extra weight was felt. In 2012 we swapped the original muffler for a 5" Aero AT5050 resonator. With the Aero installed we had back the old feeling of power that we had when towing our older lighter Jeep. We are sure the Aero was a positive upgrade for us. I guess that anything that helps the engine breath in or out easier is a good idea.
Aero is a very popular flow-through resonator and has no glass pack. We figured that 5" would give us the most improvement, even though our turbo has a 4" exhaust pipe. There are no disadvantages that we can see.
Below are several write-ups on Aero changes. The first link is our installation.
Exhaust System Replacement - 1997 U270 (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/exhaust_system_replacement-1997_u270.html)
http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/replacing_the_muffler_with_a_resonator.ht (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/replacing_the_muffler_with_a_resonator.ht) ml
Exhaust System Replacement - 2003 U320 (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/exhaust_system_replacement-2003_u320.html)
Removing Muffler (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/removing_muffler.html)
A boiler setup. Probably has a lot of similarities with a residential boiler. $150 gets you "do the regular service please" or "I need the part pack for an annual service"?
Is it worth buying the filters, nozzle & electrodes to service it yourself?
Or does it require one or more astronomically expensive tools?
Fred, unless there are major issues like fuel pump or elect board problems a basic service kit is not that hard to do if a person has any mechanical skills. Generally, the hardest part is just working on the unit itself.
Richard B
Standard maintenance requires standard tools and a bit of contortion. I will say more contortion then I am capable of.
I've learned to contort. I've bought tools and training.
I've gotten paid for it.
Therefore I am a professional and I am allowed required to fix at home... :D
Many years ago we pulled into a gas station in Western Wisconsin. We were regular campers in that area and knew the older fellow that owned the station. He was a master at the Malapropism. I was trying to get at something when he came out to pump some gas (yes, they used to do that) and he said "You have to be a real extortionist to work on that thing."
When I crawl into the basement to work on any of the things in there it is a contortionist at work. Like John, that is getting harder. Sometimes when I let somebody else do it then extortionist comes to mind.
Everything I can do myself I will try. Every time I do I learn something new.
Roger
When I married a much younger woman some 40 years ago there were some unforseen circumstances (along with the foreseen ones). For instance, I was not thinking about the 13 years between my retirement and hers and how old I would be when she finally was free to retire. I dunno what I was thinking... oh, wait... now I remember what I was thinking. :D
However one unforeseen benefit was that she would remain limber when I was becoming decidedly less limber. Luckily she has always been adventurous and can not only get into the places I can't but now understands pretty much the details of what she is doing. Or at least can understand me when I explain them.
Plus she is a professional bus driver and when I am no longer capable of driving (and she claims that many times I'm there already) I can sit back and relax and let her drive while I navigate. :)
Craig
That is a good option that you have there.
UPDATE : OK folks, we have been here at MOT since Tue eve... the coaches we came to see did not work out, however while here a nice U320 3600 showed up and we just might buy it ! We are in the final stages and hopefully if all goes well we will secure it Mon.
We are learning a lot and people here at MOT as well and in particular a local group of FT owners whom we met through Michael from this forum have been more than outstanding !!! Michael, thank you!!!! Also John S who has advised us on so many questions and who has spent so much time with us and our endless list, a HUGE thank you!!!!!!
Needless to say a great thanks to all of you that have writen here advising us and commenting about your experiences.
As we progress we will post updates and I am sure more questions will pop up...
Tony & Lora
Well, to you who have followed their journey in this quest, you have missed the most important part if you have not met Tony and Lora! What a delightful couple and such experiences that only a few have perhaps even dreamed. Tony has the talent and experiences and learnings of RVs so that he knows a good coach when he finds it. And they did. Great looking coach, should give them many miles. Our next step, after a party or such, is to make an introductory trip to James Stallings and crew next week. MOT is in the meantime busy seeing if they can make the modifications Tony has in mind.
I hope you meet them one day. We are blessed again with Forum visitors, Cheers,
Michael, Jackie, ... we are now all blushed!!!!! thank you!!!! you are all very kind!!!
We are very excited because the coach cdx is xclnt, the.use low, and most important, cared for very well.
Again Michael thank you,
Tony & Lora
Hey wait Tony...I meant to say Lora, not you, is the learned one, a determined student! Our and the others she has met in Nac sincerely appreciate her determination, Hats off to her.
Good night folks,
Michael
OOOOoooopppppssss!!!!!!!!
Good night...!!!
Tony
Michael, thank you for the kind and encouraging words...!!!
(Loras' words typed by her newly appointed personal secretary, Tony)
Lora
well, another quick update... we have settled on a u320 3600... if it proves to be too small we will trade for a 4000 in the near future... this one in general is in xclnt cdx and seems to meet most of our needs so here it goes after a lot of searching...if all goes well we should have it in the next couple of days once mot finishes their work...
as always, we will keep you posted...
Tony & Lora
Congratulations. Enjoy the coach.
Pictures pls
Congrats Tony & Lora.
c u on the road someday.
Another update...! well, Murphy came to visit...so a few probs cropped up... with any luck and if we get him out, we should be on the way in another 10d or ???
Murphy arranged for a leak to show up on the engine heater core up front!!!!
And when I tried the Inverter it would not work... so I checked and it was not connected... when I wired it in, it would not transfer or invert, so it was left with the charger wired direct and no invert.
Well I attacked it and after 2 transistors and a fuse plus 3 dried up capacitors, it now works as it should.
I really hated to do it but I just want to expedite things.
I repaired the power watch box, the passenger seat (stuck out lumbar!) ...the screen door lock sys and the engine cover mechanism, it needed adjust and lube.
I still have to attack the small compressor since it is dead also!
We have yet to test the water system...hope it goes well...(we are getting tired...!!!)
Besides these MINOR ITEMS!!!! all is going well... we love Nacogdoches, the folks here are great and we feel at home...
We will continue the updates....cheering will be appreciated, prayers are welcome !!!!! as we have said before, we need all the help we can get!!
Tony & Lora
todays update:
Well they got the entire front insides removed and got to the heater core, the AH one ok, the engine one, horrible!
they could not locate a new original ( no longer made ) but they located a very similar 8ne new and are having the fittings welded to it and it should be ok. I must say they are doing a very good job...! hopefully we may be able to start moving in this coming week end... we are learning a lot about the coach and must say the construction techniques are very good, allowing for future mods etc...
We are very grateful to Michael and Jackie for their hospitality , assistance, directions and above all their friendship! the same goes about Dan, Randall, John, Jane, Doris and all the other local Ft owners that are making us feel at home!
we will write more about our general experiences in a later post...
from MOT @ NAC...
Tony & Lora
Many of the techs there started at FT in production.
Hi John! well I am impressed, although Murphy struck, so far they have been top notch and pro!..
and again tnx for your assistance! we are enjoying the experience even with Murphy!! and we are looking forward to taking the coach on the road... will give a summary at the end and will post some pix... (as soon as I figure out how)
Tony
At least you found it before you left.
Tony,if you change your signature to show what model coach and year you have,it make's it easier to get the help you need,have a great voyage with your FT.
Thank you Bill ! will do so... when I.started the post we did not have one...after that I simply forgot... agn tnx!
Tony
Well I think I got.it...
Tony, I know where you are coming from, I have sumtimer's, sum time's I remember, most of the time I forget. :))
Bill/Dooris, you say you " know where I am coming from..." well pls let me know where from so that I can figure where am I going to!!! yes you are correct I suffer from " acute selective sumtimerities... however I cant recall how to fix it!!!!
tnx for the push!!!!! I needed that.... whatever it was...
Murphy??? He's an amateur! Time & gravity on the other hand.... Oh look, a butterfly
Well guys, a quick update since I am pooped and need my beauty rest!!!!
The engine heater core in the front was replaced and Fri we finally go the coach and started to move... what a mess!!!! (never thought we had so much stuff!!!) and Sun afternoon Lora noticed a tellrale greenish/bluish oily drip coming out of the front at a fair rate... a quick lookk under the dash showed the familiar flood!!!!- turning off the AH eventually stopped the dripping...
Today after some digging a broken hose was found to be the culprit. They replaced it and now a large fan is trying to help dry off the front...
More details later, the saga continues...
Wow that is a wild saga. I am sure it will be all fixed up before you leave. Hang around long enough though and we will meet there in Nac.
when are guys coming here ???
Tony, do you think there is a relationship between the heater core replacement and the aquahot coolant hose leak? Tech damage or break hose maybe?
Absolutely Barry!!! The hose was pinched with visegrips and such will cut into the hoses... I kept the hose so I can back up my comments...
Anyway, they have been replaced and now a huge blue fan is drying the front end... as you can imagine everythng forward of the front seats was soaked, literally... hopefully tomorrow or the next day it should be ok... and finally move in for the last time!!! Thurs we are to have the coach alignmened at Ft.
We will keep you posted...
What shop did your heater core replacement, Tony?
Well Barry it is not my intention to put down a company that has been outsdanding throughout this transaction... everything they have done I feel they have gone the extra mile and all work has been excellent... the fact is I can say this is an isolated instance and will do business wih them again in a heartbeat!!!!! I have been watching very carefully and could not ask for more...
They are making this good and the harm is zilch except perhaps for some extra time...so, unless something else happens that ruffles my remaining feathers, I am going to let this one go by....
Tony, Not my intent to criticize and no question things happen. Glad they are making it good, too. But it is a little sad to have man made issues, when we have enough to keep up with maintenance & repairs. I understand you point and I agree it is not a big deal. Thanks for explaining....
You know Barry when I saw the cause, I was fairly upset and took a walk... after calming down and and realizing that no serious harm was done, I figured, its life... be glad it was that simple....!!!!
I wish I had a quarter for every time I've broken something while fixing something else...
After a while though I got better & I learned that some stuff just isn't tough enough. Must be gentle with plastic, rubber & thin metal. I've got that "bull in a china shop" thing down pat!
Almost forgot, shampoo the carpets to remove coolant residue. It will remain sticky long enough to attract dirt & discolor the carpet. And if you have pets or grandinfants, most coolant is toxic. some to a greater degree than others.
"Almost forgot, shampoo the carpets to remove coolant residue. It will remain sticky long enough to attract dirt & discolor the carpet. And if you have pets or grandinfants, most coolant is toxic. some to a greater degree than others." Absolutely. In fact, it might be a good idea to replace that carpet fairly quickly.
Fred, David, you are both correct, only the front portion showed the Afreeze, abt 4 maybe 5 inches... however we are planning on replacing the carpet and kit floor from the bathroom forward with plank type wooden floor...
For now we cleaned the hairs off with 409...C4 and dynamite!!!
BTW, today uneventfull, all worked ok and we started to move in again, 3rd time, I believe... anyway all went well and after seeing how much junk, oooppss, stuff we have, I guess it may take us only a few months to accomplish the task...
Whenever we are working on the coach, we cannot help but think and remember the movie "The Long Trailer", many times we have started to laugh like fools when something is similar...or worse, identical!!!!
"The Long Trailer" should be required viewing, at least twice, preferably thrice if you intend to RV, 'cause "without a smile, life is dead" or something to that effect...!!! For us it is up there with "It's a Wonderful Life" and other similar classics...
OK folks, here is another quick update... another almost uneventful day, all worked well and we are pooped, AGAIN !!!! We are about 98% moved in and 100% in a state of chaos !!
Tomorrow we will finish moving in about 3 or 4 hours and then Lora insists on leaving our old coach in spic n' span cdx...and then the sorting and asigning starts... and maybe some throwing away...!!!!
We are planning a Mon departure with Gods help and a new adventure begins...
You know, it is nice to know that we are going to be around for at least another 100 yrs so that we will accomplish a good portion of our goals and dreams...
Same with "RV" with Robin Williams.
Tony and Lora,
Our first trip (once we got our coach home) was 6 miles away. Far enough to try every thing out, fill the water tanks, dump the holding tanks, run the gen, run AC, run the AquaHot, try the TV, move the slide in and out, cook on the stove, make something in the microwave, bake cookies in the convection oven ... everything. If there was a problem we wouldn't be out somewhere on the highwy and not too far from home. Our whole first year was like that. A little bit further and a bit longer every time out.
The more you know about how every system works the more prepared you are to deal with the things that come up. And you build confidence in your coach and yourself. But prudence forces me to check the oil and coolant level every time before starting and the tire pressures with a gauge (even though I have a TPMS) before moving.
Not sure about 100 years for me but we are quite confident that 100,000 miles is just a ways down the road for us.
Roger
update... well we actually got it done!!!! the move was lengthy, we have too much stuff!!!! but what the heck, life is good when you have lots of stuff!!!! anyway, we left Nac this afternoon and look forward to our new adventures
I am falling asleep so will add more later or tomorrow...
That is great.
Tony and Lora got new roof ACs, had a brief hiccup that was actually, it seems, residual fluid in some insulation that appeared to be a repeat leak. And with that good day, it was capped off by a trip to "A Taste of Nacogdoches". THey had a nice evening, probably something a bit unusual, but good fellowship. Photo attached, with permission, though the photographer could have done a bit better with Tony I think. Oh well, at least Lora is pretty!
Mike
Nice. I am glad they are finished up.