Hello Everyone,
Newbie here-- new to the forum, but not new to Foretravel or RVing.
We have a dilemma: we have purchased SOB from a closely held company that I have supported very strongly, and whose product I have owned since 1989. Our new motorhome was my wife's and my dream coach (we thought), and one we'd been anticipating purchasing for decades. Long story short, I am extremely perplexed and disappointed with the number of issues/problems on this brand new coach. We've had everything from raw diesel exhaust smell in the bedroom, to the inverter malfunctioning because a tech put in the wrong fuse bus, to propane regulator leaks, to loosing all 12 volt at the dash and rolling to a gentle stop, to the thermostats not working properly, to the front TV not working on satellite, to the heater ducts being ripped away from the heater box and simply heating underneath the kitchen cabinets, to loosing all the gauges and dash info while driving through Colorado Springs (Freightliner problem), etc.. I classify these as quality control issues, but we've about reached the end of our rope. I'm afraid the company is trying to build too many coaches too rapidly.
I have been aware of and drooled over Foretravel coaches for 20+ years. We're thinking seriously of trading our SOB and purchasing a new Foretravel. We are fortunate to be able to be in a position to do this, and this coach will probably be the last one we have before the bride and I hang it up.
So here's my question: do the new Foretravel Nimbus and Phenix come with the same types of problems that have to be ironed out? Do all coaches these days arrive at the final consumer with myriads of problems which must be addressed? I understand that they are extremely complicated, but, man, I expect a bit more quality control. Is the life expectancy of a new Foretravel still lengthy? Hopefully outlasting us?
Thank you in advance for your replies.
Raleigh
Raleigh and Linda - welcome to Foreforums!
I'm sorry to read of the issues you've had with your new coach. Few if any coaches are delivered to the customer without issue, but how they are dealt with and how serious they are do vary.
If Steve and I were in the position to buy a brand new coach, a Nimbus or Phenix would be our choice by far. There would probably be a punch list upon delivery, but our experience at Foretravel/FOT says it would be addressed quickly and properly, and by people who will be there the next time you go for service. We are the second owners of a 2003 which we purchased in 2004 and are still very pleased with our purchase.
One thing to be aware of - last I heard, Foretravel doesn't build the Nimbus or the Phenix as a spec coach nor do they have inventory of those models new; only the IH. The Nimbus and Phenix are currently only built-to-order if you want a brand new one. They're still our preferred models and we wish there were more of them since we would like our next coach to be a Nimbus or Phenix :)
Michelle
Raleigh,
I have bought two "demo" Nimbuses. A 40 ft 2008 and then a 42ft 2009. Each had several small items to be fixed, but nothing like you described. All issues were taken quickly and properly. I did have one big problem, a crack in the fiberglass at the roof line on a slide. That was fixed quickly too. I can highly recommend Foretravel coaches.
Roy
I have owned SOBs and my current Phenix. "ALL" motorhomes have issues, Foretravel included. My 2007 has had almost as many issues as my previous SOB. The "big" difference is the support from FOT and the ability to deal directly with the factory. Purchasing an RV through any dealer and trying to get service and support through dealers is what makes owning an RV so frustrating for most. FOT has stepped up at times on my coach, past the warranty period.
My advice, don't try to find the company that can build the perfect trouble free coach. They don't exist. Find the company that supports their product the best and directly. Such as Foretravel.
Welcome to the forum, Raleigh and Linda. As Michelle says, it seems that everything these days has problems right out the door. My question would be how serious those problems are and how well the dealer/factory handles them. From what I've heard, Foretravel is pretty good in both areas. Yes, there will be a punch list on a new coach, and yes, the factory will take care of those items.
I suggest that you plan a trip to Nacogdoches and take the factory tour. While you are there take a look at the coaches for sale there and at MOT. I think you will be favorably impressed.
From my experience with this forum, you will soon be hearing from people who own newer Foretravels who can give you their actual experiences. I'll never be in a position to buy a new Foretravel, but when we were considering the purchase of our coach I got lots of good advice from people who own similar coaches.
Quality needs to be designed into a product, not added after it is built. I find this to'be one of the great plusses in owning a Foretravel coach, whether purchased new or very well aged.
Simple things like extra wire for future upgrades and labeling each and every wire come'to mind.
Just yesterday I had cause to remove a valence from a window, I noted how the valence wall entirely made of solid wood, the back surface was finished. Compare this to my previous sob, where the backside was unfinished particle board and cardboard.
A motor home is a house that lives through an earthquake every time you drive it down the road. I expect any coach to have problems of one kind or another. That being said, the kind of problems you describe seem preposterous in a new coach! We are now happily traveling in our 3rd Foretravel, and the quality of the builds has been consistent through all of them. We began in a '93, went on to a '95 and now love our '02. If you have a long term relationship with one manufacturer, perhaps you can achieve satisfaction ... but it would be hard to trust the machine after seeing such lapses in quality control! Hope you work things out! As Tom has just noted in his post ... if you start dismantling a Foretravel you see how solid they are and the quality just continues to amaze.
Personally, I would never buy a new coach. I want to let its shakedown cruises occur on someone else's watch. While I believe Foretravels to be built well, and there to be less quality control issues than most other brands, the workers are still human, and the craftsmanship of the 1950s isn't the same in 2014. There are also more little tech items to misbehave at the start of a coach's life.
I for one want to enjoy traveling in a motorhome, and not creating punch lists to go back to the factory for fixes, however small, even if free. Like Carol & Jeff are saying, mini earthquakes as it goes down the road. There needs to be a shakedown cruise to find the issues. I just would trade the "new" for the "checked out"...but that's me.
I will say I looked very closely at other brands and decided my next coach will be another FT. One thing they do is when you take delivery you stay a night in the lot. Then they send you about a 100 mikes to a lake to use it and then you come back and have any issue addressed. Are the coaches perfect, not every time but the lists are nowhere near what you described. They stand behind the coach and fix it without the going to the dealer dance. If needed they rake the coach back to production but other times the service guys can fix it.
X2 on what Brad said, I don't think I would ever purchase a new coach, then spend a good amount of my time back and forth to the dealer.builder shaking it out.I would much rather spend my fuel $$ traveling. Lots of good experienced Foretravels out there, and save a few bucks in depreciation. All motor homes will have problems continually mostly little issues. I can say I have owned my 99 U295 for 10 years and had less problems than any SOB I have owned, and the big plus is factory support from F/T with parts and tech advice even though my coach has not been back to them in 11 years. Not to mention the support from the Forum, lots of knowledge on here.
Sometimes you get lucky, I did, 6.5 yrs ago, I purchased my 2001 36' 320 and for the first 4 years I spend money only on a not needed paint job, LED lights, normal maintenance, and fuel.
in the past 2.5 years I have spent money on a 12 VDC vac pump and a new 12VDC water pump that I have not yet installed, maybe never will. Plus a pressure switch on the HWH slide hydraulics, Samsung refrig and additional 8D Gell where the LP tank had been.
Am feeling lucky for the 55,000 miles I added to it.
So agree on a 1st class used Foretravel has been great for me.
Dave M
Ditto all that has been said so far. Not only is the quality of assembly superior to all other motorhomes and in the same class as Newell and Marathon, but the chassis alone and the way it drives will convince you immediately. The materials and components used are the top of the line as well.
If you have bunches of money to dedicate to RV'ing, this is the right coach. I will repeat, the tech support and factory repair facility are enough to convince you this is the premier American motorhome.
I don't say that because I own one. I say it because I've owned SOB's new & used.
We haven't been in a position to purchase a new Foretravel, and so we can't really speak to that. However, we can tell you that we are extremely happy with the build quality of our nearly-20-year-old coach. The quality of materials and workmanship is evident throughout the coach (both inside and outside) and it is barely "broken in" with a little over 160,000 miles on it.
Everything we have read here (and elsewhere) indicates that the current Foretravels have the same level of build quality as does ours and if were were in a position to purchase a new coach a Foretravel would be at the top of our list.
As has already been mentioned, we suggest you visit the factory and get a first-hand impression of their facilities and their personnel. We believe you will be impressed and will order one!
Our GV is 25 years old. We enjoy touring the used coaches at RV dealers. Whenever we go into the older coaches--and even some of the newer coaches (not Foretravels) we come away with the knowledge that our "old" coach has held up a whole lot better than anything on the lots!! Quality of workmanship, quality of design, and quality of products and materials make us proud to own the "old" girl!! And we still get a whole bunch of compliments whenever we are camped.
You cannot go wrong by purchasing a Foretravel.
I am on my third Foretravel ( all used ) and every time I talk with SOB owner's I get a long list of problems. For some reason I have always ended up being the fixit guy at the rally and I am amazed sometimes at the poor quality of SOB's. In 25 years of MHing I have never been towed in, have always been able to jury rig or had a mobile mechanic come out. How many other brand owners can say that.
Gary B
When I was at the factory they rolled out a brand new coach and were exercising all the components. They seem to do a very comprehensive pre-delivery check. From what I have seen Foretravel's are much better than most other companies at this.
You have to remember that a coach is a collection of others parts. If for instance the Acme Widget MkII installed is unreliable then it's not the coach manufacturer's fault if it malfunctions after a few weeks. It IS their fault if they keep installing something that is unreliable or they don't fix it.
As Foretravel don't make many units per year they check them out well. They are selling a high end product so customer relations are very important. Lose a few sales because of bad write-ups and you are in trouble.
All things are going to have problems no matter how well inspected think Space Shuttle, Hubble Telescope even a Royals Royce car. I would not hesitate to buy a new Foretravel based on what I have seen, heard and experienced and I have purchased many vehicles over the years from cars to heavy equipment professionally.
We have a member here -Cashflashbob - who sold Foretravels for many years. It will be interesting what his opinion is.
Keith
I thought it was for a couple of years, back in the mid 80's, or was I told wrong?
Not much to add except as I now have worked on four FTs extensively and looking for another one to give me something to do, I will attest to the build quality of them (will have to take out some more lawn to make a bigger driveway soon)!!. Have many friends with Newmar/HR/Winnies etc and they are amazed at the condition and reliability of the FT. I know the owners of a Newmar outlet here (and they sell many coaches)and they say the FT is a very high end unit and build.
I just spoke to my Brother who is in Washington State RV Park with their 94 GV and he again said it is amazing the # of people wanting to take a look inside and marvel at it. I would say that the older GVs are the main draw due to the angled screen and sleek look.
It's fun.
JohnH
Gettin complex between Cashflash Bob, Calflash Bob & Catfish Bob, glad I am a lowly Dave and not a brilliant ex salesman.
JohnH, the look reminds me of a FMC coach ;)
I'd like to add that the Grand Villas of the late 80s and early 90s reflect the current thinking of the "more efficient" Euro style motor homes. Streamlined fronts and rounded roof edges are highly touted now.
Here is an example (an SOB ad): Winnebago Industries MPG (http://www.winnebagoind.com/products/mpg/)
Craig
1984-1989 then 93 again. Manager from 86-late 89. Fun days.
In between in the same park,Winnebago, national coaches, beaver, Monaco, bluebirds, executives, holiday ramblers, country coaches. Then ran a country coach store for two years for a buddy. Then worked at mike thompsons and mcmahons in the mid 2000's. Not my style. Too much regimentation.
Worked a lot of shows as a temp guy all over the USA. Fun to see old friends stuff.
Miss the old days and the customers.
Switched to building and selling custom dirt bike engines for a particular model of an Austrian brand. Work out of my own shop. Hundreds. Built my first hp street car at 19. Worked at the biggest corvette builder/customizer then in so cal.
Confusion does happen as we age.
Round roof edges swayed less on gusty side winds. Noticeable
667olds442-
Looks like your post got hijacked a little - back to your original question - my Buddy bought a new Tiffin Alllegro Bus about four years ago, without consulting me. In first two years it made 5 trips back to Red Bay AL for fixes and warranty work - this from AZ, because it was large issues a job and Tiffin wanted their folks to do the work rather than pay the dealer to fix.
After the second year he said - I wish I had a 10 year old Foretravel instead of this Allegro Bus. And Tiffin is a good brand with a fine name.
You know doubt understand that these complex machines will have issues - I think you will enjoy the ownership experience. Welcome to the forum, and come join the club.
FYI, James Triana (FT technal advisor) was asked at the GranVention (owners meeting) last fall what used FT he would buy. James didn't hesitate - his answer? a 2001 42" U-320 with a Tag axle. Another approach is find a used unit to your liking (weather 1 or 12 years old) that has had the initial bugs worked out - buy it and then remodel it to your liking - may be less costly and just as satisfying in the long run
Good luck, keep us informed. Be sure to go to the factory soon and take the tour if at all possible.
Bob McGrath the former long time Nac salesman and encore owner told me he was looking for a 97-99 40' u320 a few months ago.
OH, OH, sounds like you might have a customer for your coach AND a chance to move up!! :P :P
Raleigh,
I have been reading this thread and I am, with a great deal of hesitancy, going to throw in my two cents worth. Understand, I am both brand new to Foretravels and brand new to RVing. I just became a proud owner of a 2007 40-foot Nimbus just over a week ago.
In that time, I have put 1,200 miles on this hardly used coach (came with just over 10,000 miles) driving it back to Virginia from Nacogdoches. I have to agree with the general response here: both the build quality and support supplied have been phenomenal. I expected to have issues with any coach and this was no exception. The folks at MOT (where the coach was received on consignment) went through it with a fine-toothed comb and serviced all areas before I even saw it. All batteries were replaced and new tires installed, as well as a comprehensive front-to-back service (and replacement, if needed) of all other components.
Despite that, my own foolishness managed to uncover a flaw that had apparently existed since the coach was built. I exhausted fuel down to a 1/4 tank level before trying to make a fuel stop. This would theoretically have left me with about 40 gallons of fuel. What I, and no one else realized, was that the fuel line feed to the engine had been erroneously connected to the fuel tank outlet for the generator. This also meant the fuel line feed to the generator had been erroneously connected to the fuel tank outlet for the engine. This matters, as the generator fuel feed is designed to be exhausted when the tank fuel level reaches the 1/4 level, to prevent fuel exhaustion to the engine.
The practical result was that I glided to a stop at the top of the exit ramp with no way to restart the engine. Generator ran fine, so no fuel contamination problems. Just no fuel to the engine.
The relevance to your question concerns the outstanding support I received from the MOT staff. They worked with me over the phone to diagnose the issue. They also communicated directly with other support personnel over the next five hours (ranging from a heavy equipment tow operator to Cummings mechanics) until the problem was verified and I was refueled and everything was operating normally again. MOT also covered all expenses associated with the issue. I have also noted in my research similar comments about FOT. These folks clearly believe in and stand behind the Foretravel product.
I can only indirectly comment on other Foretravel attributes, due to my inexperience. It has been many years since I have ridden in a class A motorhome. I found the Foretravel to be amazingly quiet and well built. Rattles and shudders that I seemed to recall were not present. Examples of attention to details are too numerous to list, but seem to be never-ending—I find something new almost every time I am in the coach.
Obviously, no one owner's experience is exactly like another's. However, the tone of the responses you have seen here is the exact type of response that led me to focus in on Foretravel as our "first and final" coach of choice.
I wish you the best of luck in your search.
Safe travels,
Don Rickey
They covered your expenses for tha. Very impressive. They didn't have to do that. That right there is first class.
This has been our experience, too. In fact we comment on it at least once on every trip. And our Foretravel is now 21 years old (and was the bottom of the line... the "entry level" coach). The DW grew up with RVs and her parents had a string of motor homes over 30 years and both of us have ridden with them in their coaches. We remember rattles, shakes and noises which the owners seemed not to notice. Nothing like that in our coach; two decades old and still comfy.
Craig
Everyone,
Thank you so very much for your welcomes, responses, opinions and information...all very valuable. We may, indeed, become converts ;D .
We are going to do our best to make it to the factory, take the tour, peruse the coaches, etc.. I'm sure we will be making good use of this forum and the knowledge of you folks. I will be posting more questions in the near future...like here in a few minutes.
Thank you again, and we'll keep you informed of our progress.
Raleigh
I couldn't afford new, but having been around here a few years the big difference between SOB and Foretravel is the people. At the factory and MOT the commitment to quality is beyond compare in this business. Add to that the support of the people here over any issue, and there's nowhere else in the RV business like it. Come on in, have a seat and stay awhile. You'll be glad you did.