Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Lon and Cheryl on May 26, 2014, 12:10:53 am
Title: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on May 26, 2014, 12:10:53 am
I must confess, I have read quite a few threads dealing with steering box problems. With my to do list sooooooo long, but shrinking, I have always felt a sigh of relief that my steering box was just fine, and I would NOT have to deal with that problem, THANK GOD!
Today I started the coach and the generator for a last look see before I ventured out this summer camping.
There it was, the dreaded drip from the steering box, a few drips and a groan from the steering wheel when I turned it, and then a few more pronounced drips.
I think I will be spending some time with the search function. At this rate I will have a brand new 95 Foretravel in a few years, One piece at a time. MAN vs MACHINE! I can't let it win! The eventual VICTORY will be sweet!
Does it EVER END!
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Carol Savournin on May 26, 2014, 01:39:00 am
Well .... I think we are ALL on our way to a brand new machine ... one piece at a time. That's just the way it goes. We have a lot of fun between pieces!
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on May 26, 2014, 09:10:13 am
Mine leaks a bit too. I put some oil-dry cat litter like stuff on the floor of the compartment under the driver. It catches most of the occasional drips. Check hydraulic oil level. Make sure your left and right steering stops are set correctly. Mine was just hitting the right stop which make the pressure go up and will eventually make the top seal fail as I read here. Pretty easy adjustment.
Roger
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: fkjohns6083 on May 26, 2014, 10:09:09 pm
Kinda reminds me of the old Johnny Cash song about the Cadillac that was built "one piece at a time" With these older machines, it gets quite challenging to come up with the proper replacement parts. As long as it works and doesn't look weird, it's probably OK. Have a great day ---- Fritz
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on May 27, 2014, 04:41:10 am
I bought a 5 quart jug of Valvoline High Mileage 10-40 synthetic blend oil. I'm hoping (WISHFULL!) that the properties in the high mileage formula will swell the seals enough to slow the leak. I doubt it will help, but I have to add or change the oil anyway, so might as well give it a try.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: bbeane on May 27, 2014, 05:46:48 am
Lon it has been my experience in the past that leaking seals just need to be replaced, although Barrs Leak make some good products for a short term fix. Also the molecular structure of synthetic oil is smaller than natural oil, and as such will leak past seals quicker. If you have not been running synthetic oil in the system and change it over now it will likely leak worse.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Gerry Vicha on May 27, 2014, 06:30:54 am
If your leak is primarily when the coach is parked and not running, and it has almost always been parked with the front wheels straight try parking with the steering wheels turned just slightly to the right or left. This will position the pitman arm at a different spot on the seal. I was able to buy some time before I did my seal repair by doing this. Because we almost always park with the front wheels straight the weight of the pitman arm collapses that area of the seal and causes it to go out of round. This worked for me for about a year and then I replaced the seals. Good Luck.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: amos.harrison on May 27, 2014, 08:31:48 am
When my steering box leaked I tried the Lucas stop leak product. Didn't help a bit.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: wolfe10 on May 27, 2014, 09:00:26 am
As already alluded to improperly adjusted steering stops which allow the steering knuckle to hit the axle stop (instead of their being a gap, with the Sheppard box stops providing maximum angle) causes extreme high pressure and is probably the primary cause of seal failure.
This is easily adjusted with the two tiny screws on the exterior of the Sheppard box and/or adjusting the steering stops themselves.
Basically, the steering stops should be adjusted to prevent tires from contacting body or suspension components at maximum turn angles. Then use the Sheppard adjusters to provide a 1/8- 1/4" gap between knuckle and stop. Sophisticated tools include wrench for steering stop and small standard screwdriver for the Sheppard box.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: J. D. Stevens on May 27, 2014, 09:06:42 am
The first sign of leakage from our steering gear was a puddle on the ground when I parked the coach to check in to a campground. The puddle was about two inches across. I topped the oil reservoir with oil about every 200 miles. It required about one quart every 200 miles. I traveled about 1800 miles to finish a trip and get to FOT. The leak was on the Pitman arm side and required a rebuilt steering gear.
The second seal failure was sudden and severe. We dropped about 3 1/2 gallons of oil in less than 50 miles. I think most of the oil was lost in about 10 miles. That was a "show stopper." Fortunately we were very close to our destination. We were able to drive in. Our destination was only three blocks from a repair facility. Repair required a new seal and did not require removal of the steering gear. I think that type of failure is relatively rare.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Miz Dani on May 27, 2014, 11:29:13 am
Ho ho, so it's going around is it? :D Discovered mine while parking at home after the most recent FT rally....only leaks when running, not going on any more trips til she's fixed. Going to have Paul Y. take care of this "little issue".....and just when I thought most of the "bugs" were getting worked out! Parts for the rebuild to be ordered this week.
Good tip about a pan of kitty litter in that compartment, she's starting to leak in 2 separate places, never a dull moment I guess! (by the way the love bugs absolutely LOVE the drippings!)
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Barry & Cindy on May 27, 2014, 11:39:31 am
I looked at our steering gear and was not sure where the shepard adjustment is made. I reviewed the service manual, with little help. Any specific help is appreciated. Any old posted photos could be helpful.
I did see the stops at the king pin area.
I know turning in clockwise will cause relief valve to open earlier and there are probably adjustments on top and bottom of gear box. Top has steering column and is hard to see, bottom is completely in the open.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: wolfe10 on May 27, 2014, 11:59:56 am
Barry,
One of the tiny exterior adjustment/limit screws are on the top (where steering column shaft comes down from the steering wheel AND on the other one is on the bottom.
They are in small recesses. Use a mirror if you can't get directly over (for top) and under (for bottom) one.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on May 27, 2014, 12:03:43 pm
From Brett Wolfe
"First thing to do is verify that you do have a gap between the axle stop on the steering knuckle and the axle on full steering wheel turns. Takes no tools to verify this-- just someone to to turn the wheel with the engine going and someone to look for the gap. 1/8" is the very minimum clearance.
If no clearance (i.e. the steering knuckle axle stop can contact the axle-- metal to metal) hydraulic pressures sky rocket and will surely blow seals.
And even the adjustment is easy-- small standard screwdriver on the small screw on the bottom and top of the Sheppard M100 box. Screwing IN lessens steering cut angle, OUT increases cut angle. Top screw does one direction/bottom the other-- sorry don't remember which does which, but turning either a full turn will show you which direction is affected.
Brett"
Bottom screw is for right turns, clearance on the right stop. Upper screw is for the left.
Mine was the right turn, the easy one. About 1-1/2 turns in reduces the cut angle and increases the gap size. "In" is turning the screwdriver clockwise.
Hope that helps.
Search for "steering stop". There are videos from Shepard that show the adjustment. They don't work on an iPad. I thought there was something on Barry's site but I can't find it.
Try this adjustment before rebuilding. I think I read that hitting the stops hard will blow out the top seal. That is where mine leaks. Not much though, I have added a quart or so in the last two years. My oil dry gets spotted but no drips on the ground anymore.
Roger
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Barry & Cindy on May 27, 2014, 01:17:58 pm
Thanks for the quick replies. We can do this. . .
After I asked, I dug deeper, and found info and a video on the topic. The first PDF is the cover of the manual where I found the 2nd PDF pages. The great youtube link is from BeamAlarm.com.
Does our age coach does not have the auto-stop feature? Can we make axle stop adjustments without lifting front axle?
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: wolfe10 on May 27, 2014, 01:25:57 pm
Barry,
Good video. Foretravels (at least all I have worked) on have MANUAL, not AUTOMATIC plungers so be sure to follow the manual section.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on May 27, 2014, 01:45:32 pm
I have two 12 ton stubby hydraulic bottle jacks, put one at each end of the axle and lifted it just enough that the tires cleared. Put on my wheel chocks on the back end. It made it easy to turn each way to see what clearance i had without the loads from just turning on the ground. I used a mirror on an extendable arm and a flashlight to have look-see.
The bottom screw adjustment was easily accessible at normal ride height but easier and safer with safety tubes in place.
Roger
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on May 28, 2014, 05:56:00 am
If your leak is primarily when the coach is parked and not running, and it has almost always been parked with the front wheels straight try parking with the steering wheels turned just slightly to the right or left. This will position the pitman arm at a different spot on the seal. I was able to buy some time before I did my seal repair by doing this. Because we almost always park with the front wheels straight the weight of the pitman arm collapses that area of the seal and causes it to go out of round. This worked for me for about a year and then I replaced the seals. Good Luck.
Wheels are always straight when parked. I will turn the wheels this weekend. Thanks for the tip! Maybe its telling me to "take me someplace!" I will also check the travel adjustment.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Economy Travellers on May 28, 2014, 05:43:34 pm
A seal kit is a very inexpensive fix for this problem and will save thousands down the road.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Barry & Cindy on May 28, 2014, 07:39:43 pm
Roger,
Did you adjust/check axle stop with tires just off the ground?
And did you also adjust Sheppard manual adjustments with tires just off the ground? Sheppard directions say to adjust steering gear with wheels back on ground. Do you think it makes a difference with wheels off the ground?
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on May 28, 2014, 10:48:50 pm
I first drove the front wheels onto a couple layers of cardboard. It sort of made turning easier. Left looked OK. Right looked very close to a hard stop. I had not seen the instructions just description of what to so from the forum. My goal was to make it easier to turn left and right without excessive loads on the mechanism or scuffing up the tires. I went up till they were just clear of the ground. I doubt I could have gotten a piece of cardboard under the tires. Made the adjustment. Checked right and left. I had a good 1/4" each way.
I'm not sure how on or off the ground would make much difference as far as clearance is concerned. But loads in the steering system mechanics and hydraulics would be more realistic on the ground.
I have not turned hard left and right sitting on the ground to see clearance under load after making adjustments. Maybe I should. A couple sheets of HDPE plastic under each front wheel might be slippery enough to ease the turning loads. Maybe some formica. Maybe I will just wait till a winter when there is some snow and ice on the road out from the barn.
They can probably do this when they set alignment with the wheels on a lazy susan sort of thing.
In any case, leaking is now minimal. Some damp spots in the oil-dry but none on the ground.
Roger
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: gootie on May 30, 2014, 08:41:00 am
If this issue is found on PDI visit what dollar value are we talking for seal repair?
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: JohnFitz on May 30, 2014, 09:16:05 am
I wonder how much steering travel might be induced by bump steer (i.e. when suspension moves to it's travel limits) ? I know you're never going very fast at maximum steering wheel angles but you might be traveling over uneven terrain like in driveway dip where left wheel suspension is extended and right wheel is compressed. This would be a good reason to keep that extra 1/4" of clearance with the hard stop.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: John Duld on May 30, 2014, 09:34:14 am
You can make a grease plate out of two pieces of thin metal ( or other hard material), grease it well between the sheets. Drive on and with weight on wheels it will steer easy for a maintenance check.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on May 30, 2014, 10:32:48 am
Good idea, Thanks. I have plenty of Formica scrap. I'll try some grease.
Since all of this came up I am more aware of hard left and right turns. They are not needed very often so i tend to not go all the way if I can avoid it.
Roger
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Barry & Cindy on May 31, 2014, 05:26:10 pm
With all you good folks guidance and hints, we checked our Sheppard steering axle stop / relief plunger settings today.
Used a pair of old Cuisinart prep boards sitting on Trader Joes heavy paper bags between tire and concrete to make turning easier and not scuff the bottoms of tires. Notice the tire tread marks on the cutting board close-up how the tire did not move on the board
Quickly found the bottom plunger adjustment hole, but I could not budge the screw adjustment, finding it possibly rusted tight. Sprayed Liquid Wrench did not help.
With some effort found access to top plunger adjustment hole using a flashlight and mirror from side compartment. Way too many hoses and cables running over the top of the gear get in the way of looking directly in at it. Found adjustment hole next to steering shaft, toward street side after cleaning out debris held in place from greasing steering U-joint. This screw seemed to turn back and forth a bit.
Turning the steering wheel full left and right determined that the relief plunger is set ok, so we lucked out because we could not turn the bottom adjustment screw.
Found 11 other well-made Sheppard videos on how gear works and how to overhaul it. RH Sheppard steering - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4063FB407C73E762)
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: wolfe10 on May 31, 2014, 05:57:05 pm
Barry,
Glad you checked.
I would keep soaking the small bottom adjustment screw with a good penetrating oil-- may need to adjust it some day.
Brett
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on May 31, 2014, 06:06:48 pm
Good job Barry! My original cardboard pieces got pretty chewed up so the cutting board/greased metal sheets idea looks like a good one.
The picture of the bottom of your steering box looks like it is dry. Mine had a light coating of oil on it, maybe why I was able to make the adjustment. Keep spraying it with a penetrating oil, maybe it will loosen up. I cleaned the whole box off with a brake cleaner spray and wiped it off with paper towels (well as best I could, anyway). Looked like there was still paint on most of it. If it is clean it is easier to see where it is leaking.
The back and forth between forum members about what is going on with our coaches and what we have done about those issues is really great. Owning a Foretravel would be much more of a challenge without the support of a great group of folks like we have here.
This is my 500th post. It is an honor to be able to help anyone in return for as much help as I have received.
Happy trails to all!
Roger
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: fredlewers on May 31, 2014, 09:30:21 pm
You can make a grease plate out of two pieces of thin metal ( or other hard material), grease it well between the sheets. Drive on and with weight on wheels it will steer easy for a maintenance check.
Spray the inside of a large trash bag with WD40, silicone, or similar. Works great for a turnplate. When you're done with whatever icky job you're doing toss the greasy rags etc in & chuck the mess. Worked on an old 1 1/2 ton Dodge chassis coach with PS leak. Had slight pitting on input shaft which kept wiping out seals. Crocus cloth & a lathe squared it away. Sometimes a little work can save a very expensive box. Better to keep the original cores in the chassis if possible. Rarely makes a difference, but once in a blue moon the original core has some feature unique to that unit. Fuel & hydraulic cores are the worst for that.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 01, 2014, 10:56:33 am
I could use a clarification on steering gear adjustment:
The adjustments we make at both ends, open up the piston orifice to stop hydraulic pressure from continuing to assist our steering wheel.
But we can still turn the steering wheel (without hydraulic assist) to force the steer tires firmly against the axle stops. So if we make it easy to turn by having coach slightly jacked up, tires on slick surfaces, being on soft ground, etc, how can we be sure we have adjusted the steering gear correctly.
It seems it would be hard to distinguish the very narrow point when the steering wheel is being turned with power assist and the next 1/8" without power assist when at the axle stops.
Even with steer tires on pavement it may hard to distinguish where the adjustment should be.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: John Haygarth on June 01, 2014, 11:13:24 am
Barry, I have not done this adjustment or checked if necessary so I may be out of order here, but, even if you can move tyre a bit after hydraulic assist is stopped ( by way of pin reversing inside, or stopping high pressure) then you will not be having an increase of pressure capable of blowing a seal!! I feel that is the difference. The ability to continue to directional stop is a result of both manual steering and a latent effect of the Hyd pressure which is now on the decrease??? Does this sound right??? JohnH
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: J. D. Stevens on June 01, 2014, 03:55:34 pm
We adjusted ours on dry concrete. Marilyn could definitely identify that point at which the power steering ended and the "armstrong" steering began. I was under the coach (with safety jacks in place, chocks in place). Marilyn was at the driver position (with careful instruction NOT to touch the parking brake release). We communicated with FRS radios. I think we followed Sheppard instructions and effected a proper adjustment of the pressure relief plungers. It appear that one of the plungers would not have relieved pressure before the steering hit a stop bolt. We did blow a top seal prior to our adjustment.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 01, 2014, 04:39:56 pm
If wheels were on a slippery surface, would it have been as clear when Armstrong steering started?
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on June 02, 2014, 06:12:19 am
I had a chance to get a good look today. The leak is from the SECTOR SHAFT SEAL, behind the Pitman Arm. How involved is this project? Is this something I can do or is it better to farm it out? What costs are involved, If I do it? If I remove, and send it out? If I take it in (RV) and have the entire job done? Any "special" Foretravel only details to tell a installer/repair facility?
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: fredlewers on June 02, 2014, 12:01:16 pm
Looks like your garden variety recirculating ball steering gearbox with power assist. If you've never opened one up, get an old junkyard core to take apart. They're pretty simple.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on June 02, 2014, 06:58:30 pm
I contacted Redhead as recommended by Brett. $500 for a rebuild. How hard is the R&R? Any hidden surprises? Any tips or advice?
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: J. D. Stevens on June 02, 2014, 08:08:34 pm
I contacted Redhead as recommended by Brett. $500 for a rebuild. How hard is the R&R? Any hidden surprises? Any tips or advice?
1. Its gonna be WAY HEAVIER than you expect. 2. DOUBLE check to confirm that all hoses & linkages are disconnected BEFORE you take the mount bolts out. Some of the hardest tasks I've performed is breaking a bolt loose on a dangling part. 3. You're gonna get DIRTY. Be prepared for cleanup & have drain pans, tools & cleaners. I recommend the disposable towels. 4. If you need a specialty tool, ask the parts store if they have a tool loaner program. A lot of parts store chains have a program where you give a deposit & go put it through rental hell. Ask what kind of warrant it has. A surprising number have a lifetime warranty. 5. Its going to take longer than you expect. Watch the weather. Trying to pick up tools in the rain, on gravel or grass, is to comical to be done without a camera...
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on June 03, 2014, 05:01:42 am
Thanks Fred!
I'm working myself through this project, like I do all these projects.
1. depression, knowing that there is a NOT FUN job at hand. 2.accepting the forthcoming aches, pains, and bruising. 3.change over to a offensive , positive, attitude. 4.get the me vs machine attitude pumped. Buy tools, and lots of them. 5.get angry at it, HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME! 6.Fix it 7.bask in my own GLORY! ( I do this the best, but alone). Nobody understands the battle and the carnage that took place like I do.
The battle will begin this weekend! Notice, I don't claim to have won the War.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: dwest on June 03, 2014, 07:55:14 pm
I just ordered a re-man unit from Sheppard today. Once installed, do I have to worry about stops or will they already be set from the factory?
David
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: J. D. Stevens on June 03, 2014, 10:17:21 pm
do I have to worry about stops or will they already be set from the factory?
You will need to set the pressure relief plungers. The settings depend on the geometry of your coach. They can't set them at the factory. My understanding is that they allow full range of motion under pressure. You will want to restrict the range to something less than the maximum turn angle on YOUR coach.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on June 03, 2014, 11:12:16 pm
I'm working myself through this project, like I do all these projects.
1. depression, knowing that there is a NOT FUN job at hand. 2.accepting the forthcoming aches, pains, and bruising. 3.change over to a offensive , positive, attitude. 4.get the me vs machine attitude pumped. Buy tools, and lots of them. 5.get angry at it, HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME! 6.Fix it 7.bask in my own GLORY! ( I do this the best, but alone). Nobody understands the battle and the carnage that took place like I do.
The battle will begin this weekend! Notice, I don't claim to have won the War.
Most days I'm satisfied with outlasting the vehicle. Survival=winning Dont forget cold beverages & snacks to boost your energy. And a radio. Outlast the gearbox. Stamina is everything! It can't run away, all it can do is be still and suffer your wrath for its audacity to drip without permission. Trash talking is good for morale. Yours anyway. Above all, remember YOU ARE SMARTER & TOUGHER than the coach.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Roland Begin on June 04, 2014, 07:30:31 am
Trash talking is good for morale. Yours anyway. Above all, remember YOU ARE SMARTER & TOUGHER than the coach.
Had to laugh, when I am having a hard time with something my comment is always "You think you gonna win well you AIN'T", sometimes I throw in a few defining adjectives, adverbs, pronouns and nouns. :P Yeah I know you shouldn't scream at inanimate objects, but it does help. :P
Roland
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: dwest on June 04, 2014, 09:23:03 am
The cost for the reman was just under $800. It ways a 100 lbs, so freight was in that figure. That was the net after core refund exchange. I felt more comfortable getting from Sheppard since they are the manufactures. My understanding is there could be and probably is more to it than just replacing the seals.
Thanks for info on pressure relief plungers. Since our unit has independent front suspension, I wonder if that adjustment is as critical as units with axles?
David
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: wolfe10 on June 04, 2014, 10:26:14 am
David,
Yes, though the axle stops will be different with the IFS, you still want the Sheppard relief plungers to limit turning angle rather than the hard stops for the steering knuckle.
From Sheppard (or anyone else), it could be set too narrow or too wide-- they have no way of knowing your steering geometry.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: dwest on June 04, 2014, 08:48:24 pm
Thanks Brett. Probably a good idea to let front end shop perform and get alignment done as well?
David
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: wolfe10 on June 05, 2014, 01:03:36 am
David,
Yes, unless you have the tools, removing the steering box is quite a challange.
Setting the stops is not complicated, but make SURE someone does it.
Alignment is unrelated-- no idea if you need one or not: Do you have uneven tire wear? Pulling to one side? Constant steering (too little caster or too little toe-in)? If none of the above, you may not need an alignment.
Brett
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: dwest on June 05, 2014, 08:51:21 am
Brett, The Cummins dealer in Birmingham is swapping out the unit. I suppose I should ask them to make adjustments. I had doubts because they told me they could only swap units and not rebuild. That was my original question for them before purchasing the reman box. They did not have the tools for rebuild.
Coach steers fairly straight. A little playing in wheel. I am curious if the reman box will change that? I will wait on alignment issue.
Will ask the dealer today if they can/will do adjustments as this seems fairly straight forward. (A lot easier than changing out the box!)
Thanks, David
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: wolfe10 on June 05, 2014, 09:38:48 am
The Sheppard box is very widely used in OTR trucks, so they should be vary familiar with setting stops-- it has to be done on 100% of new and reman Sheppard boxes.
Brett
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: dwest on June 05, 2014, 09:57:18 am
Will do. Thanks again.
David
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: dwest on June 05, 2014, 11:37:44 am
Bob,
They are also redoing the wheel seals. Maybe that will help.
Thanks,
David
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on June 15, 2014, 01:00:51 am
Just for info purposes. The Sheppard Pitman arm puller # 3574864 will NOT work on the Foretravel, at least mine. It is a clamshell design and does NOT offer enough top clearance to fit on the Pitman arm. On a outside of frame Pitman arm it would work, but not on the reversed steering box installed on the Foretravel.
I ordered this from Sheppard last week for $123.66, now I will have to TRY and return it and buy the more expensive # 3591842K for $199.05. FIGURES!
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: dwest on June 15, 2014, 10:21:33 pm
Well, installation of the reman steering box is complete. Works like a new one. They had to pull the genset in order in R&R unit. I left on a trip as soon as they completed. I presume the stops are set correctly? Steering is better than it was. Perfect as far as I can tell. No leaks or noises.
Thanks for the help from everyone.
David
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on June 15, 2014, 11:48:51 pm
Brett, are you indicating that the Sheppard automatic adjusters do not work correctly. I noticed the word "AUTO" in the casting of my Sheppard power steering gear and was curious about what it meant, so research revealed the following in the Sheppard Manual.
All Sheppard "AUTO" Plunger equipped steering gears are manufactured with the auto plungers set for minimum wheel cut. Once set using the following procedure, no other adjustment is required.
PROCEDURE: 1. Park the vehicle on a solid surface. Set the parking brake, chock the wheels and assure access to the front tires. 2. Verify that your steering gear has auto plungers. NOTE: Steering gears with auto plungers will have the word "AUTO" cast into the housing. Plastic caps on the plunger hole is a secondary means of verification. 3. Raise the front wheels until the tires clear the surface. Make sure axle stops are set to manufacturers specifications. 4. Start the engine and turn the wheel to a full lock in both directions. Contacting the axle stop with the wheels off the ground will set the auto plunger to the correct position.
NOTE: As you reach the end of travel, you will feel the piston contact the plunger. Continue turning until you reach the axle stop bolt. 5. Return the wheels to straight ahead. Lower the vehicle. 6. Shut off the engine and remove the wheel chocks.
I wonder if some Foretravel models come with "AUTO" Sheppard gear while other Foretravel models come with manual Sheppard gear!
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: bbeane on June 16, 2014, 06:22:23 am
I had a small leak in mine, while the coach was at Josam for new air bags and some other repairs, they are replacing the old box with a Shepppard reman box $795.00 and $275 labor. I'm just getting to old to crawl around and lift heavy things in tight places. The gears are not hard to reseal just make sure all the sealing surfaces are not pitted, or you will have another leak fairly soon.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: wolfe10 on June 16, 2014, 07:24:57 am
I wonder if some Foretravel models come with "AUTO" Sheppard gear while other Foretravel models come with manual Sheppard gear!
I have never seen one, but as per your post, is easy to verify.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: andyr on June 16, 2014, 05:15:00 pm
In all my years with trucks I always jacked the weight ofr the steer tires and king pins and then greased, moving the steering back and forth. Given the straight axel/kingpin type front end I would think "bump steer" would not be an issue.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on June 17, 2014, 05:30:51 am
I had a small leak in mine, while the coach was at Josam for new air bags and some other repairs, they are replacing the old box with a Shepppard reman box $795.00 and $275 labor. I'm just getting to old to crawl around and lift heavy things in tight places. The gears are not hard to reseal just make sure all the sealing surfaces are not pitted, or you will have another leak fairly soon.
A bargain if they pulled your box for $275! I will spend that much or more on tools just to get the box out. Rudy has given me PRICELESS info to aid me in the R&R. Not too bad of a job after he told me what to expect and what route to take getting there.. I plan to send my box to RedHead for the rebuild ($500) as Brett has suggested in a earlier post. I talked to them and I'm impressed with the way they set up the steering box. This project has gone from DREAD, to looking forward to a better box than the coach ever had. Good luck with your project. I would like to hear how everything turns out.
Title: Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!
Post by: bbeane on June 17, 2014, 02:47:08 pm
Lon, the steering box is done rebuilt box from Sheppard $700, labor to R and R $675. Took them all day to get it in and out.