Many of you who have installed residential refrigerators or other alternative solutions have had lots of praise for them. I am considering it. It looks very appealing.
Installation is not quite like swapping a refrigerator in your house. I am interested in reports about durability of different brands in use in RVs. Do they hold up well to the mobile environment? Have you had any other problems with them?
If you remove the LP tank and add more batteries do you need a bigger inverter or a second inverter?
Residential refrigerators are might lighter duty than those years ago, also much more energy efficient. Most only have a one year warranty and have an expected life of ten years or less.
I look forward to your feedback.
Roger
Modern residential high end refrigerators use low voltage DC brushless variable speed motors to boost efficiency. These last forever. The downside is that the cooling fins are very very thin also to improve efficiency. How these hold up in the earthquake environment only time will tell.
When I had MOT replace my Norcold, they recommended replacing it with another Norcold. Their reason was not enough batteries. And since the old one lasted 15 years, I went with another Norcold. And maybe MOT did not want to do the work required to convert to residential refrigerator? If I had to do it again. I would call FT and get their advice. John
I put the cheapest one I could find (Frigidaire, $300) in when my rv one died 3 or 4 years ago. I only put 3,000 miles on the coach a year, but the fridge runs 24/7. No problems,
If it's any consolation, most products are designed and tested to survive the some of the worst transportation vibration that will occur when being transported from the factory to the store to the end user. Imagine the worst riding semi-truck trailer traveling on some of the worse roads, being moved by the worst forklift driver and being moved up/down stairs by a gorilla delivery man. Granted the refrigerator is not running, might (but I doubt it) have support brackets installed just for transportation, and it's for a limited time, but our coaches ride so much better it's hard to compare the two.
I did pull my propane and add a fourth battery. No need to change the inverter out. I could go about 8 hours before the battery addition now I can go over 10. It have two Cpaps the run and a couple iPads and phones plugged in and the fan running or the diesel on the Aquahot. I have to turn the generator on now in the morning after running the tv all night or the DVR recording at least. Time will tell how long they last but once you have it set up it is much cheaper to put a new one in then the first install.
The new cooling units are just not lasting as long so this will be a recurring issue for them too. I always make coffee in the morning and want to charge up the batteries so I run the generator. I think if you had enough solar you could get by not running it. But I went that way on my 99 and decided it was simpler and easier to run the generator. In the summer the genset is on around the clock for AC. Looking at a new inverter and batteries and alternator set up for that issue but will cross that bridge later when I need to replace the alternator.
John, I had room on my 99 34 foot 270 to rebuild the battery compartment and put in four 8ds.
Hi John would you have pictures of the battery addition on your 34'? John
Alas, I sold it in 2005.
I'll be following this thread as I'm strongly considering a residential fridge myself. We installed a new Dometic "top of the line" 4 door fridge 2 years ago and it's been nothing but problems since day one. One day it works, the next no dice. The only thing stopping me from replacing it with a residential unit is the fact that I have $4k tied up in this Dometic fridge!
The fact that absorption type refrigerators have caused many a fire is a major factor to consider too.
Oh Yeah...I know that many of you that have gone to residential units have used the existing vents to ventilate the unit but I've read manufacturers literature that states that these units are not meant for locations with "extreme temperatures" such as a garage, etc. In other words, they are meant to be cooled by room temperature air. This seems to preclude the idea of venting with the outside vents. I'd like to hear thoughts on this subject.
Good luck with the fridge!
My Bosch counter depth side by side has been in the Foreravel for 3 years now, running 7days a week and 12 months a year.
I'm in Chicago so its down to -20 in the winter and +100 in the summer.
I do still have the outside wall air vent open behind the fridge.
So do we behind our Cold Plate fridge. Roof vent, too.
best, paul
I have the rear vent still but the roof one has been covered over and a regular roof vent installed. I also have a removable Pink 1" panel I can adjust in the rear vent depending on temperatures outside.
I gather as we do not live in coach, the few months a year it is running may not cause concern with heat build up, although when in Mexico for 2 months we had no problems and sun was baking down on that side every day.
JohnH
I'm not sure where to begin except to say the temperature fluctuates wildly and that it's generally unreliable. The entire cooling unit was replaced under warranty after 1 year but doing so failed to fix anything. Dometic says it's an "installation issue" but the entire fridge has been removed and re-installed 3 different times, each time being careful to make sure all installation parameters were met or exceeded. (clearances, insulation, venting, etc) These installs were done by 2 different trusted shops and once (most recently) by myself. I added 2 12v milspec cooling fans just below the roof vent, blowing out...this has helped more than anything else but we still have issues.
My guess is that Dometic minimized the insulation on this unit (Elite 2+2) in order to maximize the space. (capacity)
We are considering replacing it with a Haier apt. size fridge/freezer and having a separate small chest freezer in the basement to use during workamping assignments, which are often long and always have shore power available.
You replaced what unit? Your new unit is a 1350 series?
Appears to be taller and wider and deeper than my 7832.
Shame to have issues. It appeared to be a nice refer.
Bob> The Dometic we are having so much trouble with is model 1350WIM. It is now 2 years old and has had the entire cooling unit replaced as well as the thermostat. It continues to be somewhat problematic although it has managed to work well these past 2 months. (Probably because I've been talking about replacing it :D )
Without a quieter gen in a box that I do not have, the household refer is a much bigger changeout than I am interested in. So far. A just replaced all three house batteries with MK 8g8d's. A fourth would not be a an easy install in a close location to the other now aged batteries. To avoid running the noisier gen as much I would need 1,000 watts of solar IMO and a probably a newer inverter although my freedom 25 works fine.
I am a dry camper for the more scenic locations. Don't like any gen running.
Bob
Bob, you can just install a smaller Inv under the bed area for the fridge if you whent with a residential. Not need solar just a dedicated inv' 800 watts Pure sine, as they use a lot less standby power when both running and not in use than the big one will. 3 8ds should keep you going fine till engine runs for charging
JohnH
What about a small little honda 2000.
Am told by the audio bright bulbs, every time you change the noise 90 Degrees it is reduced 3 db. so with that you can build a very quiet box, problem it might require a trailer to haul it around.
With many years playing bus coach games, I have only once came across a extreme quiet diesel generator, only way you could detect its running was feel the exhaust. It took up 3/4 of one entire bay, yes nice stuff.
A side note, if your concerned by the noise of a muffled generator running, you are most likely not enjoying the Aqua Hot either, mine is quiet, but I can hear it about the same as the generator.
A small Honda 2000 watt generator is indeed quiet. I thought about that option but they only put out 8 amps into 12 volts. Using a good battery charger you might be able to get 10 or 12 amps into the batteries. And then you need to have a gasoline supply. You would have to run 10 hours a day or more to keep up with the refrigerator.
A 24 cu ft side by side Samsung refrig uses about 1600 watts per day (based on the energy usage estimates.) if you get one without the stuff in the door, less. If my math is right that is about 150 amp hrs each day, more than one might expect from solar.
How many amp-hrs does the Dometic use while on Gas? It must use some 120v and some 12v.
We like to boondock as well. Is seems pretty hard to do without at least a couple hrs on generator use each day.
What has been residential refrig users experience regarding power usage?
I figure if the big LP tank is out I will add at least two more 8D batteries.
Thanks for the feedback.
Roger
Roger,
The 12 Volt battery charger function on it is indeed limited but seems like 13A continuous at 120 V ought to power a pretty good external battery charger. I've thought about it also as my lead acid batteries don't come near to utilizing the full output of the 10KW diesel geneset.
I carry an external battery charger too. Why is simple, some times you need it. Jumped James stallings jeep once and you can use it in situations with low voltage. Plug it in and connect it to your batteries and it will charge them and no risk to the coach. I do it when I would stay at family with no plug. They do have 110 but not enough Amos but this works great. It will bulk charge and then float.
I'm planning on switching to a residential fridge. But I also want to set up my power supply to automatically switch from battery to shore power. If I run my power feed through a couple of contactors I can take some runtime& heat load off the inverter. My questions are:
Is there an inverter on the market with bare end output wires for external connections?
How big an inverter is big enough a small fridge? (To lazy to do the math myself right now)
What brand of solar cells are the most reliable?
1. Panels are made up of invidividual "cells". As far as I can tell, it's pretty much a commodity market. Some panels claim better efficiency; some claim better angle of incidence, and some claim longer life. The shortest length of life I've found is still well beyond where I'll be still driving...
2. If all your inverter does is power a residential refrigerator there is little point in having a "pass through" to put it on shore power. For ac to pass through an inverter, the inverter has to be at the beginning of the circuit (or run lots of wiring to and fro) which is usually not close to the batteries. Close to the batteries is where you generall want the inverter. But if the inverter powers the whole coach then you need a pass-through of shore power. But being close to the batteries is improtant. A microwave that draws 10-Amps on AC will be sucking over 100-Amps out of a battery bank so the cables need to be big.
3. Inverters that pass through AC don't have bare wires but will accept bare wires (like a circuit breaker accepts bare wires).
Craig :)
FTX ORED has the batteries under the floor inside the door. About 3 1/2 feet from the fridge. Also have room under the fridge for the inverter. Behind the central vacuum.Want bare end output so I can feed into a pair of contactors or a 4 channel relay to switch from battery to shore power automatically. If I use the existing 110 outlet behind the fridge It wont matter if I'm shore power, genset or batteries. I like seamless transition, bulletproof reliability, redundancy, world class performance and fire sale pricing.
But a pass through inverter would work too...
Did not know they made such a critter. Thanks!
If you could only put the solar panels in once, & panel failure wasn't acceptable, what panels would you use?
I have very limited knowledge of solar systems, still on my learning curve.
In fact, the last time I went boondocking I wore camouflage, ate my meals from a plastic envelope & exited the aircraft at 1200 feet.
Fred,
Couple of points.
The inverter needs to be located as near the house battery bank as you can get it, but NOT in the battery compartment itself. Wire size for the 12 VDC wires is massively larger than that required for 120 VAC.
Then run the 120 VAC output to the refrigerator.
Two ways to work the 120 VAC switching.
Some inverters have a "pass through" feature-- basically a built in ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch). When they see 120 VAC from an external source (shore power or generator) they merely "pass through" that 120 VAC. When the external source goes off, the inverter automatically starts functioning.
Or, you can use a separate ATS with external 120 VAC (from your coach main 120 VAC breaker box) being primary.
Most refrigerators prefer a true sine wave, though some will tolerate a MSW.
Brett
There is a 110v outlet behind the dometic in our coach that supplys 110 to it when plugged in. If you plug in a residential refrig there ... won't it run on 110v when it is available via land line or the generator or 110v from the inverter when only battery power is available?
Am I missing something here?
Roger
I have two 120v outlets there. One for shore power and one for inverter power.
Power to the Inverter! Â Ooooopps... Spent too much time in Berkeley back in the 70s
Which reminds me of the time I passed our lovely neighbor as I walked home for lunch in Auburn, AL --- Â War Eagle!
She said, "White man. You gonna fry yo brain walkin' in the hot sun with no hat on"
And I didn't have the presense of mind to reply, "Too late, I spent 4 years in Berkeley, that did the job already"
best, paul
on mine there are two 110V plugs behind refrig. Â One is shore power only (was used to run dedicated compressor in refrigerator for ice maker - only made ice when on genny or shore power) and a second which is hot on shore power or investor. Â Put in ref rig and it promptly quit when I took it off shore power.
%@$%###!!!!!!
Oh..........
And that is how I know..... :-)
Residential fridge is a no brainer. 10 cu. ft. Whirlpool from Lowes (around $350) fit right into the compartment the Dometic was in with just a little trim work. Wired the outlet into the inverter and works on battery or shore power.
Snip: " Whirlpool from Lowes"
Can you elaborate, such as Whirlpool's model-number?
Thanks!
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
I put in the samsung rf197. The best upgrade yet. Two plugs back there. One powered by the inverter one not. I did not put a second inverter in but pulled the stove and use an induction burner and pulled the propane tank.
Yes, but only if our Foretravel opening dimensions are all the same. How about the W, H and D on your model? Was your reefer compartment floor flat or did it have a step in it?
Brett has a good point. Laser printers and microwaves (to run at full power) need a true sine wave and while some may tolerate a MSW, there is a possibility of shortened life.
Pierce
George,
How did you do the wiring and the inverter set up can you post some details please. I just finished installing the new residential fridge and it turned out great. Now i need to decide on a pure sine inverter. I need to remove the original AC fridge outlet end from the AC breaker box and connect it to new inverter but the part that i have not figured out is how it will switch between shore power and DC .... a pass through inverter?
The fridge i installed barely utilize 190w
Thank you,
AL
For the part on powering the fridge go to Beamalarm and look for "Adding a new inverter". I did this and a Double pole/double throw (DPDT) switch. Works like a charm. Just follow the steps as it say's and you will have it done.
JohnH
Ours is a Whirlpool WTR111SFAF from Lowes. We picked it because it would fit through the door. So far it seems to be working just fine. The Dometic that came from the factory died, so we went residential. I replaced the inverter at that time, too. Refrigerator and microwave are on the same outlet, and the inverter doesn't seem to like it if both are running, but it is easy enough to pull the plug on the refrigerator whenever we need the microwave.
The new refrigerator takes up less space than the old one, but is slightly taller. I took out the floor under the Dometic, removed the vacuum cleaner, and mounted the Whirlpool on the floor. We will eventually get a couple of cabinets above and beside the Whirlpool. Still working on the design.
John,
I recall reading his (Adding an "Additional" Inverter) write up sometime ago. I will take a look at one more time. Last year i upgraded the "Converter" I need to figure out and add an inverter.
AL
This article is in the "Modification ideas" section. I used a 1000w pure sine one.
JohnH
All this talk about second inverters makes me happy with the path my upgrade is taking.
The insurance is mostly paying for a custom Sea Freeze 14 cu. ft model running with separate 12 volt compressors for the top freezer and bottom refrigerator. Four inches of insulation should make for good efficiency. No icemaker to leak.
Actually Tom, that is all it is really "all talk" as actually doing it is simple!! I guess if someone else is paying for most of cost with the expensive unit you are putting in then maybe a good way to go, but we are very happy about the el cheepo unit/system we have as the main thing is "it works really well for very little outlay"
Our needs in a Refridgerator are simple " keep some food cool for a few days" then it is back to the store for more!!
This is one change in our coach that took me about 5 mins to think about after the old Dometic started acting up. Most other Mods' take a bit longer.
Like Dave M say's "whatever makes one cumfy"
Be interesting to see pictures you take while change is happening.
JohnH
Tom,
I think the others all have older inverter setups which might not be able to support an electric refrigerator. For the newer FTs, all you would have to do is move the existing refrigerator circuit in the main electrical panel over to the inverter sub panel, which is fairly easy to do.
Even with the Dometic unit on inverter power in my FT, I have no problem running other large loads such as the microwave at the same time as the fridge.
Yes, behind my refrigerator are two electric outlets, one for shore power only, and one through the inverter for the icemaker. Why I prefer not using the big inverter is the 10A at 12v it uses with everything off or in standby.
Ours is a 2000 so no problem with the Xantrex 2500 to power it, I did the addition to SAVE power as this one is dedicated to fridge and front end and uses way less power (12v) to supply 120v to convert it. I can also switch it back to shore or 2500 if I want to by way of DPDT switch. When boondocking or just wanting to save batteries I switch it to that inverter and can run for days while solar charges. I use the microwave at same time and that comes thru the larger one. No power problems in our coach and we use all conveniences whenever we need to. We do not have to run Genset at all.
JohnH
Wow,I can't believe that the inverter draws 120 watts in standby. Which inverter is this? My newer Xantrex SW2012 draws less than 30 watts(<3 amps DC) while on with no load.
120 watts sure a lot of heat too :o
I doubt if the inverter alone is using 120 watts. When I get the coach back, I want to do some testing. I know the bedside Bose is using power, along with the microwave on stby, the front Bose, the old Trinitron TV on stby, the satellite receiver, the VCR, and who. Knows what else. I expect my numbers to drop when I put in a modern TV.
Add a couple of receptacles up front to that circuit, which it does our ours plus all the other goodies you mention.
JohnH
When I put in our residential fridge, I added another dual receptacle (split) in the fridge compartment so I can move the fridge plug between dedicated inverter (1000W pure sine), house inverter (pure sine), or straight house power (generator or shore power.) Figured that way I'd have an option for every contingency.
As it turns out, we leave the fridge connected to the dedicated inverter most of the time, since the main inverter/charger is always on when we're on shore power or generator, but the options are there just to make me feel better.
Wyatt would have it !
I bet he would share the vampire drains with the group ^.^d