Title: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 03, 2014, 02:46:15 am
Post by: Tom Lang on June 03, 2014, 02:46:15 am
I had my refrigerator stop cooling, so called a mobile RV repair guy. One look, and he knew I needed a new cooling unit, which will be be ordered tomorrow. He left it semi running on ac.
Tonight, I heard a not good noise, went outside, and saw the area around the burner was on fire. Turning off the propane and ac didn't stop it, but the fire extinguiser did. Now I have the windows open and vent fans running to clear the ammonia fumes.
The big question, do I go ahead with the new cooling unit, possibly complicated with other damage, or put in a residential unit. If residential, which one?
Fortunately, the fire was limited to a fist size flame and no apparent damage otherwise.
Tonight, I heard a not good noise, went outside, and saw the area around the burner was on fire. Turning off the propane and ac didn't stop it, but the fire extinguiser did. Now I have the windows open and vent fans running to clear the ammonia fumes.
The big question, do I go ahead with the new cooling unit, possibly complicated with other damage, or put in a residential unit. If residential, which one?
Fortunately, the fire was limited to a fist size flame and no apparent damage otherwise.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on June 03, 2014, 04:21:54 am
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on June 03, 2014, 04:21:54 am
I can't believe after that experience you would even have a question about what to install.
THANK GOD you were there to see what occurred!
ANY residential refrigerator is a great choice.
Here are some pictures of MY MOTORHOME after a refrigerator fire. Guess what I changed over too AFTER rebuilding. That is the OLD refrigerator laying on the sofa.
New Bosch counter depth in photo next to it. LOVE IT!
THANK GOD you were there to see what occurred!
ANY residential refrigerator is a great choice.
Here are some pictures of MY MOTORHOME after a refrigerator fire. Guess what I changed over too AFTER rebuilding. That is the OLD refrigerator laying on the sofa.
New Bosch counter depth in photo next to it. LOVE IT!
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John/Pat on June 03, 2014, 09:04:34 am
Post by: John/Pat on June 03, 2014, 09:04:34 am
I was lucky last year when my Norcold died,no fire. I had MOT install a new Norcold on their recommendations that I did not have a large enough battery bank. However, I did have them install a fire suppression system on the new one. And if this one dies I will make appointment for FT to replace it with residential and added another battery bank. But would not buy the cooling system.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: pthurman48 on June 03, 2014, 09:29:29 am
Post by: pthurman48 on June 03, 2014, 09:29:29 am
I broke/ruined my 95 model dometic 4804 refig. by running it in Walmart out of level. I replaced the cooling unit myself. it is easy to do. 4 screws on back, 4 screws inside of freezer, 2-3 electric plugs. You do have to pull the refig. out of the wall. The reman cooling unit comes with warranty. I like the 3 way operation(lp, 110ac, 12volt). As for the fire, you can have an electrical fire with 110ac also. The maintenance on the LP is easy also, 2-3 screws and a little compressed air to blow the unit out once a year. Fire hazard is also possible with the hot water heater, both central heat units, both roof a/c units.....
Stay with an RV refig.
Pat,
Stay with an RV refig.
Pat,
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Dan Stansel on June 03, 2014, 09:32:51 am
Post by: Dan Stansel on June 03, 2014, 09:32:51 am
Oh My Gosh! >:( I think experience tells me to replace my unit with household unit probably Samsung when it goes. Will not go back to an rv type unit as they are so slow to
keep kool when opening the door in summer heat. Have chaney remotes on both the inside refrigerator and the fridge/freezer in the storage bay. This shows me that the one in the storage bay stays cooler when set to 35 degrees. So I keep backup milk etc there instead of in the fridge inside the coach. During the cool months the inside fridge is fine but during the hot summer it works hard to keep up. New technology allows the home style units to be used in motorhomes, so I would follow the trend.
keep kool when opening the door in summer heat. Have chaney remotes on both the inside refrigerator and the fridge/freezer in the storage bay. This shows me that the one in the storage bay stays cooler when set to 35 degrees. So I keep backup milk etc there instead of in the fridge inside the coach. During the cool months the inside fridge is fine but during the hot summer it works hard to keep up. New technology allows the home style units to be used in motorhomes, so I would follow the trend.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 03, 2014, 10:06:16 am
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 03, 2014, 10:06:16 am
go residential, pick one with the closest width to current, do not worry about height.
I like downsizing or removing Porpane tank (if aqua hot) and adding fourth battery
I like downsizing or removing Porpane tank (if aqua hot) and adding fourth battery
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John S on June 03, 2014, 10:27:16 am
Post by: John S on June 03, 2014, 10:27:16 am
I added the extra battery and pulled the tank use an induction burner for the few times we use the stove. Love the residential and wish I had it sooner. Mine did not die but was 13 years old and I did not want it to die when I was using it.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Bill Willett on June 03, 2014, 12:07:20 pm
Post by: Bill Willett on June 03, 2014, 12:07:20 pm
on their recommendations that I did not have a large enough battery bank.
JMO
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 03, 2014, 12:52:00 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 03, 2014, 12:52:00 pm
Even my mobile RV repairs guy is surprised we had a fire running on ac. Should be no source of ignition.
I think having the insurance company involved might push me to rebuilding what I have, the damage looks to be limited to the cooling unit and some singed wood that I can smell. If I go this route, a fire suppression system will be added first thing.
Unfortunately, I don't know if insurance would want to pay for a different type of refrigerator, plus cabinet mods.
I think having the insurance company involved might push me to rebuilding what I have, the damage looks to be limited to the cooling unit and some singed wood that I can smell. If I go this route, a fire suppression system will be added first thing.
Unfortunately, I don't know if insurance would want to pay for a different type of refrigerator, plus cabinet mods.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: fouroureye on June 03, 2014, 02:56:18 pm
Post by: fouroureye on June 03, 2014, 02:56:18 pm
Tom,
Insurance pays you money-does not tell you how or what to do with it to fix it. Your compensation is monetary nothing more.
No matter what you do, make sure you tell him you want "ORIGINAL" replacement standards @ Foretravel/MOT either they pay to fly an estimater to you or you drive there it is part of your coverage.
They make sure you pay the premium, now your claim needs to be treated fairly. ^.^d
Look at it this way, if it is $4000 for the claim (betting its more) once you get the check if the estimater misses something it may be a fight to get it covered. If the frige and install is $4500 you just pay the extra and your deductible, that's it!
Insurance pays you money-does not tell you how or what to do with it to fix it. Your compensation is monetary nothing more.
No matter what you do, make sure you tell him you want "ORIGINAL" replacement standards @ Foretravel/MOT either they pay to fly an estimater to you or you drive there it is part of your coverage.
They make sure you pay the premium, now your claim needs to be treated fairly. ^.^d
Look at it this way, if it is $4000 for the claim (betting its more) once you get the check if the estimater misses something it may be a fight to get it covered. If the frige and install is $4500 you just pay the extra and your deductible, that's it!
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Michelle on June 03, 2014, 04:03:17 pm
Post by: Michelle on June 03, 2014, 04:03:17 pm
Tom,
Insurance pays you money-does not tell you how or what to do with it to fix it. Your compensation is monetary nothing more.
Look at it this way, if it is $4000 for the claim (betting its more) once you get the check if the estimater misses something it may be a fight to get it covered. If the frige and install is $4500 you just pay the extra and your deductible, that's it!
This was our experience with our roof claim in 2010. Our satellite dish was one of the damaged items and the base "remediation" was cost of replacement with new equivalent - another single LNB domed unit. We paid the difference in cost out of our pockets and had a Winegard Trav'ler installed instead.
Now, one key was having the adjuster who covers Nac and knows Foretravels redo the estimate - MOT worked with him and provided their estimate; he tweaked it just a little but agreed to all the issues they found (which was much more extensive than the initial adjuster's "report"). He also used their shop rate, not the $38/hour that the Dallas-area adjuster used when we initially filed the claim.
(P.S. No, we have no idea where the $38/hour shop is ;) )
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 03, 2014, 04:09:59 pm
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 03, 2014, 04:09:59 pm
Sometimes, I think I'm talking to a wall. The only way to be sure your loved ones are safe is to take a little time and money to fireproof the refrigerator compartment if you have a RV style unit. Just not that hard to do. Imagine if Tom had not gone outside and seen the fire.
Here is the post again: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=16384.msg104850#msg104850)
Glad to help if anyone has questions.
Pierce
Here is the post again: Serious Issue - Fridge Fire (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=16384.msg104850#msg104850)
Glad to help if anyone has questions.
Pierce
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 03, 2014, 05:22:54 pm
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 03, 2014, 05:22:54 pm
The big question, do I go ahead with the new cooling unit, possibly complicated with other damage, or put in a residential unit. If residential, which one?
The industry has known about the dangers of absorption-type refrigerator fires for at least a decade and both Dometic and Norcold have had to recall models which were particularly susceptible to them.
You had a fire in your RV absorption-type refrigerator.
Why is this a big question?
Craig
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Michelle on June 03, 2014, 05:37:03 pm
Post by: Michelle on June 03, 2014, 05:37:03 pm
Even my mobile RV repairs guy is surprised we had a fire running on ac. Should be no source of ignition.
Was the igniter disconnected after the cooling unit leak was discovered? If the AC power dropped out and the fridge tried to switch over to gas, it will spark to try and light the burner. I believe the NDR1292 and 1492 (and a number of other units) only have "Gas" and "AEC" (AC primary, switch to gas if AC goes out) as operation modes. You cannot force them to AC-only. Even if you shut the propane off and bleed off the gas, the ignitor will still try to spark once or twice if the unit switches to gas.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 03, 2014, 05:52:00 pm
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 03, 2014, 05:52:00 pm
Residential refrigerators are not known to cause fires that burn down coaches.
Propane refrigerators use a flammable solution that is known to catch on fire.
It is your choice. Everyone has to decide.
We replaced our propane with electric even though the propane was working & cooling fine.
Much better be proactive rather than reactive and make the swap when convenient rather than on a trip, and to have time to research choices.
Sorry you had a fire, but you are VERY lucky, and fortunate to have been home. I get chills just reading your event.
Turning off propane does not stop fire, because the refrigerant solution is what is leaking and burning with no way to turn it off.
The biggest problem with our electric fridge is my waistline, because with ice cream staying hard, we always have some in the freezer.
Why do you need insurance involvement. Don't we have insurance for catastrophic damage, not for maintenance? Besides the CLUE database will have a mark against for a long time even if you call insurance and they do not pay to fix a broken fridge.
CLUE and You: How Insurers Size You Up | Privacy Rights Clearinghouse (https://www.privacyrights.org/clue-and-you-how-insurers-size-you)
Propane refrigerators use a flammable solution that is known to catch on fire.
It is your choice. Everyone has to decide.
We replaced our propane with electric even though the propane was working & cooling fine.
Much better be proactive rather than reactive and make the swap when convenient rather than on a trip, and to have time to research choices.
Sorry you had a fire, but you are VERY lucky, and fortunate to have been home. I get chills just reading your event.
Turning off propane does not stop fire, because the refrigerant solution is what is leaking and burning with no way to turn it off.
The biggest problem with our electric fridge is my waistline, because with ice cream staying hard, we always have some in the freezer.
Why do you need insurance involvement. Don't we have insurance for catastrophic damage, not for maintenance? Besides the CLUE database will have a mark against for a long time even if you call insurance and they do not pay to fix a broken fridge.
CLUE and You: How Insurers Size You Up | Privacy Rights Clearinghouse (https://www.privacyrights.org/clue-and-you-how-insurers-size-you)
Title: Re: refrigerator woes (fire)
Post by: Tom Lang on June 04, 2014, 09:38:13 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 04, 2014, 09:38:13 pm
My RV repair guy showed me something interesting, and verygoos about Foretravel.
The fire was five minutes or less, probably burning hydrogen gas from the cooling unit. Damage was confined to the area behind and above the metal plate put there to confine fires. BTW, this plate is added to recalled refrigerators. The flame was escaping from the top of that plate, about the size of my fist. I am sure it was licking the inner surface on the outside wall.
But here is the remarkable thing. The inner surface is a blue foam material, and it shows absolutely no sign of being subjected to fire. I don't know what this foam is, but am sure glad Foretravel put it there.
I am having the damaged parts replaced, the cooling unit, burner, ignitor, electric elements, circuit board and cover, plus some wires. I plan to add a thermal DC disconnect to prevent restarts after a fire, plus a fire suppression system. I will feel safely protected.
My other options don't look so good. No exact fit new RV refrigerator is made, and a residential too would need cabinet work. Besides, this is a u295, so going all electric is not practical.
The fire was five minutes or less, probably burning hydrogen gas from the cooling unit. Damage was confined to the area behind and above the metal plate put there to confine fires. BTW, this plate is added to recalled refrigerators. The flame was escaping from the top of that plate, about the size of my fist. I am sure it was licking the inner surface on the outside wall.
But here is the remarkable thing. The inner surface is a blue foam material, and it shows absolutely no sign of being subjected to fire. I don't know what this foam is, but am sure glad Foretravel put it there.
I am having the damaged parts replaced, the cooling unit, burner, ignitor, electric elements, circuit board and cover, plus some wires. I plan to add a thermal DC disconnect to prevent restarts after a fire, plus a fire suppression system. I will feel safely protected.
My other options don't look so good. No exact fit new RV refrigerator is made, and a residential too would need cabinet work. Besides, this is a u295, so going all electric is not practical.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes (fire)
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 04, 2014, 10:43:14 pm
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 04, 2014, 10:43:14 pm
yes, almost every residential requires the shelf below the refrigerator to be lowered and rebuilt. Â Getting a counter depth with a very close but not quite as wide width will result in the least work.
My residential cost $800 for parliament to install (included removal of Dometic, and the RandR the side window where the old went out and the new went in. French door Haeir counter depth for $1400 and $800 install. Â Cheaper and better than Dometic.
Never have a coach again with an RV refrigerator unless it is a class B and then I am not sure.....
Good luck on the RV ref rig, sounds like your plan is the best option if not going Residential
BTW, I have 3 8D and factory Prosine 2500 - no changes or modifications and it is all doing just fine.
My residential cost $800 for parliament to install (included removal of Dometic, and the RandR the side window where the old went out and the new went in. French door Haeir counter depth for $1400 and $800 install. Â Cheaper and better than Dometic.
Never have a coach again with an RV refrigerator unless it is a class B and then I am not sure.....
Good luck on the RV ref rig, sounds like your plan is the best option if not going Residential
BTW, I have 3 8D and factory Prosine 2500 - no changes or modifications and it is all doing just fine.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 04, 2014, 11:19:07 pm
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 04, 2014, 11:19:07 pm
My RV repair guy showed me something interesting, and verygoos about Foretravel.
The fire was five minutes or less, probably burning hydrogen gas from the cooling unit. Damage was confined to the area behind and above the metal plate put there to confine fires. BTW, this plate is added to recalled refrigerators. The flame was escaping from the top of that plate, about the size of my fist. I am sure it was licking the inner surface on the outside wall.
But here is the remarkable thing. The inner surface is a blue foam material, and it shows absolutely no sign of being subjected to fire. I don't know what this foam is, but am sure glad Foretravel put it there.
I am having the damaged parts replaced, the cooling unit, burner, ignitor, electric elements, circuit board and cover, plus some wires. I plan to add a thermal DC disconnect to prevent restarts after a fire, plus a fire suppression system. I will feel safely protected.
My other options don't look so good. No exact fit new RV refrigerator is made, and a residential too would need cabinet work. Besides, this is a u295, so going all electric is not practical.
A fire suppression system has to have a yearly inspection by a licensed professional. Includes refilling, etc. Have not seen many owners who will be disciplined enough to do it after the first year or two. Store owners with insurance policies dependent on the inspections, usually didn't get around to it until fire prevention caught it during inspections.
Pierce
Title: Re: refrigerator woes (fire)
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 04, 2014, 11:41:52 pm
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 04, 2014, 11:41:52 pm
We have two 8D GEL house batteries with an electric fridg and we boondock ok. We are not all electric as our hot water tank, furnace and stove top burner use propane, just not fridg anymore.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes (fire)
Post by: Paul Smith on June 05, 2014, 12:06:24 am
Post by: Paul Smith on June 05, 2014, 12:06:24 am
A cold plate refrigerator could be made as an exact fit. AC/DC, too. Sea Freeze of America - Custom Refrigeration (http://www.seafreezeinc.com/custom.shtml)
best, paul
best, paul
Quote
My other options don't look so good. No exact fit new RV refrigerator is made, and a residential too would need cabinet work. Besides, this is a u295, so going all electric is not practical.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Roy Dameron on June 05, 2014, 02:41:55 pm
Post by: Roy Dameron on June 05, 2014, 02:41:55 pm
I was looking over the American Coach forum and noticed a couple had lost their coach to a refrigerator fire. This after market refrigerator protective controller came up. It is an add on unit the shuts down the heat for 10 minutes if it over heats. Won't prevent all types of refrigerator fires, but looks like the most common one. I have ordered one. I like the concept. Cost is $120 I thought that was cheap insurance. Anyone have any experience with this unit?
ARPrv | RV Refrigerator | RV Fridge Control | Install by Cooling Unit | RV Fires (http://www.arprv.com/)
Roy
ARPrv | RV Refrigerator | RV Fridge Control | Install by Cooling Unit | RV Fires (http://www.arprv.com/)
Roy
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 05, 2014, 03:22:06 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 05, 2014, 03:22:06 pm
Although mine is not under recall, I plan to add a part from the recall kit. This is a thermal circuit breaker mounted on the flue to kill DC power to the refrigerator if it gets too hot. It has a reset button.
The recall also includes a metal sheet positioned to direct the flame away from the outside wall. My non-recall 1492 already has this.
I like the simplicity of this approach.
By the way, with the DC power off, the propane will also be off. Even without a fire suppression system, the fire will stopn an the cooling unit empties. I wonder how long that is? Apparently this is what Norcold and Domestic are counting on.
The recall also includes a metal sheet positioned to direct the flame away from the outside wall. My non-recall 1492 already has this.
I like the simplicity of this approach.
By the way, with the DC power off, the propane will also be off. Even without a fire suppression system, the fire will stopn an the cooling unit empties. I wonder how long that is? Apparently this is what Norcold and Domestic are counting on.
Title: Propane
Post by: John S on June 05, 2014, 06:19:25 pm
Post by: John S on June 05, 2014, 06:19:25 pm
I did not have a Propane off on my 01 with no DC power. The lines are still charged.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: rbark on June 05, 2014, 07:42:20 pm
Post by: rbark on June 05, 2014, 07:42:20 pm
Roy, I believe Barry Beam had one of those installed on his coach.
He might be able to give you some insight on the product.
Richard B
He might be able to give you some insight on the product.
Richard B
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 05, 2014, 08:12:50 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 05, 2014, 08:12:50 pm
I did not have a Propane off on my 01 with no DC power. The lines are still charged.
The lines will still be charged, but the controller won't open the valve to the burner nor fire the igniter without DC power.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 05, 2014, 08:21:12 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 05, 2014, 08:21:12 pm
Roy, I believe Barry Beam had one of those installed on his coach.
He might be able to give you some insight on the product.
Richard B
Mac the fire guy also has one, he Ike's it better than the thermal circuit breaker.
He also tells me Dometic boasts of not having a fire reported in three years. Records are made to be broken.
He also tells me both Norcold and Domestic used to tell customers with recalled models it was safe to run on as ...until they had a bunch of fires on ac.
One more tidbit from Mac. He asked the engineer about the sheet metal fire stop added as part of the recall, and was told that was to direct the fire up the flue when it caught fire. Mac asked if he meant if it caught fire, and was told he meant when.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 05, 2014, 08:32:09 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 05, 2014, 08:32:09 pm
I was looking over the American Coach forum and noticed a couple had lost their coach to a refrigerator fire. This after market refrigerator protective controller came up. It is an add on unit the shuts down the heat for 10 minutes if it over heats. Won't prevent all types of refrigerator fires, but looks like the most common one. I have ordered one. I like the concept. Cost is $120 I thought that was cheap insurance. Anyone have any experience with this unit?
ARPrv | RV Refrigerator | RV Fridge Control | Install by Cooling Unit | RV Fires (http://www.arprv.com/)
Roy
I'll be adding one, sounds like a good idea. Their website is good reading, this device solves many issues other than fire.
By the way, Mac says the fire suppression device needs no maintenance, inspections, nor recharging.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Caflashbob on June 05, 2014, 08:48:59 pm
Post by: Caflashbob on June 05, 2014, 08:48:59 pm
The lines will still be charged, but the controller won't open the valve to the burner nor fire the igniter without DC power.
Refer is wired around the shutoff. Direct to battery. Door shutoff no effect. So is the chest freezer I think. Prevents turned off refers with food in them. Propane leak detector also?
Bob
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 05, 2014, 08:55:50 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 05, 2014, 08:55:50 pm
The thermal shutoff would be wired to the DC power line feeding the regfriferator, completely shutting it down.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 07, 2014, 02:07:06 am
Post by: Tom Lang on June 07, 2014, 02:07:06 am
Here's another kudo re: Fotetravel's attention to detail, quality, and safety.
Mac the fire guy told me RV manufacturers put nothing between the refrigerator fire box and the wood wall. When I told him my coach has a fire resistant blue foam, he said it does not go very far up. Mac has a FleetWOOD.
I talked to Drew at Foretravel today, and he says that foam goes all the way to the roof.
I looked at my campground host's newer Monaco. And the raw wood is jammed right up in contact with the recall-added fire stop. And no foam.
My fist size fire was probably licking at the bottom edge of the foam, and left a fist size depression in the foam, maybe a quarter inch deep.
Needless to say I'd rather have an older Foretravel, built for safety no matter the cost, than any number of new SOB coaches, no matter how costly.
Mac the fire guy told me RV manufacturers put nothing between the refrigerator fire box and the wood wall. When I told him my coach has a fire resistant blue foam, he said it does not go very far up. Mac has a FleetWOOD.
I talked to Drew at Foretravel today, and he says that foam goes all the way to the roof.
I looked at my campground host's newer Monaco. And the raw wood is jammed right up in contact with the recall-added fire stop. And no foam.
My fist size fire was probably licking at the bottom edge of the foam, and left a fist size depression in the foam, maybe a quarter inch deep.
Needless to say I'd rather have an older Foretravel, built for safety no matter the cost, than any number of new SOB coaches, no matter how costly.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Michelle on June 07, 2014, 09:09:20 am
Post by: Michelle on June 07, 2014, 09:09:20 am
Here's another kudo re: Fotetravel's attention to detail, quality, and safety.
Mac the fire guy told me RV manufacturers put nothing between the refrigerator fire box and the wood wall. When I told him my coach has a fire resistant blue foam, he said it does not go very far up. Mac has a FleetWOOD.
I talked to Drew at Foretravel today, and he says that foam goes all the way to the roof.
Tom - here are some photos of the cabinet interior that were taken when our Dometic fridge was removed (we went residential).
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 07, 2014, 10:33:24 am
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 07, 2014, 10:33:24 am
Tom and Michelle,
The blue you have is the right stuff. Wish they had done that in the earlier models. Foretravel didn't say when they started installing it, did they? Our 1993 U300 was just thin Lauan everywhere in the compartment.
Here is a video showing the fire resistive blue type vs ordinary Styrofoam: Burn Test: Regular vs Flame retardant EPS (styrofoam) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvaWHdyp5I0)
Tom, can't trust those FleetWOODs. :D
Pierce
The blue you have is the right stuff. Wish they had done that in the earlier models. Foretravel didn't say when they started installing it, did they? Our 1993 U300 was just thin Lauan everywhere in the compartment.
Here is a video showing the fire resistive blue type vs ordinary Styrofoam: Burn Test: Regular vs Flame retardant EPS (styrofoam) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvaWHdyp5I0)
Tom, can't trust those FleetWOODs. :D
Pierce
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 07, 2014, 11:47:05 am
Post by: Tom Lang on June 07, 2014, 11:47:05 am
Drew seems to be on the learning curve, filling in with James T. away. I'd wait a week and ask James that question.
The Monaco I peeked at has only wood visible surrounding the refrigerator. They have a piece of wood running across the cabinet, just above the access hatch, that is touching the aluminum insulating material they wrapped around the firebox as a fire director in the recall, there was no room for the sheet metal fire shield.
The Monaco I peeked at has only wood visible surrounding the refrigerator. They have a piece of wood running across the cabinet, just above the access hatch, that is touching the aluminum insulating material they wrapped around the firebox as a fire director in the recall, there was no room for the sheet metal fire shield.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John S on June 07, 2014, 11:48:26 am
Post by: John S on June 07, 2014, 11:48:26 am
I had and have the blue insulation in my coach too.
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsichenze.smugmug.com%2FRV%2FRenovations%2Fi-Nz688Kt%2F0%2FS%2Fphoto-3-S.jpg&hash=fd66d5bbf152d7ceac63b617d607cf0a" rel="cached" data-hash="fd66d5bbf152d7ceac63b617d607cf0a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://sichenze.smugmug.com/RV/Renovations/i-Nz688Kt/0/S/photo-3-S.jpg) (http://sichenze.smugmug.com/RV/Renovations/i-Nz688Kt/A)
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsichenze.smugmug.com%2FRV%2FRenovations%2Fi-Nz688Kt%2F0%2FS%2Fphoto-3-S.jpg&hash=fd66d5bbf152d7ceac63b617d607cf0a" rel="cached" data-hash="fd66d5bbf152d7ceac63b617d607cf0a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://sichenze.smugmug.com/RV/Renovations/i-Nz688Kt/0/S/photo-3-S.jpg) (http://sichenze.smugmug.com/RV/Renovations/i-Nz688Kt/A)
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 07, 2014, 11:54:22 am
Post by: Tom Lang on June 07, 2014, 11:54:22 am
Tom - here are some photos of the cabinet interior that were taken when our Dometic fridge was removed (we went residential).
Maybe the blue foam doesn't go all the way to the top. I'll know for sure when the refrigerator is out. Drew couldn't tell me what foam was used, but it might be labeled. I might give James a call when he gets back.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 07, 2014, 12:04:58 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 07, 2014, 12:04:58 pm
STYROFOAMTM Brand insulation products are combustible and should be protected from flames and other high-heat sources. They contain a flame retardant to inhibit accidental ignition from small fire sources. During a fire, smoke may be heavy and contain the original material as well as combustion products of varying composition that may be irritating.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2014, 12:38:06 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2014, 12:38:06 pm
Tom, in our 99', the blue foam goes all the way top. I figure they put it there to help the fridge not have t work as hard to keep things cool. There is also an extra inch and half of insulation skinned with a sheet of fiberglass that is on the wall above the vent, but doesn't come all the way down to the vent. This is in addition to the thickness of the wall insulation. I just completed my marine style fridge installation and since there is no burner, I brought the insulation all the way down to the vent opening. The blue insulation used in the fridge compartment is the same as used in the basement floor and coach floor as well as the side walls of the coaches. The walls have an extra layer of some kind of brown foam as well. Thread on the fridge install coming soon...
Don
Don
Maybe the blue foam doesn't go all the way to the top. I'll know for sure when the refrigerator is out. Drew couldn't tell me what foam was used, but it might be labeled. I might give James a call when he gets back.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2014, 03:22:22 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2014, 03:22:22 pm
FWIW, here are some pictures of the blue Styrofoam used by Foretravel throughout the coach. Unfortunately, the flame rating text is not intact, But by putting the two pieces I had together you can read most of it. It does seem that the Styrofoam is superior to bare wood in terms of catching fire, but I wouldn't count on it keeping the coach from burning to the ground any event of a catastrophic fridge fire! These are pieces are left over from my fridge project, I took these pieces out to get a more flush surface and then I added a half-inch foil faced rigid polyurethane foam insulation which has a similar characteristic as regarding exposure to flame as the Styrofoam type used by Foretravel. Though the new fridge is not an absorption style, I lined the compartment with .032" thick aluminum sheet over the insulation. I did it more for weatherproofing then fireproofing, But I am quite sure that it is superior to wood or bare Styrofoam as regards susceptibility to flame!
Don
Don
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 07, 2014, 04:00:48 pm
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 07, 2014, 04:00:48 pm
STYROFOAMTM Brand insulation products are combustible and should be protected from flames and other high-heat sources. They contain a flame retardant to inhibit accidental ignition from small fire sources. During a fire, smoke may be heavy and contain the original material as well as combustion products of varying composition that may be irritating.
Tom,
I don't think anyone expects the blue foam to have a one hour fire rating. The question is with a clean compartment (no rodent nests, etc) how long does the fire last and how intense is it? There must be a video or documentation of both. The next question is, has any Foretravel with the blue foam had a refrigerator fire that spread beyond the compartment?
That's one of the reasons I installed the backerboard. Not even a welding torch will go through it. Possibly an overkill but...
Installation of a residential or cold plate fridge does away with all the questions.
Pierce
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 07, 2014, 11:48:18 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 07, 2014, 11:48:18 pm
Mac says a fist size fireball will run out of hydrogen-ammonia in about three minutes. My guess is mine was going about that long. No real damage other than the fridge.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 13, 2014, 06:04:42 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 13, 2014, 06:04:42 pm
After a few email exchanges with Dometic, they have decided to help. They say I can have it repaired, or replaced with as current model that won't fit, or take some undetermined small cash payment to use towards a residential unit. When Temecula Valley RV has the coach for my slide repair starting Monday, tvrv and Dometic will work this out. I could still go with insurance for a marine unit.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: wayne m on June 13, 2014, 11:53:41 pm
Post by: wayne m on June 13, 2014, 11:53:41 pm
tom
I went through several thousand dollars of fridge woes. my solution a few years ago
was a Samsung residential. lots of people on this site have done the same thing. I
don't think you will find anyone who is sorry that they went this route. mine runs
fine on a modified sine wave inverter, uses very little power, and dw is happy.
not a cheap mod, but it works.
I went through several thousand dollars of fridge woes. my solution a few years ago
was a Samsung residential. lots of people on this site have done the same thing. I
don't think you will find anyone who is sorry that they went this route. mine runs
fine on a modified sine wave inverter, uses very little power, and dw is happy.
not a cheap mod, but it works.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 14, 2014, 01:08:26 am
Post by: Tom Lang on June 14, 2014, 01:08:26 am
I will need to come to a decision next week.
As much was I am attracted to a large residential unit, my DW likes the wood panel look we have now, we would lose the pullout drawers below, being only 38' in length we don't have that pantry on the side, and being a U295, going all electric and replacing the propane tank with a fourth 8D battery is not practical. And any residential conversion would call for cabinet work done locally.
I am also attracted to a marine unit. The one Don is using has the wool panel look we like, but again calls for new cabinetry both below and to the side. And the capacity is quite a bit smaller, which may or may not matter.
Another option is a custom marine unit. Advantages are wood panels, probably more capacity than the Domestic, can be made as an exact fit so no cabinetry is needed, and can be made with 4" of insulation instead of 3" for higher efficiency. Disadvantage is $3500 cost, but offset by no cabinetry costs other than wood panel inserts.
But at the moment I an leaning in the direction of letting Domestic rebuild what I have now, and adding a fire prevention device and a fire suppression device. Just leaning.
As much was I am attracted to a large residential unit, my DW likes the wood panel look we have now, we would lose the pullout drawers below, being only 38' in length we don't have that pantry on the side, and being a U295, going all electric and replacing the propane tank with a fourth 8D battery is not practical. And any residential conversion would call for cabinet work done locally.
I am also attracted to a marine unit. The one Don is using has the wool panel look we like, but again calls for new cabinetry both below and to the side. And the capacity is quite a bit smaller, which may or may not matter.
Another option is a custom marine unit. Advantages are wood panels, probably more capacity than the Domestic, can be made as an exact fit so no cabinetry is needed, and can be made with 4" of insulation instead of 3" for higher efficiency. Disadvantage is $3500 cost, but offset by no cabinetry costs other than wood panel inserts.
But at the moment I an leaning in the direction of letting Domestic rebuild what I have now, and adding a fire prevention device and a fire suppression device. Just leaning.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on June 14, 2014, 04:43:53 am
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on June 14, 2014, 04:43:53 am
You do have the option of a counter depth residential unit that uses wood panels instead of stainless steel or colored.
I don't think you HAVE to install a additional battery, its probably nice but NOT necessary.
I put in a refrigerator on/off switch so I can turn off the refrigerator easily. If I think I will have battery problems I can turn off the refrigerator and run it sparingly(or on the generator). The refrigerator when loaded does not run that often, and turning it off for a few hours will still keep everything inside good and cold. When I turn it back on it comes back down to temp. fast. The freezer allows me to set temp. down to about -10 and I keep the refrigerator side set to 36 degrees.
Takes a long time for temps to elevate to a dangerous temp. for food preservation.
I don't think you HAVE to install a additional battery, its probably nice but NOT necessary.
I put in a refrigerator on/off switch so I can turn off the refrigerator easily. If I think I will have battery problems I can turn off the refrigerator and run it sparingly(or on the generator). The refrigerator when loaded does not run that often, and turning it off for a few hours will still keep everything inside good and cold. When I turn it back on it comes back down to temp. fast. The freezer allows me to set temp. down to about -10 and I keep the refrigerator side set to 36 degrees.
Takes a long time for temps to elevate to a dangerous temp. for food preservation.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 14, 2014, 08:31:14 am
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 14, 2014, 08:31:14 am
For $699 this outfit will custom design and build wood panel overlays for your refrigerator (of, presumably, any make) to match.
I found this with one search for "refrigerator wood panel overlay". Probably should have made it "refrigerator door". Google is your friend. :D
Craig
I found this with one search for "refrigerator wood panel overlay". Probably should have made it "refrigerator door". Google is your friend. :D
Craig
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John Haygarth on June 14, 2014, 11:30:59 am
Post by: John Haygarth on June 14, 2014, 11:30:59 am
It astounds me personally that people cannot live with the space in a 10cft fridge. How much food do we need to keep frozen/cold even if you are a fulltimer. We had the double door Dometic but find the Whirlpool plenty good enough for our 3-4 month road journey's, and we most probably are much further from stores a lot of the time that many of you fulltimers.
I challenge evryone to go thru' your fridge and document what REALLY has to be kept in the fridge (or what you can REALLY do without) and then see how big a unit you need!
If it is just that you WANT it then so be it, but most comments seem to be that they NEED the space??
I also think the money charged for fairly simple cabinet modifications to be atrocious.( Don's changes are NOT the norm, even in a Prevost coach cost).
I am glad I do not have to pay for such work.
JohnH
I challenge evryone to go thru' your fridge and document what REALLY has to be kept in the fridge (or what you can REALLY do without) and then see how big a unit you need!
If it is just that you WANT it then so be it, but most comments seem to be that they NEED the space??
I also think the money charged for fairly simple cabinet modifications to be atrocious.( Don's changes are NOT the norm, even in a Prevost coach cost).
I am glad I do not have to pay for such work.
JohnH
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Rudy on June 14, 2014, 11:48:16 am
Post by: Rudy on June 14, 2014, 11:48:16 am
I am with you John. We paid my local guy $659 parts and labor to slide out the fire hazard Dometic and slide in a 10 cu ft residential.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 14, 2014, 02:23:07 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 14, 2014, 02:23:07 pm
It astounds me personally that people cannot live with the space in a 10cft fridge. How much food do we need to keep frozen/cold even if you are a fulltimer. We had the double door Dometic but find the Whirlpool plenty good enough for our 3-4 month road journey's, and we most probably are much further from stores a lot of the time that many of you fulltimers.
I challenge evryone to go thru' your fridge and document what REALLY has to be kept in the fridge (or what you can REALLY do without) and then see how big a unit you need!
If it is just that you WANT it then so be it, but most comments seem to be that they NEED the space??
I also think the money charged for fairly simple cabinet modifications to be atrocious.( Don's changes are NOT the norm, even in a Prevost coach cost).
I am glad I do not have to pay for such work.
JohnH
It's not that we need a large refrigerator. Our two previous motorhomes had 8 cu-ft or so refrigerators, and we did just fine. But one trip to Costco will fill even the largest residential unit. What we don't wish to lose is storage space, as in the two cabinets below the current refrigerator with pull out shelves. A large residential unit would take these away, but a small 8-12 cu-ft unit would allow us to keep these plus add a side pantry (at more expense).
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John Haygarth on June 14, 2014, 05:57:23 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on June 14, 2014, 05:57:23 pm
Exactly what I did with the space left over- put in a slide out pantry. I know , I did it myself and some of you cannot. My total for complete reno of fridge area was under $400 matl included, so if you add some $500 for labour then now you are up to $1k plus the fridge of $350 or? We still have the lower cabinets plus now that pantry.
JohnH
JohnH
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on June 14, 2014, 06:43:07 pm
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on June 14, 2014, 06:43:07 pm
Due to the installation Michelle had, I am considering returning to have mine reinstalled lower so the refrig door misses the door track.
Yes I lost the cabinet area below the new refrig, but it was unusable for me & the lost area was made up with the extra space in the refrig. Stowing dry goods that are now reachable, so I now have more usable storage.
I sure do enjoy the space. But equally the ability to control temps on both sides. Easy keeping fresh produce a lot longer than the original box, freezer below zero, things stay wonderful.
I'm happy so who cares ?
Yes I lost the cabinet area below the new refrig, but it was unusable for me & the lost area was made up with the extra space in the refrig. Stowing dry goods that are now reachable, so I now have more usable storage.
I sure do enjoy the space. But equally the ability to control temps on both sides. Easy keeping fresh produce a lot longer than the original box, freezer below zero, things stay wonderful.
I'm happy so who cares ?
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Carol Savournin on June 14, 2014, 08:11:37 pm
Post by: Carol Savournin on June 14, 2014, 08:11:37 pm
I have looked and looked and thought and thought. I have come to the decision that I will be very happy with a smaller residential electric fridge rather than a full sized one. We will be in the coach for months at a time, but I tend to buy too much and then allow stuff to spoil when I have the room to store it. I would rather have another pull out pantry or a broom closet or whatever, and not lose the storage underneath the present fridge. From what I have seen of the actual smaller fridges (Dave Katsuki & Nancy Elkins, for example) they provide plenty of refrigerated space and a good sized freezer. FWIW.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 14, 2014, 08:40:55 pm
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 14, 2014, 08:40:55 pm
We learned early in our cruising sailboat years to make do without refrigeration since we had nothing but an ice box until we bought two solar panels and an Adler Barbour 12vdc system. Even then it overwhelmed our little 33-watt panels until I built a wind generator to augment the panels. It produced enough ice for each of us to have one "sundowner" every evening.
The bonus for us in changing to a residential refrigerator (now that we have the panels on and working) is an actual increase in cooling space. Just like on the boat.*
Ain't technology great. And we won't have to abandon the RV if the solar panels break! :D
Craig
* This is assuming that the fridge that will fit into our space manages to get delivered properly and works... there are some issues with the Avanti model we need according to Propman who has not managed to get the right one - or a working one - yet.
The bonus for us in changing to a residential refrigerator (now that we have the panels on and working) is an actual increase in cooling space. Just like on the boat.*
Ain't technology great. And we won't have to abandon the RV if the solar panels break! :D
Craig
* This is assuming that the fridge that will fit into our space manages to get delivered properly and works... there are some issues with the Avanti model we need according to Propman who has not managed to get the right one - or a working one - yet.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John Haygarth on June 14, 2014, 08:51:03 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on June 14, 2014, 08:51:03 pm
Craig, the whirlpool one (Heir ??sp) will go in your 225 as it is the same size as the 240 I had.(which I took out and installed correctly)
JohnH
JohnH
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 14, 2014, 08:57:49 pm
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 14, 2014, 08:57:49 pm
Craig, the whirlpool one (Heir ??sp) will go in your 225 as it is the same size as the 240 I had.(which I took out and installed correctly)
I would MUCH rather have the Whirlpool. Propman is having a real problem getting an Avanti installed. Can you tell me which model you have?
Craig
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John Haygarth on June 14, 2014, 09:05:25 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on June 14, 2014, 09:05:25 pm
I will go check it and let you know. Why not bring your coach up here and we can do it together, then I can give you a special rate of ONLY $1500 labour--he he
JohnH
whirlpool ET0MSRXTB02
JohnH
whirlpool ET0MSRXTB02
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 14, 2014, 11:28:53 pm
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 14, 2014, 11:28:53 pm
I will go check it and let you know. Why not bring your coach up here and we can do it together, then I can give you a special rate of ONLY $1500 labour--he he
JohnH
whirlpool ET0MSRXTB02
I can't find that model number. Wonder if it's Canadian. Your labour rate sounds terrific... I have a special checking account just for those sorts of deals. :P
Craig
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 15, 2014, 12:17:44 am
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 15, 2014, 12:17:44 am
Quote
whirlpool ET0MSRXTB02
The above is the fridge we purchased 2 years ago from Lowes for about $350 and installed it ourselves
Lowes no longer has this model, but has an almost identical Haier brand, that several Forum members have also installed.
24" x 58"
Don't need a professional to install.
Replacing an Absorbsion Refrigerator with a Residential unit in a 1997 U270 (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/Replacing%20an%20Absorbsion%20Refrigerator%20with%20a%20Residential%20unit/replacing_an_absorbsion_refrigerator_with_a_residential_unit_in_a_1997_u270.html)
Shop Whirlpool 9.6 cu ft Top-Freezer Refrigerator (White) at Lowes.com (http://www.lowes.com/pd_267488-46-ET0MSRXTQ_0__?productId=1076489)
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: rbark on June 15, 2014, 01:21:54 am
Post by: rbark on June 15, 2014, 01:21:54 am
That model is no longer available at Lowes >:(
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 15, 2014, 06:51:07 am
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 15, 2014, 06:51:07 am
Sadly this Haier refrigerator is showing discontinued at Lowes and AJ Madison - also not available at Amazon.com
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Dave and Nancy Abel on June 15, 2014, 08:07:31 am
Post by: Dave and Nancy Abel on June 15, 2014, 08:07:31 am
I can't find that model number. Wonder if it's Canadian. Your labour rate sounds terrific... I have a special checking account just for those sorts of deals. :P
Craig
new model: Whirlpool WRT111SFAB 24" Freestanding Refrigerators Black (http://www.appliancesconnection.com/whirlpool-wrt111sfab-i227400.html)
Good Luck, Dave A
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 15, 2014, 10:14:58 am
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 15, 2014, 10:14:58 am
This website indicates its been replaced by a newer model: Whirlpool ET0MSRXTB 24" Freestanding Refrigerators Black (http://www.appliancesconnection.com/whirlpool-et0msrxtb-i72234.html)
new model: Whirlpool WRT111SFAB 24" Freestanding Refrigerators Black (http://www.appliancesconnection.com/whirlpool-wrt111sfab-i227400.html)
Thanks for that link, Dave. Unfortunately that refrigerator is 5" higher and 1" wider than our openeing. Unless they've mis-labeled it (which is always possible... these guys assume that the appliance is for a SnB not an RV and can exaggerate dimensions to make it look larger).
Propman has his Dometic out and his space - in a U225 - is 23" wide and shorter than the space that Whirlpool takes up.
On Edit: Propman reported his opening is: "H55 3/4 W 23 D 26". That model says it is:
Dimensions and Weights
Width: 24"
Depth with Door Open 90 Degrees: 48 5/16"
Height To Top Of Cabinet: 60 3/4"
Height: 61 1/2"
Shipping Weight: 143 lbs.
They don't specify the actual depth... but the depthwith the door open 90-deg.
Craig
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John Haygarth on June 15, 2014, 10:37:52 am
Post by: John Haygarth on June 15, 2014, 10:37:52 am
We got ours at Nac Lowes and all I had to do was take off about 3/4" from top framing and slice a touch off of one side( for a 225 & 240). This now would be an easy do with an osilating saw that a very handy tool.
As Barry said you do not need a cabinet maker just some brains and a few tools. If you want to go the pantry way as well (in a 295 or 320) then that does need a bit more than just "handyman" label unless your standards are not too great I guess.. In the 225 this would not be an issue as you do not have the room for it anyway. I would plan on doing the extra dedicated inverter at the same time rather than just depend on rv site power supply and gen' all the time.
JohnH
As Barry said you do not need a cabinet maker just some brains and a few tools. If you want to go the pantry way as well (in a 295 or 320) then that does need a bit more than just "handyman" label unless your standards are not too great I guess.. In the 225 this would not be an issue as you do not have the room for it anyway. I would plan on doing the extra dedicated inverter at the same time rather than just depend on rv site power supply and gen' all the time.
JohnH
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 15, 2014, 05:59:43 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 15, 2014, 05:59:43 pm
Does anyone make a residential refrig about 12 - 13 cu ft that is the same width (~36") and height and depth as the Dometic 12cu ft side by side that came in our 2001 U320?
We like the idea of a residential refrig. Refrigerator space now is good. A better freezer setup would be nice. And we do use the space under the existing refrig.
Hidden unused spaces...
We discovered a lot of space under the J shaped dinette in the 2001s. The face covers just pop off and there it is.
The drawer boxes (3) in the front part of the kitchen L in the 36' can be 10" deeper. There is nothing behind them. It is a pretty simple change. The Bose box consumes another place where a fourth drawer can go.
Roger
We like the idea of a residential refrig. Refrigerator space now is good. A better freezer setup would be nice. And we do use the space under the existing refrig.
Hidden unused spaces...
We discovered a lot of space under the J shaped dinette in the 2001s. The face covers just pop off and there it is.
The drawer boxes (3) in the front part of the kitchen L in the 36' can be 10" deeper. There is nothing behind them. It is a pretty simple change. The Bose box consumes another place where a fourth drawer can go.
Roger
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 15, 2014, 06:15:56 pm
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 15, 2014, 06:15:56 pm
Width and depth are pretty standard (counter depth 35.xx wide, designed to fit in. 36" opening. Doubt you will find height thAt you need. Simple mode to remove current refridge and lower floor in cabinet to accommodate. Was 8 hours labor at Parliament coach, r and r refridge , do cabinet mods. Total $800 for that part of service. Using 3 batteries, factory pro-sine 2500 with no issues.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 15, 2014, 06:23:51 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 15, 2014, 06:23:51 pm
I have been scouring the internet for answers, and it appears nobody makes a refrigerator the same size as the Dometic New Dimensions (appropriately named) 1492. Depth and width are easy, height is the problem.
Unfortunately, my 38' coach doesn't have the pullout pantry seen in 40' coaches, so those two pullout shelves below the refrigerator are important to me.
If enough of us ask Dave at Sea Freeze to build a drop-in replacement, I bet they would add it to their standard sizes. Otherwise, they will custom build one for a ballpark guess of $3500-$4000. Not bad considering it would be big, need no inverter, and need no cabinet work.
Unfortunately, my 38' coach doesn't have the pullout pantry seen in 40' coaches, so those two pullout shelves below the refrigerator are important to me.
If enough of us ask Dave at Sea Freeze to build a drop-in replacement, I bet they would add it to their standard sizes. Otherwise, they will custom build one for a ballpark guess of $3500-$4000. Not bad considering it would be big, need no inverter, and need no cabinet work.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John S on June 16, 2014, 12:07:02 am
Post by: John S on June 16, 2014, 12:07:02 am
We do not have a pantry either but sacrificed our bottom shelf sand put the stuff either in the fridge or in a tote in the closet. Love the samsung and wish we did it years ago.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Caflashbob on June 16, 2014, 11:55:50 am
Post by: Caflashbob on June 16, 2014, 11:55:50 am
We do not have a pantry either but sacrificed our bottom shelf sand put the stuff either in the fridge or in a tote in the closet. Love the samsung and wish we did it years ago.
DW asked how the door is locked?
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Rudy on June 16, 2014, 02:07:43 pm
Post by: Rudy on June 16, 2014, 02:07:43 pm
Bob,
I believe JohnH has made a very nice lock for his unit. We use two stripes of blue painters tape when traveling. Pull them loose, get ice tea and reseal. Works great.
I believe JohnH has made a very nice lock for his unit. We use two stripes of blue painters tape when traveling. Pull them loose, get ice tea and reseal. Works great.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: bogeygolfer on June 16, 2014, 04:20:39 pm
Post by: bogeygolfer on June 16, 2014, 04:20:39 pm
Rudy showed me his "highly complex, and horribly expensive" locking mechanism last year. We've been using it ever since, with outstanding results :-)
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John Haygarth on June 16, 2014, 05:03:34 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on June 16, 2014, 05:03:34 pm
Pictures have been posted a few times before but it is a simple fix and locks both doors tight while travelling. Takes about 1 hr to make out of Aluminum, black paint and a 3" long 1/4" bolt. Just need a band saw or hacksaw, drill, vise and a file.
JohnH
JohnH
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on June 16, 2014, 05:14:38 pm
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on June 16, 2014, 05:14:38 pm
:o This red neck uses a highly complex short Bungee Cord, no marring or scratches ;D
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Roadrunner on June 16, 2014, 08:54:13 pm
Post by: Roadrunner on June 16, 2014, 08:54:13 pm
We used the the ever popular "two strips of blue painters tape" at first. Then DW says we had to get fancy so I upgraded to "two Velcro strips over 4 Velcro pads". Works very well and cheap to replace.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 16, 2014, 10:40:55 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 16, 2014, 10:40:55 pm
Hopefully, we'll have a replacement refrigerator on order soon. Just a few loose ends to tie up with the insurance company.
We like the idea of having Sea Freeze make a custom unit sized to fit the ndr1492 cutout. No slide out pantry, but nearly 16 cubic feet and no costly cabinet work. And it works'on 12 vdc, so no inverter wasting power when not needed.
And the latches look like they came off the 1949 Philco I grew up with, or the wooden ice box before that, so I won't need to stock up on blue tape.
The coach is at Temecula Valley RV Service, where the slide is being fixed, and then the refrigerator. Maybe even a front TV mod if I like their price.
We like the idea of having Sea Freeze make a custom unit sized to fit the ndr1492 cutout. No slide out pantry, but nearly 16 cubic feet and no costly cabinet work. And it works'on 12 vdc, so no inverter wasting power when not needed.
And the latches look like they came off the 1949 Philco I grew up with, or the wooden ice box before that, so I won't need to stock up on blue tape.
The coach is at Temecula Valley RV Service, where the slide is being fixed, and then the refrigerator. Maybe even a front TV mod if I like their price.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 16, 2014, 11:10:31 pm
Post by: wa_desert_rat on June 16, 2014, 11:10:31 pm
Hopefully, we'll have a replacement refrigerator on order soon. Just a few loose ends to tie up with the insurance company.
That sounds like a great decision. Wish I had the space (and funds) for that sort of a move. The inverter draw isn't an enormous problem but is nice to avoid if possible. Cold plate systems are a little more efficient I think.
And, after all, you can always just add the blue tape if you feel left out. :P
Craig
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 24, 2014, 04:18:31 am
Post by: Tom Lang on June 24, 2014, 04:18:31 am
Well, the coach has been at Temecula Valley RV Service for a week. I found out today it takes a week before they can even start work. The service writer has been too overworked to return my calls, but I got through today for found they will have one of the two techs who know Foretravel slides working on the slide, a general-purpose tech working on the Girard awning (it will take three weeks to get the new wind sensor), someone else working with the insurance company, and Sea Freeze is working on a quote for the refrigerator.
Hopefully I'll have something substantial to report soon.
Hopefully I'll have something substantial to report soon.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 24, 2014, 08:21:56 am
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 24, 2014, 08:21:56 am
Wow, not a great start! Good luck, keep us informed
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John S on June 24, 2014, 11:42:51 am
Post by: John S on June 24, 2014, 11:42:51 am
Wow that is a long time. I hear that all the time from folks but it has not been my experience in most places. I usually use the same shops and they can get you in the queue pretty quickly but they start when you get there. I wonder if you are being pushed back by not being with the unit.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: rbark on June 24, 2014, 01:12:51 pm
Post by: rbark on June 24, 2014, 01:12:51 pm
Tom, can't understand why it will take that long to get a wind sensor when there is a distributor for Girard in San Juan Capistrano.
Richard B
Richard B
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 24, 2014, 01:22:29 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 24, 2014, 01:22:29 pm
My service writer says Girard told her there was only one left in stock. By the time she got around to ordering, it was gone.
They snooze, I lose.
They snooze, I lose.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 24, 2014, 01:27:10 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 24, 2014, 01:27:10 pm
Wow that is a long time. I hear that all the time from folks but it has not been my experience in most places. I usually use the same shops and they can get you in the queue pretty quickly but they start when you get there. I wonder if you are being pushed back by not being with the unit.
Obviously, this place is not my first choice as an RV service provider, but the consensus is that they are my only choice for the slide problem short of a drive to NAC.
Staying with or even being in the coach is not allowed. The storage area is secured and customers are not permitted in the work area.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 26, 2014, 12:36:37 am
Post by: Tom Lang on June 26, 2014, 12:36:37 am
Prospects are looking up.
My overworked service writer gave two tasks to someone else, working with my insurance carrier and Sea Freeze on my refrigerator, and directing my front TV mod. It turns out this fella is a real go-getter. Oh, he also happens to be the owner.
Things are moving along now.
My overworked service writer gave two tasks to someone else, working with my insurance carrier and Sea Freeze on my refrigerator, and directing my front TV mod. It turns out this fella is a real go-getter. Oh, he also happens to be the owner.
Things are moving along now.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 29, 2014, 03:11:51 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 29, 2014, 03:11:51 pm
things are moving along now
The insurance company is deciding how little to pay. Looks like they want to pay for the damage done by the fire, excluding the cost of the cause of the fire, the cooling unit. Time for me to find a new insurance company.
David at Sea Freeze is in the loop. Looks like it will be a two door (top freezer) refrigerator every bit as big as the Dometic. This means too big for a DC powered Dan Foss compressor. The good news is that the AC Tecumseh compressor is more efficient, drawing only 1.6A when running. A couple of fans will be added, but this should still make it less than 2A. I'll need to either use the existing inverter or add a dedicated inverter. David says to go with 3KW to handle motor starts, but I think that would be way overkill. He also says these work with modified sine wave, but I believe it will be more efficient with a true sine inverter.
What remains to be seen is just how many Amp Hours of DC are used in a day. If it uses 2A for say six hours a day at 120VAC, this would be 120AH of 12VDC. My solar is on the fringe of handling this at the moment, peaking at 15A, but will improve when I add more panels. My goal is to be able to park the RV unused in the sun with the refrigerator running and come back a few days later with everything still cold and the batteries still charged. Camping, in the winter, running the LP furnaces, watching TV, using lights, ... I expect to run the generator on occasion.
The insurance company is deciding how little to pay. Looks like they want to pay for the damage done by the fire, excluding the cost of the cause of the fire, the cooling unit. Time for me to find a new insurance company.
David at Sea Freeze is in the loop. Looks like it will be a two door (top freezer) refrigerator every bit as big as the Dometic. This means too big for a DC powered Dan Foss compressor. The good news is that the AC Tecumseh compressor is more efficient, drawing only 1.6A when running. A couple of fans will be added, but this should still make it less than 2A. I'll need to either use the existing inverter or add a dedicated inverter. David says to go with 3KW to handle motor starts, but I think that would be way overkill. He also says these work with modified sine wave, but I believe it will be more efficient with a true sine inverter.
What remains to be seen is just how many Amp Hours of DC are used in a day. If it uses 2A for say six hours a day at 120VAC, this would be 120AH of 12VDC. My solar is on the fringe of handling this at the moment, peaking at 15A, but will improve when I add more panels. My goal is to be able to park the RV unused in the sun with the refrigerator running and come back a few days later with everything still cold and the batteries still charged. Camping, in the winter, running the LP furnaces, watching TV, using lights, ... I expect to run the generator on occasion.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: John S on June 29, 2014, 04:50:49 pm
Post by: John S on June 29, 2014, 04:50:49 pm
The auto start will take care of it if you get too low. I still wonder if a residential would not be a better answer though.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 29, 2014, 06:20:32 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 29, 2014, 06:20:32 pm
The auto start will take care of it if you get too low. I still wonder if a residential would not be a better answer though.
True about the autostart, although my solar power might prevent the autostart from triggering when the sun is shining.
I haven't committed one way or the other on the refrigerator. If this AC powered custom marine refrigerator ends up costing me too much, an off the shelf smaller marine refrigerator that runs off DC or a true residential model, either full size (counter depth) or apartment size could end up being our choice.
If insurance picks up most of the tab, we like the custom unit for keeping the cabinetry intact.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 30, 2014, 05:16:41 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 30, 2014, 05:16:41 pm
I might have an angle to play with the insurance company.
They want to say the cause of the fire was the cooling unit failing, so they will deduct the cost of the cooling unit from the award. I wonder if they deduct the cost of brakes if the brakes failing cause you to total your car?
I plan to explain the refrigerator was working fine with either propane or AC when, while of AC and connected to a 20A circuit through a long extension cord, something happened, probably a power surge. I thought the only casualty was the shore power contractor in the automatic transfer switch. I ran the refrigerator on propane for a week waiting for the contractor. After I had the transfer switch was repaired and the refrigerator connected to AC again, that very night, the failure of the cooling unit occurred, resulting in fire. My argument will be that the power surge damaged the electrical heating element (which is now clearly melted) or it's control circuitry, in turn causing an overheating of the cooling unit, releasing combustable gas.
We'll see how that flies. Knowing how Automobile Club of Southern California insurance works, I'll need a lot of luck. They tend to make an uneducated guess in their favor, and tell you that's the way it is.
After this is over, I need to find a better insurance carrier, unless they all do business this way.
They want to say the cause of the fire was the cooling unit failing, so they will deduct the cost of the cooling unit from the award. I wonder if they deduct the cost of brakes if the brakes failing cause you to total your car?
I plan to explain the refrigerator was working fine with either propane or AC when, while of AC and connected to a 20A circuit through a long extension cord, something happened, probably a power surge. I thought the only casualty was the shore power contractor in the automatic transfer switch. I ran the refrigerator on propane for a week waiting for the contractor. After I had the transfer switch was repaired and the refrigerator connected to AC again, that very night, the failure of the cooling unit occurred, resulting in fire. My argument will be that the power surge damaged the electrical heating element (which is now clearly melted) or it's control circuitry, in turn causing an overheating of the cooling unit, releasing combustable gas.
We'll see how that flies. Knowing how Automobile Club of Southern California insurance works, I'll need a lot of luck. They tend to make an uneducated guess in their favor, and tell you that's the way it is.
After this is over, I need to find a better insurance carrier, unless they all do business this way.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Tom Lang on June 30, 2014, 05:18:58 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on June 30, 2014, 05:18:58 pm
By the way, Sea Freeze is now leaning on two DC compressors rather than on AC compressor. With separate compressors for the refrigerator and freezer, it will be much esker to set the temperatures where I want them. And I will be able to turn the inverter off most of the time.
Title: Re: refrigerator woes
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on July 01, 2014, 10:03:50 am
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on July 01, 2014, 10:03:50 am
Tom, In General this is how insurance works...
The Insurance carrier is only obligated to return you to the same condition you were in before the incident.
If another incident occurs that leads to a loss the insurance company Normally pays the loss ( returns you to prior condition ) and then SUBROGATES against the thing that instigated the loss.
In other words carrier should repair or replace whatever it takes to return you to prior condition, THEN with your permission they will make demand on the manufacturer or installer of the refrigerator for their portion of the loss. If successful the other party will then reimburse the carrier for what ever expense they had in paying your loss. You should not be involved at all except to preserve evidence and authorize the carrier acting on your behalf.
If you make modifications or changes that are not the same as what you had before the loss you will probably be obligated to pay the difference. In a loss the size of yours a reasonable adjuster will ignore minor stuff.
Clear ? Probably not.
I would insist that insurance carrier pay total amount required to make repairs, than its their problem.
Keep in mind that I have been out of the business for several years and that there are new provisions that require mediation etc. that I did not have to deal with.
Gary B
The Insurance carrier is only obligated to return you to the same condition you were in before the incident.
If another incident occurs that leads to a loss the insurance company Normally pays the loss ( returns you to prior condition ) and then SUBROGATES against the thing that instigated the loss.
In other words carrier should repair or replace whatever it takes to return you to prior condition, THEN with your permission they will make demand on the manufacturer or installer of the refrigerator for their portion of the loss. If successful the other party will then reimburse the carrier for what ever expense they had in paying your loss. You should not be involved at all except to preserve evidence and authorize the carrier acting on your behalf.
If you make modifications or changes that are not the same as what you had before the loss you will probably be obligated to pay the difference. In a loss the size of yours a reasonable adjuster will ignore minor stuff.
Clear ? Probably not.
I would insist that insurance carrier pay total amount required to make repairs, than its their problem.
Keep in mind that I have been out of the business for several years and that there are new provisions that require mediation etc. that I did not have to deal with.
Gary B