Foretravel Owners' Forum

I finally finished with the installation of the marine style Danfoss compressor-based refrigerator. I got the new fridge from a local San Diego based Internet retailer (Bay Marine Supply) who had the best prices I could find on a number of items, including a new Magnum inverter. I got excellent service throughout and he was happy to contact the manufacturers when there was a question not readily answered by the literature or his own experience. Even though he doesn't have a show room per se, I was able to talk to him face to face and save the cost of shipping by picking up the items including the fridge. His name is Alan and he is (or was) a full timer with a sail boat.
http://baymarinesupply.com/store/refrigeration/marine-rv-refrigerators-icemakers/vitrifrigo-dp2600iac-marine-rv-refrigerator.html (http://baymarinesupply.com/store/refrigeration/marine-rv-refrigerators-icemakers/vitrifrigo-dp2600iac-marine-rv-refrigerator.html)
 My inability to leave well enough alone resulted in more than a little extra work... The old fridge went out the door on our 99' coach with just the removal of the screen door and the copilot chair. The new one came in the same way, but with a different method. I managed to do the moving myself as no one was around when I was ready to do it. Not easy by any means, and getting the old one out was by far the most difficult. I didn't take the doors off, but it probably would have been a little easier. My first idea to get it out was to strap it to a dolly and use a ramp. The difficulty was to get the fridge positioned in the door way around the center dash protrusion. Anyway, I ended up placing the fridge and dolly combo upright on the extended step cover (blocking the door way of course!), and then shimmying out the window to address the situation from below. The ramp was positioned on the bottom of the coach's step well leaving a vertical gap of about 20" or so above the ramp. The old fridge just cleared the top of the door way, but couldn't be tilted back because of the dash protrusion. I ended up putting a sturdy plastic crate at the top of the ramp and working the fridge (still attached to the dolly!) on top of it. This actually worked pretty well and I was able to slide the fridge down the ramp on top of the crate. A F I K, there are no videos this operation posted on YouTube for that I am grateful...
Anyway, bottom line was I got it out wit out damaging anything. I put the fridge out in front of the coach with a free sign on it, and within 15 minutes, someone claimed it. I plugged it in to A/C and gave it 12VDC to be sure it survived the extraction (think tooth extraction...) and was pretty cold within an hour. The new owner is a happy camper and I was glad to be rid of it.
 The new one was much easier to move in than the old one was out for two reasons. One because it was almost 8 inches shorter, and two because I used a harbor freight lift table to transfer it horizontally onto the step cover. From there I just walked it corner to corner on a piece of cardboard until I was clear of the  dash protrusion. I used a furniture dolly and an old milk crate and a few pieces of 2 x 4 create a platform about the same height as the fridge shelf in the opening. The main issue with the install was that I miscalculated the height of the opening believing that the dimensions given for the refrigerator were the rough opening size. Even though I took some measurements and adjusted the height, I neglected to allow for the bumps of a couple of screws on the top flange. Since the refrigerator sits on some rubber feet as well as being screwed in along the flange, it was difficult to get a precise measurement of the actual height of the fridge and the clearance needed unless the refrigerator is sitting on the floor (which it wasn't while in the coach). So I ended up having to chew off about eighth of an inch on the top piece of trim to make it easier to get in and out. I could've forced in but I was afraid it might distort the case making the doors seal less well, so it seemed better to enlarge the opening slightly. This proved to be difficult because of the toughness of the oak trim piece. The end result wasn't as clean and tidy as I would like, but it doesn't show underneath the flange of the new refrigerator anyway. I did some fairly extensive mods on the inside of the fridge cubby including adding a drawer box for storage underneath the fridge, adding insulation, and lining the cubby with .032" aluminum sheet metal. I will detail these modifications in further posts in this thread with pictures etc. This is really not a "how-to" thread, but more of a how I did it... I doubt that many forum members will be that interested in minutia of my installation, but anybody who wants more detail or has questions, feel free to ask and I will address them as best I can.

Don

I love minutia..!!

Don I look forward to reading your detailed posts, so please keep them coming John.

Don,

What advantages do you see for the 12/120 marine unit over a residential unit with sine wave inverter (and half the cost)?

I just checked the Killawatt meter on our Frigidaire 10 cu.ft run amps .76

Don, looking good. Next time you need more hands, give me a call.

 Richard B

Since I need to do something with my torched NDR1492, I am looking into all options.  If Dometic opts to pay for the repairs, I just might keep the 1492 and add better fire protection.  Otherwise, i am considering compressor driven units.

My problem with residential units, and available marine units, is that cabinet mods are required, along with possible loss of the storage space under the 1492.  If I go with the insurance claim, and the insurance company cuts a check to cover the expense of a new but doesn't quite fit RV refrigerator plus extensive cabinet mods, then I may go with a residential unit or something from Sea Freeze.

I got a call back from Sea Freeze, and they have made custom refrigerators that fit in the same space as my 1492, either with freezer on the left and double doors, or freezer above or below, so long as there is enough room to open the door.  It is a mite bit expensive, with a ballpark quote of $3500 to $4000, but the good news is that the cabinets remain intact and the cubic feet are the same or more than the 1492. And this would probably be in the range of the insurance payout.

He says in 70 degree weather, the expected power usage per day is 80AH, and this is with 3" of insulation.  It would improve with 4" of insulation. I figure if the temperature is much higher than that, I will be plugged in or using the generator for air conditioning, so power usage won't matter much.  Even my minimal solar capability would produce 13A over a good 6 hours even in the winter, which would just about take care of the refrigerator.  And I have a couple more panels waiting to install.

Brett, rather than typing out something I posted about before in another thread awhile back, I'll just quote it here...

Thanks, Don.

Brett

 Wow, makes me realise how little we finished up paying for our cheapo Whirlpool and the cost (me) of install + inverter addition, and, we finished up with a great slide out pantry. Total cost around$750.
It is working out better than I thought and the solar has no problem running it and anything else we want!! We even use it as an extra fridge here at home if Ruth is doing a lot of cooking with friends coming (and of course cooling the wine and Beer too).
JohnH

@Don Nice work. Need some pics of the new fridge in place though. :) Also how do you power the 12v? Are the 12v wires to the old fridge large enough to power the new?

see ya
ken

Pictures coming soon... but to answer your question about the 12v, the old wires that were in place for the old fridge are 10 gauge and plenty capable of powering the fridge. My guess is that Foretravel sized these wires for three-way fridges... in any case, wires are plenty adequate to run the 5 1/2 amps or so max that the refrigerator will draw when running on 12vdc. I don't want to give away the show for this thread ;D , But here is one picture of the fridge installed... A bit unfinished looking at this point because I haven't made the drawer as yet, but I think it looks pretty OEM. I removed the room raised panel oak inserts from the doors of the old fridge for future use...
Don

Don,
Very nice. Enjoy it. Where did you get the ".032" aluminum sheet metal."?
The fridge i ordered from Amazon is arriving tomorrow morning. I plan on installing it this weekend.
I am struggling to pick / find a inverter. I will check to see what Bay Marine Supply has.

Great job Don.

I got the aluminum sheet metal (as well as all the stainless for the utility bay and steel tubing etc. for the basement/bulkhead repair from Industrial Metal Supply in San Diego. Prices much better than Home Depot etc., not to mention they have a huge selection in house and will even cut to yours specs + or - to 32nd".
http://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/Default.aspx (http://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/Default.aspx)
Don

What do the experts say about using exterior air to cool the condenser rather than interior air? Is this a problem when the outside air temperature is well over 100?

I am no expert, but it seems to me that all of those residential refrigerators that have been put in, but where the external vent is still in place are testing that scenario. They may draw air in from the front but the coils are exposed to ambient air temperatures outside. I suppose time will tell. Incidentally, the same style but usually a smaller version of the Danfoss BD50 compressor that is in our new fridge, is used in the typical basement Dometic etc. fridge/freezers that many have in their coaches.
Don

I just got a 12vdc muffin fan to evacuate air from that space behind the refrigerator. I'm especially concerned because the inverter is in the vaccum cleaner space now and when we start running the residential fridge that could put warmer air into those spaces than the system would like. The fan I got is jeweled bearings and about 8" square. Haven't tried to figure out exactly where it will go but I'm sure I'll come up with something. :D

Craig

  Ours does not draw in from front as I sealed it off with black silicone around there. Did not want real cold air coming into inside of coach in winter. I also closed off the roof vent that was there for Dometic and put one of the regular roof vents in instead. So far so good as we do not live in it except for around 3 months a year.
JohnH

After removal of the old fridge, I was able to see the inside of the fridge cabinet. Since the new fridge is ¾" or so narrower than the Dometic it replaced, I could see that I would have to add some trim to the side of the cabinet for the flange screws to have something to grip. The first step was to determine where the shelf under the fridge needed to be to give the maximum space for a drawer box underneath and tight enough on top to have enough meat for the screws at the top of the flange. As I wrote in the post above, I cut that a little too close... Once I determined where the shelf needed to be, I cut the blue styrofoam at the bottom to reveal what structure there was to attach shelf supports. As it happens, the two sides are framed differently. Hmm... I started on the easiest side which was the left, or the area behind the bathroom cabinet. This wall is hollow and provides the space for one of the two roof vents that serve the waste water plumbing. I used 2X2 furring stock (1.5"X1.5") to bring the left side of the drawer box/fridge shelf support flush with something to attach to.

Since the back of the refrigerator compartment is exposed the outside, I consider this area as indoor/outdoor and thus all of the raw wood will need to be protected from the elements. In addition, all avenues to the inside of the coach need to be sealed with caulking. Since the refrigerator is sitting up on a shelf to create space for a drawer, that means the drawer box needs to be sealed at the back and the area behind it will need to provide enough air flow for the compressor coils. This along with the depth of the refrigerator and the location of the back mounting feet is how I determine how deep to make the drawer box and shelf. The fact that I wanted to seal the area against the elements is what made me decide to use aluminum sheet metal to line the compartment, the shelf, and the ceiling area above the refrigerator. Therefore, I needed to make besides of the compartment uniform. To do this, I took some of the blue Styrofoam I removed at the beginning of the process and patched it in to gaps. For instance the area behind the Kool-O-Matic fan thermostat was a void and the wires were proud of the framing. I notch the framing slightly and routed the wires through the notch using some gorilla tape to keep them there well I cut Styrofoam to fit around the wires. I cut pieces of the blue Styrofoam to it the rest of the gaps and glued it in. Now I had some flat walls to which I could add some more insulation in the form of rigid polyurethane foam boards that are foil backed. To this I use some strong spray contact cement of the $17 a can  variety, and laminated the aluminum sheet metal to it. Sticking the sheet metal to the phone was a tricky business at the campground on a very windy day... anyway, I managed to get that done.
Since I wanted to cover the shelf and the vertical partition at the back of the drawer box with the aluminum sheet, I was glad that I previously purchased a cheap harbor freight tools sheet-metal brake when I did my utility compartment. While it was barely able to bend the 22 gauge stainless steel are used on that project and then only with rounded edges, it was a cinch to bend the aluminum sheet into nice crisp shapes. To backtrack a little, I had used 1/8 inch oak veneer plywood to make the refrigerator door panel inserts, but they felt a little loose in the channels provided to hold the inserts. The channels were not wide enough for quarter inch material, and I figured the eighth inch material would be a little bit floppy floating around in the wider channel so I laminated.032 inch aluminum sheet to the back of these panels before I slid them in. It was a fairly snug fit to get them in, but the whole door feels much more solid now. Are you still left over from that phase of the project to supplement the other sheet aluminum I had to seal up all the little looks and crannies in the fridge compartment and for which I also use the aluminum tape on seems. I still have one little section of wood worthier cabling runs down on the right rear corner of the refrigerator compartment. I will send a piece of flashing to fit that section after I run the solar wires down from the solar panels. Anyway, I bent the bottom shelf with a ½" lip at the front to tuck in to the space between the oak frame and the three-quarter inch Baltic Birch shelf material. I then measured carefully the depths of the shelf and put a 90° bend there as well. The measurements from there to the original refrigerator support was an eighth inch off from one side to the other, so I simply apply those measurements at the sheet-metal brake and put in another 90° lip. I was originally going to screw this to the original refrigerator shelf, but the shelf itself was rigid enough and fit tightly enough to make this unnecessary. I merely put three screws across the back and caulked all the way around. It laid nice and flat, And with the way to the refrigerator sitting on top of it, It wasn't going anywhere.

Next I glued the aluminum laminated insulation panels to the insides of the compartment on both sides and then at the top. Most of the rear of the refrigerator compartment was already covered by an extra inch and a half of insulation back with a fiberglass sheet. To this, I added about 10 inches of the same installation below that and use some of the fiberglass sheet pieces that I removed from the sides to bring the surface out level and that I laminated some aluminum sheet metal to and taped with aluminum duct tape along seams. The .032" aluminum sheet metal pieces that I got from IMS were 2'X4' and so not quite tall enough to go all the way to the ceiling, so I added about an 8" strip at the top and taped the seams with aluminum tape. I could have gotten a 4'X8' sheet, but the 2'X4' sections were much easier to transport and handle. Sheet metal is available at IMS in a variety of sizes and materials including 2' x 4' 4' x 4'4 x 8' in some cases other sizes as well. This is also where I got the stainless steel for my utility compartment project as well as all of the structural steel I used in the bulkhead repair and basement rebuild project. I LOVE THAT PLACE!

I was going to keep the refrigerator propane supply tube for possible future use, but in the end I cut it off because it ended up getting kinked while I was moving it around to work back there. So I just sawed it off close to the deck and then pulled it down through the hole from below and left it loose in the furnace cubby. Currently the propane tank main valve is off, and I just need to find out which one of the manifold feeds is the one feeding the fridge line. I will then cap off and label the other ones for future need. Looking towards the outside from the furnace cubby while the sun was setting on that side of the coach, I could see quite a bit of light coming around the wiring passing through the original fridge shelf into the propane furnace cubby. I cleaned up the caulking around the cabling with acetone and put some 3M 5200 Quick cure around the wires. I also put a piece of aluminum sheet over where the propane tubing had penetrated the shelf use some 5200 on that as well. Previously I had installed a fire suppression system in that compartment which you'll no longer be needed there. I had made an aluminum mounting block to fire suppression system on, and since I don't need that there anymore, I just used the already threaded hole in the mounting block to secure the terminal strip that connects the old 12VDC wires to the new fridge. Given the outdoor nature of the compartment, I decided to put some weather coverage over the AC outlet which I always felt was kind of exposed to moisture and the elements. Eventually I will change out that duplex outlet with a GFCI fixture. Now all I have left to do is make the drawer which will be about 23" wide by 6" high and 18 inches deep.
Don

Here are the final pictures of the installation with the Sheetmetal installed...
Don

Woww Woww Woww! Very nice!

I am not having a good time ... The Fridge I ordered from Amazon (3th one delivered) brand new out of the box is not working.
I have 4 weeks left to find a  56' x 23 x 26 fridge. I'll figure something.

That is a bummer Al! Dealing with shipping on these large and heavy items is a real pain. Good luck in your search.
Don

Which one did you order?

Don,

When would you like to do mine? That looks betteer than professional.

Tom

Thanks for the compliment Tom! Unfortunately sometimes these days the word professional just means that they work fast and that you pay for it. Always a pleasure when you run into an outfit like Xtreme that puts quality first...
Don

Avanti RA7316PST from Amazon. 4th one is on the way.

You bet Richard! Thanks for the offer... ^.^d
Don

Don, When I installed our new stove with oven I removed the two lower drawers to make room for the stove.  I still have one if you want it.  Oak front is 22" x 8-1/2".  Free!

Al

Al,
That is a mighty kind offer! I believe that I might like to take you up on that... I take it that you are in Livingston, TX? I could PaPal you the amount to ship to San Diego. My email is in my profile if you want to send me a message and I will reply with my shipping address. The Zip is 91977.
Thanks, Don

We've all got to find another coach for Don so he can begin a new remodel-job. What are we going to do for entertainment when he's finally finished with the current one? :D

I think it will be a loooong time before Don is finished with his mods! :D

A few posts back I asked Don if he wants to do mine.  He didn't answer. Does that mean NO?

Silence is golden ::)

Don,

As usual I am amazed and speechless. Propman printed what I was saying while reading the posts. Truly a work of art.

Larry

Don you truly are a professional. I appreciate reading and viewing your work. Anyone can be a slammer; but true professional are rare. John

Just refused deliver of the 4th & final Avanti fridge from Amazon. Its freezer door was banged up.
I am going to go ahead and buy something from Sears locally and have to ask our carpenter Cousin to do what he does best. We need to increase the height for 4' to get to 60'. With that we can fit most any 10cuft fridge in there.

Old topic, but as we're planning on installing the same fridge I really appreciate all the details!  Beautiful job. :-)

Now that you've had the DP2600 installed for awhile, how do you feel about the choice?  Any problems or things that you would have done differently?  When we talked to Dave about installing it today he mentioned that normally they leave the vent in place both to provide ventilation for the coils as well as access to the back to clean them.  Thoughts?

James

Thanks for the compliment James. We are happy with our choice... So much quieter than any residential unit I have ever been next to. As you can see from the pictures looking in from the outside, I kept the vent intact. For access, cleaning, running solar cabling (I am in the process of changing the plastic roof vent for a new metal one as I am prepping for my solar install), and it can't hurt to have a nice convection airflow past the compressor coils. I can't think of anything I would have done differently as I obsessed over the details before hand. The extra space below is a drawer boxe completely sealed from the elements. I can easily remove the fridge because it slides on the smooth aluminum sheetmetal which covers the ¾" Baltic birch plywood shelf the fridge sits on. The flange holds the fridge securely (love the way oak holds screws!) and silicone weatherstripping is applied to the flange all the way around, so the fridge completely seals off the outside elements without caulking. The fridge is a simple design and the build quality is good. The compressor is easily serviced from outside, even thoug the back of the drawer box lifts it about 8" or so above the bottom of the vent. The usable space makes the fridge seem twice as capacious as the nearly identically specced Domtetic it replaced... So, yes I am quite satisfied with our results.
Don

Great to hear, thanks!  I'm still kind of in shock that Susan and Elizabeth both panned the Samsung and much preferred the smaller Vitifrigo.  We've been using the Dometic for a couple months now and they are both happy with the size, just hate the layout, side-by-side etc. 

I mentioned to Dave the desire to run a conduit up to the vent for the same reason, shouldn't be a problem.  Might be a bit until we can get the solar installed, but laying the ground work as we go should make the actual installation a lot less painful. Can't wait. :-)

James

I've got a question for you, Don.  My absorption fridge has been freezing up quite a bit due to the sub-zero temps here ( and is annoying me quite a bit) so I'm wondering how the Vitrifrigo unit works regarding this. 

Are you able to completely seal up the top and bottom vents that were required for the absorption fridge?  Did I read that the Vitrifrigo vents out the front of the unit?

Robert, we haven't been in sub-zero temps since I installed the Vitrifrigo fridge, so I can't speak from experience as to freezing coils. However, I would find it pretty easy to seal up the rear vent (or the top one for that matter), using some polyurethane foam board insulation. The Vitrifrigo vents out the back, so I think that while it might be desirable to cover the back vent in extremely cold temperatures (like say a new ice age, because otherwise I can't see us being anywhere that cold!), it would probably be good to leave a small opening at the top vent. I wouldn't want to permanently seal either opening because the rear vent gives me good access to the fridge mechanism and wiring, and the removable top vent lets me access the solar cable run.
Don

@Robert

Have you tried running on propane instead of 120? We had a seminar from Paul Unmack the maker of the ARPrv Control here at Q. ARPrv | RV Refrigerator | Dometic Install | Norcold Install | RV Fire (http://www.arprv.com) He said the absorption refrigerators are the most efficient when run on propane. Propane burns hotter than electric. You might want to give it a try.

see ya
ken

   

First, if frost in the fridge portion is your main concern, just get a little fan to circulate the air. I bought mine from RVcoolingunit.com. , http://rvcoolingunit.com/Dometic-Evaporator-Fan-Greater-inside-Cooling-Deluxe-Model-P2428153.aspx. It has completely eliminated frost in the fridge.

Also, if you are also having cooling problems, I recently installed an Amish cooling unit in our Domectic 7030 fridge. While doing so I also installed two fans on the coils in the back compartment. I wired them two ways, always-on or to turn on only when the included thermostat called for cooling. I initially had them set for always-on but when we got in cooler weather, I noticed that the fridge was not getting as cold as it was in hot weather. I called the factory and was told that the unit needed some heat back in the coils to cool properly so I should use the thermostat for the fans in all but the hottest weather. When we hit really cool weather I turned the fans off completely and the fridge got even colder.

Based on this experience I am wondering if in very cold temperatures it would help to add heat to the back of the fridge or even seal off the bottom door until temps become more moderate. For safety, I would also turn off the gas to the fridge and run it only on electric if I sealed off the vent door.

Right now the freezer is at -6 degrees with no coil fans on and the fridge is set on the median #3 temperature setting. Exterior temps have been ranging from 34 degrees up to 75 degrees. With the old factory set up I never saw freezer temps below -2 degrees so the Amish cooling unit is working better than the original OEM Dometic cooling unit. Of course the Dometic fridge was 12 years old when we bought the coach.

I have read many posts from alot of members who have repaired or replaced with a residential unit. My present fridge is still working fine however being 20 years old I think I'm on borrowed time. My plan is to go residential. Why did some of you add batteries and another inverter. I seldom dry camp and I have a 2000 watt inverter and with the residential unit using less electricity why not just plug it into the eisting 110v plug. 

Well to give you my reason for adding an extra battery/better ones, it was because of the solar and using it instead of shore power. The reason for the smaller extra inverter-1000watt- was again because of living off my batteries and trying to cut down any losses of wasted amps etc therefore giving us a longer time and less chance of running down said batteries before sun (and charging ) comes up. The 1000 w one uses less standby power (loss) than the big 2500 w one and it only controls the fridge/tv etc/ and 2 plugs.
This was copied from Beamalarm/ Modifications article and by far a sensible thing in my case.
JohnH

Ken, the propane section of my fridge isn't working right now.  I suspect I need a new circuit board but I've been leaning more towards not wanting to sink any money into a near 20 year old fridge.  Maybe I'll try it though.

Kent, I had a 200 watt Lasko heater in behind the fridge, which is also sealed up, but it didn't do anything.  The fridge did start working yesterday when the temperature got up into the high 20s which I guess is warm enough for the ammonia and water solution to not freeze. 

It was actually quite a bit colder last year but for some reason the fridge seems to be far more picky about the temperature this winter.  Maybe it is possible that there is damage or degradation that builds up over time from freezing up?

John did you locate the inverter by the existing one an run separate feeds to the tv and fridge. 

Joe, see

Additional Inverter (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/additional_inverter.html)

for an article about adding a second inverter.

Great idea.

Roger and John thank you for your suggestions its starting to make sense to me.

Joe, I put mine under bed end too, as have the 12v handy for the heavier connections. I also put the main switch breaker on end of bed along with the D.P D Throw switch. Wired it up to the circuit that is one of feeds to Fridge rear compartment and this one also feeds the tv etc. I did change the tv/stereo wiring behind tv to go thru a switch tha allows me to turn off the power to these items to again save power wastage and that switch is  mounted inside tv cabinet but lever shows thru it so easy access to turning it off. Really happy with it all. I have lately added another outlet box from under the couch (which is also on this circuit) and placed that on right side of cabinet drawers and we use the USB outlets in it to charge phones and tablet etc. So even when no 120v is coming from main inverter we can still charge needed things.
JohnH

Thanks John, something you need to know I am the type of person that I like things simple. Thats my main reason for choosing Foretravel quality and ease of operation. I also understand what you did and why. I am not sure in my case and usage that I have the same requriement.  I appreciate  your method and as I move forward that second inverter may just be the ticket.