Was wondering if their is an LED upgrade for the 24 some odd halogen under mount lights in our Coach? If so , any suggestions on best place to find them?
Thanks .
Heathers a bunch on Amazon watch them from Chinding lots of 10 were really cheap seem to work I bought the warm white disorder like a disk with LEDs on the plug into the Halogen bases
LED for Puck Lights (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=21340.msg158710#msg158710)
You folks are terrific! Thanks. Now if I can remove the covers without them disintegrating!
I just ordered 4 ceiling lights from Foretravel Parts. 2 are smaller and fit in a 2" hole and 2 are bigger (4 1/2" diameter) that fit in a 3" hole. These are the lights they are using in current coaches. The smaller ones are $15 something and the bigger ones $18 something. They have glass lenses not plastic.
I priced out getting new brushed chrome trim rings to replace the brass ones (trying to change the decor) and then the LED bulbs to replace the halogen bulbs (after permanent modification) and the FT OEM parts don't seem too bad.
I'll check them out, see how much light they put out and how many amps they draw.
They might be a good choice especially with a Motorcade Discount.
Roger
Sounds like it could add up quick... Wonder what advantage there is in replacing entire fixture vs bulb only? I can see new covers if these crack which seems to be likely already . Am I incorrect in thinking I gently pry covers loose?
I have done all my Halogens and flourescents too and love them. Use about 1/50th the power so if you want your battery to last a lot longer(if you do not have solar and boondock) then this is the way to go. Simple change over and NO more burned out or hot fixtures.
JohnH
The light rings need to be turned counter clockwise to be removed.
Went to Super Bright website after hours, the G4-WWHP 12 DAC isn't in production. Wondering if any bulb with the G4 designation would work?
A couple of things to look for
G4 is the bi-wire base. If that's the type of halogen bulb you have (usually is), that would "technically" work if 12V (and you likely need side-pin rather than back-pin).
Next, voltage range. LEDs are sensitive devices. Look for a range of operating voltages (say 8-30 Vdc). That will mean there is constant current driver capability and the LEDs will last MUCH longer in an RV environment.
Next, color temperature as expressed in degrees Kelvin. 2700 will be closest to the warm white of the halogens. 5000 will resemble a cool white fluorescent. It's a matter of personal preference (we strongly prefer warm white).
Then, lumens. Higher is brighter.
Lastly, CRI or color-rendering-index. Higher is better (more true to color).
I have tried the G4 base LED bulbs that are about the sme size as the existing halogen bulbs. No where near enought light. There are other G4 based LED lights but most are bigger and don't fit. Some have suggested taking out the heat sink of the existing ceiling lamps nd fitting in an LED bulb that will fit.
New trim rings if you want to change to look are about $11. $3 or $4 for a bulb. Time for each lamp? Pretty quickly the new lamps look pretty reasonable especially if the existing lamps can be used by someone else. If you have seen the glass lensed lamps they are using now they seem to be a good choice. Lots of light.
I found something similar with a plastic lens and unknown output from a China supplier for about $9 each, in lots of 10. Part of the issue is getting replacements after a year or two.
I will see what they look like and report.
Roger
Hope all goes smoothly on your project. May very well follow suit when your finished. Man alive these things are HOT!Previous owner almost burned our Coach to the ground when his grandkid knocked a pillow off the bed onto the nightstand where it contacted light! Think the trouble removing rings is due in large part to heat welding /deteriorating the plastic where it touches the fixture.
try amazon they have good prices on leds replaced all the lights in our 98 u 295
Jim,
Examples? I am a big Amazon fan but haven't found much that I like for fixtures.
Roger
I have found these to be the same (at least very close) to color and intensity of the OEM halogen lights I had in my motorhome.
- LED-606WW from All Electronics | Electronic and Electro-Mechanical Parts and Supplies at (http://www.allelectronics.com/index.php?page=seek&id%5Bm%5D=pattern&id%5Bq%5D=LED-606WW)
Price was pretty good too.
My greatest difficulty was inserting any bulb when the receptacle two prong holes were facing towards a wall. Very hard to align. A mirror and headlamp helps a lot though.
Were you reusing the original lenses/rings? The foretravel deals may end up being the best route for us as these seem pretty well deteriorated!
I reused my rings after replacing the halogens bulbs with LED's. I either broke a couple or discovered the broken trim rings. I don't particularly like it but I really don't wish to change out all of them for the missing 2. I will say that I am happy with the LED's. Those trim rings are a booger to get off. Maybe the heat from the halogens has caused them to deteriorate?
Most everything is on ebay.
The bulbs over the dinette were too much for my budget, everything else was reasonable.
The round wafer G4 2W 5050 9SMD LED NON POLAR READING DC 12V soft white are sometime hard to locate but they plugin without modification and waay cooler than halogen...
LED tube lights??
Replacing the courtesy bulb (entry handle) was a good move.. pc
I tried these in the puck lights in the coach. Fits well and is bright. Color not quite as warm as halogen, has a bit more yellow in it.
LED Lights, Bulbs & LED Lighting Accessories - SUPER BRIGHT LEDS (http://www.superbrightleds.com/)
Part #: G4-WWHP9-DAC
Keith
Tried this type. They really don't fit in the halogen ceiling lamps in the 2001 coach. There is just enough room for the halogen bulb. Some have modified these by removing the heat sink to make more room. They are still $9+ each. My samples from Foretravel will be here tomorrow. I will report.
Roger
There are (too) many types of these led g4 puck "bulbs". Next time I plan to buy the right type.
Many of them only contain LEDs and resistors. These are usually called 12 volt lamps. Not the best to use in a system where the alternator might send a higher voltage to the 12 volt system.
Look for LEDs that claim a voltage range, like 10 - 30 volts. These should have voltage regulator integrated circuits, and probably an inductor if they have switching regulators.
I found some where the LEDs have lenses. These are too thick to fit without removing the reflector.
The ones with 9 LEDs are often 25mm diameter, a better fit than 30mm 12 led models.
Color wise, white tends towards blue and warm white tends towards yellow-green. I slightly prefer warm white.
I find the leads difficult to insert into the socket, and much more fragile than the steel leads on halogen bulbs. They are soldered to the PC board and easy to break off.
Thanks Roger , cant wait to hear how they work! sounds like a deal where for 50 percent or less more money we get a much better and easier install with better lenses!
I realize that these may not fit the 2001 (fit my 1996). I personally like the disc type with the smd leds a little better, but do have some of these and they work fine in my puck lights. These are a little different shape and they may be helpful. I bought some similar to these and so far so good (have had about a year). This a listing off ebay.com. They are also inexpensive.
G4 1.5W High Power SMD LED Cabinet Marine Boat Light Bulb Lamp Warm White 12V
I like the form factor, very much like the halogen bulb.
I like the prism to direct the light.
But I'll pass on this one because it is 12 volt only and appears to waste a lot of power in a series dropping resistor. 1.5 watt is a lot of power to produce a meet 80 lumens of light.
I plan to buy this one:
New G4 AC/DC 12V 5050 3528 5730 SMD LED Car Boat Light Pure/Warm White Bulb Lamp
By checking other sellers for specs and looking at the photos, I believe this is 300 lumens using 1.7 watts of power and has a switching regulator for efficiency and a capacitor to reduce ripple (flicker).
I ordered one of these from Super Bright (G4-WWHP 12 DAC) and installed it this weekend ... you can't tell the difference between it and the halogen. I just ordered 15 more this afternoon.
Jimmy
1998 U295 36ft
$9.00 a bulb unless I buy 50. If these covers don't cooperate We could be looking at north of $15.00 real quick!
LED ceiling lights from Foretravel.
These are the lights currently in production use at Foretravel. They have frosted glass lenses.
4.5" 3000°K 360 Lumens 8.3 watts (these need a bigger hole, about 3.5") $18+ - discount
3" 3000°K. 160 Lumens 3.6 watts (these fit in the existing holes) $15+ - discount (might be on Amazon)
Front side, back side, halogen existing lamp near front door, 3" LED lamp in the same place, color chart.
Easy to put in. We were surprised at the amount of light from the 3" lamp. The glass lens spreads the light out nicely.
These LEDs at 3000°K are a bit whiter than the halogen incumbent and are closer to the LED replacements for the fluorescents that we put in. As we get older we seem to need a bit more light and these might be just the ticket.
I will try to get better pictures.
Roger
The smaller lamps are available at Amazon $12.65 with spring mounts, $12.03 with screw mounts
Amazon.com: ITC (69231B-3K-DB) 3" Radiance LED Overhead Light/Spring Mount: (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B00ISLQX18/ref=s9_wish_co_d1_g263_i1?ie=UTF8&colid=1QNXTNF680FG2&coliid=IVQFVEXFSN14J&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=left-1&pf_rd_r=0C78MJVVD90YP2Z5VT7R&pf_rd_t=3201&pf_rd_p=1774862042&pf_rd_i=typ03)
A couple of dimmers are available as well. This one is pretty nice.
Amazon.com: ITC (21030-BKBNBK-DB) Black LED Digital Dimmer: Automotive (http://amazon.com/ITC-21030-BKBNBK-DB-Black-Digital-Dimmer/dp/B00K2MYPMU/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1403823908&sr=1-1&keywords=Itc+dimmer)
These come from ITC RV in Indiana.
http://itc-rv.com (http://itc-rv.com)
Nice site, lighting, plumbing and more.
I am going to try out a dimmer. If all is OK then I am all in.
Roger
That settles it! just ordered 10. We'll do bedroom then front of coach later. Bathroom can ride for foreseeable future.
What are these lights intended to replace?
best, paul
I have been using Dimmers on my LED lights since I changed them over. Not the fancy ones Roger is getting as did not see them 2 yrs ago but Digital rotary that work fine. At low low light you do see a slight flickering but I just turn it past that and all is fine. LED's have to be able to accept low to high voltage's of course.
JohnH
I am replacing the ceiling halogen lights in the LR to start as well as the two lights under the medicine cabinet in the bath room. At some point the bed room ones too.
Yes it is a fancy dimmer but it is also back-lighted and has an on/off switch. ITC makes a rotary dimmer as well but it wasn't clear if it was just a dimmer or if it had an on/off function as well. Lots of others available as well. These 3" lamps at 160 lumens and the glass lens appear brighter than the halogen lights. A dimmer will be nice. After my test light being on for quite a while it was not even warm to the touch.
Roger
Mine Roger do have on and off functions, and I changed the wiring in both living room passenger side and the bedroom so that all these lights(in each room) are on all together instead of the way Foretravel had them in seperate banks. Now the current draw is so small I do not mind them all being on at same time. (that is each room seperately-not together)
JohnH
My 270 has nearly all florescent lights. What's the power consumption difference between the florescent and an LED and what options are available?
I don't need to upgrade all at once, but I figure as they burn out, replace with LED's.
And lastly, does anybody have any idea how to get to the florescent lights that are in the dropped "ducted ceiling? All the Thin-Lite brand covers I can pop off, but the lights in ceiling are behind that clear plastic and a wood frame outlines it like a picture frame.
It is hard to say exactly especially in an RV setting. LED replacements for fluorescent tube lamps use about 30% less power per lumen. Since LED are much more directional you may be able to get by with less lumens. The RV fluorescents get warm when they are on.
You can get LED tubes. We just took the guts out and replaced them with LED strip lighting or any of many other stick on LED light modules. There are good LED bulb replacements for the incandescent bulbs in the wall lamps and vanity lamps. Prices vary widely depending on the source. The same bulb sold in an RV store can be many times what you might pay at Amazon or eBay or AliBaba (China). It pays to shop around.
We have fluorescent lamps in the LR ceiling, the bathroom ceiling and the BR ceiling as well as under the cabinet in the Kitchen and one on the Pass side and two under cabinets on the Drivers side. All are now LED. The under cabinet lamps and the Bedroom lamps have a wooden frame around the lamps. It does not need to come off to get the plastic lamp cover off. You just have to pry the edge of the plastic in a bit to get it loose and then it will come off. The other ceiling lamps have a frame with a flat plastic panel over the lamps. It is held on with some cabinet door latches, one at each end and on the sides Just pry it down and they will pop off. Mark which end is which because they are not generally reversible.
We put about 2/3 more LEDs in the Kitchen lamp and maybe 1/3 less in the bedroom based on what we wanted for light level. Very nice to have higher light level in the kitchen.
There are almost 30 10 watt halogen lamps inside the coach as well as nearly 20 other incandescent bulbs. The halogen replacements use about 3 watts. It all adds up.
Dave M reminds us to do what makes us happy. If you don't need to be or want to be careful with power consumption then this may not be something you need to do.
Roger
Roger, I agree with you 100%
My first step was to use the fluorescents instead of the halogens when wanting to conserve battery power. These will be the last on my list to convert to LED as they are so close to LED in efficiency to begin with. But the conversion will come.
Next, I went after the easy ones. I have two vanity lamps, one in the bedroom and one in the bathroom. I found direct replacement LED bulbs, but only have them in the bedroom. The Bathroom, for now, is using the original incandescent bulbs. The LEDs i have are not bright enough. These were bought a few years back, and there might be something brighter now. If not, I can supplement them with stick-on LED strips between the sockets.
The next easy step was replacing the wall lamps, the ones on swing arms with shades. I have five each on these, each with two bulbs. Again, an easy upgrade, once I found the LED bulbs in the correct oddball socket. Not very bright, but great for evening use other than as work lights.
I just bought some G4 discs on eBay, and when they come in, I will go after the halogens again. In the past, I have found these difficult to install, but the G4s I bought are smaller in diameter this time. If needed, I can take the reflector out too. But until this is done, I just avoid using the halogens most of the time.
Lastly, I will stick some LED strips in the fluorescent fixtures, starting with the one over the sink. This one fixture is unique in having two switches, one on a cabinet sidewall and one on the fixtures itself. I suspect the fixture was replaced before I bought the coach. I plan to wire the LED strips so the fluorescent tubes can still be used (optionally).
ps I almost forgot, I replaced the guts of the porch light with LEDs years ago, I got tired of ballasts burning out.
Guess I don't understand watts.
My old tube lights drew 30 watts each +heat, lasted about 18 months cost $3 each.
LED replacement about 1- no heat, cost about $9 each last - so far 3 years.
12v usage is 1/30 so that looks like a lot less batter hours. May not need that 2nd battery with the solar.
Payback - ? 3 replacements so 4 years?
DW says cooler in summer and winter :))
Amps are equal to watts divided by volts.
amp = watt / volt
Your batteries (simply put) can put out so many amp for so many hours (amp-hours)
A 10 watt halogen bulb at 12 volts draws 0.83 amps. If you have 12 lamps on then you are drawing 10 amps. If they are on for three hours that is 30 amp-hours. Maybe your battery capacity is 500 amp-hours. You can see how it uses up battery capacity.
Everything else is using battery power as well. The refrigerator, the radio, the air compressor, the level system, the LP and carbon monoxide detectors, the water pump, the furnace, the bathroom fan, the furnaces and more. It all adds up.
If you replace the 10 watt halogen lamps with LEDs that draw 3 watts then those 10 lamps will use only 9 amp-hours instead of 30. Lighting is something you can use less of or use more efficient sources. It is probably the easiest thing on which you can have a big impact.
We like them.
Roger
Some bright LED florescent lamp replacements use about the same measured amps as original florescent and the back side circuits put out quite a bit of heat, but they are much brighter. Heat comes from 'over driving' the LED's to make them bright.
So I don't assume all LED replacements use a lot less current. I have even seen some amp/watt current specifications that are understated when metered.
We have LED lamps where we want brighter lights, but still prefer cool-white fluorescents in some places where soft is preferred.
So, it sounds like the improvement over florecescnets wouldn't be that much in the power savings department, but it may be better in the longevity. We'll see how long the florecscents last.
My '98 u270 only has 2 halogens that I can think of: the map light, and the one light shining on the bathroom sink from the bottom of the vanity. There are 4 valence lights (is that the right term???), 3 vanity round bulbs, 3 floor lights including the steps, and of course all the storage bay lights that are incandescent--and all these are hardly used.
Just don't use halogens while boondocking and replace them with LED when they burn out sounds like my plan!
Here's something else to add to your plan, a Bogart Electronics Trimetric battery monitor.
I bought a Trimetric 2020 on eBay a couple of years ago, and finally got a round to installing it a few months ago. I wish I hadn't waited so long. One glance tells me exactly how many Amps are being consumed. Turn something on or off, check again, and know instantly how much power it is using. The remaining battery percentage is also useful, that way I know if I need to run the generator or plug in before taking the batteries into the danger zone below 50% of full capacity.
Without the Trimetric, I wouldn't know how wasteful my inverter is. Turn it on, and watch 10A being drawn from the battery. And this is without actually turning on anything. Just the 26" Sony Trinitron TV on standby, the satellite receiver, the VCR on standby, the Bose, the Bose clock radio, and the microwave on standby.
Krush, just put your finger nails behind the wood frame and pull down. These are only held up with the cheap plastic spring grips. When you put them back just be sure you have them centre as you can have the too far one way and will fall out when hitting a bump!!
I have replaced all lights with LED, way better than original, and less power used-believe it.
JohnH
Tom,
I added a switch into the 110v circuit that provides power to the TV, the Bose up front and the DVD player. No need to have that stuff on standby.
Another amp burner is the Base base speaker (in ours, under the kitchen). It is plugged into a 110v outlet and draws up to 3 amps. That could be up to 30 amps via the inverter from 12v to 120v. Another place for a switch. There is a box plugged into the outlet that the Bose base box plugs into that cuts the power if it doesn't have a 12v powered line (same kind of thing that makes your TV not work while driving). I am not sure where the 12v line is powered. Another thing using 12 volts all or most of the time.
Roger
I like those too, wasn't sure if they would fit your fixture or not.
I have some of those and they work well.