I think thus is a game changer. They are advertising the IH lower then FT did and they gave them in stock while FT gas only one. The new realm at under 700k is also going to be a huge change. Other then the retarder, if they do nit have one, the K3 is similar to the travel ride. So when I priced a nimbus six years ago it about 700k and they would not add IFS or delete a sludge without raising the price. I bought used instead but now the price is back down there again. I wonder how many coaches FT will sell at this lower price.
http://www.mhsrv.com/inventory.asp?condition=1&type_id=16&brand_id=204&year_low=&year_high=&price_low=&price_high=&keyword=&x=41&y=3 (http://www.mhsrv.com/inventory.asp?condition=1&type_id=16&brand_id=204&year_low=&year_high=&price_low=&price_high=&keyword=&x=41&y=3)
John,
Hate to get into this one, but with the under $800,000 price from the $1,200.00 + FOT pricing on the IH. When I was getting into the 2013 mood for the 38' Phenix ISX600, felt like I was getting educated, so was time for a cool down on my part, now it makes sense.
Sort of feels like one of my suppliers who will bid systems lower than they quote me, always hated that but have learned how to get even ;D
Yup, it is very odd and I read that they can not sell the realm at the factory but have to refer them to MHS. I also wonder what happened to the guy who took a new coach to tiger run for the summer. The good thing though is that if you add the 15 realms contracted for to the 12 Lonestars and they throw in a few IH coaches they are back at 30. That is moving the right direction and will keep the factory producing full out at their current staffing levels.
How are the IHs holding up? They going to last like the ones of the past?
We are at FOT for our annual maintenance. The first new Realm has now been completed and is at the bays next to the main maintenance bays being washed and detailed. I understand that the coach has been sold and is awaiting the new owner for pickup. It was not clear to me if it will be delivered to Motorhome Specialist for delivery, but I got the impression that the new owner was going to accept delivery at FOT. Today, there was a group of six or seven people looking at the engine and coach and having a big discussion about the coach. That is all I could determine. On the front of the motorcoach was the insignia Realm in large letters but I did not see the word Foretravel on the coach at all. Maybe I missed it. It is a very tall and good looking coach. We were told by a Foretravel employee it was sold to a Nascar race car driver.
Pictures of the Realm?
Update. The new Realm at FOT blew a head gasket while in the parking lot. Cummins picked up the coach and is going to put in a new engine. This is second hand information picked up in talking to people at FOT but I believe it to be accurate.
Bet Cummings will search the production line to find out "who" caused this on a first of the line coach :o ! Also believe significant discount will be offered as the result of this.
C.M. Fore's ghost caused it.
It is not a FT issue I would bet but a spartan one.
John, consider this maybe I misunderstood ::)
Consumers, including me look to who or where I purchased a product if there is an issue.
If Foretravel remodels my coach and installs a new state of the art kitchen that has a induction stove and residential fridge and something breaks, I dont think that I will call Samsung to fix it. Foretravel may but they are responsible.
Fleetwood would contact Cummins, and like I said Cummins is a great company I bet they are all over this.
Good dialogue ^.^d Time will tel. Should add hope that it does not effect this roll-out.
Do not see a big deal over this issue. Crap happens and unless this new owner was expecting to drive somewere right away and the failure causes hardship or? I do not realistically see how any discount would apply. The warranty is still intact.
Good job it happened then and not a couple of days later.
JohnH
Embarrassing? Yes. Otherwise, what's the big deal? Anyone who buys what is, essentially, a prototype ought to expect some issues that wouldn't even occur later in the production run. I would assume, though, that the Cummins engine was
not a prototype, but a regular production engine that could have gone anywhere. Just the luck of the draw that it happened to be installed in a high-visibility coach.
I would say bad luck of the draw.
I think John has it right. Just bad luck. It may be the one in a million problem. Sure hope so.
Raymond
Perhaps the engine was assembled on a Friday.
One of our Foreforums member blew a piston while travelling in their 09 Phoenix in northernAlaska and had to be towed 500 miles to the nearest Cummins distributor. Talk about the bad luck of the draw!
OK, Which Cummins Engine was the one that blew a head gasket ?
Maybe the small ISX, large ISX or the ISL, no idea what they are placing
in the economy model?
They are using the 450 stepped up to 500hp (he-he) >:D >:D
Sorry Dave just my weird mind, tarred with the same brush as you ^.^d
JohnH
Per the press release on the K3GT chassis
"Equipped with a Cummins ISX 600hp engine"
Coincidentally also an ISX 600 hp engine (albeit one pre-DEF)
CUMMINS ISX ENGINE 600 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10283.0)
Yep, the 09 Phoenix had the IX 600 if I'm not mistaken.
May be irrelevant, but I'll share anyway: I run Freightliners at our company and the most recent is a 2013. Used for local (Houston area) deliveries. With 41,000 miles, the engine blew. Oil everywhere. Required a new engine from Cummins, under warranty. (Incidentally, that took over a month, and me finally going ballistic with Houston Freightliner who blames Cummins).
3 months later, check engine light comes on. After 5 days at Houston Freightliner, they return it to me saying a "forced regen" fixed the problem. Light comes on again 2 days later. Another 6 days there, light was off, now just today it's on again. Blaming the software now. I think, after reading this and talking to another driver are the dealership with the same problem, that Cummins is having serious issues with all the new emissions equipment.
As I said, may be totally unrelated to the problem in this new Realm, but I find it beyond coincidental.
Many of the engine manufacturers are having problems with the new diesels with all the stupid emissions crap on them.
When I ordered my motorhome in 2007 as the first 2008 it came with Foretravel's last pre-emission ISX600. I put a deposit on the coach 4 months before the start of the build so they would reserve the motor. In hindsight it may have been a better move now then when I did it. No DEF just EGR valve and regular exhaust. I sure hope the newer engines don't have a systemic problem that only shows with mileage.
Was fishing in KY in June - forgot which lake or town, was with a friend - his cottage, boat etc (Striped Bass, a salt water fish they stock in these waters - they feed on "Shad" which looked like an Alewife to me - caught two each day apiece - was easy except we got up at 1 AM each day to go out and net the shad in the dark so we could have live bait to fish with at sunrise)
I Digress.
Anyway there is a guy in this town buying "gliders" - new trucks w/o engines and transmissions - must have seen 250 brand new gliders at his facility - he is buying engines/transmissions that are pre DEF, rebuilding them and making a "new" truck. Â Selling 60 a week! Â Someone said these trucks are not allowed to enter CA, but are much better on fuel than current technology and more reliable.
Interesting way to make a buck, sure can't go on forever, but he is doing real well for now.
I will ask my buddy what town I saw this in
In case anyone wants to know why I am happy to have an older Foretravel, pre-DEF, read this:
Diesel exhaust fluid (DEF), commonly referred to as AdBlue in Europe and standardised as ISO 22241[1] is an aqueous urea solution made with 32.5% high-purity urea (AUS 32) and 67.5% deionized water. DEF is used as a consumable in selective catalytic reduction (SCR) in order to lower NOx concentration in the diesel exhaust emissions from diesel engines.[2]
The average person excretes about 30 grams of urea a day, mostly through urine.
I am fortunate, not needing to buy and store urine for my engine to run.
I still wonder how they can sell the Realm at a price that is so much lower than the IH.
I believe that the main reason for the price difference is that FOT can purchase a Spartan Chassis for less than they can build a Foretravel chassis. We recently took the Foretravel factory tour and the guide said that the Foretravel chassis is a lot more robust and heavier than the Spartan chassis. We viewed a Spartan chassis complete with engine but we did not view a completed Foretravel chassis. We did see the front and rear framing for the Foretravel chassis.
Lyle Reed said exactly that at the last Grandvention
Cost delta was robots at Spartan and other vendors,(automation ) vs none at FT, volume of raw materials driving unit costs down for high volume manufacturers vs "retail" pricing for Foretravel. Plus less overhead "burden" imbedded in each chassis due to much higher number of units to those costs over
Spartan is a chassis manufacturer for multiple lines in the 10's of thousands at least.
Foretravel has made what 8000 coaches over the years? How many chassis? With Oshkosh, Gligge etc?
It seems to me Foretravel, is getting smarter shifting warranty and risk to Spartan AND aligning its "hand crafted" brand to a more mainstream consumer opportunity., specifically with this dealer.
Perhaps Foretravel has a plan to marry the chassis to the "hand crafted" body that they didn't disclose. Putting them as a forerunner with this "new breed" of Foretravel.
I for one wish them SUCCESS and Warp Speed Ahead! ^.^d
Love my old CAT pure mechanical. :P