Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: WaltH on August 01, 2014, 09:59:50 pm
Title: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: WaltH on August 01, 2014, 09:59:50 pm
I was looking at pictures of a 2005 Foretravel U270 36-foot model on the MOT site and saw something that puzzled. In the kitchen, where sometimes there is a second drawer below the stovetop, there is what appears to be an air exchange or something along those lines. I've seen this on some, though not all FT coaches I've looked at.
I guess I really have two questions: First, what actually is this for? Second, why put it there and not somewhere that would not eat up interior storage space?
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Michelle on August 01, 2014, 10:06:09 pm
Since it's a U270, it will have a propane furnace. Maybe that's the heater register?
ETA you can see a similar register for the bedroom/bath in another photo of that coach.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: John Haygarth on August 01, 2014, 10:21:11 pm
Our 2000 295 also has that grille but below a large "Pots and Pan" drawer and it is for access to the propane heater and maybe for other uses. JohnH
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: John S on August 01, 2014, 11:05:18 pm
Our 270 had propane heater access but the 320 has two drawers.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 01, 2014, 11:24:32 pm
Propane furnace is behind grill, and the grill is also the only cold air intake to the furnace.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Tom Lang on August 02, 2014, 02:01:08 am
And on our U295, there is a second grill in the bedroom. Two furnaces.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Dave Cobb on August 02, 2014, 07:58:00 am
Someone on the forum posted a photo of a beautiful wooden grill upgrade, something I intend to do.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Michelle on August 02, 2014, 08:22:23 am
Someone on the forum posted a photo of a beautiful wooden grill upgrade, something I intend to do.
That would be Don Don and Tys' new furnace duct cover (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14282.0)
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: John Haygarth on August 02, 2014, 09:36:21 am
Barry & Cindy, I seem to remember someone saying that the air intake for furnace is the outside area around the exhaust pipe on them, meaning air comes from out and hot exhaust goes out. I have had my vent cover off to pull wiring for solar etc and also paint it a close colour to Walnut cabinets and do not remember seeing any intake. I vacuumed all that space out while it was off. John H
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 02, 2014, 10:30:16 am
Hi John,
I thought the outside air intake is for the combustion chamber only. And the way inside air flows to squirrel cage blower is through louvers on side of furnace near circuit board, where the furnace is not tightly fastened together.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: John Haygarth on August 02, 2014, 11:44:13 am
You may be right and I will remove cover to see. I read your words (cold air intake for furnace) to mean the actual "firing" of it. JohnH
5 mins later. You are correct as the squirrel cage has open ends and the top has an opening in box so round motor fan can sit above the box and get air. You get to give out the pensils in class!!
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on August 02, 2014, 12:09:11 pm
I was looking at pictures of a 2005 Foretravel U270 36-foot model on the MOT site and saw something that puzzled. In the kitchen, where sometimes there is a second drawer below the stovetop, there is what appears to be an air exchange or something along those lines. I've seen this on some, though not all FT coaches I've looked at.
I guess I really have two questions: First, what actually is this for? Second, why put it there and not somewhere that would not eat up interior storage space?
.....................You are correct as the squirrel cage has open ends and the top has an opening in box so round motor fan can sit above the box and get air.................................
You beat me to it John! The Atwood Furnace has a blower wheel on one end of the propane furnace motor and a combustion wheel on the other end. The two spaces, inside the furnace motor housing, are separated by a Combustion Wall. The outside air, from the outside intake vent, and the inside air, from the inside intake grill, (located either under the 8 ftᵌ refrigerator or under the stove, if the U270 or U295 has the larger refrigerator) DO NOT mix in the furnace. Some, especially newbies, wonder why a drawer is missing and overlook the fact that a propane furnace uses up the volume of a drawer while "upgrading" (others consider it to be downgrading) to an AquaHot system uses up the volume of 1/3 to 1/2 of a storage bay. Trade offs, Neal
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: John S on August 02, 2014, 12:21:04 pm
I had no AH in my 270 and rarely used the space for the ah as it was buried.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: WaltH on August 02, 2014, 07:35:08 pm
Okay, I guess I'll continue to show my ignorance. I think what it's for, but I'm still not sure I understand the placement, especially when other coaches - and even other FT coaches - with propane furnaces don't seem to place the grill there. Since the under 40-foot FT coaches seem to already have a bit less basement storage than other coaches of similar length (at least based on pictures, which I know can be deceiving), it seems FT would want to provide as much interior storage as possible. I'm sure I must be missing something, so feel free top let me have it. :)
Also, someone mentioned Aqua Hot. Assuming you had propane for cooking (if not your refrigerator), wouldn't the Aqua Hot reduce your basement storage even further? If that is the case, what would be the best FT configuration for maximizing interior and exterior storage, and is it possible to get in the 36 or 38-foot models?
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: John S on August 02, 2014, 07:47:18 pm
AH is buried in the middle on the older coaches. It does not really take that much room as it is between the batteries and where the water manifold is on my coach. I still have two full pass thrus. Don't forget if you have propane you have a propane tank and a water heater and you have a furnace. WIth an AH I have only small registers in the rest of the coach.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: WaltH on August 02, 2014, 08:01:57 pm
AH is buried in the middle on the older coaches. It does not really take that much room as it is between the batteries and where the water manifold is on my coach. I still have two full pass thrus. Don't forget if you have propane you have a propane tank and a water heater and you have a furnace. WIth an AH I have only small registers in the rest of the coach.
Fair enough, although it seems to me that other brands that have similar configurations do not take away that interior storage, or maybe I just haven't seen it.
I do have a couple of other questions, then. Is it fair to assume that if the coach has two drawers instead of one drawer and the intake grill it likely has Aqua Hot (if, of course, the intake is not under a smaller refrigerator as Neal mentioned)? Also, what year did Aqua Hot either become standard or fairly common in FT coaches?
I ask these things because I know my wife would have a real issue with what she might see as bad design. Her degree is in Industrial Engineering, and she points out design flaws and other problems in just about every coach and trailer we've looked at. She does understand the notion of trade-offs, but there are some trade-offs she would not be likely to make. Fortunately, not every FT coach I've seen pictures of is configured in exactly this way. :)
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Tom Lang on August 02, 2014, 08:24:11 pm
Fair enough, although it seems to me that other brands that have similar configurations do not take away that interior storage, or maybe I just haven't seen it.
I do have a couple of other questions, then. Is it fair to assume that if the coach has two drawers instead of one drawer and the intake grill it likely has Aqua Hot (if, of course, the intake is not under a smaller refrigerator as Neal mentioned)? Also, what year did Aqua Hot either become standard or fairly common in FT coaches?
I ask these things because I know my wife would have a real issue with what she might see as bad design. Her degree is in Industrial Engineering, and she points out design flaws and other problems in just about every coach and trailer we've looked at. She does understand the notion of trade-offs, but there are some trade-offs she would not be likely to make. Fortunately, not every FT coach I've seen pictures of is configured in exactly this way. :)
Fair assumptions.
AH takes up bay space and has an extra exhaust pipe (one each for the AH, generator, and main engine)
Propane takes up interior space and has a grill for each furnace. It has to be somewhere.
Most Foretravel coaches were built with propane tanks, even those with AH. AH models have smaller propane tanks, and all electric AH models do without the propane tanks altogether.
No bad design, just trade offs. You choose which is best for you.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: WaltH on August 02, 2014, 11:27:22 pm
AH takes up bay space and has an extra exhaust pipe (one each for the AH, generator, and main engine)
Propane takes up interior space and has a grill for each furnace. It has to be somewhere.
Most Foretravel coaches were built with propane tanks, even those with AH. AH models have smaller propane tanks, and all electric AH models do without the propane tanks altogether.
No bad design, just trade offs. You choose which is best for you.
I certainly understand that the grill(s) has to be somewhere. I just think FT is the first coach where I've seen a grill under the cooktop and then, not on all models.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Caflashbob on August 02, 2014, 11:40:12 pm
I certainly understand that the grill(s) has to be somewhere. I just think FT is the first coach where I've seen a grill under the cooktop and then, not on all models. [/quote
As you will see if you look long enough tote Foretravel engineering needs are at least equal to the marketing needs.
Others would have hidden the system better and had service/use issues?
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Dave Katsuki on August 03, 2014, 12:03:00 am
On our U270, the furnace (and the grill) is under the fridge.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Tom Lang on August 03, 2014, 12:31:41 am
From an engineering point of view, it makes sense to locate a furnace where there already is a propane using appliance located. Both the stovetop and refrigerator use propane.
In my 1988 Winnebago, the furnace was under the stove drawer. In my 1972 Revcon, it was under the oven beneath the stovetop. Later motorhomes added a convection microwave, and put a drawer in the former oven location.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Brad & Christine Slaughter on August 03, 2014, 12:44:00 am
On our U270, the furnace (and the grill) is under the fridge.
Same on our 36' 2002 U270.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Dave Cobb on August 03, 2014, 12:06:36 pm
Walt,
You asked about when/what years were Auga Hots? I know in the 90's coaches U270's seemed to get single propane furnaces, U295 got 2 propane furnaces, and U320's got AH's. This is per specs on the info on the links to each year. But then Foretravel built custom ordered coaches, where you could spec your's to have AH upgrade on the base 270's or 295. I think I saw a 320 without AH, it got speced with propane. We have a U295, and we feel we have no shortage of storage. We do not full time, but in the old coach and the newer U295, at least half of out storage areas are empty! We do spent weeks and some times a month in the coach with out any shortage of our things. The biggest joke has as been when looking for something at home to be reminded, "oh, that is in the coach". Three years ago I suggested we load all our favorite things into the first coach, a few things got added to the second.
A bigger concern to me was, can you get to those furnaces, and I can to any of the four that I have checked. And when giving tours, guest are amazed by the amount of storage in our Foretravels compared to their SOB.
I hope you and your wife get into a Foretravel to see how someone is living and storing their things. Dolly got to see how other's stored what and where. That is so different from photos and rv shows for us both inside and in the bays.
On some other threads members have reported removing their bottom storage under the refer. when adding a new refer. Those bottom storage areas are not as handy as we get move years of use, ;) .
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on August 03, 2014, 02:41:06 pm
..............If that is the case, what would be the best FT configuration for maximizing interior and exterior storage, and is it possible to get in the 36 or 38-foot models...................................
Walt, I understand your difficulty in sorting out the facts. We had exactly the same question back in 1996 when we were trying to determine which FT we wanted to find.
Over the years, it became much more clear to us as we experienced the FT evolutions. As it turns out, there is a very simple thumb rule that applies to all models and all years. And yet, we see others struggle in trying to figure out the realities of various choices. Note: the thumb rule ignores the other side of the coin which is"net carrying capacity".
THUMBRULE: A base coach floorplan, in any length, will have the most storage volume: By "Base", I mean, no tag, no slide, no Aqua Hot, no private toilet.
a tag = less storage
a slide = less storage, each additional slide = additional loss in storage volume
an Aquahot = less storage
a separate toilet = less storage
Start by looking at the wheelbase dimensions: Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs) It will quickly become obvious that there is a reduction of two feet in one max. possible storage bay dimension when a tag is added to any given FT length (38', 40', 42').
Then consider that a slide removes overhead cabinet volume as well as removes bay storage volume (required additional slide systems are in the bays).
Finally, an Aqua Hot may reduce propane tank size but an Aqua Hot still occupies more volume than a propane furnace(s) plus 3-way water heater. Absence of a 3-way heater provides minimal additional storage volume in the water bay. We proved these thumb rules several times over throughout the course of trying to find our ideal upgrade coach. What I did, for several coaches that we were interested in over the years, was take the dimensions of every available storage volume and calculate the inside and bay total available storage volumes. Until we became accustomed to the reality of it all, it was hard to get our heads around the fact that a 40', two slide, tag axle, Aqua Hot coach had significantly less storage volume than our 36', no slide, no tag, no Aqua Hot coach.
The location and usability of any given storage volume may present other complications. For instance, we found storage cabinets over slides to be far less useable than the original higher, deeper cabinets. Likewise, some otherwise good storage becomes awkward or can't be accessed with a slide "in", smaller bay "Joy Beds" are less efficient in making full use of the available storage volume, ease of access to bay storage volume (under slides) suffers, etc.
I hope that this provides some insights for you. We decided that the open floor space, created by slide(s), comes at far too much expense for us. The more we consider full timing, the more true that fact becomes. Of course many would rather have the opposite, and that is fine. But, it does severely restrict the number of available used coaches for us to choose from in the future. Best wishes with your research.
Neal
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Tim Fiedler on August 03, 2014, 02:46:40 pm
Hmmm, my aH is pretty small and tucked between wet bay and utility bay in middle of coach. If I lost space vs propane I would be surprised. Agree on all the rest
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: John Haygarth on August 03, 2014, 02:53:29 pm
Your findings Neal echo ours, and as we are plenty fine with the wide body and Ruth cannot understand why we would ever need a slide, even fulltiming! Storage is far more 8important than being able to sit 6 people in the coach, that is what the outdoors is for and in evenings/dark 2 chairs or? is all we need before bedtime ETTO I guess. JohnH
ps- plus less issues and cost of upkeep.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Caflashbob on August 03, 2014, 06:03:06 pm
Hmmm, my aH is pretty small and tucked between wet bay and utility bay in middle of coach. If I lost space vs propane I would be surprised. Agree on all the rest
I agree. Our 97' non tag, non slide 40' WTBI floorplan without Joey beds easily has the most storage of any non 45' coach.
The Richardsons who bought this first knew exactly what was the biggest it seems.
Every tankful and the coach 90% loaded internally and storage wise the coach is right at GVW.
front tires are at 108 pdi out of a full load being 110 psi. Rears are 98 out of 100-105?
After adjusting the shocks twice and then driving the coach 4,000 miles the stability in winds and the body lean in tight corners with a dip in the turn is very good.
Versus needing a tag axle for stability?
But I bet foretravel for marketing and bigger(heavier) future coaches starting fitting tags.
Turning radius on a non tag 276" WB 40' is wide. A tag moves the pivoting axle up towards the front. For non experienced owners the easier turning might be appreciated.
Especially in the east side of the country as I understand everything is tighter.
Nice fancy campgrounds, no problem.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: WaltH on August 03, 2014, 08:51:27 pm
Walt, I understand your difficulty in sorting out the facts. We had exactly the same question back in 1996 when we were trying to determine which FT we wanted to find. Over the years, it became much more clear to us as we experienced the FT evolutions. As it turns out, there is a very simple thumb rule that applies to all models and all years. And yet, we see others struggle in trying to figure out the realities of various choices. Note: the thumb rule ignores the other side of the coin which is"net carrying capacity".
THUMBRULE: A base coach floorplan, in any length, will have the most storage volume: By "Base", I mean, no tag, no slide, no Aqua Hot, no private toilet.
a tag = less storage
a slide = less storage, each additional slide = additional loss in storage volume
an Aquahot = less storage
a separate toilet = less storage
Start by looking at the wheelbase dimensions: Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs) It will quickly become obvious that there is a reduction of two feet in one max. possible storage bay dimension when a tag is added to any given FT length (38', 40', 42').
Then consider that a slide removes overhead cabinet volume as well as removes bay storage volume (required additional slide systems are in the bays). Finally, an Aqua Hot may reduce propane tank size but an Aqua Hot still occupies more volume than a propane furnace(s) plus 3-way water heater. Absence of a the 3-way heater provides minimal additional storage volume in the water bay. We proved these thumb rules several times over throughout the course of trying to find our ideal upgrade coach. What I did, for several coaches that we were interested in over the years, was take the dimensions of every available storage volume and calculate the inside and bay total available storage volumes. Until we became accustomed to the reality of it all, it was hard to get our heads around the fact that a 40', two slide, tag axle, Aqua Hot coach had significantly less storage volume than our 36', no slide, no tag, no Aqua Hot coach.
The location and usability of any given storage volume may present other complications. For instance, we found storage cabinets over slides to be far less useable than the original higher, deeper cabinets. Likewise, some otherwise good storage becomes awkward or can't be accessed with a slide "in", smaller bay "Joy Beds" are less efficient in making full use of the available storage volume, ease of access to bay storage volume (under slides) suffers, etc.
I hope that this provides some insights for you. We decided that the open floor space, created by slide(s), comes at far too much expense for us. The more we consider full timing, the more true that fact becomes. Of course many would rather have the opposite, and that is fine. But, it does severely restrict the number of available used coaches for us to choose from in the future. Best wishes with your research.
Neal
Neal, thank you for all of this. I may hold onto it when the time comes that my wife and I move into serious looking. It should certainly help with our decision-making process.
The comments by everyone else are well-taken. One reason I'm not sure they'll apply in our case is that I'm not sure either my wife nor I expect at this point that we'll be doing our own maintenance on things like the furnace. And perhaps that is not necessarily a consideration for many of you. Perhaps the ease of access (I'm assuming that is one of the reasons for the grill and furnace's location) translate into less labor hours during a repair and leads to a lower overall repair bill.
Personally, I'd be tempted not to have a furnace at all. In our current fifth-wheel, we have used our furnace maybe twice in three years of ownership. And that includes camping in Idaho in November, December, January, and February. Since I don't know what I don't know, I'm grateful for the knowledge and advice I've gained from this forum.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Tom Lang on August 03, 2014, 10:11:30 pm
Propane furnaces are almost maintenance free, always accessible (all the ones I've seen), and EVERY RV tech knows how to work on them. AH does need more care, are sometimes hard to get to, and need a (hard to find) RV tech with experience. My propane furnaces are rarely used too, as we try to stay away from really cold weather. If we need heat, the rooftop heat pumps are all we need, and we carry an electric space heater "just in case".
But speaking from experience, placing AH on your must-have list will eliminate too many nice coaches. We thought we wanted AH too (and the power of a U320), but the otherwise perfect (now actually perfect) coach turned up, and we bought it. With Foretravel, there are no bad choices, just personal preferences.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Tim Fiedler on August 03, 2014, 11:04:17 pm
Propane in that case and replace tank style water heater with on demand based propane unit might make sense
Hard to give up quiet zoned heat and endless hot water with ah once you experience it.
Put it simply, who here has had an ah, and went back to propane and thinks that is better . Lots of folks here that have never had an ah prefer what they have. Cool. I've had two coaches propane and one ah. Never going back
If you have had both and would rather have propane furnace and hot water, tell us your story!!!!
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 04, 2014, 12:35:30 am
We think AH works quite well. Cindy's comment is:
We know some real nice guys that make a living fixing & maintaining AH. And there are lots of people busy keeping AH's going as their business.
But there is no one who makes a living maintaining propane hot water tanks and furnaces.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: D.J. Osborn on August 04, 2014, 07:22:00 am
We had a motorhome with a propane furnace and a propane water heater. The furnace was noisy and the hot water was limited. Now we have a motorhome with an Aqua-Hot, and I would never want to go back!
I've been told (by a person very familiar with Aqua-Hot) that the primary reason for Aqua-Hot problems is too little use. If it's not used regularly then the nozzle can begin to become obstructed. If it's used (in diesel mode) for a minimum of perhaps 10 minutes a month, then the nozzle will stay clear and will likely be trouble-free.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Dan Stansel on August 04, 2014, 09:58:29 am
Maybe depends on where you live. In Texas the hot water heater and furnaces serve me well. I can see if I was in a colder environment AH would be an asset. It must be an extra expense to maintain the AH system. Its all in what you prefer and get use to. Both has its place just like slide or no slide// the thing is that currently all motorhomes are being built with slides. Resale slides really help. Its what the general public has perceived as the norm. Its all about the gadgets. A neighbor just purchased a new Berkshire 40 with 4 slides. 360 Cummins. First trip was to Colorado and Wyoming. Just got back and they loved the coach. Lots of bells and whistles. Maybe if you own it you love it. DAN
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: WaltH on August 04, 2014, 10:03:11 am
Maybe depends on where you live. In Texas the hot water heater and furnaces serve me well. I can see if I was in a colder environment AH would be an asset. It must be an extra expense to maintain the AH system. Its all in what you prefer and get use to. Both has its place just like slide or no slide// the thing is that currently all motorhomes are being built with slides. Resale slides really help. Its what the general public has perceived as the norm. Its all about the gadgets. A neighbor just purchased a new Berkshire 40 with 4 slides. 360 Cummins. First trip was to Colorado and Wyoming. Just got back and they loved the coach. Lots of bells and whistles. Maybe if you own it you love it. DAN
Probably true. I am looking at any purchase as a future coach for full-timing, which means we'll likely be here, there, and everywhere, although hopefully never in really cold or really hot weather.
Because of that interior and exterior storage will be important to us. Personally, I think I would rather go no slide (less to go wrong?), while I think my wife prefers a slide or two (doesn't want four or full-wall but is willing to keep an open mind on no slide). I'm also not too worried about resale. If possible, I'd like to get it right the first time and make my first coach my last. Idealistic, perhaps, but a man can dream. :)
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: fouroureye on August 04, 2014, 10:53:46 am
Got a question; on slide models, are the bay heights effected?
Walt we full time, these are our learned space requirements: decorations; for seasons and holidays 3x3x4, 40cf. Tools-spare parts 3x3x3, 30cf Clothing for 2 all seasons inside 80cf Camping equip, stoves, chairs etc 40cf Wet bay, cords, hoses 10cf
FULL is an under statement! ^.^d ???
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: John Haygarth on August 04, 2014, 11:30:48 am
regarding Barry & Cindy's quote on no RV service guy's for Propane appliances- My answer to that would be that these units are very dependable and last for many years with just the simplest checking needed that ANY owner can do once they know what to do. Keep all flues/burners etc clean, esp' on Fridge. Last year I helped R/R in friends coach an Aqua Hot unit the he bought from Roger B and my opinion is that it is a very expensive piece of equipt just to get a bit more hot water and warmth for a short time in winter. We have not run out of hot water for showers or had a cold coach with the Propane units and on our trips back and forth to Mexico in the winters, we go thru snow/ice and freezing rain sometimes, even parking overnight in these conditions with no hook up! I guess this is another case of IMHO John H
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: WaltH on August 04, 2014, 01:08:21 pm
regarding Barry & Cindy's quote on no RV service guy's for Propane appliances- My answer to that would be that these units are very dependable and last for many years with just the simplest checking needed that ANY owner can do once they know what to do. Keep all flues/burners etc clean, esp' on Fridge. Last year I helped R/R in friends coach an Aqua Hot unit the he bought from Roger B and my opinion is that it is a very expensive piece of equipt just to get a bit more hot water and warmth for a short time in winter. We have not run out of hot water for showers or had a cold coach with the Propane units and on our trips back and forth to Mexico in the winters, we go thru snow/ice and freezing rain sometimes, even parking overnight in these conditions with no hook up! I guess this is another case of IMHO John H
I think I'm with you on this one. The Aqua Hot sounds like (and I'm sure it is) a great feature, but anything I can do to simplify the complexity of any coach I buy is a good thing, as I am not the most mechanically adept. (I once had a counselor advise me, after I had completed a series of tests including manual dexterity, to avoid getting a job which required using my hands.)
Our current fifth-wheel has a six-gallon (I believe) hot water heater, and we managed enough hot water for three people to take showers each day and for doing dishes several times for four days without hookups. As for warm floors, which is one of things I've read touted by those with Aqua Hot, we're accustomed to a bit of a morning chill when we RV in the off season.
I won't rule a coach out because it has Aqua Hot. Nor will I rule it out because it doesn't - as long as it has everything I think I want and need and as long as the layout works for us.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Dave Cobb on August 04, 2014, 01:25:41 pm
Walt,
If you are getting by with a 6 gallon water heater, you'r likely to have less problems with the standard 10 gallon propane in most of the later 90's Foretravel's you might buy. We enjoy having the motor aid heating the water tank as we drive, for free. The long term risk to repair costs were a selling point to us, with 2 furnaces and one that works as a back up. A propane furnace or water heater is an off the shelf part, and simple repair to me, any one for around the reported yearly cost of AH service and parts.
When I have been at FOT, a number of coaches have been there for AH issues. Worst was a member that I think went 14 weeks. They were getting their unit replaced by the Extended Service contract company, and FOT, and the re-built replacement leaked within a week of them leaving FOT, requiring a return to do it all again. We offered the DW our shower, as they were driving up to a campground for showers.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Tom Lang on August 04, 2014, 01:56:05 pm
Regarding bay height, our 2003 U295 has a single slide room. It spans three bays. It does not take any height away from the fuel tank and house battery bay nor from the full width bay. The only visible part of the mechanism is right next to the equipment bay door, on the ceiling of that non-storage bay.
Regarding hot water, we've never run out of hot water with our 10 gallon water heater. Engine heat allows us to arrive with hot water. We keep it on electric when we have hookups. When dry camping, we turn it on (propane) about 15 minutes before taking a shower. We sometimes run it on both propane and electric while taking a shower, and run the water pump along with campground water for more pressure and flow.
Honestly, barring unforeseen circumstances, I doubt we'll ever upgrade to another coach. But if that happens, and we still need a diesel pusher, it will definitely be a Foretravel. As for AH vs. propane, that would only come into play as a deciding factor between two coaches we fall equally in love with. All else being equal, we would likely go with Aqua Hot.
But the reason for giving the nod to AH is that I could remove the propane tank and add another 8D battery, a residential refrigerator, an induction cooktop, and a roof full of solar panels. Or better yet, find a coach where the previous owner already did all that on his nickel.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: fouroureye on August 04, 2014, 02:07:43 pm
Tom, thanks for the explanation on bay height ^.^d
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: WaltH on August 04, 2014, 02:26:59 pm
But the reason for giving the nod to AH is that I could remove the propane tank and add another 8D battery, a residential refrigerator, an induction cooktop, and a roof full of solar panels. Or better yet, find a coach where the previous owner already did all that on his nickel.
This, for me, would be the biggest reason and advantage for going with Aqua Hot over a propane furnace and hot water heater, as I definitely want solar on the coach. Like you, I would love to find a coach where all of that has already been done, although I don't necessarily mind adding a couple of solar panels if the rest has been taken care of. :)
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Carol Savournin on August 04, 2014, 07:09:31 pm
We have a 40' single slide coach with an Aquahot. We proudly represent the folks who do very little of their own maintenance ... we know our limitations and are fine with our best tool being a telephone and a credit card. The Aquahot is a lovely thing ... helps "goose" the electric hot water heater when needed and is a super furnace. We just make sure to run it regularly and give it the proper maintenance, which is certainly not burdensome. We have several solar panels ... nice addition in case we want to use a park that has no hookups for a while and because we are planning on adding a residential fridge. Also keeps the batteries full when we are stored in the winter. We could get along just fine with no slide and never thought we wanted one. We really bought this coach for other reasons, including the tile floor interior ... but we have just had grand kids visiting for a total of almost a month. The extra space made that possible! Otherwise ... no room.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: krush on August 04, 2014, 10:22:00 pm
No aquahot here and I've never run out of hot water. And I don't even let it heat up all the way. It stays hot for at least a day after driving from the engine (3way water heater).
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: WaltH on August 05, 2014, 10:36:44 am
We have a 40' single slide coach with an Aquahot. We proudly represent the folks who do very little of their own maintenance ... we know our limitations and are fine with our best tool being a telephone and a credit card. The Aquahot is a lovely thing ... helps "goose" the electric hot water heater when needed and is a super furnace. We just make sure to run it regularly and give it the proper maintenance, which is certainly not burdensome. We have several solar panels ... nice addition in case we want to use a park that has no hookups for a while and because we are planning on adding a residential fridge. Also keeps the batteries full when we are stored in the winter. We could get along just fine with no slide and never thought we wanted one. We really bought this coach for other reasons, including the tile floor interior ... but we have just had grand kids visiting for a total of almost a month. The extra space made that possible! Otherwise ... no room.
A part of me thinks I would like to be able to do some maintenance. Another part of me recognizes that the phone and credit card will be my standard tools of choice. :)
Solar is definitely a part of our future plans. Don't know yet about a residential refrigerator, although that is certainly a possibility.
We have an autistic son (our only child), so grandchildren are less likely, but I guess one should never say never. Plus we don't really entertain, so I don't think a slide is essential for us, although my wife may well disagree.
As far as the great Aqua Hot / water heater debate :D, I'm willing to go either way. We've used propane for refrigerator, water heater, stove, and rarely our furnace on three different RVs over the last seven years without problem. But I'm willing to consider something else.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: krush on August 05, 2014, 09:25:38 pm
My one beef with an aquahot system is that if you live in the South and hardly use heat, it's kinda pointless to have such a complex system just to make hot water.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: John S on August 05, 2014, 10:03:21 pm
Well, I was in Nac this Jan and it snowed. It got into the twenties. I was in Yellowstone in late June and it snowed and the high was 38.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Caflashbob on August 06, 2014, 12:48:41 am
My one beef with an aquahot system is that if you live in the South and hardly use heat, it's kinda pointless to have such a complex system just to make hot water.
true
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Dave Cobb on August 06, 2014, 08:13:39 am
Same for us, in 3 years, we have heated maybe 40 nights out of 220. The one night at 10 degrees we were on a Frieghtliner lot, and just ran the generator, as we like the electric blanket with dual controls. All the other nights we had electric hook ups and used electric heat. The propane furnaces have not seen 6 nights of use, it that so far. And with 10 gallons of hot water, we shower, one after another even with a guest traveling with us, for some 7 weeks of those nights.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on August 06, 2014, 08:41:05 am
Seems to me that you are going to love AH, be indifferent about having an AH or be against having an AH. If it is in the coach you really wanted to buy you have it. Would it stop someone from buying a coach that they otherwise want because it doesn't have an AH? Probably not unless you have had one in the past.
It wasn't on my list of must haves when we were shopping but floor plan, 450HP and other features of the U320 were. After 33 years with propane furnaces before our FT, the AH has been a very welcome newcomer. If I ever upgrade to a newer coach (not likely) an AH would be on the list of most desirable features.
Roger
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: Tom Lang on August 06, 2014, 11:26:56 am
Seems to me that you are going to love AH, be indifferent about having an AH or be against having an AH. If it is in the coach you really wanted to buy you have it. Would it stop someone from buying a coach that they otherwise want because it doesn't have an AH? Probably not unless you have had one in the past.
It wasn't on my list of must haves when we were shopping but floor plan, 450HP and other features of the U320 were. After 33 years with propane furnaces before our FT, the AH has been a very welcome newcomer. If I ever upgrade to a newer coach (not likely) an AH would be on the list of most desirable features.
Roger
I agree 100%. On our next coach, AH would be desirable, but not essential. But since all-electric and the bigger engine are also desirable, AH would most likely come along for the ride.
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: John Haygarth on August 06, 2014, 11:54:12 am
It is so funny to read some of the comments on heat and hot water. One moment it is too hot and need the gen on for counless hours to use A/C then the next it is too cold and needing the A/H on for endless water and heat!!!! What ever happened to to the old answer for cold like putting on a sweater or? We have many nights in freezing and lower temps while travelling and have not ever had a problem keeping our toes warm. We also do not sit in the coach all day hugging the vents but get out in the "fresh air" and enjoy the scenery, even if it does have 6" snow on it. "whatever makes you comfy" hey Dave? JohnH
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: WaltH on August 06, 2014, 12:44:56 pm
It is so funny to read some of the comments on heat and hot water. One moment it is too hot and need the gen on for counless hours to use A/C then the next it is too cold and needing the A/H on for endless water and heat!!!! What ever happened to to the old answer for cold like putting on a sweater or? We have many nights in freezing and lower temps while travelling and have not ever had a problem keeping our toes warm. We also do not sit in the coach all day hugging the vents but get out in the "fresh air" and enjoy the scenery, even if it does have 6" snow on it. "whatever makes you comfy" hey Dave? JohnH
I suppose one does get used to creature comforts, and as one has more, one gets used to more. We once took our tent trailer out in January here in Idaho. The morning low was 19 degrees and it snowed. Now that I'm used to a fifth-wheel, I don't think I'd ever do that again, but it sure is fun to see people's reactions when I tell them. :)
Title: Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)
Post by: J. D. Stevens on August 06, 2014, 10:05:01 pm
A sign I recently saw, "Camping ain't what it used to be. Thank goodness!" :))
"Roughing it" is when you have to start the generator. I was pleased to go tent camping and pop-up trailer camping with my young family. I'm pleased when my son does the same with his young family. I'm now pleased to travel in my apartment with engines and wheels. ^.^d