Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: jake62 on August 16, 2014, 08:31:04 am

Title: FT Chassis
Post by: jake62 on August 16, 2014, 08:31:04 am
Hey Folks,

I've been doing a "search" regarding the FT chassis but can't seem to locate information on the specific construction of the FT chassis.  I think that FT makes a "Semi-monocoque" chassis, which makes it more bus-like than the basic frame rail, but I have a couple questions:

1.  Is the FT frame all aluminum or is there steel in the construction, for example steel for the cab/cage?
2.  Is the FT chassis/construction the same for the U320, Phenix, Nimbus? 
3.  Has there been any issues over the years with "de-lamination" of the sidewall? (Like some SOBs have had)?

I know each FT Model has it's own upgrades, but the basic chassis structure itself.  For example, SOBs change their chassis when you go to higher end coaches (freight liner, spartan, k-2, k-3, all the way to the newell/prevost custom chassis.)  Does FT remain consistent on all their chassis', regardless the model?

Thanks for any insight ...
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: fouroureye on August 16, 2014, 08:44:48 am
Foretravel Motorhome technical help and information links (http://beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/foretravel-technical-help.html)

Lots if not all your questions will be answered. Barry also has a search function.

History, specifications,  photos all Foretravel ^.^d
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: John S on August 16, 2014, 09:20:18 am
They use all steel except for the radius on the roof. That is aluminum.  No sidewall delam but there was an issue with the first slides having a bit. I had mine fixed. They used the wrong mastic when constructing them the first time for the design to save weight. The new chassis is stronger thus the higher tow capacities but other then that and ifs they work similarly and have similar H member construction. 
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Tim Fiedler on August 16, 2014, 10:16:19 am
Tim,

If you ever get down to Meccadoches, be sure to take the factory tour. Delamination NOT an issue in FT. Early slides had a few that got delimitation in the slide ( a small area in the front of the slide that was below the window - usually if window seal leaked) and sometimes around the Washer Dryer vent. Â Both Easy fixes.

If structure is your point of evaluation, stop your SOB evaluation and  and focus on a Fortravel.  If you would like a VERY educated opinion, call Xtreme Paint and Graphics in Nacogdoches, and talk to the owner James.  He pants and does crash repair on all makes.  He can give you an unbiased opinion.  Other RV repair shops will have an opinion, but few see very many Foretravels.

Have you been in one yet? Â What part of the country do you live in?

Sooner or later you will run across all the threads on " rear bulkhead repair" Â Hundreds if not thousands of posts on the subject. Â Yes, it is a CONCERN, no it si not a PROBLEM. Â Most coaches have been inspected and if needed repaired at a very low relative cost. Â Many with no problem found. Â Easily identified on a pre-buy if you know what you are looking for. Â A couple have had significant issues, with costly or extensive repair. Â No need be concerned other than when you go to purchase to be aware of it.

Set your budget, and set aside 10% of that for first years tweaks/fixes/maintenance, and look at FT's in that price range. Â Then compare to what years that same $$$ will buy in SOB's. Â Hmmm, I am getting an older FT than an SOB for the same amount of dollars. Â Why is that? Â FT better to start, they stay tight and useable, they depreciate very(relative to SOB) Â slowly once they get below about $100,000 in value, and people that have them won't give them up.

Hope that helps, good luck in your search.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: fouroureye on August 16, 2014, 10:22:38 am
Just expanding on the comments a bit. The mid 90s u280, u300 are becoming more difficult to find. Unicoaches more available. ^.^d
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 16, 2014, 10:39:12 am
The mid 90s u280, u300 are becoming more difficult to find.

Because they are such a TERRIFIC BARGAIN at today's prices!!!
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: ltg on August 16, 2014, 11:38:51 am
We were at FOT this past week for annual maintenance. A Foretravel  owner was there in a beautiful 2008 Nimbus. I commented to him on how beautiful it was. He said that if someone were to buy a Nimbus, they should stay away from the  2008 year models. He said that this was his second time at  FOT for delamination problems on the sidewalls. Not the slides, but the sidewalls. He said the repairs were very expensive.  I did not actually look at the delamination. His coach  was not in the service bay at the time of our  conversation.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: ltg on August 16, 2014, 11:48:41 am
Tim,

Set your budget, and set aside 10% of that for first years tweaks/fixes/maintenance, and look at FT's in that price range.


We purchased our coach in July 2013. It had very little maintenance records. So, this year, after owning her for a little over a year, we took her to FOT for maintenance. We had what one technician called a complete maintenance. The cost was approximately $3,000. This service included engine, generator, hydraulic system, brake inspection and lube, chassis lube, engine anti-freeze drain and flush, transmission drain and filters, charge air inspection, refrigerator service, 12 volt auxiliary compressor service,  etc.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: jake62 on August 16, 2014, 11:50:21 am
Great comments and insight.  I probably won't be able to get down to the factory until I retire late next year.  I live in the DC area.  However, I've read that there's a couple guys who are members on this site that hire out as "inspectors" which may be money well spent.

Great advice Tim re the budget & repairs.  That's my plan ... and I certainly will contact James at Extreme Paint.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: jake62 on August 16, 2014, 11:51:15 am
We were at FOT this past week for annual maintenance. A Foretravel  owner was there in a beautiful 2008 Nimbus. I commented to him on how beautiful it was. He said that if someone were to buy a Nimbus, they should stay away from the  2008 year models. He said that this was his second time at  FOT for delamination problems on the sidewalls. Not the slides, but the sidewalls. He said the repairs were very expensive.  I did not actually look at the delamination. His coach  was not in the service bay at the time of our  conversation.

Does this mean the FT sidewall construction differs between the various models?
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Tim Fiedler on August 16, 2014, 12:06:19 pm
No
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: fouroureye on August 16, 2014, 12:14:47 pm
No

ANY issue with foretravel is a higher % because of low production numbers.

If you look at recalls for production SOBs vs Foretrave the hand builts are far fewer ^.^d
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Caflashbob on August 16, 2014, 12:26:50 pm
All Foretravels I know of are unique as they are built up out of previously vacuum bonded sub assemblies made with steel 1 1/2 inch 16 gauge(?) tubing.

Then the sub assemblies are bolted together.  You can see the row of bolts across the coaches bottom where the compartment dividers meet the bottom panel.

All the surfaces are insulated that way. Floor, dividers, bottom floor and sidewalls are similar.

Roof only is aluminum. 

Walk the roof of any Rv you are considering.  Instantly noticeable how much stronger the Foretravel is.

The SOB's sidewalls normally are not vacuum bonded assemblies. 

Watched a tv program on a expensive coach being constructed and that coach had loose aluminum bars set in an already vertical sidewall structure and the thin skin was run through a glue roller setup to apply adhesive to its back side then stuck on the foam and small aluminum framed sidewall.  My DW got irritated as I laughed out loud while watching this. 

Or maybe the skin was aluminum.  Not what I would own.

My 97 u320 was heavily vacuum bonded during construction as you can see the outlines of the steel framing in the skins.  Which is a good thing. 

Poly urethane adhesive and a high pressure vacuum bond table setup left under pressure long enough to completely cure is arguably the superior side wall construction you can get.

Add in welded steel framing with closer centers and the non heat absorbing white thick gel coated skin to not add heat to expand the skin and its hard to wear this out.

I bet the 2008 nimbus was painted black and is being used in a high heat area.  Wanna' bet?

Only the country coach coaches held up similarly with painted walls.  Predominantly lighter colors were used by them.  No one painted anything dark like the new coaches I see.

Too many failures.  Too hot inside. 

Only beaver fixed the sidewalls and paint issue.  Their skin was a loose hung vacuum bonded sidewall that was totally separate from the sidewalls structure.  Fiberglass, end grain balsa and then luan.  Screwed onto the sidewall at the top and bottom and the window frames and the ends.

Seen their walls increase in length in summer desert conditions 1/2 inch in total.

Any painted coach puts a load on the adhesives in the structure.

Notice all the less expensive trailers are white fiberglass construction?  Sides won't come off as easily.

All the normal non yacht boats in the harbor are white gel coat.  Period. 

Reflects heat.  Does not delaminate easily.

These really are land yachts.  Almost killed Foretravel not to sell painted coaches.  They knew better what lasted versus sold.  Wrong.  Customers assumed that if the other companies painted their coaches then it must be ok.  Not. Especially the black new ones I see.

Let's see how long they last?  New FMCA magazine shows a $200 k new coach with a 17 cu ft residential refer with a 2k inverter and four group 31 batteries to run it. 420 amp hours maybe?  May last overnight without the gen self starting. 

Needs double the batteries minimum IMO.  But by that time the customer owns it.

Needs to sell twice. Once to the dealer. (Fabrics and floor plans and paint jobs) then to the customer.

Then they notice the limited capacities and the noises from the coach body and the body roll on cornering and the coach one side drops more in rolling bumps because of left to right weight differences and they steering wander and heavy feedback from cross ruts in the secondary rods construction and smells from the construction adhesives in hot areas and the sawdust behind the cabinets.

Sorry.  My normal rant as an x Foretravel factory store sales manager.

Been there.  Learned every brands good and bad points as that governed their resale value.

Almost bought a used rough condition country coach intrigue.  But it was $20k to redo the worn stored out of doors sikkens pained exterior.  Then do the inside stuff and fuel lines.

For free was not worth it.  I know better.  Told the seller I sold that exact coach brand new.

Well worth restoring my 97 as the coaches basic construction is bulletproof.  Will easily go another 20-30 years if I do not paint the outside dark colors IMO. 
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Kemahjohn on August 16, 2014, 03:53:04 pm
You are right about the dark painted coaches--- Foretravel acknowledged to us a couple of weeks ago that they are having problems with delamination in the black coaches.  I know it's the current fad, but who would want a hot black coach?  Water leaks are the other reasons for delamination-- the glues used in the vacuum bag build process are not water proof (not in 1996 for sure).  Water intrusion from leaks WILL cause delamination.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: kb0zke on August 16, 2014, 04:03:52 pm
If you go to the EAA's big shindig in Oshkosh you will find quite a few fiberglass homebuilts. The vast majority of them are mostly white. Even the metal birds are often mostly white.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Caflashbob on August 16, 2014, 04:55:17 pm
You are right about the dark painted coaches--- Foretravel acknowledged to us a couple of weeks ago that they are having problems with delamination in the black coaches.  I know it's the current fad, but who would want a hot black coach?  Water leaks are the other reasons for delamination-- the glues used in the vacuum bag build process are not water proof (not in 1996 for sure).  Water intrusion from leaks WILL cause delamination.

Those who learned histories lessons about this issue are gone
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: John S on August 17, 2014, 02:29:13 pm
Never would have a black coach.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Caflashbob on August 17, 2014, 03:13:02 pm

Look around.  Most of the new coaches are black/dark
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: jake62 on August 18, 2014, 05:51:52 am
So did FT's chassis change at all when they introduced slides, or were they able to keep their semi-monocoque strength of the coach?
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Kemahjohn on August 18, 2014, 08:09:36 am
I believe that I am correct in saying that the original Grand Villa Unihome, and the later Unicoach without slides are True monocoque construction.  They added structural beam beneath the slides when they introduced them for more support, making that design semi- monocoque at that point.  Check Beam Alarm, he knows all!
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Caflashbob on August 18, 2014, 08:51:03 am
I believe that I am correct in saying that the original Grand Villa Unihome, and the later Unicoach without slides are True monocoque construction.  They added structural beam beneath the slides when they introduced them for more support, making that design semi- monocoque at that point.  Check Beam Alarm, he knows all!

Cm fore used to correct everyone on this issue.  As all unihomes and unicoaches have internal dividers they are all semi.

The sidewall construction with the slanted structure internally for strength had to be mostly eliminated and the floor structure heavily reinforced with large steel beams to allow for slide outs.  I bet Cm resisted this as long as possible.  Heavy. Arguably it ruined the unique design they had.


Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 18, 2014, 10:58:35 am
I believe that I am correct in saying that the original Grand Villa Unihome, and the later Unicoach without slides are True monocoque construction.  They added structural beam beneath the slides when they introduced them for more support, making that design semi- monocoque at that point.  Check Beam Alarm, he knows all!

The subframes front and rear keep any Foretravel from being true monocoque construction. True monocoque construction is found in a many buses but is more expensive to manufacture as most of them use a lot of aluminum. They are also a lot stiffer. My old 4107 was true monocoque construction, handled well enough to be called the sports car of buses and never even creaked going off paved roads.

Pierce
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Caflashbob on August 18, 2014, 12:28:32 pm
The subframes front and rear keep any Foretravel from being true monocoque construction. True monocoque construction is found in a many buses but is more expensive to manufacture as most of them use a lot of aluminum. They are also a lot stiffer. My old 4107 was true monocoque construction, handled well enough to be called the sports car of buses and never even creaked going off paved roads.

Pierce

Let me finish what cm fore said.  "A true monocoque structure has no internal dividers.  Like an egg shell.  Since we use internal dividers we are a semi monocoque design"
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: bobnkathy on August 18, 2014, 12:29:26 pm
You are right about the dark painted coaches--- Foretravel acknowledged to us a couple of weeks ago that they are having problems with delamination in the black coaches.  I know it's the current fad, but who would want a hot black coach?  Water leaks are the other reasons for delamination-- the glues used in the vacuum bag build process are not water proof (not in 1996 for sure).  Water intrusion from leaks WILL cause delamination.

Hey Folks,

We had a 2007 Foretravel Nimbus and had many problems with the exterior paint work. First, we had terrible crazing (hope I spelled this correct) around the entire coach. We had Foretravel repair this during warranty and after warranty - a total of five years. We also had a serious delamentation under the drivers window because of a water leak. The window itself did not leak but where the front cap met the sidewall, there the water came in. They (Foretravel) assumed the glue to hold the trim piece covering the seam would keep water out. Apparently, using limited glue on the trim did not work. This explained to me why Foretravel repaired the other trim pieces found where the rear cap and side walls met. When we had the delamination issue in year seven, we assumed Foretravel would cover this repair since it was not good for their reputation. At first the warranty manager stated it was not their problem but after hours of debate, they did cover the cost. I also saw two other Nimbus 2007 coaches at Foretravel with the same issues. Some were built in the spring of 2006 like mine and some we built in late 2007. I have now sold my coach and went to Prevost with my needs. I too had wondered about this problem when we were thinking of either buying an IH or Prevost. Since most IH at the time were painted black, we were very nervous of a similar problem.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: D.J. Osborn on August 18, 2014, 12:38:37 pm
Let me finish what cm fore said.  "A true monocoque structure has no internal dividers.  Like an egg shell.  Since we use internal dividers we are a semi monocoque design"

That's how our 1995 U320 is constructed, and I believe it's the best overall method of construction.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Caflashbob on August 18, 2014, 09:22:42 pm
Hey Folks,

We had a 2007 Foretravel Nimbus and had many problems with the exterior paint work. First, we had terrible crazing (hope I spelled this correct) around the entire coach. We had Foretravel repair this during warranty and after warranty - a total of five years. We also had a serious delamentation under the drivers window because of a water leak. The window itself did not leak but where the front cap met the sidewall, there the water came in. They (Foretravel) assumed the glue to hold the trim piece covering the seam would keep water out. Apparently, using limited glue on the trim did not work. This explained to me why Foretravel repaired the other trim pieces found where the rear cap and side walls met. When we had the delamination issue in year seven, we assumed Foretravel would cover this repair since it was not good for their reputation. At first the warranty manager stated it was not their problem but after hours of debate, they did cover the cost. I also saw two other Nimbus 2007 coaches at Foretravel with the same issues. Some were built in the spring of 2006 like mine and some we built in late 2007. I have now sold my coach and went to Prevost with my needs. I too had wondered about this problem when we were thinking of either buying an IH or Prevost. Since most IH at the time were painted black, we were very nervous of a similar problem.

The entire Rv industry had a crazing problem as I understand it from a problem from Dow chemical.  Dark areas.  Seen many different brands from those years with the same issues in the darkly painted areas. 

Country coach guy in utah when we were in a car showed me his at a rest stop. Something with the resin?
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: JohnFitz on August 18, 2014, 09:37:30 pm
To the best of my knowledge:

Pre-2000:  U280, U300, U270, U295, U320 are "no-slide" with truss steel structure in walls and no frame rails at all. Very weight efficient structure.  No frame rails means great basement storage and tanks can be simple rectangular shape and thus larger that if you had a frame rail to work around.

2000-2001 "one slide coaches": Same as above but had to add a truss structure under the floor on drivers side (side with slide).  The truss is located all the way outboard on driver side and greatly hampers basement access on that side - I would imagine full extension joey beds were popular on the passenger side.

2002 -today "multi-slide": Frame rails added.  Just too many "holes" in structure otherwise.

Something else to note:  Foretravel also made their own suspension - the 8 outboard air bag system (tag will have 10).  Started with the first U300 in 1987(?) and I think is still used (largely unchanged) on the rear suspension on today's coaches.  Obviously was replaced with IFS on the front axle.  One thing that seems to go unsung, is how reliable these suspensions are.  I can't recall any posts regarding issues with these (OK Michelle, see if you can find one?)  Very stout built.  I don't think even Country Coach ever built their own suspension - Monaco did copy it for a while on their Signatures.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Caflashbob on August 18, 2014, 09:49:16 pm
To the best of my knowledge:

Pre-2000:  U280, U300, U270, U295, U320 are "no-slide" with truss steel structure in walls and no frame rails at all. Very weight efficient structure.  No frame rails means great basement storage and tanks can be simple rectangular shape and thus larger that if you had a frame rail to work around.

2000-2001 "one slide coaches": Same as above but had to add a truss structure under the floor on drivers side (side with slide).  The truss is located all the way outboard on driver side and greatly hampers basement access on that side - I would imagine full extension joey beds were popular on the passenger side.

2002 -today "multi-slide": Frame rails added.  Just too many "holes" in structure otherwise.

Something else to note:  Foretravel also made their own suspension - the 8 outboard air bag system (tag will have 10).  Started with the first U300 in 1987(?) and I think is still used (largely unchanged) on the rear suspension on today's coaches.  Obviously was replaced with IFS on the front axle.  One thing that seems to go unsung, is how reliable these suspensions are.  I can't recall any posts regarding issues with these (OK Michelle, see if you can find one?)  Very stout built.  I don't think even Country Coach ever built their own suspension - Monaco did copy it for a while on their Signatures.

Country coach used ridewell or neway if memory served me.  Beaver used gillig which had a very nice proprietary true bus front suspension and a multi air bag per side ridewell rear in the 91's and up.

Monaco copied the Foretravel unihome setup after I showed my Monaco buddies the coach at the dodger Rv show.  They modded it enough to not get sued.

The rear axle setup on their version has the locating arms facing forward versus both Foretravel axle assemblies are trailing beam.

Lots of Monaco bushing and panhard rod bushings replaced on their copies over the years.

I mentioned the non quality copy later to their engineering vp one  day as Enoch was an old buddy from so cal street racing days in the 60's and he laughed.  "Most of our customers will trade in four years bob"

No mercy at all  square edges were the issue. Super slab no problems. Secondary roads? Problem.

Trailing beam hard to hurt or wear out like the landing gear on a navy jet fighter.  Hinged from the front.  Kicks up after the fulcrum point has passed the object. 
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Tim Fiedler on August 18, 2014, 11:05:08 pm
2000 has truss and minhs full extension Joey beds
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: twobus on August 19, 2014, 11:20:47 am
I've been on the road in a couple high end and fairly new SOB's. Our '89 u280 rides better.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Caflashbob on August 19, 2014, 02:12:30 pm
I've been on the road in a couple high end and fairly new SOB's. Our '89 u280 rides better.

Each air bag runs 1\2 internal pressure of a single installation.  Locating the bags at the outside edge of the body under the load reduces any sway. 

Add good shocks and we win
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Gary B on October 07, 2020, 01:51:31 pm
This was exactly the thread I was looking for. One problem it refers heavily to Barry Beam and the link is gone. I looked for Barry's website it too has gone. Does anyone know if that chassis information has been imported to this forum anyhwere?Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: muskyman475 on October 07, 2020, 02:16:10 pm
Try this

All Things Foretravel | Formerly Beam Alarm - Barry and Darlene Brideau's... (http://www.allthingsforetravel.com/)
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: muskyman475 on October 07, 2020, 02:16:46 pm
Enter chassis in search column
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: DayDreamer on October 07, 2020, 02:19:38 pm

This was exactly the thread I was looking for. One problem it refers heavily to Barry Beam and the link is gone. I looked for Barry's website it too has gone. Does anyone know if that chassis information has been imported to this forum anyhwere?Thanks in advance!
You might try the like at this Post with Wayback time machine link (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=37967.msg399561#msg399561) web archive.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: Michelle on October 07, 2020, 03:26:01 pm
Foreforums and our Wiki have a wealth of info. 

start [ForeForums Foretravel Motorcoach Wiki] (http://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php)

The majority of info on other sites originated here and in the old Yahoo Group, which is part of our archive.  You can use the forum search engine (Community -> Search) to pinpoint it.
Title: Re: FT Chassis
Post by: MisterEd on October 15, 2020, 12:39:27 am
2000-2001 "one slide coaches": Same as above but had to add a truss structure under the floor on drivers side (side with slide).  The truss is located all the way outboard on driver side and greatly hampers basement access on that side - I would imagine full extension joey beds were popular on the passenger side.
2000-2001 also had a reinforcement above the slide. This is made from steel tube, is attached to the aluminum roof side corner and steel wall structure with many 5/16" screws, and extends beyond the opening, both ends, about 18". I wouldn't call it a truss, since it lacks triangulating members, but it does appear to use the roof corner as a shear plane. This is in addition to the steel tube in the wall structure above the slide opening. With the slide retracted, the 4 locking pins tie the triangulated slide to the wall.

Not sure I would want to park a Cadillac on it, but it is very sturdy.