Hey all,
We're in Des Moines and felt steering difficulty start to increase. We pulled into a parking lot and as we were waiting for the traffic light the temp started to rise. As we rounded the turn I could see we were trailing something. Hydraulic oil is *everywhere*. We tried to clean some up but it's an epic disaster. When I started the motor it looked like it was spraying from the fuel pump area. Anybody know where we should take it for quality not super expensive service? At least I hope the issue is not the fan motor but I don't even know where to begin. If I get under there I get a face full of hot oil because it is sprayed all over the place by the fan.
No mechanics, but if you have Coach-Net or another service I'd suggest you call them. You might also check the member map to see if anyone is near you.
On edit: Jerry Hurley is SW of you. Maybe he can give you some advice.
@piku Been there done that! That hydraulic oil (really just Delo 400) causes a huge mess! Go to Walmart or whatever discount center and buy several rolls of the blue paper shop towels in the auto section. They work pretty good. You'll also need to wash your toad a couple of times...
If the oil is being blown around by your fan it's probably the fan motor seal. Yours probably has 2 fans and motors. All the motors I've seen have been aluminum body with steel gears and are not rebuildable. :(
Any truck shop should be able to fix. They will just be trading out parts. Be sure they check the drain hose from the fan motors. If it's clogged it will build up excessive pressure and blow the seals out of the new fan motor. (Don't ask how I know) :(
Keep posting as you know more.
Good luck!
ken
First, do NOT drive with it out of fluid. You could easily damage other components in the hydraulic system.
So, start by identifying the source of the leak.
No I stopped. There is definitely still oil in the system. We started it up to track the leak down. Once I knew where to look it was easy to spot. It came out of one of the two hoses right by the output of the hydraulic pump where they rub together in a zip tie. Hard to say which one without getting into it but we know now a hose blew at a friction point. It appears to be the hose that goes to the power steering. I did notice effort gradually increasing and only after some time of that did the fan stop working and the temp rise. I believe I need to splice and replace a section of that power steering line. Perhaps also check the steering stops to see if pressure built up too high.
Please don't splice the hose, there is too much pressure going thru that hose. Take your hose off and take to NAPA to have the hose replaced. We had the same thing happen to us, hose broke in the same place. The most expensive part was replacing lost hydralic fluid, it was synthetic. Good luck to you. We were lucky to be near a NAPA and were back on the road in short order.
Ben Harris
1999 U320 40'
Losing a hose sucks but is way better than losing the fan motor. Believe it or not you're lucky!
see ya
ken
Oh I read your saga believe me I know! The mobile mechanic says it is probably a #8 hose and probably can be repaired today. Good sam is sending one out. Not sure I like that we can't really pick the provider. How long is this hose? Does it run to the front or does it go to a metal line after a few feet? I can't see where it terminates. I was a little leery of claiming anything about the fan motor while the repair is not yet done. Murphy and his laws and all.
anyone who spends a few minutes under their coach is likely to find a few hoses or
electrical bundles that need to be separated to prevent rubbing on something that
will cause a problem. been there.
There are usually many places where hoses rub against something else or against another hose. We think it is important to take a handful of wire ties and maybe split some old rubber hose and look everywhere for these rub points and secure them with several wire ties. A periodic check can save some major agravations.
We also use Locktite Extend spray Rust Converter Spray, Extend Rust Neutralizer from Loctite Adhesives (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/s_trmt_extend_spray/overview/Loctite-Extend-Rust-Neutralizer-Spray.htm) can to cover rust areas, without cleaning off rust before spraying. Found our transmission heat exchanger with a rust looking surface and it now is protected with Extend, and maybe extend the life of the heat exchanger.
I don't know. Now I'm worried. The mobile mechanic they sent out is an idiot. He's still here trying ot hold us hostage to get paid by good sam. This is the second and last good sam experience I'm going to have. I sent him into his van, spent a half hour raising the rear of the coach is the 12v aux compressor and blocking it. When I got under I decided to identify the exact source and as it turns out it's the 1" (or so) aeroquip line. turn the one fan blade and it drops some oil out a nice giant hole.
Now I'm worried that maybe the fan is a problem so pressure built too high and it blew. Is that a typical failure mode for the fan motor(s)?
No, not a typical failure. Was the hose abraded as you suspected?
Piku, my thoughts on that hose from a few thousand miles away.
Oil will drip out if you rotate the fan blades no matter what caused it. It is now acting as a pump and any movement of the inside of unit will displace oil and find the easiest way out.
Does the hose LOOK like it burst OUT or is there as you first said a major rubbing mark that just weakened the layers of hose.?? Hydraulic hoses generally have a few layers to hold in the pressure and if they are comprimised obviously it will burst as that now is the weakest link. Double check and if you can take a good quality close picture of that area of hose and post it. We cannot fix it from here but maybe at least give an opinion and ease your mind some?
JohnH
It's on the top of the hose so I can't really see it. It does feel burst. That said it is precisely where it was ziptied to the power steering hose. There was more abraision where it was rubbing on metal coolant pipe and it didn't rupture there. One guy is telling me aeroquip hose is not suitable for oil/hydraulic purposes. That same guy is telling me that he's seen these hoses blow before without necessarily having a cause. He said dropping a gear can spike the pressure and cause issues on a weak hose.
I wil say though yesterday I noticed that the temperature would sometimes sit at 180 on the gauge and sometiems sit right at 190. One time it climbed up to 190 and just sat there. I didn't think much of it though because I thought the fans kick on high at 190 and it was cool outside so I figured it woudl probably bounce to one value and stay there depending on how strong the crosswind we were experiencing was. but maybe there was more to it.
We had a hydraulic hose break from rubbing. Bad news: a real mess; good news: car will never rust! had the hose replaced and put a piece of radiator hose around it and others where it rubbed. Were at HWH and found a brake pressure hose that had been rubbing against the drive shaft. Had another made a big longer and tied it and others up out of the way. ^.^d
May be true on the aero hoses but I would think that one has been in the coach since new so it has not done too bad in all those years. If you have had the hose changed then I guess you are good to go (or once it is changed)
JohnH
Got the hose out. IMHO it's definitely abrasion. A very concentrated small spot. The abrasion on the coolant pipe was much more spread out so it didn't quite wear through yet. But it's on its way. The braiding underneath is rusty. I'll post a pic when I get one in the daylight. NAPA here is open on sunday. Crossing my fingers they have what I need.
PS. Whoever engineered the elbows and connectors on the fan motor is very mean. It's very difficult to fit giant wrenches in such small spaces.
My thought is you will have to get it made to suit. It would also be a good idea like Barry said to get some old hose and cut a 12" length the slice it open with a knife and slide it over that area then both tape it closed and maybe use a couple of Ty wraps at both ends and this will save it from rubbing through again. it also would be good to ty it back away from that offending part. Good luck and don't forget to replace the oil!!
JohnH
Not uncommon to find a NAPA that also makes up hoses, hopefully that will be your experience. These things are generic, get the right ends, hose diameter, length and pressure rating (hydraulic hoses are generally one, two or three wire, that's the number of wire reinforcements that wrap around the hose under the shielding rubber or fabric) and you're good to go. This is a pretty much continuing operation for someone with a couple of backhoes or loaders, all replacement hoses are generally custom made. They can cut the ends off the old hose and tell what pressure rating it is by looking at reinforcement.
Good luck, this should be an easy one. Easy to say when I'm not the one doing it....
There is a Cummins there.
Cummins Central Power, Llc (2941)
1680 Ne 51st Avenue
Des Moines, Iowa 50313
County/District: Polk
United States
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Customer Service: (515) 262-9591 4.7 mi
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Found a NAPA who couldn't make the hose (but actually could because they thought it was 1" hose when it was really 3/4. They sent me to another NAPA who actually invited me back to the press and showed me the fittings where we concerned that 1" was no good. We made the right hose, fittings with 37 degree flare and I was off. Put it in, tightened the ends as best I could, filled the oil and all seems well. We just drove an hour. The part of the story I left out is my interaction with iowa state police who were quite dramatically convinced I was some kind of drug trafficker. Really really really bad experience.
And for my information, the power steering hoses are one piece flexible hydraulic hoses that run the entire length? so I would have had to pull a whole new hose?
Oh and what to do about all the oil all over everything? steam clean? let it go?
@piku You're not the first to cuss some of the FOT engineers. :) Awesome news that you were able to get it out! Hopefully NAPA can help you out if not on Monday look for a hydraulic shop. Do a search for "hydraulic hose des moines ia". You'll get 10 or 12 hits!
If you end up at a hydraulic shop pick up some heavy duty spiral guard wrap. The #10 size was $5 a foot when I bought it. It's worth it. A whole lot easier and neater to put on than wrapping with a slit water hose. This isn't the one I used but was the best picture I could find. I have no idea what brand mine is I couldn't find a label. Unisource (http://www.unisource-mfg.com/products/oneproduct.php?productid=146&categoryid=72)
Hopefully the rest of your trip will be trouble free!
see ya
ken
Thanks ken, I'll definitely need that as the power steering hose is rubbed well too. It may fail some day. Hopefully if I protect it it may last a bit.
piku,
I recently purchased a couple of gallons of extreme simple green aircraft and precision cleaner as suggested by another member from Amazon and the stuff is really fantastic. It's bio-degradeable and designed for the aircraft industry. They also make a product designed for motorsport vehicles. The reason I bought extreme simple green for aircraft and precision cleaning is that it is safe for aluminum, plastics, paints, coatings, insect residue, etc. Amazon.com: Simple Green 13406 Extreme Aircraft and Precision Cleaner, 1 Gallon (http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Green-13406-Aircraft-Precision/dp/B001VXU7OE)
So far I have used it on my vehicle engines with good results. The U300 is next when I'm ready to tackle that project. I used a 1:1 mixture in a spray bottle with a large soft brush to apply and rinsed with a pressured garden hose. Some people might be tempted to use a pressure washer but if you do be careful not to use a very powerful one. The videos explain it well. Use wide screen for viewing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=17b0zfVcTio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17b0zfVcTio#)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DAZF-IATEI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DAZF-IATEI#ws)
Jerry
We like a product called Krud Kutter, works very well on oil and grease and is also a " green" product.
Steam clean yes, pressure wash no. With all the electrical connectors you will force water into them and make problems down the road. Cummings recommend steam cleaning.
keith
You know i have a bottle of P21S soap that I think I am going to try. The majority of the loose oil drips blew off and now there is just a film left. I'm just hoping for no more issues. This has been aqua hot fuel pump, tag axle bag and now hydraulic hose in short order. I know all of them are not *real* problems like some have had (fan motor, etc) but still troublesome for us.
What is the OD of the hose.. 1.25"?
As long as the outer cover is not (open) to the weave, a spiral wrap should get you down the road for a long time.
I had to replace a hydraulic line @ the radiator because the PO had drug the coach over a curb which ripped the cover and weave enough to get my attention. Parker does have a better grade of hose BTW.
Not a well thought design to start with FWIW.
Good time to service the system too.. pc
When I had my coach serviced my a mobile mechanic a few years ago, he found three hoses rubbing and close to failure. He ordered the hoses and came back in a few days to replace them. Needless to say, now I ask the mechanic to inspect for such issues every time I have it serviced. So far it has been good, but I plan to have the split loom added next time.
The hose was 3/4" technically. The OD is 1 1/8". As far as the service, indeed. For whatever reason even though I did the generator service, engine coolant, oil, transmission fluid and all filters, as well as a bunch of other stuff, I never got around to the hydraulic system. my wife was surprised to see me installing new filters and I told her "hey might as well, the reservoir is empty!"
Anything over (you pick em') so many years old, needs to have the hoses replaced. Hand made fittings are excellent for this, since the hose is all that's replaced. Trouble is, the legal side of things has changed this from the hose making business side of things. Personally, I prefer making up (rebuilding) my own, in spite of the legal issues.
If you can find a shop that isn't bothered with the current line of thinking, all the better. Give them your OE blown/chaffed assembly and let them replace (just) the hose. It will save you some money too. pc
PC I'm not sure what you mean by "legal issues". I've had hydraulic hoses made up in 4 different hydraulic shops in 3 different cities without any of the staff giving me a second look. Just took the hose in and walked out with a new one. (wallet was a little lighter)
see ya
ken
I had hydraulic hoses made up by Car Quest in Alamorgodo NM with no problems.
Roland
Dealing with the local hose maker, if I take in a rebuildable hydraulic hose and request a new hose to replace the old ruptured hose, (in my case) they will only duplicate it with a swage ended completely new assembly (w/fittings too.)
If you have a vendor that will replace old hose and use the old rebuildable fitting.. excellent.
I was told that for legal(?) reasons, finding a vendor that will rebuild (w/old fittings,) a hydraulic line is starting to be history.. pc
@pc got it now. You're talking about having them reuse the "field serviceable" ends and just do new hose. I would be very surprised it any would do that. As you said legal issues...
see ya
ken
Legal issues or not, it seems that it would only make sense to use new hoses. Why risk whatever potential problems might be lurking in the old hoses?