Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Hammer2100 on September 19, 2014, 11:41:39 pm

Title: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Hammer2100 on September 19, 2014, 11:41:39 pm
   Hi to all. I'm new to the forum. But I'm here because we just bought a U280. We love it. I'm sort of a GEARHEAD, should say I'm a mechanical NUTCASE. But I have a question. I was take a good look in under, around, and found something. Weight is a big problem.                                    But why is there two large boxes of concrete in front of the front axle on our Foretravel. It looks to me it was an after thought.        A recall?              Or can I remove a half a ton of concrete. I'm sure someone else here has seen them before. If not any ideas?
    Thanks for any help. Hammer2100
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on September 20, 2014, 08:06:32 am
Keeps the front end from getting light when you exceed 100 MPH?  :))

Photos!  We need photos of this strange "accessory".

By the way, welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Tom Lang on September 20, 2014, 08:19:36 am
The weights are needed to counter the weigh of the engine behind the rear wheels. Keep them there or the front will be too light for good handling.

Think of it as a teeter totter with Bubba sitting way out on the other two. A lot of weight up front was needed when the engine migrated to the back.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Roland Begin on September 20, 2014, 08:50:04 am
I have spent a bit of time under my coach, don't remember seeing any concrete. Just looked and there still is no concrete on the front of my coach.

Roland
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: kb0zke on September 20, 2014, 09:02:30 am
I don't recall seeing any under mine, either. Please post some pictures.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Tim Fiedler on September 20, 2014, 09:17:28 am
To replace a generator that was there and may no longer be there???
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Gary Bouland (RIP) on September 20, 2014, 09:59:12 am
The safe on my U280 looked like a block of concrete from under the front of the coach, it of course was obvious what it was when position was looked at from inside.  Where is the safe in yours ? In front of the passenger seat ? Can't imagine what use  blocks of concrete would be in a FT.
Gary B
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on September 20, 2014, 10:43:37 am
The weights are needed to counter the weigh of the engine behind the rear wheels. Keep them there or the front will be too light for good handling.
Think of it as a teeter totter with Bubba sitting way out on the other two. A lot of weight up front was needed when the engine migrated to the back.

Tom,

What's the name of the game where you try and convince other players your answer is the correct one? Not going for this one. :D

Tim, no generator up there. It's back further on the side.

Gary. You got it Toyota! Bottom of the safe looks like a block of concrete. A thousand Detroit Diesel playing cards and tips. ^.^d

I'm under there all the time trying to figure out how to move the air tanks and mount the spare tire in the nose. No concrete anywhere.

Pierce

Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: John Haygarth on September 20, 2014, 11:52:20 am
Ha could it be missing Jimmy Hoffa as I am sure he would have liked a FT??
JohnH
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: wa_desert_rat on September 20, 2014, 12:20:19 pm
Ha could it be missing Jimmy Hoffa as I am sure he would have liked a FT??
JohnH

I was about to post the same thing. LOL :D :D

Craig
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Don Hay on September 20, 2014, 02:45:14 pm
The only reason he might have put concrete in front would be if he had a motorcycle mounted on the rear or perhaps pulled a heavy trailer and wanted a counter-balance.  The generator is directly behind the front axle on the driver's side in a 280.  I'd remove that concrete in a heartbeat.  Unnecessary weight.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Don Hay on September 20, 2014, 02:56:21 pm
What year 280 is it?  I take it the generator is still there?  An Onan 7.5KW diesel?  Plenty of weight near the front.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Carol Savournin on September 20, 2014, 05:36:11 pm
We had a '93 U225 ... no concrete, but the safe would be a very good bet, I am thinking. It was in front of the passenger seat up front ... many folks do not know it is there!  We put a little bit of fishing line attached to the flap that conceals it, just to make it easier to get to. 
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: fouroureye on September 20, 2014, 06:08:38 pm
Ours is build #4539, 94 like yours - no additional anything up front. ::)

I'm sure it's a owner added item, unless you have a special need for some kind counter weight, it's not a manufacturer item.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Kent Speers on September 20, 2014, 06:24:27 pm
I'm betting on a misidentified safe. If not, call James Triana at Foretravel. He was there when your coach was built and may well have worked on the crew building it.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: JohnFitz on September 20, 2014, 10:23:31 pm
FYI:  The safe should be protruding down only about an inch or so as visible from under the coach.  The majority of it lies between the elevated front seat deck (floor) and main coach floor, right under the passengers feet.  And should only have one safe.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Hammer2100 on September 20, 2014, 11:27:24 pm
It's not the safe. I'll post photos Sunday. There is really two large boxes of concrete there. I though about Jimmy, but I also though about a owner and wife that always wanted to keep their Foretravel. Did anyone think of that one!  I've already decided to remove them. Maybe lost treasrue,anyone want them.        You'll all get a laugh.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Hammer2100 on September 20, 2014, 11:32:32 pm
What year 280 is it?  I take it the generator is still there?  An Onan 7.5KW diesel?  Plenty of weight near the front.



Don, it's a 1994, Gen is 10kw.
Thanks Hammer2100 AKA Mark C.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: sedelange on September 20, 2014, 11:43:49 pm
I am thinking you might want to sell them as is, or start a raffle. Someone may have encased bars of gold or other treasure for safe storage. No telling what valuable item could be hidden inside.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: twobus on September 21, 2014, 01:01:54 am
 :)) :))

OK, I got a laugh outta this thread. I was all ready to guess floor safe y'all beat me to it!
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: rbark on September 21, 2014, 01:09:06 am
Any idea what they weigh?
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: sedelange on September 21, 2014, 01:24:15 am
About 133 pounds per cubic foot.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Caflashbob on September 21, 2014, 02:37:22 am
I had a customer hide 150 pounds of gold in the same  year and model coach.  Real story.

Ex wife was upset as it was $1,000,000 dollars in 1989. 

Always wondered what happened to Mr Robinsons coach/money.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: D.J. Osborn on September 21, 2014, 06:51:25 am
Perhaps it's the most valuable U280 ever!?!
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: twobus on September 21, 2014, 09:01:59 am
I am not too ashamed to admit that I checked that floor safe with just a bit of "Geraldo opening Capone's secret room" drama playing though my head. Let's just say we didn't find a Right Front weight bias!
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on September 21, 2014, 11:16:17 am
I got it!  The extra weight is to improve steering control when the snow plow is attached.  At least that's what I have on my tractor.

Roger
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Hammer2100 on September 21, 2014, 09:38:44 pm
   OK guys here is my evidence. I'm not crazy, well at least about the concrete.
Any ideas how to get them down with out killing me? Glad this has m
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: amos.harrison on September 21, 2014, 09:44:51 pm
That sure looks stock.  I'd check with James T.  It may indeed be for weight balance.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Pamela & Mike on September 21, 2014, 09:51:49 pm
Mike thinks that looks like a Mass Dampener. Helped to keep the van from rockin' so no one will come knocking.

Where does my DH come up with this foolishness?

Pamela
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: wolfe10 on September 21, 2014, 10:03:36 pm
Run it over some scales and check axle weights-- inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Tom Lang on September 21, 2014, 10:06:47 pm
Just leave them in place. They serve an important weight and balance issue.

Back in the early days of mass produced diesel pushers, manufacturers had serious handling issues due to the weight of the engine far behind the rear axle. Like a teeter totter, that weight makes the front end light, often too light for good steering control.

This is why manufacturers got away from shorter lengths, put safes and generators as far forward as possible, and in some cases added concrete ballast. I don't know if Foretravel added the concrete, but I do know other manufacturers did.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: John Haygarth on September 21, 2014, 10:18:15 pm
Now I am not an Engineer (remember!) but I would not think those angle supports would hold up much in the long run but they must have. If it was me I would remove them and see what happens when driving. If you need to put some weight back then use cast iron pieces, a bit at a time.
You may get better mileage without all that weight??
JohnH
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Caflashbob on September 21, 2014, 10:34:36 pm
Just leave them in place. They serve an important weight and balance issue.

Back in the early days of mass produced diesel pushers, manufacturers had serious handling issues due to the weight of the engine far behind the rear axle. Like a teeter totter, that weight makes the front end light, often too light for good steering control.

This is why manufacturers got away from shorter lengths, put safes and generators as far forward as possible, and in some cases added concrete ballast. I don't know if Foretravel added the concrete, but I do know other manufacturers did.

I remember a customer upset with me that Foretravel would not build him a 3176 short coach.  34-35 feet.  I mentioned weight balance to him and said it would drive poorly.

A year later I ran across him at an Rv show and he mentioned Hmc had built him that short 3176 coach. 

"How do you like the steering wander" I asked.  Very upset.  "But why can't they fix it" he asked me. 

I remember my answer now that this has come up here. "They were stupid to have built it and you were stupid to have bought it.

Their engineering department was a laptop computer I remember.

Careful what you ask for.  You might get it..,.,
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on September 22, 2014, 01:05:19 am
Bob,

Not so sure I'm buying the bad handling on a 34 or 35 footer. Ours is only a foot longer at 36 feet, has the heaviest engine and transmission available with three start batteries against the back bumper. Since we live in the mountains, we carry only enough fuel to get to the Sierra campgrounds and home again (22 gallons as it sits), less than a quarter tank of propane, no water or waste, no front generator. Ours never wanders or exhibits any poor handling traits and we have one corner after another up here in the clouds (should say thick smoke now). Nice and straight down the road with no harmonic front end bounce (original shocks too). I have locked up all six several times to avoid wildlife. I would not hesitate to buy a 33 foot version.

As far as a cement block goes, I would not drive around the block without first removing the parasitic cement ballast if I found any underneath. With it there, all I would be able to think about was how much extra fuel it was taking to go up a grade or how much extra braking to stop it. No free loaders allowed! Sounds like someone or something lacking in the alignment department to me.

Pierce
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Tom Lang on September 22, 2014, 01:35:44 am
The short wheelbase makes it very difficult to build a 34' diesel pusher motorhome with good handling.  To my knowledge, Foretravel, thanks to eight wide-set airbags, is the only one to pull it off.  It also helps that these 34 foot Foretravels all have the generator all the way up front and much of the heavy stuff as far forward as possible.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: joeszeidel on September 22, 2014, 06:32:45 am
It appears that they have been there for some time. I would as suggested contact Foretravel. I think it was done to improve steering and better tire wear. I am old car guy and when the 56 Thunderbird came out they installed a Continental Kit for the spare to give more room in the truck. When they put that weight to the rear it increased tire wear on the front tires and screwed up the steering. It may be for better balance. Check overall weight like Brett suggested. 
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: krush on September 22, 2014, 05:03:23 pm
The short wheelbase makes it very difficult to build a 34' diesel pusher motorhome with good handling.  To my knowledge, Foretravel, thanks to eight wide-set airbags, is the only one to pull it off.  It also helps that these 34 foot Foretravels all have the generator all the way up front and much of the heavy stuff as far forward as possible.

My axle weight on my 34(lbs): front: ~9,500 rear: 18,000. Mostly full water, full fuel, full propane.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Dwayne on September 24, 2014, 10:32:52 am
I've been thinking about adding some weight to the front of my coach.  It rides much better with full tank of water and full tank of fuel. There is a lot of empty space up under the front of a U240.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Caflashbob on September 24, 2014, 11:21:15 am
I've been thinking about adding some weight to the front of my coach.  It rides much better with full tank of water and full tank of fuel. There is a lot of empty space up under the front of a U240.

I filled every tank in the ORED's I sold in the 80's.

When customers asked  why it rode and drove better full than empty I explained it unlike my competitors was made to be used not sold.

The SOB's were sold twice.  Once to the dealer and the second time to the customer.  Both empty. 

Better acceleration empty.

Foretravel had only factory stores and 50% repeat business so they could be set better for the fully loaded use
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Hammer2100 on September 24, 2014, 08:37:51 pm
I've been thinking about adding some weight to the front of my coach.  It rides much better with full tank of water and full tank of fuel. There is a lot of empty space up under the front of a U240.


  Dwayne Come by my place on Saturday and help removing the two I have, bracket included. They are already to go. But bring something to load them with, also heard they maybe worth a Million.
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Hammer2100 on September 26, 2014, 09:30:24 pm
Just finished removing the weights and crossmember from my U280.
They were about 850 pounds and a litte bit difficult to weight. I just got called out to work but will road test Sunday. I can't wait. I think it Will drive better. ;D
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on September 27, 2014, 02:22:41 pm
Hammer,

When you take your coach out for a drive, you might check the brake bias. If the factory placed the weights up front, they may have installed a proportioning valve or changed front brake can size. The front can size would have been larger for more effective front braking with more weight up there.

Always fun to see which end locks up first in a wet parking lot.

Pierce
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: jor on September 29, 2014, 11:18:44 am
Quote
Always fun to see which end locks up first in a wet parking lot.
Doesn't that coach have an Anti-lock Braking System?
jor
Title: Re: Strange Weights found - boxes of concrete by U280 front axle?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on September 29, 2014, 02:25:16 pm
Doesn't that coach have an Anti-lock Braking System?
jor

Nope!

Pierce