Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Renovations => Topic started by: Wattalife54 on September 28, 2014, 12:14:53 pm
Title: Joey Bed
Post by: Wattalife54 on September 28, 2014, 12:14:53 pm
This morning we replaced the two front bearings on the joey bed hopefully for the last time. The story behind that statement comes with pain, laughter and even some tool throwing :facepalm: We store quite a lot of weight on the joey bed so at least once a year one of the front ball bearings would break, usually at the most inconvenient time. This required us to take everything off, replace the bearing and put everything back together. The other day, after an especially long and difficult day, Bob went to the joey bed to get some tools when he heard the distinct sound of yet another bearing break. We decided then and there that we needed a permanent solution to our weight issue breaking the bearings. Both Bob and I are not as spry as we used to be and it really takes a toll on our backs to replace these bearings. I told him in as gentle a way possible that I refuse to do this job again :snap: and he better figure out a way to fix it for the last time. Needless to say that this went over like a turd in a punch bowl and he decided that since weight was the problem that he didn't need so many tools and began to throw the tools on the ground. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed and he got on the internet and found bearings that would fit into our arrangement and have a load bearing of 4250 lbs. plus they are a roller bearing instead of a ball bearing. McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#1460t51/=tx5hc6) Our original ball bearings had a load capacity of 843 lbs.
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: krush on September 28, 2014, 01:44:54 pm
Which bearing would break, and how would it fail? Bearings are very hard material...thus they are fairly brittle. Impacts will usually crack or break them.
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Wattalife54 on September 28, 2014, 02:00:00 pm
The last two bearings see the most load when the bed is fully extended. The outer race cracked on each failure.
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: wa_desert_rat on September 28, 2014, 02:09:03 pm
That's a great find! We don't have a big load on our Joey Beds yet but I've always worried about bearing failures. Nice to have a solution at hand. :)
Craig
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Duane Budd on September 28, 2014, 03:56:49 pm
Gads! At $32.67 each. I am going to try to treat mine gently!!
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: TulsaTrent on September 28, 2014, 11:14:01 pm
Was the purpose of the washers just to get past the non-threaded part of the stud to attach the nut?
I don't know if it is because of the U320/U295 thing or the 1997/2000 thing, but my joey uses 1/2" bolts and nuts instead of the studs. I certainly like your significant increase in load bearing capacity. There appears to be something wrong with my two end bearings; both of them had duct tape wrapped around them. (Unless the PO used that to mask the bearings when he sprayed some kind of rust inhibitor onto the joey frame support, and then forgot to remove it.) I did check the other bearings and they all turn, but certainly do not spin which I am used to for ball bearings.
I have included pictures of my duct taped end bearings. Looking at the blown-up picture, I can clearly see how water got into the corners of my joey bed installation. Both bottom gaskets have a significant space at the corners.
How about the rest of you; do your joey beds use studs or bolts? Is there an advantage of one over the other?
Thanks,
Trent
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Wattalife54 on September 29, 2014, 06:54:45 am
Trent, I could not find a bearing with a fully threaded attachment stud. The washers were used as spacers. Our joey bed is assembled and held in place with bolts.
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: John Haygarth on September 29, 2014, 11:20:23 am
Bob & Faith, on those bearings did you notice a # on the side of them (or any info) as they usually do have a Manufactures # so these can be sourced from a Bearing house as the # on the Mc Master is their item # and does not come up on Google? I do not need any but I keep all info from Forum for parts etc in a file, just in case. Thx JohnH
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: TulsaTrent on September 29, 2014, 01:12:39 pm
I found what purports to have even better specs to my untrained eye. It is sold by ZORO and is only $16.12 each. Their product is made by Smith Bearing. The picture is from their website which shows a 1 1/4" bearing.
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcloudfront.zoro.com%2Fproduct%2Ffull%2F11Y086_AS01.JPG&hash=73470e4e0d218dd438d7044f690ff3f7" rel="cached" data-hash="73470e4e0d218dd438d7044f690ff3f7" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cloudfront.zoro.com/product/full/11Y086_AS01.JPG)
The one on this link is the 1 3/8" bearing we are discussing. Here is its web page:
SMITH BEARING Cam Follower, Crown, Stud, Hex Socket, Seal - G4079004 at Zoro (http://www.zoro.com/i/G4079004/?category=7701)
I have no independent knowledge of this company and have not (yet) purchased from them.
Hope this helps,
Trent
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Wattalife54 on September 29, 2014, 01:16:58 pm
John,
I took a picture of the box that showed the only # available. Believe it or not the total price I found @McMaster-Carr was better than any other source with the added shipping.
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Wattalife54 on September 29, 2014, 01:23:37 pm
Trent,
Good price. I looked and couldn't find anything near that price.
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: TulsaTrent on September 29, 2014, 01:33:06 pm
Zoro offers free shipping on orders over $25.00, although the fine print says that expires Sep 30.
Trent
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Dave and Nancy Abel on September 29, 2014, 02:02:25 pm
I too, recently replaced the outer bearings on the Joey bed. I used these bearings: http://kscdirect.com/item/GEN%2B22458-01/INDEPENDENT%2BDIST%2BCOOP%2BUSA_1200-31%250A (http://kscdirect.com/item/GEN%2B22458-01/INDEPENDENT%2BDIST%2BCOOP%2BUSA_1200-31%250A) I bought from MotionIndustries: http://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=03895575 (http://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=03895575) These are a open double row bearing, without seal or shield. I believe Bob and Faith's solution would be much better, although more expensive. Dave A
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Don & Tys on September 29, 2014, 02:07:29 pm
Does your Joey bed pull out on both sides? I would need 4 of them! On the other hand, they do seem like they will be a permanent fix... Don
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: TulsaTrent on September 29, 2014, 03:45:50 pm
The more expensive ones are using roller bearings. The less expensive one is using ball bearings, albeit a double row. Not being a mechanical engineer, I assume that the roller bearings are what afford the heavy load capacity. It sounds like the ball bearings are the ones that are breaking down. However, you can get four of them for less than one of the McMaster-Carr roller bearings.
Instead of "What's in your wallet?", the question should be "What's in your joey bed?"; how much weight are you asking those ball bearings to support?
Bob and Faith, who started this thread, were frustrated with the physicality of having to replace the bearings, now for the third time. They found the roller bearing with a load capacity of nearly five times that of their ball bearings. Their expectation/hope is that they will never have to change them again. Your needs may be different.
Hope this helps,
Trent
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Don & Tys on September 29, 2014, 03:49:48 pm
Admittedly, our Joeybed is heavily loaded. I like bullet proof (or idiot proof ::)) wherever possible. So bearings that can support twice whatever I might put in it sounds like a decent investment to me... even at the McMaster-Carr price. Though the price you found is much more attractive! That said, I have bought much at MC over the past few years, and I trust them to deliver. Still, I think I will be ordering some from the site you found. ;D Don
Instead of "What's in your wallet?", the question should be "What's in your joey bed?"; how much weight are you asking those ball bearings to support? Trent
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Wattalife54 on September 29, 2014, 03:56:18 pm
Here's what a loaded Joey bed looks like. We are fulltimers, so every tool I own travels with us.
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: TulsaTrent on September 29, 2014, 04:07:50 pm
Dave, comparing your pictures with mine (reply #5, above), I see that yours also has a bolt and nut. However, looking at mine, mine seem to be installed backwards, with the bolt head on the outside, where there is a lot of room, and the nut on the inside. Not only is it putting the additional length on the inside, but, if the bolt is not threaded all the way, the inner bearing is now rotating on the threaded portion.
BTW, I cannot tell from your pictures; do you have a washer on either or both sides of your bearing? It seems like one would be useful, if not necessary; or is it?
Thanks,
Trent
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: TulsaTrent on September 29, 2014, 04:15:58 pm
Bob,
My wife and I hope to be fulltiming next year. I have to have several garage sales between now and then. For example, I probably no longer need to carry around my 25 pound box of sixteen-penny nails.
Unfortunately, that list is very, very long. It is amazing how much stuff you can accumulate in a 3,000+ sq ft house, plus a 12'x20' shop. We figure that if we fulltime for at least three years, our new sticks and bricks home will not have to be very large to feel like a mansion!
Trent
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Dave and Nancy Abel on September 29, 2014, 04:29:51 pm
Dave, comparing your pictures with mine (reply #5, above), I see that yours also has a bolt and nut. However, looking at mine, mine seem to be installed backwards, with the bolt head on the outside, where there is a lot of room, and the nut on the inside. Not only is it putting the additional length on the inside, but, if the bolt is not threaded all the way, the inner bearing is now rotating on the threaded portion.
BTW, I cannot tell from your pictures; do you have a washer on either or both sides of your bearing? It seems like one would be useful, if not necessary; or is it?
Thanks,
Trent
Howdy Trent, These are shoulder bolts so the inner race is on the shoulder. One washer between the bearing and the frame. Just a plain jane 1/2" cut washer. The head of the bolt is directly on the inner race of bearing.. The bolt has to be orientated this direction, as the threaded section is too long. BTW, these double row (heavy duty) bearings replaced the original single row bearings and actually, has been a big improvement in the ease of operation. I'm not sure if you can read the invoice clearly, but around $7 bucks for the bearing.. With taxes and shipping raises cost to around $10. Some of the larger MI shops may have them in stock. Good Luck, Dave A ps. Our hometown is Miami, OK just up I44 road from you.
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: TulsaTrent on September 29, 2014, 04:39:04 pm
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Wattalife54 on September 29, 2014, 05:09:57 pm
Trent,
Faith and I moved from a 600 sf condo in St Croix, directly into the coach. Fortunately we didn't even move everything we owned, so the transition was quite easy. Six years later and we still have some empty cabinets :)
Title: Re: Joey Bed
Post by: Rick on October 30, 2014, 03:25:34 pm
I found what purports to have even better specs to my untrained eye. It is sold by ZORO and is only $16.12 each. Their product is made by Smith Bearing. The picture is from their website which shows a 1 1/4" bearing.
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcloudfront.zoro.com%2Fproduct%2Ffull%2F11Y086_AS01.JPG&hash=73470e4e0d218dd438d7044f690ff3f7" rel="cached" data-hash="73470e4e0d218dd438d7044f690ff3f7" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cloudfront.zoro.com/product/full/11Y086_AS01.JPG)
The one on this link is the 1 3/8" bearing we are discussing. Here is its web page:
SMITH BEARING Cam Follower, Crown, Stud, Hex Socket, Seal - G4079004 at Zoro (http://www.zoro.com/i/G4079004/?category=7701)
I have no independent knowledge of this company and have not (yet) purchased from them.
Hope this helps,
Trent
I installed some of these today in my large joey bed. Purchased from Zoro, p/n G4079004, bought 4 and shipping was free. Shipping was super fast but I recommend calling and checking stock first. Real easy job. Empty out the bed, extend bed, no need to remove the bed just lift the extended end and block it up. There is enough room to remove the old bearing and put in the new one. As previously mentioned you need to cut down about 6 washers for each bearing. No need for a washer on the bearing side, just the nut side to take up the unthreaded portion of the protruding stud. Tools need; 3/4" socket/ratchet, 1/4" allen wrench. I also used a round file to open the hole up slightly, I did not want to pound the bearing into the hole, the old ones came out a little hard so I opted to reduce the interference fit a little bit to a snug fit. A thank you out to Trent for the timely info as one of my bearing broke last week,