I'm trying to get the correct information on the oil capacity for my M11. The Foretravel book indicates 43 quarts including the filter, however, when I fill the crankcase from empty it takes substantially less to reach the full mark on the dipstick.
I called Cummins and gave them my engine number and the number stamped on the oil pan. Cummins said it is a 9 gallon oil pan, just like most other M11 pans. So I could pour 9 gallons into an empty pan and another gallon into my filter and I'd have a 40 quart system. This will register waaaaay high on my dipstick.
Cummins says they installed the plate that bolts to the block and the tube but Foretravel installed the dip stick. I'm going to call JamesT and ask him what the deal is. How much are other members putting in their M11 engines? When I get it right, I'll mark my dipstick accordingly. Thanks.
jor
Recent oil change 36 qts including filter.
When FT fixed my drain plug they charged me for 38 qts.
FWIW, I run a gal low and keep an eye on it. No oil used at this reduced level.
I put 8 gals in mine with no issues to date. Scribe a mark on the dip stick where it stops using oil and see how it runs. Don't be worried with it being a little low. The engine bay will stay clean(r) if nothing else. pc
So far with the same engine we have 32, 36, 38 and 40 quarts. Yikes! I've been running like pc, at least a gallon low. Why are you doing that by the way? I would think running low would cause higher oil temps. What is the advantage? Anyone else?
Thanks.
jor
I recommend filling with the quantity stated by Cummins, and then marking the dipstick appropriately. There are too many opportunities for the dipstick to have been inaccurately calibrated over the years. I suspect many people actually operate with less than the full oil quantity specified by Cummins without any problems, but why take the chance?
I checked the Cummins documentation online and it appears as if the M-11 and ISM engines require 10 gallons in the sump and the filter prefilled. That's what I did at my last oil change. I just checked the oil level (after a 1500 mile trip) and the oil level is still about where it was when I changed it. There has been no oil escaping out any vent tubes. I believe (based on the Cummins documentation and my own experience) that 10 gallons in the sump plus the prefilled filled filter is the correct amount.
With the pan off and filled with 32 qts., right up to 40 qts., the pan is so large that the difference in the lube level is small in relation to the 10 gallon full level.
Why do I run less oil?
I don't have an engine that uses oil (which is the reason for the extra 2 gals of oil) & for whoever that builds the engine to cover having to deal with operators that are less than attentive.
I've operated diesel engines for decades and I check oil levels every time I go somewhere.
If you rarely go to the trouble of going through this procedure, by all means fill the sump.
It's your unit, treat it accordingly. Someone asked.. that's my response.. take it or ;>)
Back to the OP, if you have an engine that's using oil (blowing, etc., for whatever unknown reason, there is a good chance your unit does not like having that level of oil in the sump. Try not filling it so full.. and see what happens. No harm done.. pc
I check my oil level regularly and my engine doesn't use oil. However, I choose to follow the manufacturer's recommendations for two reasons:
1. I don't know more about the engine than does the manufacturer.
2. I like to operate with the recommended amount of oil for the same reason I have insurance: I hope I don't need to use it, but it sure is nice to have just in case. There is no "down side" other than a little expense, and there is a big "up side" when needed!
David, if you get a chance, crawl under there and note the numbers on your pan. When I told the Cummins Help line that I had an M11 he said, "You probably have a 38957. That's. a 9 gallon pan." I gave him all the numbers on the pan:
3895278
3895954
3895556
3895957
Anyhow, with the pan holding 9 and the filter another gallon, we're at the ten gallons you note in your post.
pc, thanks for the explanation re preferring to run at a level below noted requirement.
jor
Before I would let the oil get too low, remember there is no oil cooler and the sides of the oil pan help keep the oil temperature down. Most HD diesels have hollow piston crowns with oil squirted up into the crowns to cool the pistons and then draining back as well as the returning turbocharger oil adding to the oil temperature. Summer temperatures and steep grades add up to elevated oil temperature. Before shutting down, remember the oil temperature cools much more slowly than the coolant so important to fast idle for a while after the temp gauge has come down removing the possibility of the oil "coking" up in the turbo. Excess heat is the enemy of petroleum oil.
I don't let our Detroit drop much below the full mark and it never gets the toad dirty. While it take 5.5 gallons to change, I buy 7 gallons so I can top it off as necessary between changes.
If you do have a breather tube/hose, it's easy to make a heavy duty canister with the breather going into the top and the pipe at the bottom extending almost to the top of the canister and the inside filled with coarse steel wool with a quick drain at the bottom. This allows the engine to breathe while keeping the back and toad oil free. I have made a small version for aircraft and it made a huge difference keeping the bottom clean.
Pierce
The oil filter holds a lot of oil, but it doesn't hold 1.3 gallons. Therefore, if only 9 gallons are poured into the crankcase, the overall amount will be below that which Cummins specifies. I don't want to start out below what they state as the engine's capacity.
Cummins says the oil pan is a 9 gallon pan so I figure I've got 9 gallons plus the filter. I'm going to change the oil tomorrow. I intend to fill my filter, attach it and pour 9 gallons into the pan. I'm going to scribe my dip stick at that level. I'm taking off in a week or so (finally) so we'll see how it goes.
jor
Cummins say the total oil system capacity is 10.3 gallons. Does that statement from Cummins matter to you?
Actually, in reading your statement I was thinking you were saying 10 gallons with the filter. As I indicated above, I am getting the 9 gallon pan figure from the Cummins hotline. That's why I asked you to check your pan number as Cummins matched mine with the 9 gallon capacity.
jor
Cummins lists the oil system capacity of the M11 as 10.3 gallons. That's what I go by. The oil pan may be a "9 gallon" oil pan, but I still go by the listed oil system capacity. The "oil system" is composed of more than just the oil pan.
So thats why OF, PO filed a mark on the dipstick :facepalm:
There is more than one m11 pan as far as I know. Our coaches use the shorter one for more ground clearance is my understanding. Aluminum also instead of steel.
The large Foretravel book provided when our motorhome was new shows the M11 oil capacity as 43 quarts. I'm not sure where they got that figure since the documents I've seen from Cummins shows the M11 and ISM oil capacities as 10.3 gallons (39 liters).
The Cummins M11 document I have shows an engine with a large rear-sump pan. That pan may hold more than the aluminum pan that's on our motorhomes. According to Cummins, the pan on our motorhomes is a "9 gallon" pan. I also have seen that the oil pan in ISM engines used in MCI coaches appears to be the "9 gallon" pan. The oil filter I use is an LF3000, which is the large one, and I understand holds 0.8 gallon (3 liters) of oil.
Therefore, it would appear as if the oil capacity for the M11 engines in our Foretravels should be 9.8 gallons, with 9 gallons in the sump and 0.8 gallon in the filter.
I apologize for any confusing information I may have earlier presented.
Well, it doesn't take much to confuse me, so after seeing all the replies I went and checked my invoices for oil changes on my 02 ISM450.
Premier, here in Tucson totaled 35 quarts
FOT, totaled 30 quarts
Transwest (Washington), totaled 33 quarts
Hal Burns (Santa Fe) totaled 32 quarts
I always check stick after an oil change.. always right on the full mark.
SO, seems I am no help what so ever..
I did finally create a Quickserve account. It's easy to do and there's a lot of useful information there.
As far as I can tell, the LF3000 is still sufficient for the older engines, but the newer ones need the LF9070, which includes (among other things) a "venturi nozzle." The details for that filter can be found at http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/PD10012.pdf (http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/PD10012.pdf) My understanding is that the higher-technology LF9009 can also be used on the older engines for which the LF3000 was originally specified.
The LF3000 replaement is LF9009
The LF9070 has a shorter LF9080 version
Can not find list for a LF9007
We use a lot of Fleetguard Filters
I originally wrote "LF9007" and then later realized it should have been "LF9070" and then corrected my error. As far as I know there is no "LF 9007." Sorry!
The LF3000 appears to still be available; The LF9009 shows as being the same physical size but has their "venturi" technology for improved filtering.
Opening a 7 year old topic. I just did the engine and trans oil and filter change. When I got to 9 gal of engine oil the dipstick read full. With 10 gal. it read on the V of overfilled. I filed the correct full mark for the first time since I have owned the coach. This has been discussed many time it seems but I had missed it until today.
38 qts on my ISM11 including the filter. Specs say 36-38 qts. Always double check after running the engine.
Chuck,
With that much discrepancy in the dip stick you need to contact Cummins with your engine number. They will tell you the oil pan that your engine has and the correct amount of oil needed. I would bet your is like ours with the numbers you just posted as ours takes only 36 per Cummins.
Mike
Mike I will check with Cummins Mon. All the info I got showed 10.3 Gal. for the M11
Cummins QuickServe Online (https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/index.html)
If you enter your serial number I believe it will show you all the capacities for the different part number pans
Scott
Im on my second m11 and both have taken 9 gallons at the full mark
Keith
Just like Keith, I have had two M11s. Both took 39 quarts. Nine gallons in sump and add filter. I think all of our old Foretravel M11s are identical in this regard.
jor
In that case I am 1 qt. overfilled.
I found the oil pans but description doesn't specify capacity.
Might of been in my Cummins owners manual. I'll double check tomorrow
Scott
Check the part # on your oil pan that is on your coach.
I believe Foretravel changed the original pan for more ground clearance.
The number on my oil pan is 3895954 which when you look it up is 8 - 9 gal.
I would interpret that to 9 gal full and 8 gal min. which puts me back to being a quart high if the filter hold 3 qts. My NAPA Gold looks to hold more than 3 qts.
I agree. Trust Cummins specs WAY before you trust the aftermarket (NOT a Cummins part) dipstick.
And, next oil change, calibrate the engine oil dipstick (it is free): Below from an article I wrote more than a decade ago.
We continue to see questions about oil "consumption" and oil on radiators and toads on RV.net and other RV sites. It seems to be universal-- across all brands of diesel engines.
THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE IS AN OVERFILLED CRANKCASE. CALIBRATING THE ENGINE OIL DIP STICK TO ACHIEVE THE CORRECT OIL LEVEL IN THE PAN "FIXES" OVER 90% OF THESE PROBLEMS.
Step one if you "think" your DP has an oil consumption problem or you are seeing oil mist on your toad (or you just want to verify that yours is correct): CALIBRATE THE DIP STICK. Since the same engines/dip sticks are used in many different applications with different angles of installation, do not ASSUME that the dip stick is correctly marked.
Calibration costs $0. At the next oil change, drain oil, remove old filter (as usual).
Then install the drain plug and new oil filter and add the engine's correct oil capacity LESS THE NUMBER OF QUARTS you want between the "add" and "full" marks (let's say 2 quarts). So for a C7 with 19 quart capacity you would add 17 quarts. Run the engine a few minutes, shut off and wait until oil has descended into the pan (minimum 30 minutes). Pull the dip stick and use a file or dremel tool to mark the oil level "add". Add the remaining two quarts, let the oil settle in the pan, pull the dipstick and mark this the "full" mark.
In many/most cases, you will find that your engine "throws out" the access oil and then "consumption" settles down to next to nothing. Put in the correct amount and your "consumption" issues may go away.
I called Cummins on my 95 M11. That's where I got the 39 quart figure. I marked my dipstick at that level as the factory full level mark was not correct. Never had any indication of overfill.
jor
If you go back to the beginning of this thread 7 years ago you will see the numbers all over the place. Jor was the one who called Cummins and I was using his numbers when I marked my dipstick. I will still call on Monday with my pan numbers and see what I get. On a side note quite awhile back engine models were discussed and they went from M11 to M11 Celect and all replies were that mine was not a ISM. When I got the serial number of the engine last night my tag says ISM and the engine manufacture date is 1999 on my '99 coach.
Updating the 10 gallons of oil I added after oil change. I marked the level on the dipstick at the "V" in overfill. Now 3000 mi. later the oil is still at the "V" with no oil being slung out of the engine. I will use this mark from now on. My stick was marked full at one gallon low.