Our black water and gray water tanks are exposed to the elements. Our old Class C had furnace vent in the holding compartment but nothing on the GV.
Has anyone retrofitted enclosures/insulation/heat to their tanks on these old classics?
If so, what did you do, use, and how?
I am thinking about a remedy so we could go to a workkamping offer in North Texas. They do and did get snow and freezing temps a few times last winter so I would want to be prepared for occasional bouts of cold or snow.
Thanks.
I have that problem on my Born Free. There answer was to put antifreeze in the tanks but I still broke the pipe coming out of the black tank and had to replace that. There is no real way to protect them from the cold and guarantee it will work. I survived a few years then it broke. THe FT has no issue down to below 0 so far but my tanks are enclosed. I guess I am saying tank heaters that you attach did not work and will not work 100 percent. Enclosed tanks and heat will.
Nighthawk, our 88 we had the same setup as yours. We watched the weather and dumped when the temp dipped. Put some antifreeze after we dumped. Went thru 2 gallons. Worked last winter. ^.^d
A 1989 ORED has tanks that are exposed to the weather? They're not enclosed inside the insulated cargo bay with vents from the rear propane furnace like the 1991 U300 has? Is this because of the chassis frame rails? ...Sorry to ask questions within a question.
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RV Holding Tank Heater on Sale - PPL Motor Homes (http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-toilets-tanks/rv-holding-tank-heater.htm)
Scott, ours were completely open and were supported by a unistrut, no heat ???
Our gray water tank is between the frame rails. The black water tank is on the driver's side, outside the frame rail, and just in front of the duals--Scary if you have a tire blow on that side, seeing as how there is zero protection !!
The gray tank is supported on 1-1/2" angle iron and suspended from above by threaded rods. I don't recall the black tank suspension, but will have to crawl under the coach Tuesday if it isn't raining.
The dump valves compartment is just forward of the black water tank. The black tank valve piping and valve go forward and meet the gray water tank valve coming from the pass side. Combined exit is just short of the compartment door and, with a 90 deg clear elbow, exits down to the third valve.
The dump compartment also has the inverter mounted on the ceiling.
I have been thinking about enclosing the tanks and then running the ducting that runs along the driver's side to the bathroom and prior to that, right below the frig., as the kitchen gets plenty of heat anyway.
I am guessing that the black tank is in front of duals but covered by a thick layer of foam that actually forms part of the shape of the wheel well, as is on the 93 ORED that we owned many years ago. I had a crack in the bottom of tank so that I had to remove it and weld it with ABS rods. When I removed it (supported on an angle iron and held up as you say by threaded rods) I found an electric pad under it and this was connected to a relay as was all the underfloor heating. If it were me I would cut all the foam out and remove tank (or slacken rods to insert one of these low wattage pads under it or tape one to the side and refoam it in place). It is easy to take this foam off and redo, then spray with some of that Black rubber underbody seal. Use a 12v pad and I think you will be fine.
JohnH
I have seen heating pads installed under the tanks on oreds.
Battery heaters would help the amps as temp drops.
I have found that just putting a heat tape on the drain piping to both tanks does the job. If the water in the tank does freeze, it won't break anything because it is an open tank and the frozen water can expand. The heat tape on the piping also keeps the valves from being frozen stuck and possibly breaking. A gallon of antifreeze in each tank after discharge is added insurance. I have also used a fan heater on the piping and valves and that worked well. A little over-kill though! As for me this winter, It's drive further south. Have a great day ---- Fritz
Everyone is talking antifreeze and its 81F at 6:30 here. Ran the coach because it has been a month and had the air conditioners on.
On our past Foretravel and now in the Prevost, we removed all the tanks and wrapped the tanks in electric heater blankets. In addition, we also have covered all exposed piping leading to the tanks. This heating works on 110 volts. Since we are in Alaska at times in the winter months for work, we needed to ensure the coach is well equipped to handle the weather. We have never had a freezing issue in eight years. This has worked and we have been in weather -20+ temperatures. Needless to say that when temps are this low, starting an engine without being on a pre heater and a thermal blanket thrown on top to keep the warmth in, is not possible. We probably have had a Foretravel in the coldest weather in the history of this company.
The 93 I mentioned earlier was built for a couple who lived in Banff Alberta and all water lines had metal clad heating tape and all under belly was insulated with a dropped (6'") metal & insulated framework. Foretravel made one only and this was it. James T told me at the time I owned it that they lost money on it as did not price the extra work needed correctly.
Built for continude sub freezing weather.
JohnH
By accident we took a 88 ORED as-is into colorado -30 weather. Stupid. Froze everything including all the new batteries. You prepared. No fair.
Still was exciting.
Unicoach not as much of a problem. Anyone done serious cold in an aquahot unicoach?
I agree. ran the rear air this afternoon at silver strand beach in coronado, ca. 78 on the sand. No wind.
Our dump valves--gray and black--are in the same compartment as the inverter and the two PVC tubes that stick down and out toward the center of the coach. the third valve and the 90 degree elbow are down thru an opening in the compartment floor. Lots of openings for cold air to get in, but I do use a thermostatically controlled electric space heater in the compartment to keep the valves from freezing. No foam or insulation anywhere on either tank so anything would help.
I have a little experience with heat pads and electrical tapes. Problem with them is when they fail you don't know until it is too late. I am a bit of a "Rube Goldberg" so always contemplating ways of doing things that will accomplish my goal and yet minimize any supervision. Ducted heat from the front furnace and enclosing the tanks should do the job.
Good points. Seen the blankets fail also. Availability of inexpensive harbor freight infrared heat guns sure make troubleshooting things heat related easier. $27 tool
Last winter we had our 03 u320 in Nebraska for 3 months and it got to -15 with a wind at times of 60 mph and the aqua hot did its thing with no problems whatever.
Yes, but OP Nighthawk has a 1989 GV ORED. No AquaHot, exposed tanks.
On my 1990 U300 there's a 110 outlet in the bay where all tanks are. I just plug in a small ceramic heater, set on 45 degrees, all good.
My tanks aren't in a bay. They are behind or back of the bays. The Valterra dump valves are in a bay, along with the Parallax power supply converter/battery charger, a 120 V outlet on the ceiling of the bay, an electric space heater, thermostatically controlled, and two tubes of PVC that contain the drain hoses.
So the ORED does not have bays. The tanks are strapped to the frame rails ^.^d
The tanks are fastened very securely to metal framework hanging from frame. Not the best way but heck most TT etc have the same setup if I am not mistaken and they work fine!
Johnh
It was referred to as saddle bagging in the industry
Sorry to be so stoopid, but is it really that unusual to have insulated tanks in a heated compartment on a high end motor coach? Don't other manufacturers besides Foretravel equip their coaches for cold weather? My U300 is the only coach I've ever owned and last winter was the first cold weather I've been in with it. I saw a bunch of travel trailers freeze their valves and pipes but I didn't have any trouble. I was kind of shocked to see a shiny new Airstream with frozen pipes / valves and exposed tanks. Those are the most expensive travel trailers you can buy aren't they?
A travel trailer is nowhere near as expensive as a FT. I have a great class C too but it has exposed tanks as well. I wish it did not but there is just no real estate for the tanks to be enclosed.
"Why would you want to go where it's cold?" That's what the SOB's are told
I don't want to go where it's cold, but unless you were in Florida last winter you were probably where it's cold! hahaha
Heck it snowed in Nac when I was there in January.
Not being able to go somewhere versus not wanting to makes non insulated SOB's worth less IMO
The shocking thing I learned here on this thread is that even some Foretravels don't have insulated tanks. Is that really normal on a high priced coach? Do you need at least a U280 for cold weather camping?
Yes. No insulated tankages until the late 80's. Bird had heaters in the tank walls.
I'm adding insulated tanks to the growing list of things I'm sooo glad I accidentally stumbled into when I purchased my coach... How come nobody on this forum ever mentioned this when I was shopping around for my coach? It would have greatly influenced my decision.
If you spray your tanks with 2 inches urethane foam they will not freeze and also run a heater hose from the engine
and rap it around your valves before you spray you will be able to open the valves after running the engine for 15 min
Spraying the hole underside of your coach is a good idea as it will keep the floor of the coach warm. I have had tanks
not freeze at 30 below F.
If I place a small Ceramic Heater in the basement of my 280 will that suffice for low 30's to mid 20's? We are doing extensive remodeling and adding on to our home and will have to stay in the coach for a couple weeks in November. Would rather not have to winterize until afterwards if I can avoid it. Maybe set front furnace on 60 in addition to ceramic in the basement? first motor home first winter ::)
Hope this isn't too blatant of a hi jacking!
Last winter we used electric heaters from the park power, rather than burn propane on below freezing days and nights down to 10 degrees. We used 1, 200 watt heater in each of the waterheater/pump bay, and on the wet bay, on thermo cubes. The remote wireless thermometers showed the temps always in the range of the thermo cubes (38-45) limits. I added cords to all the cubes to lay on the bottom of the bays, and located the remotes higher in the bay areas. We were comfortable with two ceramic space heaters in the coach, one in the bath, one in the saloon. Of course you can run the correct propane furnace that ducts to the bays and be safe as well.
We use Lasko 200 watt Personal Heaters
- Walmart (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lasko-Electric-My-Heat-Personal-Heater-100/1650322) 2 in our water bays, two on each side. They work much better than higher wattage heaters and our old 100 watt light bulbs. We do monitor the bay temps with wireless thermometers. And on very cold days put a large piece of Reflectix under bay doors with sides tucked in to preserve the heat.
Are you using it like a storm window or blanket to give additional insulation to the bay doors?
Thanks,
Trent
Our doors including the ORED have inslulating qualities. They are sealed fiberglas with air between. ^.^d
Uni coaches and unihomes have floors that are insulated.
If its only getting into the 20s and you have all of the openings sealed off where cold air could get in (mainly the cord/hose slot) I wouldn't even bother doing anything. The bays are pretty well insulated and won't freeze at that temperature. Maybe turn on the 12 volt light in the bay if you feel you need to.
I've gone to the same Lasko My Heat "200" watt heaters that Barry uses along with these programmable outlet thermostats to keep the bays at 55 degrees.
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The Lasko heaters only register at 100 watts each on my inverters display but work quite well to heat the small space in the water bays. I was originally going to build brackets and permanently mount them to the walls but ended up just velcroing them to the floor temporarily until I get around to it. They don't have a tip sensor to shut them off if they fall over.
A 100watt heater...or a 100 watt incandescent light bulb. Pretty much the same thing!
I used 100w light bulbs last winter and they worked. However, these little heaters circulate the heat much better and are just much more effective than the light bulbs. It really isn't even close in real world usage. Also, I was constantly worrying about the light bulbs burning out when it was -15F.
Every bulb no matter how protected is a fire hazard as the bulb surface is VERY hot. We used 4 bulbs for years but Lasko heater do not get hot and have a blower to move air about, much better than a bulb.
Our Reflectix is the width and height of the space behind the bay door PLUS about 6" wider and taller. We bend in the sides which expand back to touch the insides. The Reflectix is about an inch or so away from the inside of the compartment door. The idea is to hold in the heat better than the door seal does.