Foretravel Owners' Forum

Escapees RV Club e-mail received today:


Diesel Fueling in Arizona
Message from Jim Koca, Advocacy Director (Escapees RV Club):

 Arizona fuel-tax rates are different from what we may be used to while traveling throughout the United States. This fuel law has been on the books for several years. The law states:

The Arizona tax on gasoline (motor vehicle fuel) is 18 cents per gallon. Use fuel (diesel) is taxed at two rates in Arizona.

-If the use fuel is used in the propulsion of a use class motor vehicle on a highway in this state, the tax rate is 26 cents for each gallon.

-A "use class motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle that uses use fuel on a highway in this state and that is a road tractor, truck tractor, truck or passenger carrying vehicle having a declared gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds or having more than two axles.

I talked to the Revenue & Fuel Tax Administration Fuel Tax Manager in Phoenix, Az, and asked for the definition of the "passenger carrying vehicle" and he stated that would include a motor home. What this means is those who have a vehicle that has three or more axles or a declared gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001+ lbs are required to use the truck lanes and pay the higher fuel tax. The regular diesel tax is 18 cents. Filling the RV at the regular pumps will subject you to a citation with a steep fine. Arizona has a Fuel Tax Evasion Unit that monitors the filling of vehicles at fuel stations.

Escapees feel that this information should be sent out to all of the members that travel through Arizona.
http://www.escapees.com/clubnewsarchive/viewarchived.aspx?Club_News_Number=10485 (http://www.escapees.com/clubnewsarchive/viewarchived.aspx?Club_News_Number=10485)

Barry, this is great - not the news the opportunity to get involved.

What should we do, call write email? ::)

The post is a quote from an Escapees Club memo (I've added formatting to B&C's post so the author is  more obvious), so that would be the place to start. 

We can do a couple of things:

A letter writing campaign, avoid the state altogether or due outside the state. I believe FT fuel tanks are large enough to get one through the state.

Maybe a large lose in revenue from the RV population would wake them up.

IMHO

Norm

How kind of the State of Arizona.  Instead of driving to a nearby filling station, we have to drive to the highway, find a truck stop, and track all the spilled diesel into our coaches. Just so they can collect more tax there instead of at the nearby station.

Guess they want the rvs to go elsewhere.

Norm has the right idea. My fuel range is 1440 miles and Arizona is just 300 X 400 miles
 No need for that state to get a penny of fuel tax from me.

Besides, I can get cheaper gas in Texas and meet more Foretravels there too.

That means you cannot fill at Walmart at the 18 cent tax.  They should be outraged. Being dumb from Texas may not work but if in Arizona /// may try to use it anyway. DAN

I just hope they post this visibly at non-truck stations better than they did in the past.

a couple of years ago I filled the coach at a supermarket in Bullhead City. The only sign was some nonsense about no trucks, and it was hidden behind the counter. I only saw it because I spent a lot of time getting my out of state credit card to work.

The reason it is cheaper is because of the tax and that the truck stops know they have a captive audience.  Also, on RV.Net a MH owner got a 1000 dollar ticket for using the RV lanes at Flying J.

I will pretend I never saw this...We have a winter home in AZ and almost always fuel up locally. 

Just spent some time with Gas Buddy.  Almost no difference in pricing between local stores and  Love's web sites that I could tell. We live in Tucson and have no truck stops close by so probably the tax police aren't around..I hope..

This is a popular subject and here are some more links on the topic:

With more Googling & reading I see many states have fuel taxes higher than AZ truck rates. May even be to our advantage to fill up at AZ truck pump prices if traveling west.

Found several stories of AZ police enforcement fines. One posting that said RVs are a gray area, but I don't trust that anymore.

I think we are hearing about an old law that we need to know about, and probably good that Escapees put to print. Eight cents a gallon is $8 on a 100 gallon fill, nothing to break us. The issue that hurts many is that AZ prevents us from using lower cost diesel at Walmart, grocery stores, Costco, Sam's, etc which can be more convenient and less expensive.

Our style for many years is to first look at Pilot/Flying J truck pumps (nice to get pump-start, cash price using a credit card and, get 3 cents off), then to Love's, then to other truck diesel pumps. I am not comfortable filling at an island that has gasoline and diesel as some of our most technical friends have accidently pumped gasoline. We like not having to maneuver among autos that don't realize how long and wide we are. But we never realized we would be illegal in AZ if we did not use truck pumps. I remember years ago getting some discount if we told them we were an RV, even though we filled at truck pump.
Map: State Gasoline Tax Rates | Tax Foundation (http://taxfoundation.org/blog/map-state-gasoline-tax-rates)

A gasoline tax map that explains a lot | ExxonMobil's Perspectives Blog (http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2014/02/07/this-gasoline-tax-map-expla) ins-a-lot/
Police To Enforce Fuel Taxation In Arizona - Type A motorhomes - FMCA Motorhome (http://community.fmca.com/topic/7428-police-to-enforce-fuel-taxation-in-ariz) ona/
Arizona Diesel Fuel for Rigs over 26,000lbs (http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=50445.0)

00 fine for fueling at the wrong pump - HDT - Escapees Discussion Forum (http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=113059)

Does this tax applies to fuel sold on Indian reservations?  I haven't had any bad fuel from an Indian reservation, in fact all of the stations were clean and well maintained.  Just a thought.

I wonder if I broke the law when I filled at a Flying J RV pump in Arizona about two years ago when we first purchased our Foretravel. I saw no signs and I had no idea I might be subject to a huge fine!

This is one of my "for what it's worth" posts. I live in NM and go to Mexico and California through Arizona a lot. I mean a lot. Usually I always filled up in Arizona but now it is cheaper in NM so it's a roll of the die. In Arizona I use the truck pumps 95% of the time. When I go in to pay I tell them it is a motorhome and they discount off the price, 8 cents a gallon. 5% of the time I use the auto pumps which are slow but already have the road tax discounted. Since 2000 when I bought my first diesel, I have NEVER had any problem at the pumps, with the station or management, truckers, police or anybody else.

I don't know any other diesel drivers who have, either. This is just my personal opinion and I'm still filling up at the truck pumps. I would think that if it was in fact a problem, the station owners would not allow it.

I did find out, however, it is illegal to tow doubles through Arizona with a motorhome even WITH a CDL. Long story.

One more discussion:

Arizona DOT fines RV owners for using wrong pump | RV Daily Report | Breaking RV (http://rvdailyreport.com/owner/arizona-dot-fines-rv-owners-for-using-wrong-pump/)

I don't know who is correct on this issue but someone in another RV forum posted the following link to a letter supposedly from the AZ Revenue and Fuel Tax Administration concerning this issue:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50497884/AZ%20Motor%20Home%20Diesel%20Tax%20Rate.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50497884/AZ%20Motor%20Home%20Diesel%20Tax%20Rate.pdf)

I hope that my post of this doesn't violate any rules.

Great post Bama. And at the car fuel lanes, the diesel is already discounted the 8 cents, therefore you can fuel up either side. The log they ask for is merely you motor home license plate number. But you have to TELL them it is a motorhome if you fill from the truck pumps. Happy motoring. Go Ole Miss!

Thanks for the letter posting Royce.

We want to believe what we wish was fact.  Hard to know who is interpreting the written law correctly.

I just tried to read the law and don't see where the letter says RVs are exempt.  Quoted regs are attached.

It just seems one person at AZ DOT says we are not exempt and another says we are, assuming the letter is real.  And from what others have posted, law enforcement says we are not covered and here is a $1,000 fine to prove they are correct, even though loss to the state was $8 on 100 gallons fill.

Wish your LEO experience could shed some facts, Twig.

If a "log" procedure exists for refunding exempt vehicles using the "truck" pumps, then it seems to me that RVs would be exempt.

Here is another link to an RV Daily article that is dated October 15th; one day after the one Barry posted above.
http://rvdailyreport.com/owner/arizona-clarifies-diesel-fuel-tax-for-rv-use/ (http://rvdailyreport.com/owner/arizona-clarifies-diesel-fuel-tax-for-rv-use/)
Dick

 Boy talk of government 'screw ups' down in Arizona, such a simple thing should not be so diversant.
 This may have a larger hit on AZ in as much as some may say "to hell with stopping for a night etc" while going thru State and have a ripple down effect on local business', way more than the extra few cents are involved.
 We are used to getting taxed high on everything here in Canada and to us those 8 cents mean nothing as your fuel is so cheap to begin with. I do understand though the mess this could cause with enforcement though.
JohnH

Just as info:

AR  is Arkansas
AK  is Alaska
AZ  is Arizona

I know, nit picky but since I no longer have a FT I can spend my time being annoying. :) :)

Gary B

And CA is California,  unless everyone knows you are from Canada.

Looks like RV's now get the lowest cost fuel in AZ  and all is well again. . .
  (that is until ill-informed LEO get involved)

http://www.escapees.com/clubnewsarchive/viewarchived.aspx?Club_News_Number=10487 (http://www.escapees.com/clubnewsarchive/viewarchived.aspx?Club_News_Number=10487)

Arizona Fuel Tax Law - Part 2 - The Clarification
Message from Jim Koca, Advocacy Director
Escapees RV Club takes its advocacy very seriously. When we work on an issue, we always seek verification. In this case, it appears that the information that we received from the Arizona Revenue and Fuel Tax Administration in September 2014 was incomplete at best.

Since our news bulletin dated October 14, 2014, the Arizona fuel tax issue has blasted across the RV community and social media sites. These regulations need to be scrutinized and clarifications made. If they were not so convoluted, we would not have been misinformed, RVers would not have been incorrectly cited, stickers on fuel pumps would not be misleading, and the RVing public would immediately know which pump to use when fueling in Arizona.

At this point, the best advice we can offer is a quote from Ryan Harding with the Arizona Department of Transportation:

Arizona does have a dual-tiered diesel tax system. The issue of which tax tier one fits into comes down to whether you are using your vehicle for commercial purposes or personal leisure.
RV owners who are using their RVs for personal pleasure can fill up with diesel fuel that is taxed at $0.18 per gallon. As long as it's being used for personal use, weight limits do not apply.

If the RV is being used for commercial use or the furthering of a business and weighs more than 26,000 pounds, then the driver must fill up with diesel fuel taxed at $0.26 per gallon. Any situation where the RV is being used to help an individual or a business make money can be defined as commercial use. Examples of this include, but are not limited to, an RV that is registered to a business, such as an LLC, or a musical group using an RV to travel to venues to play for money.

So, to reiterate, the 26,000 pound weight limit only applies if the RV is being used to help further a business or commercial enterprise.
All diesel pumps in Arizona have ADOT warning labels which direct the consumer on the specific tax rate at that pump and legal requirements for using the lower taxed fuel.

If the RV owner fills up at diesel pumps taxed at the higher rate, but they qualify for the lower tax rate, they can contact the gas retailer and request an $0.08 per gallon refund.

The fine for fuel tax evasion in Arizona is $1,000 or $10 per gallon pumped, whichever is greater.

Thanks,
Ryan Harding
Arizona Department of Transportation
Office of Public Information
602.712.8111 (office)
news@azdot.gov (media)
azdot.gov


I would like to thank Greg Gerber with RV Daily Report for furnishing the above information.

In summary, the information that I received in September from the Arizona Revenue and Fuel Tax Administration office was not entirely correct. Non-commercial motor homes and 5th -wheels used for personal leisure are exempt from the higher fuel tax. In the meantime, we will continue to push for cleaner and clearer policies so that the general RVing public understands what they should be doing to meet the laws of Arizona.

I hope this has clarified any problems with the Arizona fuel tax laws. If for some reason you fill up at the $.26 fuel tax pumps, be sure to go back inside and request your refund of the $.08 per gallon.

So, if you own your RV in your name, and just travel with the other half, you are unlikely to have a problem--provided you don't say you use it to sleep in for working on the road, etc.

If you have your RV registered as an LLC, even if for private use, you may have a difficult time proving your point.

At least, that's how I read it.

Good info Barry!

Who wants to be first to see if the courts and cops accept the letter as law or opinion?

 I have printed it out just in case on our way thru south I need fuel.
JohnH

Gee, I guess buying the 22,500 GVW U225 was an even better idea than I thought. :P

Craig

Very good idea.  The signs at Loves at Exit 9, as well as the Smiths that sells diesel (Flying J trucks) here in Lake Havasu, are VERY clear that if you weigh 26,001 plus, and use them, you are subject to UP TO A $1000 fine per gallon...  I would want to have it on AZDOT letterhead with me.

Is this "Tag, you're it?"

Speaking of fuel prices (not in AZ), a funny thing happened on the way to the casino. . .

I-44, exit 1, then short distance east, in Oklahoma a few miles north of Wichita Falls there is a new Comanche Red River Travel Plaza with half dozen gasoline pumps in front and another half dozen diesel truck pumps in the rear (and a couple of dozen slot machines inside). They also do a big tobacco business.

$2.83 for unleaded and $3.18 for diesel, which is the lowest fuel costs we have seen this year. So not only is their pump prices low, today they are running a Friday night special between 4pm and 6:30pm, reducing gasoline and diesel prices by $0.12, bring diesel down to $3.06.

Right place, right time.  You must be living right....

I keep this handy when filling up at the FlyJ/Pilot RV lane, just in case......

In case of what may I ask. If you fuel at road diesel pumps what's the problem???

I guess the problem I encountered was the big sticker for a $10,000 fine for a vehicle over 26k on the rv pump. So I went to the big rig pumps and had to prepay, but big nozzle wouldn't fit my 89 coach, so back inside to find out what to do to get fuel,  the clueless clerk sent me back to the rv pump, because no one is looking. I'm guessing the ignorance of the cash register jockey, and the later legal clarification may have been in my favor.

Well the difference is if you fill up at a truck stop and want to use the diesel fuel card for discount you are paying the higher tax rate. But, you cannot use the fuel card at regular pumps so you must figure out which is the best method. I have a letter from ADOT that I can use to show the attendant the rules of law just like above post. As we are from Canada the fuel is a lot cheaper than we pay up here so I have not been worrying about it.
If you are not using the diesel fuel card you can fill up at the auto pumps as we fall into the ruling of a non commercial vehicle of 26k weight plus
JohnH

Search old threads. The 26,000 lbs is not intended for motorhomes. There was a post with a quote from some official explaining it was for commercial vehicles.

That is exactly what I was talking about and that is the letter I have in the coach
JohnH

The document posted by Wagon Wheel has the info. A RV/motor home is an exempt use fuel tax vehicle and if you use the use tax (Commercial) pump. You can request a refund from the clerk for the .08 cents per gallon.
I guess one needs to figure out if parking and having to go in and deal with waiting in line and a clueless clerk is worth $8 for a 100 gallon purchase.  For me, It wouldn't be a holiday cancelling loss and I haven't really needed to fill in Az all that often. So I guess I'll just consider it a donation to the cause for all the cool places we can camp at and see in Az.