Foretravel Owners' Forum

Got in last night, plugged into shore power, all was well, microwave, TV & electrical outlets all good, plugged in computer, phone, nothing.  Then noticed the microwave & TV were out.....threw all the switches under the bed skirt, (2 fuse boxes) and nothing.  Re-set the red button on the bathroom socket, nothing.  It doesn't click though like it's blown. Are there any other outlets with a red re-set button or what else can I try?  At least I can make coffee and get the computer & stuff charged up in the bed room but it's not optimal.  :D 

If you have an inverter, check the two breakers on the unit itself. Actually, just turn the breakers both off and back on.

Thanks Brett, the red & green buttons are stationary (won't budge) on the inverter, so am not sure how to turn them off & on again.  I threw the inverter power switch on (it normally stays in the off position) then off again, got nothing.  AC volts at 120, DC volts at 14.0. 

There may be another GFCI (red button) outlet above the microwave in the upper cabinet. It is for the microwave but also controls several other outlets. If you have one like my 1993, my bet is that it has tripped.

Let us know the outcome of your search.

If the plugs in the bedroom work it looks like power through the roll over relay in the inverter is working and sending power to the secondary power panel for distribution to the coach wall plugs.
So one of those circuits would be power to the GFI in the bathroom which would pass power to the plugs in the front of the coach.
Try to trip and then reset that bathroom GFI.
You may have to push the reset button in pretty far to reset.
JD

Kent, no GFI over microwave...John, I tried to get the black & red buttons to budge, no go, they are stuck in there tight.  Used a spoon...no go. Thanks guys...anymore outlets around? Why would the black & red be so firmly stuck?  Can't get either to budge.

The later coach's have be GFI in the bath area near sink, take a look.

Sounds like you may need a new GFI.

My mistake, just checked again (with a fork!) & the red button does recede into the outlet, the black one is stuck solid.

If your GFI outlet is not tripped, press the test button and if notbing happens then there is no power to that outlet, that would point to the inverter not passing the AC.

Roland

Yes thanks to all of you, I still can't find the problem with my electrical outlets in the forward part of the coach (only ones that work are the two under the bed) so next week I'll go back over & check this....by service bay, do you mean the one where the water faucets/hook ups are? That socket doesn't work either, I imagine all of these are connected.  Have tried everything else including tripping the two 35'ers in the generator case.  Is the panel easy to pry off?  Just had all my batteries load tested at FOT so that's not the issue.

Miz D,

The little breaker that is pictured is in the bay where you hook up your electric, sewer, water. (to old timers your service bay)  It has nothing to do with your 120VAC system. It handles 12VDC loads like the small fuse panel on the foot of the bed. If you have print #B-2126 (it should be in your black 3 ring binder) it shows it on the top right corner of the print.

Pamela & Mike

Sorry. Did you start with GFI?

Yes GFI in the bathroom was the 1st thing I checked, also both panel boxes under the bed, generator case switches....I think the GFI needs replacing, it doesn't feel normal, both red & black buttons not tripping when tested.  Not gonna be over there til next week & will get a new GFI on the way.  Thanks everyone. :) 

That's your problem I would bet

That is an indication that the GFI is not getting 12OVAC. If it is broken and it has 12P VAC it will trip and will be unresettable. Easy to check with a voltmeter, just a couple screws and you can pull it out and measure the voltage at the terminals in the rear. A real witch to get it back in though, like stuffing 5# of crap in a 2# container. I had the same thing happen a while back, wasn't the GFI but can't remember what it was.

Roland

Dani,

Do you have the electrical schematics for your coach?

Are the outlets that work fed from the secondary breaker box (the one with the inverter-powered circuits) or are they off the primary (just shore powered)?

Not sure if yours is anything like our '03, but in ours, there's a secondary transfer switch that has inputs of inverter and shore power.  Perhaps yours has failed either in the inverter position (in which case if your inverter is working, when you unplug from shore and turn the inverter on you should get power) or in some intermediary position where it's not passing anything.

Michelle, thanks, I do have the diagrams that James T gave me in Nac, suppose they're on that, they're in the coach & I'll get back over there next week & get some help, in the meantime, the GFI in the bathroom is not tripping as it should so I'll pick one of those up on the way.  Think maybe it's down to that outlet. And the items that don't work are the one that are located in the second box to the right of the first one under the bed: TV, microwave, & all outlets in the forward of the coach. 

Dani,

The microwave should be on a different circuit (all by itself) than the other items.  If the GCFI is bad, then usually just the items on that (GCFI) circuit will not be powered.  So the if it's the GCFI, the microwave should still work.

If I understand correctly, all things powered by the main box are working and all things powered by the second box are not.

If that's correct, it sounds like your second box is not receiving any power.  It is likely fed by a transfer switch located nearby, with inputs being your main box and your inverter (look for a box in the foot of the bed with 2 big wires coming in and one going out to the second breaker box).  If you have a means of checking the output voltage of the transfer switch, both running off shore power and unplugging and running off the inverter, that may help you figure more out. 

Now, the shore power feed for this transfer switch will be from one leg of your 50 amp power.  Here's where you'll want to make sure you don't have a situation like 1 leg of the power being down.  To verify, look at the schematics and see what else in the main box is powered from the same leg as the aux box.  If those things are working, then look more closely at the transfer switch.  If they are also not working, then look at that leg of your 50 amp.

Here's our diagram of the overall scheme, which may be similar to yours.  I've circled the transfer switch I'm talking about


Here is what the circuits look like in our 2003; I've highlighted for our coach which items are on Leg 2 of the 50 AMP to show you how to decipher the drawing for your coach (on the right side of this picture, see where the circles are below Leg 2

Michelle, thanks so much for this, am going to get back over there next week & see exactly what the situation is, I can't remember now what's in the 1st box but seems like all the lights, etc. which all work, but the outlets & microwave & TV are 'out' up front, the only outlets that work are the 2 under the bed.  Everything else is out as far as sockets/outlets.  Thank goodness I had those or I'd have had no way for anything to be charged up (no phone, no computer, no coffee pot) while "camped out" for 4 days during my recent little adventure!  Am  going to call a friend over there for help with this.  Sure appreciate the feedback.

Dani,

When all this is over, you will have learned a bunch about your coach's 120 V system ^.^d  That's how most of us have learned about our coaches - OJT/solving actual problems.

Yeh, between the batteries, fuel pump, hydraulics & electrical stuff (all in the past 10 days!) I'd say my OJT is cranked up on "high".....but it sure is fun (after the fact!) learning about all the systems on the old girl.... :D 

Miz Dani -

Michelle has held my hand on numerous occasions. 

Do you own a Volt Meter?  I did not know how to use one until we suffered a similar situation about a year ago and learned how to use it by watching Utube.  It turned out one of our transfer switches, the one under the bed, needed to be replaced.  It is now one of my best friends.  You can use the volt meter to determin if voltage is running through cables/wires, how many volts are in the wires, if your circuit is interrupted and a bunch of other stuff.  You can follow the power from your pedestal connection all the way to your outlets.  It's not always easy or fun but doable. 

Of-course - if you know this stuff I apologize for my comments.

As Michelle said, you are going to learn alot about your 120VAC and unfortunately OJT seems to be the way most of us learn how our coach's systems work.

Hang in there and continue to ask you questions.  Take photos and share here.  Many wise and knowledgeable folks here and are willing to assist you in your adventure.  :D

Miz D,

Another thought if you find out that your problem is the transfer switch has burnt the relay up or just the contacts they can be replaced. If your coach still has the ATS 100 here is what you are looking for. If you aren't electrical minded this info may help your electrician and save you a $.

Replacing a Transfer Relay (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/replacing_a_transfer_relay.html)

Here is info on just the contacts if it is just them, these fit our '97 ATS 100, yours may be different so check part compatibility.

http://www.electricalcontactkits.com/contact_kits.asp?Eck=FN75BE42&Ref=furnas (http://www.electricalcontactkits.com/contact_kits.asp?Eck=FN75BE42&Ref=furnas)

Pamela & Mike

Roland  ----  Maybe it was a broken wire, or at least a loose one,  from cramming  that two pound container with five pounds of wire and stuff !!  Have a great day  ----  Fritz

Not yet knowing how the FT is wired...how about the transfer switch in the inverter, assuming that it is a Prosine or similar.

Gee that is a  lot of great info, yes Scott I do have a volt meter, (thank you Gary B) and Pamela & Mike, what a lot of great info there for tackling this problem, all in living color!  I will have a friend or a professional help me with looking at this it as it's a bit more than I feel I can handle on my own.  Dave, thanks for your tip, not sure what's under there, we shall see in the next week or so when I go back over there.  Appreciate you all so much. :)

Roland, thanks for this little tip, I do have a voltmeter (a recent gift from Gary B) & this is the 1st thing I'm gonna check when I get back over there.  Hopefully this is it 'cause this seems to be the easiest solution for the problem, which means it'll likely be something else much more complicated....but it's a good place to start! 

Miz D

Attached is a table (A-2700-03 sheets 1 and 2) from my Black Book depicting  some of the electrical 110 circuits.

Look at the first one - sheet 2/2.  Note: These are the only circuits that the Inverter feeds when on.
The small diagram in the upper right tells us how one of the (potentially) 50 amp  feeding into the house breaker box is distributed.
 o  Circuit  #1 obviously is working because you are getting power to the bedside plugs.
    This suggests to me that the Inverter/Converter is not the problem
    Also that you are getting power to the sub-panel breaker box.

 o  Do any of the outlets in the non-GFI group at the bottom of the circuit #5 list work (the outside or the plugs in the underneath) work?
    You can see from the table which outlets are protected by the GFI and which are not.

 o  Are you sure the breakers for circuits #2 and#5 in the small breaker box under the bed are not tripped?

You'll find/fix it soon.

                       ............. Reposted from other topic..............
Miz D

Attached is a table (A-2700-03 sheets 1 and 2) from my Black Book depicting  some of the electrical 110 circuits.

Look at the first one - sheet 2/2.  Note: These are the only circuits that the Inverter feeds when on.
The small diagram in the upper right tells us how one of the (potentially) 50 amp  feeding into the house breaker box is distributed.
 o  Circuit  #1 obviously is working because you are getting power to the bedside plugs.
    This suggests to me that the Inverter/Converter is not the problem
    Also that you are getting power to the sub-panel breaker box.

 o  Do any of the outlets in the non-GFI group at the bottom of the circuit #5 list work (the outside or the plugs in the underneath) work?
    You can see from the table which outlets are protected by the GFI and which are not.

 o  Are you sure the breakers for circuits #2 and#5 in the small breaker box under the bed are not tripped?

You'll find/fix it soon.

Elliot, am not in the coach right now, (keep her 70 miles from me) so it's a bit harder to troubleshoot, but thanks for this...great info though....and no, the plugs under the coach don't work either, I've tripped & re-set all the fuses in both boxes under the bed a few times, the GFI plug seems to be dead or not tripping as it shoud, nothing happens when I try.  The weird thing is when I first connected power everything was working then I plugged the computer & phone (in the 'under the table' plug) didn't work then I noticed nothing was working. 

Hey, just a thought try turning off the breakers all of them, main first then one by one turn them back on. This worked for me in the past ^.^d

I know it shouldn't matter but the DW has done it to save the day, Let it rest a little.

Miz:  When I had my 270 I had the same issue.  I had the GFI switch on the drivers side under the sink in the bath room thrown.  Pushed the button back on and everything worked.  I would start there. DAN

UNDER the sink???  :o  Holy cow....never looked at it from that angle.

John, Cheryl, you mean all of the breakers at once or one by one?  I have done it one by one but not all at once.

The posts from the 12V question topic that were regarding Dani's 120 Vac issue have all been moved to this thread. 

Carry on ;)

if buttons not working right on GFI - 75% chance things will work when you replace GFI - start there - if intimidated get handyman or electrician to do it for you

Dani,
It sure sounds like you have the original GFCI Breaker in the bathroom outlet (Red = Test, Green = Reset).  At 16 or 17 years of age, I'm with Tim and several others that from all that you have told us, including your initial post, the symptoms point to the GFCI outlet being defective. 


Like Tim, I'd put the probability at 75%, maybe even as high as 95% that the GFCI is your problem.  Usually, 5 to 8 years is a good service lifetime for a GFCI outlet in an RV.  They are designed to be very sensitive to a small fault current and therefore they are much more fragile to voltage transient damage.
 
It's an easy fix if you have electrical experience, otherwise, as Tim noted, have someone try replacing the GFCI for you.  If you do replace it, use one that has the front panel LED power indicator.  They are much  easier to just glance at and see whether the outlet has been tripped or not.  The LED will be on, until it is tripped.  If it is out, push reset.  If the LED flashes, but won't reset, you have a faulty load plugged in somewhere.  If the LED won't even flash, or the reset won't latch in, you have one of two problems:

• your GFCI is defective, or

   

• you have no power on the input side of the outlet, so then you look for power source to the GFCI problems (open breaker upstream, etc.).

[/list]


See:
http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=20580.msg150554#msg150554

Good luck.  Glad you are home safely.  On to the next adventure!
Neal

Neal..that reminds me of the GFI in our bathroom,last year it stopped working and I replaced it while on the road. What was/is very confusing the ground wires are not hooked to this receptacle,looks to be factory original..it is pass thru receptacle.
Should the grounds be hooked up.???

Dani...did not mean to hi-jack your thread

Hans

No worries Hans, it's all open to "whatever" comments need be made.... :)  Neal, thanks so much for this, now I know there's a 'plain' and a 'fancy' GFI outlet & will definitely go for the 'fancy'!  The coach is almost 18 and she sat for 8 years before I got her a year ago so I'm sure you're right about the GFI being ancient, am gonna start there and work down the list from there.

Appreciate all the great replies!  What an amazing bunch.... :-*

Hans, I can't recall ever seeing a GFCI outlet that wasn't 3-wire standard, FT or otherwise.
Sometimes the configuration can be difficult to see and I always just follow the packaging directions, rather than trying to understand the configuration.
See the typical wiring in the attached drawing.  Yes, the grounds need to have integrity from the supply panel to the final outlet in the string and I think that the packaging also calls for making the ground connection within each outlet box frame.  Of course, if the outlet box frame is not grounded to the coach frame, then it doesn't matter, which would be my guess in your case.
We have a lot of GFCI failures in SW Florida.  I think that it is because the Florida water table is so shallow and there are so many lightning strikes during the wet season, but I don't know for sure.  I usually have to replace several each year in the coach house and for the exterior outlets each year.  They don't fail in the winter months, just during the wet (June to Sept) season when the daily lightning storms are so active.
Not sure why yours would be wired differently though, Hans, except for my guess above.
Neal